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Discussion: What do you think?

Posted Discussion
Aug. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
What do you think?
Is it the equipment that is the great equalizer, dumbing down the equipment be the equalizer? What do you think? If you get off subjet your out of the conversation. I have brain power power over you (Dinner for Schmucks)and can control you.
Aug. 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
No.
It's the wizard and the wand.
Better equipment raises the level of play
and positively effects play.
Softball is not golf.
It's a team sport and needs pace, speed and action
to sustain itself.
Lively bats and balls help create more interest, participation, motivation and gratification
to sustain interest and player investment.
Aug. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Joe, please don't go there. It's easy, it or isn't it? I don't want to use my powers, but will if I have to!!!!
Aug. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Joe, better equipment artifically raises the level of offense, and drastically lowers the level of defense.

Net gain of zero, at best.
Aug. 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Cool, Jeff.
Gary.
Both get raised.
Aug. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
How Joe? Balls over fences cannot be defensed. Balls getting through gaps quicker cannot be defensed. Pitchers looking like hockey goalies have a harder time playing defense.
Aug. 23, 2011
Omar Khayyam
1002 posts
Gary is absolutely right. I would add that equalizing offense (increased number of homers, triples, doubles) discourages the good hitter who finds his hard work and/or natural gifts are not very unique any longer; and more difficult defense discourages the good defense/weak offense player who once had value (see many major league shortstops over the decades) but now cannot compete with the ball speed. My observation is that both stop playing senior softball. Although the term is meant to be demeaning, "dumbing down" the equipment may be the wave of the future if we are to save senior softball and restore balance.
Aug. 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Can't make a slow team game dynamically slower
and keep up interest and investment and
rightly so.
Less gratification of slower game through
dumber equipment means less participation
ACROSS THE BOARD.
Only elite players or slow players will favor
dumbed down equipment.
Aug. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
This is a good thing, personal opinions without the attacks on one's preference. I'll keep score. Let's keep it to your own opinion without attacking someone else's. My opinion is defense is not nearly as important as it once was. I agree the bats are explosive and addicting to use. But I'm still not sure they're the best for the game. JMO
Aug. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Joe, this is about your personal opinion about the equipment, not about the interest or investment of the membership. So you would have less interest, investment & gratification if the game became slower? Is that what your saying?
Aug. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
the only thing it does,is make the the hitter more dynamic.guys who never hit hrs are doing so.we have lost defense and any type of strategys for offense and defense,as it is for offense,just bang away now,defense well there is none unless the ball happens to be hit straight at you,or maybe if the hitter mishits one,which is more unlikely with the mammoth sweet spot on senior bats.it really enhances a good hitters ability,a not so good now goes from a .500 hitter to .650 easily.but hey what do i know,i only started playing ball when there were only wood bats available to use.but we had fun and played a complete game back then.....
Aug. 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
mad dog makes an excellent point. Not only are the special bats much livelier, but the sweet spot is obscenely enormous.

Just no need for both, or either.
Aug. 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Jeff.
That's not what I'm saying.
There's NO DOUBT in my mind given all my research and experience
and awareness of what is taking place in and around our sport
that the great majority of players, as per the SPA survey
which many of us participated in,
favor not going less than the equipment level
we have today in senior ball.
Aug. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
I understand that Joe, but that's not the thread here. It's about you the individual and what your experience and opinion on the equipment are. In this case what the masses want don't matter. If they want to voice an opinion, let them speak now!
Aug. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
another thing pricer,is the better equipment makes the better players/teams that much better,and to me that has been the downfall for the upper div's,not as many teams,and teams dropping.it also is making the lower div's less competitive as players are now dropping down to play with no teams for them to play at their original higher level,and basically stacking teams.the lower div's look at this and say to hell with it,and go do something else.
Aug. 23, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
Pricer-great question. We play a unique game. 5 year old kids can play off a tee on small fields, the older kids get the bigger the field and their abilities adapt to that, up to adults playing softball on 300 foot fences, and baseball players on fields up to 400 foot fence, and it does not change the basic fabric of the game. If you look at softball, the great players over the years were great during lively ball/dead bat, lively ball/lively bat,and now dead ball (compared to the blue dots and t400's)/lively bat combos. The cream always rises to the top. The true equalizing factors now are the rules limiting home runs and runs per inning. This takes away some of the offensive edge better teams would have Up until now these equalizers have never been needed or imposed.No matter what the equipment, the best players will always be the best players and the best teams will remain winners. The true equalizers right now are the rules, and even if the equipment changes, I believe that fact won't change.

What's on the menu for 'schmuckdinner?'
Aug. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
really webbie the rules to me are not that great for equalizing.90% of the time the higher rated team still wins from what i see.many say the games are closer,that is only b/c the higher rated team is the home team and only needs to score 1 more run to win,if they are the visitors they go on a 15-20 run inning and then not even a close game.we have played 5 or 6 higher rated teams this year and have won 1 of those games(it was a 65 M+ team,we are 60 AAA),and only b/c they had bad luck in their open inning(they were the home team).

it only keeps the games close till the open inning,and that is only if the lower rated team hits with them,the lower rated team needs to score their 5 runs every inning as most likely the higher rated team will do so.


shmuck dinner prolly has LOBO's in it.....DOH,LOL....
Aug. 23, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
It that brain or mind power?
Aug. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
mmm both....LOL.......
Aug. 23, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
Sorry-mad dog, isn't that what I said? Equalizing would be keeping games closer. The fact is the rules keep the game closer until the open inning. Isn't that a huge equalizer? If you lessen the liveliness of the equipment, the result will just be the same. Is getting beat 40-10 any worse than being beaten 20-5? Both ways you scored 4 times what the other team scored. If you are down 20-5 and you know the equipment is not lively and there are not going to be a lot of runs scored, you are just as beat as being down 40-10 with livelier equipment.

Guess I'm confused. LOBO's? Down here that's a wolf.
Aug. 23, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
yeah,UNM ALB ARE THE LOBO'S AREN'T THEY...

to me the equalizer is artificial,at best.to me,it is just a way to justify some tourney's by a TD to get teams there,just lump them all together and give out equalizer's.
Aug. 23, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
artificial, yes, but more pronounced than equipment.
Aug. 23, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
Pricer, did I misunderstand the question? Sorry.
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