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Discussion: tag up rule timing play

Posted Discussion
Sept. 30, 2011
unclebuckgb
4 posts
tag up rule timing play
in vegas this past weekend when this situation came up runners on first & third 1 out fly ball man on first did not tag up, man on third tags & scores before throw to first to get man coming back to first i always read that this is a timing play not a force out and run should score asa rule "if a runner leaves a base too soon on a caught fly ball and returns in an attempt to retag, this is considered a time play and not a force out. if the appeal is the third out, all runs scored by runners in advance of the appealed runner and scored ahead of the legal appeal will count" it was not an appeal play and not a force so run should score??
Sept. 30, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1261 posts
RUN SCORES (assuming the runner crossed the scoring line/plate before the put-out at 1st base) ... Run does not score when the third out of the half-inning is a force play, but a force play occurs ONLY when the runner is advancing to the next base to which he/she is entitled ... In this case, he was returning to a base ... This is purely a timing play.
Sept. 30, 2011
unclebuckgb
4 posts
that was my contention but per senior softball rule 8.1 E "failure of a preceding runner to touch a base or to leave a base legally on a caught fly ball and is declared out does not affect the status of a succeeding runner who touches the bases in proper order. however, if the preceding runner were to be called out for the third out of the inning, no succeeding runner may score a run" am i missing something?
Sept. 30, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1261 posts
Yes you are. The runner on 3rd base is the preceding runner, and he was NOT put out. The put-out was for a succeeding runner, the one originally on 1st base when the ball was hit. That runner is 'preceding' with respect to the batter and 'succeeding' with respect to the runner on 3rd base. We stand by our original ruling of RUN SCORES, notwithstanding what may have been ruled by the umpire(s).
Sept. 30, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
as this is described,the run counts,i don't care if the runner who did not tag ran all the way around to home and you tag him there.all tag ups are a timing play,no matter what,so the out needs to be recorded before the legal tag has scored,for the run not to count.......
Sept. 30, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
another scenario,1st and 3rd(3rd will be the fifth run of the inning),2 outs,batter hits a ball in the gap for a hit,1st base runner sees the runner from 3rd scoring easily so stops and never goes to second,now what........2 takes on this call......
Sept. 30, 2011
unclebuckgb
4 posts
thanks for the response that is what i was trying to tell the umpire & the tournament director to no avail we did not get the run, then we did get the run, then they took it away we lost by 1 they used the senior softball rule but didnt know the difference between succeeding & preceding runner. also they were saying it was a force out at first my argument to them was correct
Sept. 30, 2011
frampton
Men's 55
55 posts
Mad dog, that's the "Merkle's Boner" play, if the fielding team steps on second to force the runner who had been on first and that's the third out, the run does not count.

Lots of folks -- even experienced players -- seem to think that the fact that a player doesn't need to be tagged going back after not tagging up makes that a force play. It isn't (as others have pointed out).
Sept. 30, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
dang frampton you are going way back for that one.

ok that is one way,what about the runner leaving the field of play for an automatic out,entering the dugout,etc......
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