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Discussion: Survey Time:

Posted Discussion
July 27, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Survey Time:
Since many discussions on this board seem to revolve around the bat and ball issue let's take a survey and see how players who come on here feel.
QUESTION: If all of Senior Softball decided to lower the bat & ball standard to current USSSA specs would you still play senior softball?
ANSWERS:
A)Yes
B)Yes, but with reservations
C)No, but could be talked into playing at a future time
D)No
Feel free to provide any commentary explaining the answer you give. Tell us what you think!!
My answer is: A simply because I love to play the game

***This is just a fun poll strictly for entertainment purposes. It is not intended to promote any agenda or undermine anyone associated with Senior Softball or players who make up Senior Softball.
July 27, 2011
perly
88 posts
stick8

Yes, I'd play with USSSA bats/balls.

Played last weekends NSA Eastern Tournament with this equipment and it was fine.

My preference is current bat/ball combo but it the majority voted to hit wood bats I'd still play.
July 27, 2011
GSWP001
Men's 60
73 posts
yes I would. I do like the combo now but the comraderie and the game itself would be enough. Am to old to be macho anymore. lol
July 27, 2011
hitman
Men's 65
298 posts
Stick,

Yes I'd play with the combo and the USSSA ball is 40/325 and you can tell when someone hits it with a cheater stick.

Perly,
The NSA ball was 44/400 and the bats for NSA/USSSA are all the same. I don't know of any that differ or are banned in one assoc and not the other.

My preference also is the current bat/ball combo but if the majority voted to hit wood bats I'd still play.

I despise the 52/275 as you might as well hit a rubber bouncy ball or an old pair of socks.

Perly,
Did you guys win Sunday?
I think we could have hung around a little longer provided we would have had at least 10 players. it really took a toll in the second game against Dixie as the outfielders had no legs left.

The Hitman
July 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
A
July 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Pricer, thanks for the "contribution". LOL
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I will NOT support a lower standard than what exists today
in SPA, NCSSA, LVSSSA and SSUSA.
There's no reason any of us have but for the self interest of others.
Bat/ball combo MUST be satisfying enough
to support and sustain enjoyable interest in our game.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
There's no reason any of us have "to".
Oops
July 27, 2011
GaCMan
86 posts
YES I would play with this combo USSSA/44/300 balls. Would rather have this combo than senior bats and 52/275 balls. I also still like the present senior combo. As far as players altering the bats there will always be cheaters in any game, CALL THEM OUT WHEN YOU SEE THEM DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO PLAY OUR GAME!!!!!
July 27, 2011
perly
88 posts
hitman

Yes, we won Sunday. Played OG's from Louisville a very close 20-18 game in the finals.

Congtrats to you guys on winning the 60's division.

GaCMan, Joey I've never hit the 52/275 ball have you? Some say it's ok and others say it's a sock. Like you, I'd take the U-Trip combo over senior bats and the 52 ball if the ball is indeed a "sock."
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
yes, i would play,in fact our team is going to one of the usssa worlds(as they have a multitude of them on their website) for seniors in mesquite,tx in august.

i also would play with any equipment deemed by any assoc,as i do that now,playing ASA,and USSSA,NSA, along with senior assoc's.

glad to see most of us on here have answered it the way stick ask us to,except the usual culprit.


hitman you don't want to hit the 40 ball if you despise hitting socks,unless it is under 75 degrees out and been that way for a month,any heat on that ball will make it worse than a trump stote that has been in the heat.........
July 27, 2011
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
Yes, I woild still play this wonderful game. Current bat and ball combos are good, but usssa bats and balls are hot as well.
July 27, 2011
Airbosn
Men's 65
319 posts
Yes, I would play with any combination of bats/balls. However, My preference is with current senior bat/ball combo. BTW, in Pensacola we put on 3 tournaments a year, 1 qualifer, Women's Spring National and Men's Winter National and from conversation with teammembers the popular choice is senior bats and FIREBALLS.
July 27, 2011
Airbosn
Men's 65
319 posts
Forgot to add....Even our local senior leagues (ages 50 to mid 80) voted for senior bats and FIREBALLS.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
There's no fundamental difference between a good and well broken in USSA standard bat
and a senior bat,
The hottest bat I ever swung with was a 27 oz original Freak
that got hot well after 1000 swings.
And that would be USSSA approved bat,
there'll still around today
and Miken still makes them.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The movement to kill senior bats is political and about money
in trying to beat/displace others in the Market Place.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
So far in the survey
and great idea, Stick,
almost all have said they prefer to hit/play with today's standard.
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
to me it looks like they would play regardless of the equipment used,not just your preference, these are men who will play,not go and cry b/c a certain bat and ball is taken away from them.....so twist it any way you want,it is your fantasy.
July 27, 2011
AndyA25
16 posts
A. would play if USSSA was the standard. I currently play in 4 leagues. One uses USSSA bats and 44/375 balls. One uses single wall bats and 44/375 balls. Another uses USSSA bats and 52/275 balls. Fall league uses ASA bats and 44/375 balls. Of course in tournaments use the current standards. I enjoy playing in all the leagues.

July 27, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
So far in the survey it looks like 9 would play with USSSA specs and 1 would not. Einstein I suspect most all senior players like and prefer todays senior bat-ball standards, I can't imagine any who wouldn't. But that wasn't the question. It was if players would still play senior softball should those standards be changed to that of USSSA.
July 27, 2011
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
388 posts
"D" mush ball = no fun regardless of bat
July 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Stick, I'm not sure if the standards went back to single wall you would see much of a change in enrollment. But if anyone thinks that the movement we're seeing in youth, high school and the NCAA will not be effecting the bats in the future, your kidding yourself. It's not cost effective for factories to produce bats that molds and materials need to be changed frequently.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Stick.
They say that but when you have to play with unsatisfying equipment
you will not be satisfied and move and find ways not to play/invest.
Associations need players to INVEST in away tournaments
not just show up for a nightly get together
and this has and will only come when satisfaction is a GUARANTEE.
That's exactly what's behind the year over year growth and satisfaction
we experience at home with our NorCal NCSSA.
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
well good stay with the podunk cal assoc,don't bother to leave your local area,the rest of us will survive....you have different age groups playing each other and such,i know i have played in podunk,cal.got to play the same teams over and over again,thats a lot of fun........



pricer usssa is already getting ready to drop the hammer,ASA went and did a live bat test this past spring with the 52 and the 44 balls(using both usssa and asa bats),looking at batted ball speed.don't tell me the ins companies are not looking also,since they are the ones paying for the doctors bills.yep they just don't understand the hammer is ready to be dropped........
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Dave.
Robert has disrespected the NorCal association of NCSSA
with over 2000 rostered membership repeatedly on this website
which you moderate.
We have supported you and would continue on into the future
and I for one, do not want to believe that his comments
in any way reflect YOUR views, standards and policies
regarding us.

July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The SSUSA standard on disparaging comments
is clear and would apply to a whole association of individuals as in this case
one would think.
July 27, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Probably not Fish. The old single wall bats with 47 core balls was a great game. The hr hitters hit their hr's and the base hitters were base hitters. It was a true measure of your ability. The sad thing is today the shaved and altered bats that are prevalent certainly don't provide that true measure. Plus you have far too many players playing lower level and really not looking to move up. Back in the day I chomped at the bit to play the upper level teams like those Superior Sports teams you were on, Jimmy's, Bunca, etc. Ironically Tony D and I were having this same discussion just a couple weeks ago. What I gather from him is USSSA is seeking to go back to a game similar to the 47 core ball single wall bat type with the soon to be released tamper proof bats. I don't know about NSA or ASA but future USSSA should be interesting.
July 27, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Joe you sound like the little kid who runs to teacher when he can't take what he dishes out. Sorry joey 30. bucks to play in a tournament is a podunk tournament
July 27, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe, while 2000 is a nice size, NCSSA hardly makes a dent in the overall picture of 1.5 million players worldwide dont you think?
I find it very commendable how you defend your NorCal association, I would probably do the same for SCSSA if it were verbally attacked.
I'm very sure everyone who plays in their local association is proud of that association and will defend it accordingly. Part of the problem as I see it is you name drop NCSSA with the real big boys all too frequently, those being SSUSA, ASA, and Spa. While NCSSA is a great "NorCal" organization it hardly represents the entire country or any of the other associations.
I know you and know you wont give up the fight, but as SS once told you, sometimes you have to back off for awhile. This may be the time.
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
ok garyc i have to call you out,since you didn't answer the survey,would you play or not.i have to be fair about this now........
July 27, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Sorry Stick,

Yes I will play with whatever is legal.
July 27, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Einstein I would think that's more of a decision players would make individually. I completely understand when you say satisfaction should be a guarantee. Speaking for me the satisfaction is sweating it out on the diamond on a warm, sunny Saturday or Sunday battling it out & competing with the other teams, irregardless whether we're swinging usssa bats or senior bats.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, E.
John.
How're you feeling?

SSUSA has a responsibility to establish
and enforce it's standards in this regard.
Too many people have been disrespected
to let it go.
It's obvious who's being aggressive
and who needs to be checked.
And the record shows it, clearly.

NCSSA is special, E.
Run by great players/men who love/respect softball and one another.
You bet I'm proud of all we've done
and accomplished together.
We've won more than our share of championships
along the way with the likes of:

California Rebels,
Old A's
MTCs
OMEN
Redwood City Reds
Old Dawgs
JU
ODB
Barons
East Bay Oldies
Mack 2
Longhorns/5 Spot
KellySports
Blue Jays
Seals
NorCal Merchants
Stixx
and many others.

SSUSA needs to step up
for all the right reasons
against such classless and ignorant,
REPEATED comments by members of this,
their message board
or be judged and held accountable
for not doing so.





July 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Wow! you've got to be kidding me!!!!!
July 27, 2011
spoonplugger
Men's 60
57 posts


D

I can play USSSA , without all the travel
and expenses .
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
pricer the only reason that podunk exists is b/c ssusa doesn't want to throw tourneys every weekend,they prefer to throw ones that mean something.
July 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
I started playing with wood bats and soft softballs, played over hundred games and up to nearly 200 games a year with all kinds of equipment, soft balls, hard balls, low tech bats, hi tech bats, and whatever rules they put out there. Do you really think I'd quit if they changed the equipment again??? Don't be silly. Officially, I'll still play.
July 27, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Mad dog your right I didn't answer
"I PLAY BECAUSE I LOVE THE GAME" and would play with wood bats if that's what everybody wanted.I feel that some people play for there ego not because there real ballplayers.See how far I can hit the ball. I don't need to be a good hitter I have my super bat and can hit the ball a mile.
Before some of you guys jump on me I don't think all you guys that don't think like I do are like that just the ones that are psycho over lively bats/balls are a must for our game to be fun.
July 28, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Yes, of course I would play ... IAATG (It's all about the game)
July 28, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
By my count I thus far have 13 that would play with usssa specs and 3 that wouldn't.
Just so everyone knows there is no right or wrong answer as we all have our preferences of what we like or don't like.
July 28, 2011
birdie
Men's 60
676 posts
My answer is A. I have played ASA because that is where we played. Was not as much fun as the senior bats but I stilled played. I voted not to go back but was out numbered. We play with ASA bats in the league and I think 44/375 balls. We try to use the Advance thunders when we can find them. Thanks Harry
July 28, 2011
TGIII
Men's 60
89 posts
A....I enjoy playing softball
July 28, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
259 posts
A. would love to play on a level playing field again.
July 28, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
B I enjoy playing with the high performing bats and balls. I would continue to play with the USSSA standards. There are tournaments for everyone. There are the tournaments which allow the "hot" balls and bats and those like the ASA which use lesser bats and balls. I think the % of seniors who play in these different types of tournaments reflect their preference of equipment.

The characterless hypocrites who continue to bash others for their choice of bats and then admit to using the same bats should have asterisks next to their posts. Your not very honest fellas.
July 28, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
I'd play for sure.

Einstein please explain: I do not understand this statement. "The movement to kill senior bats is political and about money".

Not throwing stones here: I thought that SBs was all about money. The manufacturers are loving it: "No warranty". If we kill the SBs, the players would "Save" money. I know guys that have already spent $1500 for bats this season alone, not counting last year.

I positively cannot afford SBs. I have 2 that I have had since 07'; stock, nothing done to them. Hate to have to buy another. Of course, I do not play league ball.

Tater50
You cannot deceive the "Man in the Mirror"
July 28, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
Just another thought that others have offered:
Don't you think that the insurance companies are going to "dictate" what we swing in the future? SBs will be so hot, injuries will cause ALL assocs. to revert back to the USSSA Standard?

Your thoughts.

Tater50
You cannot deceive the "Man in the Mirror"
July 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
hombre hate to burst your bubble,but the ASA ball is the same spec one we hit,44-375.

tater,no they(ins companies) won't dictate what we use by telling us,they'll just jack the rates up for anything that is hot and the assoc will do it.also you are right about the mfg'ers not caring one bit what we use,as long as we are buying from them.
July 28, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
MD my error. Burst what bubble?
July 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
just on the ASA ball being less than our senior ball,that bubble.......
July 28, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Tatar.
When DeMarini first came into the scene with the double wall
powerful lobbyists from other bat companies put pressure on associations to ban
his bat.
As I heard it, he beat them back in court.
Similarly when Miken hit the market with the ULTRA the same kind of leap took place
in technology and within two months the Grey Ultra was banned.
For the longest time we could use Combats but not Ultra's in Big League Dream Parks.
What could that be about?
Big money and competition pushing/driving the bat/ball market,
always has and always will.
They're at the bottom of all the movements that take place.
There's money people driving, lobbying, trying to change regs, standards
to make their product, the one we have/want to buy
in every market including ours.
July 29, 2011
brookery01
4 posts
I enjoyed the NSA tournament last weekend but I have to say I would hate to give up my "senior" bats. I simply have more confidence in them.
July 29, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
brookery01-great point. I have put this out there before, but it still bears thinking about. If you really think you are a better hitter than you were when you were younger, put away your composite and get out the old Steeles bat and hit with it for a month-in games, in practice, only with that bat. ( I know the balls are softer, but you will get the idea) After a month, and probably less you will realize how spoiled we are with most of the bat being a sweet spot, with the pop provided by the bat and not so much by your swing, and the confidence factor of what I call 'free swinging' which is the feel that you just know you're going to crush it every time.
July 29, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Webbie.
It's the bat/ball combo that's effective.
Not one or the other.
We were fine with blue dots, super blue dots and single wall bats.
We've ALWAYS wanted and needed a lively bat ball combo
to enjoy our game.
Do you dispute this, Web?

Now, lobbyists and bag men for corporate warfare
are trying to kill us and our game by driving the combo
WAY too low and with a ball that kicks up and off a hard surface
like a brand new tennis ball
using "safety" and the "purity of the game" to herd us into a corner.

Our game's always been dangerous.
So is baseball and football and basketball
or any other game including whiffle ball.
Assumed risk.


July 29, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Joe
"BAG MAN" They say imitation is the greatest form of flattery if you need anymore terms just let me know
Gary C
July 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
garyc we are bag men,then i want to know where my money is,i'm getting tired of all this work and not seeing my money,sure do wish this dreamer here would tell us who is behind all of this so i can go collect,papa needs a new bat.......
July 29, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Good Grief, Joe-I have heard a lot of guys, including you on a thread that mysteriously vanished, that they think they are a better hitter than they were when they were younger. I just challenged those who think that to go back to the older equipment for a period of time and really test themselves. I think a lot of guys would be surprised. And you even made that into the lively combo-can we say TUNNEL VISION?????
You know how I feel about the combo issue.
July 29, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Stick8-apologize for getting off issue on the thread.
July 29, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
No big deal Webbie. These threads often morph into other subjects.
July 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
stick i need to also,sorry...........

webbie thanks for grounding us some,as we can sure use it.




again A.....
July 29, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
No big deal mad dog.
July 31, 2011
ChiPrimeMarty
Men's 55
65 posts
YES, I'd play with any combination, but I think U-trip bats (or ASA) are better for our game than juiced-up Senior bats.
July 31, 2011
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Stick8, JBTexas, & ChiPrimeMarty,

I agree with all 3 of your reasons. Also, it would make all of DD's recent discussions more workable and acceptible by many more.

Will this really happen? You just never know.

Just My Opinion,

Andy Smith
Aug. 1, 2011
Fastsam
Men's 50
54 posts
No, If we were to go to dumb down balls or bats in senior softball, I'd play with real balls and bats in the great state of California. NCSSA is for those players who want top competiton every other week.
Aug. 1, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
259 posts
Well guys it's not just E,maybe it's in the water in NoCal, no one wants dumb down balls and bats, just that we use the same bats everyone uses. Senior shouldn't have to need special bats. Give the fielders a chance by taking away the super edge that we have given these great hitters who shouldn't need it in the first place.
Aug. 1, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It's the ball that's key JB.
Any bat with a good ball is a good combo
for us but the 52 x 275 ball favors TD's,
bat manufacturers
and some ball manufacturers
AT THE EXPENSE of the fundamental enjoyment
and experience of the players.
Sad and true.

Lively bats and balls are a must
and we ALL know it in our hearts.
Aug. 1, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Repeat your comments JB. That's a start. No need for special bats for seniors. I don't think anyone was listening or attempting to listen.
Aug. 1, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
how the hell does the 52 ball favor any bat mfg'er,you really are pulling crap out of some place,and WE know were.bat mfg'ers want us to be hitting 47 cor and 525 comp or more,that way more bats will be broken.please get some facts before you just post idiotic info on here.
Aug. 1, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Attacking with nothing
to back up your bark, as usual, Robert.
You don't have any credibility left to lose
so I guess you can justify anything that
happens to slide out of your mouth.

That was you and your buddy Jeff
instigating on the back of my
interested/interesting comment to JB.
For the record one and all.
Take a look and who's instigating
and it isn't me.

Now, in self defense, Jeff.
You're bias is a matter of record
as is your support of and from both Sad dog
and his malignant nobody and friend, Gary C.
The three stooges of the web site.
Slow, Gary and Curly Jeff.
Woop woop woop woop.

And you, Robert are defenseless
and too easy a mark to take down anymore.
You are classless and ignorant without parallel
on this site and have demonstrated it
over and over and over again
disrespecting truly great human beings
and whole groups of players/people
you never met, repeatedly,
all the while being the biggest proponent
of the 52 x 275 ball that no likes or wants
but you.
You can be seen as nothing but garbage
and you did to yourself.

If SSUSA were to enforce it's standards
for disparaging instigators
none of what I have said would be necessary
or understandable for the self defense
it truly is.

I won't back down from your insensitive
and characterless attacks.
Not here, not now or ever.

Aug. 1, 2011
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
To get back to the point of the thread, I vote A.

I played with joy for 50 years before the composite bat made its appearance, and I would continue to play with joy. And yes, the Blue Dot and Super Blue Dot were around for maybe 5 of those years before both were banned locally by Rec Departments as being too hot for fielders. I prefer the more balanced game of the past, even though I do swing an Ultra II.
Aug. 1, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
omar yes WE have had fun playing since the 60's(for me).i can't remember never having fun playing ball.doesn't matter what the equipment was or will be in the future,i will continue to have fun.
i really feel sorry for these people who say they can't have fun playing ball unless they have the hottest equipment around to play with.their ego's must be so fragile,hate to see what happens to them when the hammer comes down from the assoc's.


again i say A for myself.
Aug. 2, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
259 posts
no senior bats. 44 core 375 balls, this we all should be able to live with. Let's play softball. Assoc's won't change anything we have too.
Aug. 2, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
It's not a place to test our writing skills or for use as long diatribes. I love that line! Also I won't get into the name calling game like you do. But I will say you are a classless, non-professional, pompous, individual with absolutely no integrity. I don't and have never sought or ask for any support on here. You have asked for everyone support. For someone who is constantly looking to have folks removed or disciplined on this sight for name-calling or pisses in your cheerios, you sure do push the envelope yourself.
Aug. 2, 2011
thebull
Men's 50
59 posts
I would continue to play Softball with whatever equipment was allowed, but would not enjoy it as much as I do now with our current bat/ball combo. Iíve played in Wood Bat Tournaments which were fun but they were played on @280í fences which kept the long ball a factor. I would not play wood bat ball on 300í fences, boring. I also would have no problem going to a USSSA Bat, I can hit nearly as many HRís with a USSSA just not as far,but Iím opposed to any change to the USSSA Bat until a solution can be found to cheater bats. Cheater Bats are ruining Softball and will ruin Senior Ball if we make that change now. Iím also strongly opposed to the 52/275 Ball. Iíve taken hundreds of hits with them and they are junk, they hit like socks and are very bouncy. Yes, you can hit them out with the right pitch, the right trajectory and just the right backspin. Iíll bet I could hit a Sock out if it was worn long enough and rolled up real tight but I donít think Iíll try it. They are promoted as being safer but in my opinion there will be more injuries caused by bad bounces, especially on the poor fields that are typical in my area. If SSUSA adopted this Ball I will continue to play but I would not spend my money to travel to Tournaments for a watered down version of Softball.
theBull
Aug. 2, 2011
MaverickAH
59 posts
I vote A.

A couple of comments:

1. Even USSSA has finally realized the errors in their bat testing procedures & have taken steps to correct them. That's why, starting in 2013, they are adding an additional procedure to their test & adding additional physical requirements for their bats (tamper-proof end caps). At that point, any bat that does not contain the new stamp they're creating will be banned. (Unless they decide to do something else between now & then!)

2. Enjoyment of the game should come from comraderie & competition. Saying that it should come from the equipment is a sad statement & a poor reflection on the abilities of anyone who believes this IMHO.
Aug. 2, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Pricer.
For your all you lip service to facts and logic
you are just a little man behind a curtain
with your own axes to grind
who needs to think he's better than someone else.

Bull.
Right on about what real players think, feel and want
and the Associations better be listening.

And to think they could have asked or polled us
anytime to find out what we really think and want.
Why would someone or some Association with their own agenda
want to poll us about anything.

Cheating has always been a problem and has grown
out of proportion
because of the lack enforcement by the Associations
some of whom think it's better not to take/make a stand
about anything till they're forced to.






Aug. 2, 2011
gary c
411 posts
The real players say it's not the equipment it's the game.
.If you don't want change but you would play no matter what I respect your opinion but I disagree.
The ego maniacs say I must hit ball far and can't play without hot bats and balls.
GROW UP! You would rather turn the game into a carnival with screens other gimmicks
than use common sense and make the game safer. If one of your teammates gets hurt badly
because a super ball explodes off one your super bats that's on YOU.
Aug. 2, 2011
perly
88 posts
garyc, who are these "real players" you're talking about. Do you mean only the guys that agree with you and and want the 52 core ball? If those are the real players they seem to be the minority on this board.

I personally know Patty Mac, Lang, GaCMan, Tater50, the hitman and many others who do not want to go to the 52 ball. These guys are not only real men but real good softball players. They'd all probably agree to go to USSSA/NSA bats and a decent ball but why go to a sock? To even the field for lesser players. Also, please don't use safety as a reason for the 52 ball without some REAL facts to back it up. Players were gettting drilled 30 years ago with metal bats and good reflexes.

Other than pitchers and some infielders wearing protective gear what "carnival" are you talking about?

Please answer this question: Do you swing a Senior Bat when you play league or tournaments?
Aug. 2, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
bull the injuries that happen with a 52 ball will be way less serious compare to the 44 ball(bruise with the 52,compared to broken bones with the 44),it has been proven in studies.ask you boy whiney,as both he and i have been sent the info about it by email,but he refuses to acknowledged it.he can't deal with facts.

maverick you are so right,usssa has gotten sick of it and are about to put the hammer down.it won't be to soon there after that the other assoc's will follow suit........

gary they don't care about their fellow softballer,its their ego is all they care about.
Aug. 2, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Look at this, guys.
Gary C actually making points without
being disgusting and vile
showing us where he and these few others
have REALLY been coming from
all along.
I've said it was a movement to displace
our equipment and our game,
out of self interest and ignorance of us
and who we truly are, from the jump,
didn't I.

Who the heck is USSSA, anyway.
We don't play it around here and wouldn't.
We're not afraid to stand up for ourselves
and our game in NCSSA,
the best association of fine senior players
and real men/competitors in the country.
Look at the list of National Champions
over the last 15 years and look where
they predominantly come from
and you'll see over and over again:

Old A's
Rebels
MTC
OMEN
ODB
NorCal Merchants
Old DAWGS
Redwood City Reds
Barons
Blue Jays
Seals
Stixx
KellySports
5 Spot
Longhorns
No Dice
East Bay Oldies
Roll with 2
JU
and many others.

We play with lively bats and balls
because that's the way our game was always
meant to be played.
We're terrific players, men and women
and have grown tired of those
who would criminalize and demonize us
out of their own self interest
and/or
sheer ignorance and lack of care
and who we are and what we think.


Aug. 2, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
It's not a place to test our writing skills or for use as long diatribes. There you go again, name calling. Not trying hide and never will. I state what I don't care for without strings attached or looking for someone to agree me. I live and play with my values & morals. Never said I was better than anyone else at anytime or in any thread. "Cheating has always been a problem and has grown out of proportion
Because of the lack enforcement by the Associations
some of whom think it's better not to take/make a stand
about anything till they're forced to" I will say that is the biggest crock of crap I've seen you post. IT'S THE PLAYERS THAT NEED TO POLICE THEMSELVES AND THEIR TEAMATES. We're over 50 years old. What is it that would make someone want to cheat for when we already have cheater bats already being made us? Joe, you ask around and ask anyone who has come across me as player. I don't hold anything back and I'm honest to fault. My honest comments don't endear me to some. But you keep drinking kool aid and try to convince yourself that everyone else is the bad guy. Sticks & stones will....well you know where I was going.
Aug. 2, 2011
gary c
411 posts
The real players say it's not the equipment it's the game.
.If you don't want change but you would play no matter what I respect your opinion but I disagree.

The ego maniacs say I must hit ball far and can't play without hot bats and balls.
GROW UP! You would rather turn the game into a carnival with screens other gimmicks
than use common sense and make the game safer. If one of your teammates gets hurt badly
because a super ball explodes off one your super bats that's on YOU.

Perly READ THE POST
guys who would play no matter what equipment is used are real players
A screen in the middle of the diamond is a carnival how about if you hit the screen you get to throw a ball at a dunk tank and if you hit the target you dunk you or your buddy Joey Joe.
Yes I do swing a Ultra 2 in tournaments but have more fun in leagues that are single wall leagues
because it is much closer to the real game BASEBALL. When you get a hit you get the hit not the bat
Aug. 2, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Do speeders on a highway
police themselves?
Do U-trip pitchers police themselves
when coming into ASA style pitching/conduct?
When real danger is involved
someone needs to take charge to make sure
innocent people don't get hurt.
The associations have been ducking their responsibility and leaves one only to ask why.

I know lots of guys like you who only feel better
when they think they're better than someone else.
The subtly and not so subtly have to put
someone else down to prop themselves up.
You're way more obvious than you think.
Aug. 2, 2011
perly
88 posts
So if you're forced by SSUSA/SPA/et al to hit a dumbed down ball even though you would rather hit a good bat/ball combo you're a "real player." In that case almost everyone is a real player because we all want to play and very few would really quit because of the ball.

You say "A screen in the middle of the diamond is a carnival how about if you hit the screen you get to throw a ball at a dunk tank and if you hit the target you dunk you or your buddy Joey Joe." Who uses a screen, the SSUSA, NSA or SPA, where I usually play don't have screens? Some leagues, which have many ages and player levels may use a screen. No matter what ball you hit a screen is a good idea for those leagues.

By the way we are playing slowpitch softball not baseball. To similar games but toally different in many aspects. If you want to play baseball go find a baseball league.

Finally, you and your 52 core ball advocates are the vast minority until the SSUSA, SPA, FHC, NSA, NorCal and other organizations go to the sock.
Aug. 2, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Safer?
Did we ask to make the game
we've been playing all our lives, safer?
Why the change in equipment, NOW?

We're being invaded by outside interest
who want/need to tell US
how OUR game is and should be played
for their profit and ends.
They often don't identify themselves to us,
try to manipulate us and our thinking,
don't play with or love us
and our game and
it SCREAMS and TEEMS
out of them and their behavior
all the time.
Aug. 2, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Joe, with all due respect you are kidding, right?

The latest 'change in equipment' was made when seniors started being allowed to use bats that NO one else can. Having special bats is NOT the game 'we've been playing all our lives'.
Aug. 2, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
At this point it looks as if more players would continue to play senior softball if usssa bats and balls were the specs across the board. There have been some pretty passionate views about this issue from all who have commented. One thing I've learned from this (and I'm forever on the learning curve) is most senior players have a love affair for playing the game, be it with "lively bats and balls forever" (props to Einstein lol) or with usssa specs. Editorializing here for a moment. While the talent is definitely there, I just don't see the same overall passion in todays men's game as the senior game has. Reasons may vary and perhaps it's a generational thing but does anyone else feel the same way I do?
Aug. 2, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Perly
Your SIDEKICK JOEY THE JESTER has said a screen is a good idea for safety. Hitting the ball out is the game you like in the real game your talents are more important then the equipment.
Jester you sound paranoid evil forces are trying to ruin our game because they don't identify themselves.
why is it people who agree with you aren't evil and have no guts when they don't ID themselves? HYPOCRITE
Aug. 2, 2011
thebull
Men's 50
59 posts
Hey stick8, I thought your ďSurvey TimeĒ was a great Topic and was interested to see the responses .You wrote ďFeel free to provide any commentary explaining the answer you give. Tell us what you think!!
I gave my Opinion, said what I thought . Iíve always been Leary when someone says ď Iíd like your honest opinionĒ, what they really mean is I want your Honest Opinion only if it agrees with my Opinion. When I see disparaging comments in response like Iíve seen on this Thread it seems clear that some Posters arenít the least bit interested in what others have to say and will attack anyone with a different opinion. Come on, who on this Site is not ďa real PlayerĒ, what are they, synthetic Players? And why call someone who uses a Senior Bat an ďEgo ManiacĒ, it rare to see someone not use a SB. Is everyone in Senior Ball an Ego Maniac, apparently so.
theBull
Aug. 2, 2011
gary c
411 posts
BULLS_ _ T YOU FORGOT THE LAST FOUR LETTERS
WHY DO I KNOW YOU ARE A MINION OF JOEY THE JESTER
Aug. 2, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Good points Bull. I guess some of the more passionate posts one reads on here are a result of those in this community of posters who are strongly divided on the topic. It almost seems like they want to get "one up" the other or see who gets the last word in. Since there are no true right or worng answers I'm not certain what that accomplishes. I can understand & fully expect players to have different views on topics which I feel we can all learn from. Your right, everyone who plays senior softball is a real player regardless of whatever equipment we use.
Aug. 2, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Bull.
You're making too much sense for these guys.
They're on a mission and they'll crap on themselves and anyone/anything
en route to promoting that 52 core sock.
Now why would anyone be promoting any piece of equipment at the expense of anything else
rational or otherwise?
Can you say MONEY?
Anyone who's ever played softball gets
how important a good bat/ball combo is.
Anything else is pure balderdash
and guys shilling and hawking for their patron.

The game isn't safe enough?
Since when?
It's always been a risk to play with hard bats
and balls since we were babies.
Senior bats aren't any better than very well broken in USSSA bats which kills the argument
dead that we need to get rid of senior bats.

None of their arguments hold up against
any direct questioning.
Not one.
Yet everything they say just happens to lead
to "we have to dumb down our game
and use a more restricted flight ball".
What a giant crock of crap.

Everyone is cheating.
No, they're not.
Can't stop the cheaters.
Yes, we can.
We are fundamentally cheaters and not sportsman.
Horse crap.

A small group who are well invested
in the new equipment they want us to use
are pushing the crap out of trying to convince us that restricting the ball/bat combo
and our game is actually better for us
and will return us to a purer form of ourselves
and our game.
What Rubbish.
Nazis use the same argument all the time.




Aug. 2, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
It's not a place to test our writing skills or for use as long diatribes.
Aug. 2, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
bull who was attacking you,none that i seen.you asked a question about the 52 ball,i answered it.if you don't like the answer nothing i can do for you then.the facts are out there that the 52 ball is way less dangerous than a 44,scientific studies have been done,i'm not making up stuff like your boy joey does,or even attempt to say i speak for the majority,but when i put out the facts i get called all kinds of names by this guy who thinks he knows all,but doesn't have a clue.

oh now we are nazi's,staff i think you should do your job and get rid of this despicable character,as he seems it is ok to beseech a persons character at will.
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