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Discussion: We're simply amazed it's come to this...

Posted Discussion
Aug. 24, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1006 posts
We're simply amazed it's come to this...
PUBLIC STATEMENT ON MESSAGE BOARD DECORUM • We're somewhat embarrassed to have to make this statement in public. (Amazingly, the two individuals to whom it is directed received an advance-look copy of the following Message Board post via e-mail on August 10th, exactly two weeks ago as a 'friendly' warning, since which time their behavior here has deteriorated significantly rather than having improved even minimally.)
__________

Multiple private e-mails to two frequent posters here have utterly failed to significantly improve their individual and collective behavior to anything that resembles minimally acceptable standards for the Senior Softball community. Both have had their posting privileges suspended and reinstated in the recent past, but this has not resulted in any measurable improvement in reducing the personal attacks directed at each other (and occasional third parties).

We initially dealt with this by trying to isolate and delete individual objectional posts, but found there were simply TOO MANY of them to justify the time required, and doing so most times adversely fragmented the flow of the threads. The next policy implemented was to delete full threads containing objectional content from them, but that's not the best solution, either. Otherwise meritorious content from responsible posters was disappearing with their unacceptable posts. [This has happened five times in the last 14 days.] There was a 'hope' here that complete thread kills would somehow rally the responsible posters to apply public peer pressure to them and just maybe result in better behavior. That hope was naive, at best.

So instead of wasting more time with another private email that they both will most certainly ignore, we're going to do this one right out in front of everyone. This way, when the (highly likely) posting privilege suspensions come again real soon, everyone will be 'in the know' on exactly why.

einstein -
- This is NOT your private Message Board, you are NOT in charge of Message Board policy (Don't like it? ... Go post elsewhere), and you do NOT speak for anyone other than yourself ... You represent NO majority of anyone on anything discussed here. You may happen to find yourself IN the majority from time to time, but you do NOT define that majority nor have you been annointed as their spokesman;
- There is NO identification requirement to be a member of this Message Board. Your apparent compulsion to start every response post with the targeted recipient's first name is not relevant to anyone but you. A poster's identification 'status' is totally irrelevant to us and likely so to the vast majority of Message Board members. Postings are to be judged solely on the merit of their content. Your continued berating of those who you can't personally identify is unacceptable;
- There is NO current plan to change the SSUSA bat/ball specification (this is at least the 50th time you have been told.) Nobody here knows of the existence of any global socio-economic/technological conspiracy directed solely at you to deprive you of the bat/ball combination you so desperately crave. The stultifyingly boring redundancy of your statements on this bat/ball non-issue is a waste of good bandwidth. You like the 44/375 ball. So do we! We get it. More important, if others may state a preference for a different technical ball standard, we demand you accord them the common courtesy of respecting their opinion, absent insults, as you may debate against them; and
- You are once again advised that your continued existence on the Message Board MUST BE absent playing the role of school-yard bully.

gary c -
- Your apparent compulsion to attack (or counter-attack) einstein on virtually every post, and to jointly escalate already individually and mutually boorish behavior is totally unacceptable. You are again reminded of your promise, as a pre-condition to reinstatement recently, to NOT resume the petty bickering with einstein, regardless of 'who starts it'. Not only have you have failed miserably in that promise, but you do so even in the cases where einstein doesn't initiate the hostilities;
- The Northern California Senior Softball Association (NCSSA) is an affiliate of SSUSA. SSUSA provides their tournament insurance, occasionally sell them softballs at below retail pricing, offers technical roster and eligibility assistance when requested, and jointly plans our tournament calendars to minimize date/event conflicts. When you blindly insult them, you are insulting a member of our 'family' in our home (this Message Board). We don't expect them to manage their affairs identically to us, nor should they. However, we do insist that you think hard before recklessly attacking the NCSSA publicly again;
- Your continuing inflammatory statements about the City of San Francisco in general and name-calling to einstein in particular are unacceptable. They are subtly sexually offensive (without any basis in fact) and this may come as news to you, but calling The city "Frisco" is perceived as an insult to those who live there and many of us who do not; and
- You are once again advised that your continued existence on the Message Board MUST BE absent playing the role of the up-and-coming challenger who's going to dethrone the current school-yard bully.

You two are in this circumstance together, like it or not, (despite einstein's apparent outrage over this undeniable linkage) for identically unacceptable posting behavior. Whether or not you two retain posting privileges here is dependent upon how you behave, starting IMMEDIATELY and it's going to require you both to radically change your current posting habits. Your next (and final) suspensions will be accompanied by a complete purge of all of your previous Message Board posts, relegating you both to "Historical Footnote" status.

We apologize to the rest of the Message Board Community on their behalf. This has all been sent to these two privately (on multiple occasions) and as everyone can see, crystal clearly, the private approach hasn't worked. It's utterly amazing that two individuals over 60 years old insist upon acting like this. Enough is enough!

This thread is being left open for a limited time to accommodate responsible public comment, meaning from persons other than these two antagonists.
Aug. 24, 2011
softball4b
Men's 60
706 posts
I know Joe, but not Gary C. Like Joe, but don't agree with him very often. Personal opinion is I hate censorship, but in this case. Pull the trigger quickly if necessary. I am tired of threads being hijacked and the discussion being nothing more than a diatribe.
Aug. 24, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
STAFF sorry as i have been in the middle also,i do believe it gets tiresome also and agree with most about that.hopefully it cleans up and we can get back to posting normally.52....DOH,LOL.......
Aug. 24, 2011
jimjoes-gman
Men's 55
80 posts
Sometimes its 4 balls & 3 strikes & you're out....and sometimes its 3 balls & 2 STRIKES & you are OUT....SSUSA,cant you tell that a lot of guys that live all across this great "Senior Softball" nation are "sick & tired" of reading that assine crap that "YOU" allow to be posted almost daily on "YOUR",or better yet,"OUR MSG BOARD"...."STOP THE INSANITY ", please !
Aug. 24, 2011
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
Gary, there are more than 100 teams of 50+ age senior softball players in northern California. I would imagine that more than 90% of those players are fans of the 49ers, 80% are fans of the San Francisco Giants, and a majority follow the Warriors. SSUSA is correct that most of these fans dislike the name Frisco for the home city of these teams. The closer to San Francisco they live, even in the city, the more they dislike the name. They find it demeaning and deliberately provocative, whether it refers to sports or not.

Also, it is very rare to find an older player who “hates” a Los Angeles team. That’s a strong term and more closely linked to fans under age 30. We are certainly not going to root for the Lakers or the Dodgers, but I just don’t know anyone my age that “hates” them.

And using the behavior of fans who chant “beat LA” as a justification for irritating your fellow senior softball players is sad. I have never chanted “beat LA” in my life, but I have gently corrected newer arrivals to the area, or visitors, when they say “Frisco.” And when you refer to San Francisco as Frisco, it doesn’t just irritate einstein, who lives there, but me as well. I think SSUSA is within their rights to ask that you drop the term.
Aug. 25, 2011
curty
Men's 60
99 posts
bravo SSUSA. I no longer read threads with these 2 people involved
Aug. 25, 2011
Sunshine1949
Men's 60
27 posts
It appears that they have been given numerous opportunities to change their rhetoric. It also seems like the majority has heard enough......if you have the ability SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Once problem, solved players with good intentions can continue to respectfully debate without the rambling chatter.

Sonny
Aug. 25, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1932 posts
Unanimous so far!! SSUSA has been patient and warned them enough. Amazing they even posted on this thread after being specifically told not to! Sounds almost like an addiction.
Aug. 25, 2011
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
SSUSA Staff,


Thank you so much for this !
Aug. 25, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4251 posts
I feel mad dog was a big part of all that and still is and will be no less an agitator. Not unlike the post here & with the added DOH, LOL
This should be about quality content not snide remarks just for postings sake.

Omar; As for a thread about San Fran I never read it but having liven there a long time and watched the Niner's at Kezar stadium and Giants at Seal stadium the name Frisco is one of the ways I referred to the city. Just like is use San Fran or SF & even the correct one San Francisco. Only other I can think of is the city &\or state as well, the land of fruits and nuts.
Like to Fresburg for Fresno.
Aug. 25, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
SSUSA ... Thank you!
Aug. 25, 2011
Duke
Men's 60
678 posts
SSUSA,

Thank you! The 3 months they were both gone, the message board was a pleasure to enjoy.

Andy Smith,
60 Major Plus/55 Major
Aug. 25, 2011
hitt2
354 posts
SSUSSA staff thank-you for this intervention I hope some good comes from it.
I've just started posting recently and you can see I haven't been around for some time because of the negative banter.

Gary c

I grew up in SoCal (OC) I can say it's not the same as when I was a lot younger. There are thing I miss about not living there, But I live up north because its were I settled after getting out of the service. I've met great people and then not so great indidivuals in both areas, however I accord them the respect deserving any individual that I disagree or agree with. You truely don't have any respect for anyone or any thing. You continue to be angry at the world. I'll continue to enjoy life and move forward.

Joe
I hear you, but it is time to let it go.

MD
Continue to stir the pot.
Some like the ball some don't.
Funny thing is, Most might not know it, but once you and Joe were friends.
It is a shame it come to this.

Tait
I think you've hit the nail on the head.

I'm not taking any side, but maybe another vaction for the 3 would be in the best interest for the rest of us.

Aug. 25, 2011
perly
88 posts
SSUSA, thanks for the intervention. I for one enjoy the various views posted however it has gotten totally out of hand lately. I've often backed einstein in his support of the good bat/ball combo and will continue to do so. Unfortuneately einstein and Gary C have taken their debates way to far and it's began to have a real negative effect on this board. These aren't the only two that have pushed the envelope, but I guess they are the primary culprits. This site provides the Senior Softball community a great forum to express and discuss the game we love. Abusers of your "posted standards" should be dealt with accordingly.
Aug. 25, 2011
Tim Millette
465 posts
Can't we all just get along?

We can argue issues and debate softball "problems" BUT anyone that gets upset about name calling needs to see it for what it is.

A last resort usually used by one that's loosing the discussion/argument.

Joe..... Your passion is good for this site.... You just have to tune out the personal attacks towards you.

We all see them for what they are...... Let the them roll off your back.

Who cares if someone doesn't like you.... The vast majority of the norcal softball community respects you and the passion you bring to the game.

Don't let a few people push you into getting banned from this site.... If your banned they win and we all loose.
Aug. 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
tim it goes both ways,joe calls names just as bad as gary,and actually got it started with a simple post that gary asked a question.joe lambasted him for asking,and then it was on.


hitt2 i know you ? also joe and i have never been friends,i knew him to talk to thats all.i actually had heard various things about him that weren't all that loveable about him,and this was long time back.long before i moved from cali to texas.........
Aug. 25, 2011
EG Fred
Men's 60
16 posts
Just 2 words... Thank You!
Aug. 25, 2011
stick8
1238 posts
The best way to "nip it in the budd" so to speak is to simply agree to disagree and move on.
Look at it his way, if everyone felt the same exact way about issues we'd live in an awful boring world.
Aug. 25, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
As I'm reading some of the post on this thread, I can already see folks taking sides and defending Joe or Gary. There is no defense when breaking rules when visiting someone's house. The SSUSA has spoken and taken what action they felt was needed. Can anyone else see where some of these post are going? The thread needs to be closed. It's starting to become he wins the other loses or we all lose. There's no winners here no matter if they stay or go. The games are played on the field.
Aug. 25, 2011
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
stick8,
I agree. but when it gets personal. that draws the line...............and enough is enough, they just don't know what enough is !
Aug. 25, 2011
titanhd
Men's 50
314 posts
Stick are you calling balls and strikes at Lansing or Potterville this weekend?
Aug. 25, 2011
stick8
1238 posts
Actually titanhd that's changed a few times in the last day. As it is now I'll be at Liberty umping the Great Lakes Divisional but that could change again.
Aug. 25, 2011
stick8
1238 posts
#6 I agree with you and a couple times I've ventured into that madness. I just made a promise to myself to walk away if I get to that point. Just not worth it
Aug. 25, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
Like so many others, thank you SSUSA Staff.
Aug. 25, 2011
Conman
Men's 50
71 posts
Sorry but this was way over due. Thanks to the SSUSA staff for bringing some sanity back to this board.

Conman
Aug. 25, 2011
4x4
Men's 65
589 posts
It's kind of like the big dog followed by a chirpy little dog trailing nipping at the big dog's heels. Sooner or later it was going to end badly. Even when there was no confrontations the contempt was so thinly veiled that it usurped the validity of the threads. Nobody could discern or grasp what was genuine anymore.

We souldn't have to be on guard as a group before we even open the message board - but all of us are to some degree now.

It's bad enough to have some that feel they have to comment on every thread let alone destroy each one they touch.

Taits is right. There are more than those two that have gone way beyond the boundaries in attempts to antagonize and taunt again throwing the threads and our softball community in a tailspin. Again it has completely undermined the credibility of the preson(s) making the post. Some that were respected simply no long are when discussed around the fields. Most of the respected players/members have either quit coming to the site or afraid to participate any longer. Some of us have wandered back hoping it was better only to be sadly disappointed.

It then becomes a loss to all of us because we lose what these folks have to offer. We're talking HOF caliber people both on and off the field - - - gone.

Woody mentioned the scorpion and the frog fable. There's a whole lot of scorpion and frog activity going on - after awhile the scorpion and the frog both look the same.
Aug. 25, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
"Life is too serious to be taken seriously."

—Mike Leonard

Aug. 25, 2011
thebull
Men's 50
59 posts
1. Don't have to read it, but do have to skip over line after line after line.
2. I'm not girly.
3. Rag Yes, attack No.
4. Not Upset, just tired and bored.
5. I already have a Life.
6. Sayonara

theBull
Aug. 25, 2011
green rocket
51 posts
Freedom of speech is a right in this country. Posting personal views on this board is a privilege.

Some get them confused.
Aug. 26, 2011
Paco13
352 posts
Personally, I think that none of them should be banned. They both bring something to the table, especially Einstein, I like the way that he expresses his thoughts...very articulate. A little tire of the ball/bat combo, but he is probably right if we go back to wooden and single wall bats the game will suffer. Utrip and good balls is all what is needed...If we do not like what they post skip it...simple. WE ARE ALL 50 YO MEN/WOMEN LETS STOP ACTING LIKE KIDS. GUYS IT IS A SIMPLE GAME...ENJOY IT. Getting ready for Irene. Have a nice day.

PR NINJA OUT
Aug. 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Cmon Joe. It's their board, they can pick and choose how they want to run it. We have two choices here as members of this board. Log on using their terms or find another board. I think it's simple. Somewhere our society started thinking that we can dictate & run these private businesses because we are the business. Wrong, it is a dictatorship with an opportunity to have your voice heard. Let it go. You might win the battle, but you'll lose the war!!! JMO
Aug. 26, 2011
dj
32 posts
I also think mad dog was at fault for a lot of this

DJ
Aug. 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
My point has been made. Now it's your fault for pointing finger at MD. Do you see the circle here. It's over, I think!!
Aug. 26, 2011
GSWP001
Men's 60
70 posts
It is enough that SSUSA has stated and did what they must, but for us to comment anymore is fanning the flames also. Let it lie.
Aug. 26, 2011
dj
32 posts
Pricer not taking sides making a point same as you are
DJ
Aug. 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
pricer no prol.i don't let them bother me......
Aug. 26, 2011
pitcher55
Men's 55
130 posts
ssusa staff, thank you and please don't wait so long next time.they didn't listen to your warnings,please get rid of them for good.
Aug. 26, 2011
jimjoes-gman
Men's 55
80 posts
Sorry Tim , your "vast majority" doesnt prevail in the midwest or the east.And further more we dont lose "nothing"..... We gain , & what we gain is an open msg board , shared by guys that can carry on a mature , normal , low key agreeable , some times mildly debateable ,topics of otherwise logical , of senior softball ins & outs, & subjects that interest players of "various classifications" and not just those of a non defensive,nomadic,t-shirt collecting, "one hit wonder", probably,deep down, a "GOOD OLE BOY", with a big heart & very loveable to those that know him personably,and to those that dont, he can become an invasive figure on an avenue , where we all share our personal opinions & thoughts, in a non-invasive dialog . I just cant help remembering the "Ricki Lake" national talk show incident a few years back & what it resulted in & how it started so innocently.
Aug. 27, 2011
leftyfalcon
Men's 65
156 posts
Paco 13 I'm with you on your message. They use to use utrip
bats and good balls. The only problem they figured by
letting us use the ultra bats they could buy cheaper balls.
It's all about about profit. The last tourney in Birmingham
they used one of the cheapest balls and raised stitches on
the ball so they didn't loose the balls they were using over
and over until the ball didn't come back. The TD told me
they tried giving so many balls to teams but some would ice
them down. So they stopped. Like the pitcher is that stupid
on a 90 degree day he can't tell the difference between a
cold and normal ball for the temp. of the day. When you
read on the box it said keep cool. I told the TD it would help alot if the ump would keep out the ball sun. I
don't think he new anything about balls or cared. I had
a good time and seen alot friends.
Aug. 27, 2011
outlaw
Men's 50
24 posts
Bravo....FINALLY.....two of the most irritating posters I've ever seen.
They not only attack each other, but anyone who disagrees.
Hi-jack almost every thread with their individual drivel.
Thankfully I don't know either of them, and have no inclination to pursue that option.
Aug. 27, 2011
db14
90 posts
To Staff: thanks for addressing two of the three circus acts, you still have one more mad dog act to pack up and put on the truck out of town.
Aug. 27, 2011
warren60
Men's 60
42 posts
Thank you. There is much more information flow when the personal assaults (and insults) are missing.
Aug. 30, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1006 posts
The two individuals who were the subject of this thread have both had their Message Board posting privileges indefinitely suspended, effective August 29th. There is no current timeline for reinstatement, if any. We apologize for the delay in remedying this unfortunate set of circumstances, and look forward to the resumption of responsible commentary on matters of importance to the Senior Softball Message Board Community.

[Thread Closed]
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