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Discussion: 52 Core Ball

Posted Discussion
Aug. 18, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
52 Core Ball
1st off, this is just a straight forward question and I am not looking for a debate as to why this ball is the best/worst thing that ever happened to senior softball. I personally dislike the ones that I have hit this year.

We are playing in an NSA tournament in a few weeks. The only reason we are playing in it is because it is local. We have played in a couple of others that have been local to Austin, TX this summer and the ball we bought from the tournament director was not good.

With that said, what is the "best" 52 core ball and where can you buy them on line? We'd like to try another option at this tournament to see if a different brand is better than we have experienced in the past.

thanks,
Murray
Aug. 18, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
i like the AD starr ball,personally.i am getting some 52 evil's in a day or so(in transient)as i'm trying to test some different ones for tator.which mfg'er ball did you hit down there,we had the AD starr one for us and it was going good.i did see some regular trumps(not the evil made trumps).i'll let ya know which ones i like the best.
Aug. 18, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
I think we used the AD starr.
Aug. 18, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
just got my ASA evils in today,gonna get some of those we hit in Georgetown next weekend from our coach(those are the NSA versions),have some of the usssa worth hot dots also,so we'll see,also have some ASA trump stotes we use in the one kids league i play in.gonna do a bat and ball comparison,off a tee.
Aug. 18, 2011
4x4
Men's 65
597 posts
If you are going to do a fair one on one test I would suggest you not hit off a tee........

Why - you already know - off a tee you can hit the ball anywhere you want on the ball with a ball sitting static. You can put the seams in a certain position that would insure a better flight.
Stuff most of us already know. You can make a ton of mistakes mechanically off a tee and still come up with a decent result with a technically poor swing.

Knowing the results you already want the findings would be skewed.

The ball should be struck in the same manner it usually would be off of BP PITCHING to get a true result from a parties taking place with no altering of swings to favor any particular ball. Hit the ball live..........

Aug. 18, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
the tee is the best way as you get rid of a lot of variables.pitches not in zones,wind blowing pitches and etc.i'm testing the bats along with the balls for performance,so the easiest way is off a tee.i will set the ball the same way each time on the tee,so there is no variance there.i'm gonna test a couple of different type bats also(all legal for play ones)from metal to composite.

first off if you think i wouldn't do it fair,then you really don't know me then, oh well get over it,and if you think that way 4x4 do your own test.i personally have nothing to gain by doing this,was just ask if i could,since i had the balls to do it with.

i do tee work all the time,and test my bats that way and also break them in with tee work.

Aug. 18, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
4x4 is 100 per cent right.
It's with real pitching that it counts and then add a pitcher who knows
that you have to under cut it to hit it well
and you will be pitched very short and very deep
to keep the hitter from being able to cut under it.

I hit the best version yet of the 52 x 275 ball,
the Micro Cell Version and it stinks .
You hit it hard it feels and goes no where.
You undercut it it floats through the air.
It never feels like you hit anything when you hit it.
No feel or sense of impact.

These balls are counter intuitive to a natural swing,
will kick like brand new tennis balls off anything hard
and will create more tension driving down the overall satisfaction
we, the players get, from playing our game.

The bat/ball combo as we all should know must be hot enough
to sustain the interest and joy in playing softball
and the 52 ball I have hit just doesn't cut it.

Aug. 19, 2011
tattooball
622 posts
Joe

There is no such thing as a micro-cell .52 ball. Send me your address and I will send you some of the new balls I just finished, none are better.
Aug. 19, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
thanks tattooball,kind of what i thought,no such thing........the reason i pm'ed ya on SBF,to clarify it.
Aug. 19, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
First, I'll clarify with my BP guy
which ball that is.
I might be wrong about the model.
Second, tatooball.
Sounds like a plan.
The balls can be made hotter/better all the time.
I'm open to anything that works to provide
a good enough bat/ball combo
which is essential to playing our game.
joerinaldi56@yahoo.com and
I'll hop along my address.
Aug. 19, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
thats it back peddle,and blame it on your BP partner,figures as much,just still throwing crap out regardless of authenticity and got mud in the face again.maybe you should of read what murrayw was looking for in this thread first.
Aug. 19, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Robert.
Are you coming at me, unprompted, again?
I purposely left you alone thinking we both and everyone else have had enough
vitriol but maybe not.
Don't give it out
if you can't take it.
Aug. 19, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Just found out the ball is "ROCK"
and feels like the 44 x 375 MCT balls we use
in practice as in the cover is soft
and it tends to feel light.
Aug. 19, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
just calling it like i see it.before i post some info i always go look it up first,why don't you try it.i had thought there was no mct ball as ASA wasn't allowing that ball to be used anymore b/c of the prol with testing it.but here you go saying there is,so i went to check it out before posting there wasn't,tattooball was kind enough to come over here and tell ya the facts.
like i said just telling it like it is.
Aug. 19, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Robert.
Just keep on talking and remove any doubt
about who and what you aren't.
Wow.
Aug. 19, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
tattooball, so what brand do you consider the best and where can I order a few online to try out at the tournament we are playing in a few weeks?
Aug. 19, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
murrayw where you guys playing at,what assoc type ball do you need.softball guru might be able to help ya,he lives up here in longview.
Aug. 19, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Tatooball.
Isn't the Rock an MCT version
of a 52 x 275 ball?
Wasn't it a Stote/Trumpball?
Aug. 19, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
Aug. 19, 2011
tattooball
498 posts
Joe

There is no such thing as a micro-cell .52 ball. Send me your address and I will send you some of the new balls I just finished, none are better.


what part of this post did you not read,he says there is no version of the 52 ball that is MCT.
Aug. 19, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Actually, Robert I pitched, hit and fielded
that 52x275 Rock ball I talked of eariler and it felt to the touch
just like the MTC 375 x 44 balls we were using.
It sure didn't hit or field like them
but I thought it was an MTC ball.
Aug. 19, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
I posted on this ball on the Bats-Altered Bat thread.Forgot this thread was here.
Not as bad as I'd heard, but not on my 'wish to play with it list' either.
Aug. 19, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
thanks webbie,went and read it....
Aug. 22, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
mad dog, as stated in my original post, we are playing in an NSA tournament in Georgetown in 2 weeks, mainly because it is local and we haven't played since the beginning of August.
Aug. 22, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
hey muarray is fidel running that one,we might need a tune up as the usssa tourney in mesquite fell apart.....
Aug. 22, 2011
smooth01
Men's 50
123 posts
I could be wrong , but wouldn't a good question be what is the best bat to use for these balls? I've never hit any of them.
Aug. 22, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
smooth-thebull and I are going to experiment this week with them. I have quite a selection-including Steele's bat, old 38 oz Louisville, Orange crush, Demarini doublewall so I will post it here.
Aug. 22, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
mad dog, Yes Fidel is running it. One day tournament in Georgetown September 3rd. Let me know if you need Fidel's phone number or email.
Aug. 22, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
our coach ed should have it,he was the one who threw the last 52 ball tourney i met you at right....
Aug. 22, 2011
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
I absolutely disagree with Einstein and 4x4. Testing different balls to see how they fly is perfect off of a tee. The swing is always the same and the only variable is the ball and watching how it flies will tell you the differnce in the balls. The temp of the balls is the same, the wind is the same and the bat is the same. You can change the bat and see the differences in the bat as well. With live pitching timing is part of the equation and you cannot be consistently the same like you can off of a tee.
Aug. 22, 2011
4x4
Men's 65
597 posts
Hi Jim - Pete here

One of the issues with these balls is they have to be hit differently to get a specific, desired result. Differently than any other ball we might pick up. Hitting off a tee with these it is easier to obtain the result you want precisely because you have more control over the swing and contact area of the ball - just target an area and hit it. And the results will be skewed as the same result will not consistantly be forthcoming under "game/BP" conditions.

We have a single proponent on line with a Madison Avenue zeal that has done everything short of opening his Bible and citing chapter 52 verse 275 about the second coming of softball.

These balls have different properties to them. If anything they should be matched up in a BP situation with a dozen Stotes a dozen Badens (good quality balls) and then hit in rounds of 36-48-60 by the same hitter in progression using different dozens (brands, separated out) at a time as they progress and see what the outcome is. And they should be hit by someone other than the man on the soap box.

There's a lot of ugly bullying and battering going on in this forum - up to - and including a bull rush by one party to bring these balls to the fore. It's only a matter of time before these people become banned. But, in the meantime, the information has to be of good quality.

Aug. 22, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
smooth01,in our test it really didn't matter that much,what bat i used,they all were close to each other.i had a senior reebok,27oz el,syn-2 26 oz,combat anti-virus 26oz el,combat lady virus 26 oz,demarini 375 DW 26 oz.all bats were able to hit the fence,the reebok got the ball over the fence tho,as it was the first bat i used,105 degree heat took its toll on me and my buddy as we went thru the day.we spent about 1.5 hrs hitting off the tee.

so pete you want there to be 144 swings by someone in 105 degree heat,chasing pitches all over the place and such.you really don't know a whole lot about testing stuff do you.when you test something for performance you look to get rid of all variables that would affect the product your testing.you want your product to perform and not have to depend on outside forces to mess it up.

so you really think i'm doing the bullying,but your boy is the good one.quit crying and man up and play ball.you all were the ones crying about the pitcher rule,and all a couple years back and what to do about it.guess what,i came up with a solution for it.tough you non-hitters don't like this ball and have to depend on the hot combo to feed your ego's.
oh by the way,what are you all so afraid of anyways....ya won't be able to hit a ball out of the park any more......LOL.......
Aug. 22, 2011
4x4
Men's 65
597 posts
Bob - We can carry this forward when we see each other at the Huntsman.

Matter of fact we can go out and hit together! Regardless of the thermometer.
Aug. 22, 2011
4x4
Men's 65
597 posts
Page 2

I don't recall saying anything about 144 swings or 105 degree heat. I said 3-5 dozen balls each hit by brand at 12 each. That would be only 60 per round. Pretty easy to do. I'd vote for some Evil BP balls to be one of the dozen used. Put it in a REAL situation - after all that's what you are trying to convince every one else to do with THEIR time on the field changing THEIR game and THEIR enjoyment of THEIR game that YOU want to change.

As far as the taunting (your 3rd paragraph - last post) bullying/battering/whining/then crying out for sympathy from the audience when they get spanked. I would guess that depends on how much attention one feels he needs. Over and over and over and over.

Aug. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
won't be at huntsman,sorry.

i was asked by someone to do this test this way,and i get crap for it,please.why do i need to do it your way,first off.if you would like to supply all those balls,be my guest and do so,and i'll do it your way.

add those numbers you put up and that equals 144 swings,now ya want me to do 60 per round.i took 11 balls of each 52 and 44's(all 44's were senior balls from SPA AND SSUSA)and did 2 rounds.i would hit 1 each so as not to tire myself and would get fair swings on each ball,or would you want me to hit one all the way,then the other.doing the test your way would take 3-4+ hrs to complete with at least a half hour between rounds for energy regeneration,but i guess you would rather that be the case so as not to have a straight test.hitting off a tee takes away of a pitcher throwing pitches all over the place,i don't want to be there for 75 pitches to hit 50,just not what is the way it should be done.why do companies use machines to test their balls and bats,there is no live pitching.
Aug. 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Live pitching is absolutely the key
as 4x4 stated for a variety of reasons
not least of which is the advent
of the knuckleball as the pitch de jour
up and coming in senior softball.
When there's a competing wind the knuckleball
will cause anyone trying to under cut it
all the time to either miss it completely
or pop it up weakly most of the time.
Natural eye hand coordination and reflexes
when surprised in a fraction of a second
right before striking a ball
would bring the bat to the center of the ball
to maximize the chance to hit it well or at all.
And hitting that 52 x 275 ball will punish you
rather than reward you for your efforts.
A good knuckle ball pitcher with an opposing
wind might throw a no hitter in a softball game
it would be that hard to hit it that 52 x 275
ball well.
Aug. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
a no hitter,yeah right,if a ball is doing what you say dancing and such,it is not gonna matter what ball your hitting,please......also you seem to forget,any ball hit dead center knuckles no matter what,so please learn a little physics......

secondly i don't remember tater asking you what so ever to do this test.

thirdly this was NOT a customer satisfaction test,this was an equipment test,and when you do one of those you take out as many variables as possible,what part of that do you not understand.YOU JUST WANT TO TEST THE EQUIPMENT,NOT THE HITTERS...............
Aug. 23, 2011
4x4
Men's 65
597 posts
Without discussing knuckleballs

The balls that I hit are a mixture of the Baden Fire - the Trump Stotes (SSUSA balls) - the Evil PB balls and a few Utrip balls thrown in, a couple of Rocks and some Spirits from SPA. The best in the batch for all conditions in my opinion is the Fire.

At one time I had a few of the 52 core balls in the mix - but - as we hit if the guys think there's a bad ball in the batch we throw them off into a dugout and leave them for someone that might want them. Nobody questions anybody we just get rid of the bad balls.

Guess what happened - one by one all the 52 balls got tossed.

THAT'S why it's important to have a variety with live pitching with different weather/temperature variations and people. Ideally hitting the "names" in rotation (which we didn't do as we were not looking to run a "test").

Bob - you've done your job - you must have 75-100+ posts pushing this ball. We've all seen the posts. You've brought attention to them.

I think it's time that everybody move on.
Aug. 23, 2011
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
4X4...I try not to pick a particular side, but put forth my opinion based on my knowledge/experience with that subject.

4X4, I do have to agree with you, I've used several brands of the 52/275's and 52/300's. Both in batting practice and in game situations. I did not enjoy the experience. I am a line-drive/gap hitter who on rare occaisions one hops or hits a fence. I do not undercut, but strike the ball flatly.

I do not like the performance with any bat. I actually had more sucess in a 52 core tourney using a single wall bat.

All in all I did not enjoy the experience and unless there was NO OTHER game in town may be the only way to get me back.

I'm not going for the Einstein chant but experince a kindred spirt when he describes the feel and pleasure in getting rewarded for a good swing.

Scientificaly speaking...it's fun to to hit a ball on the screws and hearing the unique sound it makes

I feel the same. I've
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