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Discussion: mandatory move ups....

Posted Discussion
Sept. 1, 2011
coop3636
57 posts
mandatory move ups....
I would like to hear comments from other players on this .
here are my thoughts.

Senior softball moves teams up because they win one tourney or have a good year. Teams need to win consistently for two years to have to move up. This way a when you build a team you can play together for a couple of years in the division you want to. In the senior level, all sorts of things happen to players, teams etc. injuries, moving up an age group, retirement, death, all sorts of things that change a team for year to year or even month to month. I have talked to many players from many teams and most have the same opinion and it seems that if you have a good year or maybe just win a BIG tourney, you are moved up and then have to play the next year and get killed all year long. This is NOT fun for players and makes teams break up most than necessary.

Please list some suggestions here and myabe the associations will get some good ideas.

Mine is to move a team up aftert 2 years of winnning.
or just let teams play where they want to, HR limits will keep most teams in the division they need to play.
Sept. 1, 2011
softballerK1
Men's 65
29 posts
I think the rules for moving up and down should be the same. Currently, you are automatically moved up if you win a major tournament in any of the associations and there were at least 6 teams competing and you have no appeal rights for a year. Any team can get "lucky" for that one weekend. In order for them to move back down, they then have to play 3 tournaments, get their butts kicked each time, and then appeal. You also have to provide the appropriate stats to justify your appeal. I think you should have to win 3 major tournaments in 1 year to move up. That makes the movements equal. Also, you should be able to prove you shouldn't be moved up by providing the same appropriate stats. I'm also not sure I like the measuring stick of beating your opponents by an average of 5 runs or more. You can lose a lot of close games and then beat someone badly and that will screw up the average. Average really doesn't mean anything unless you look at all the information on how that average was achieved. I realize none of this is easy and the associations do the best they can to avoid any "sandbagging". I also think SSUSA does a much better job than SPA and ISSA in rating the teams.

As for homerun limits, I don't mind them. They have been around for years. In fact, I would venture to say most local leagues have home run limits so I don't see what the big deal is. What happens after the limit is reached is another matter.
Sept. 1, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Read the bottom Priority thread in red, but here is synopsis:

"The Ratings pages have been updated to reflect changes for teams winning either the SPA National Championships or the SSUSA World Championships during the 2010 Tournament Season. The changes affect the respective Champions in Divisions having four (4) or more teams competing."
It is not all assns and not full brackets. Not a good idea on a two year period. too many changes I agree with the changes each year and all but that happens anyway. I do not like the 3 T lose factor. But have seen a team or two win 4-5 rings in a year and not get moved also.
I think more input might be needed or actually used. I believe they get quite a bit though.
Sept. 1, 2011
coop3636
57 posts
I acutally like the 3 win in a year idea if all the tournaments have a good number of teams in it. Anything under 7 teams should not count toward a move up.
I also agree that anyone can get "lucky" and win one tournament. It happens all the time and is not fair to get bumped up because of that one weekend.

Sept. 1, 2011
stattad
Men's 65
166 posts
I think the key is the number of teams. Someone winning a tournament with 6 teams isn't that big of a deal. After all, SOMEONE has to win it no matter how good the teams are.
Sept. 1, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
well i have seen teams moved up with a 5 team tourney and not moved up with a 23 team tourney.

to me if ya win a worlds you automatically should be moved up for one year,don't care.it is what all other assoc do,young and old..... winning during the year should not require a move up,unless it is proven the team is way below where it should be playing.
Sept. 1, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Personaly I don't think anyone should be moved up without winning multiple TOC or world tourneys in a 2 year period. Competition is different in every tourney in every region. Winning is what we play for, but I would think if the competition is not very good it would not be fun or enjoyable at all. I think at our age there's more to just the winning!
Sept. 1, 2011
tinman
Men's 50
75 posts
I like the 2 year idea.The current system broke up our team.Four All-American players have not played one game in 2011.The rest of us have found new teams to play on and the excitment is gone.We were not a Major+ Team and we were not going to bat 10 and sit 6 at the higher level.
Sept. 1, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
I'm with you Tinman
Sept. 2, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
pricer all assoc do it,if you win a worlds you need to move up,that is the way it should happen.can't help it if a team doesn't want to try and compete at a higher level,they should at least give it a shot,why do they need to stay at the lower level after having just won it.
Sept. 2, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
I have to disagree with you on this MD. Because it's etched in stone or paper that you move up if you win a worlds is wrong. If a team has an average to decent year and is definitely in the correct division, have a priest in Caddy shack type weekend and win the worlds. That makes them a move up? No way! When folks play in the proper divisions and win the big one, so be it. If they win every weekend, now that's a different story. Two divisions per age group will be essential to our game. You like that last line? LOL
Sept. 2, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
i watched a team one year,set their roster in january and didn't use it again for the rest of the year with make up rosters and playing people out of positions.they get moved down and then go and wipe out the div they were move down to.now the reason i like "if you win you move up" is to stop stuff like this.to me you win a nationals you have already showed that your the class of that div,why hang around and dominate it again.move up to better competition and see what your made of.to me you only need to do it 1 year for the move up........
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