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Discussion: COLD WEATHER BAT DAMAGE

Posted Discussion
Nov. 20, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
COLD WEATHER BAT DAMAGE
You are more likely to break a composite bat when you hit it in cold weather, as opposed to hot weather. Is the bat damage due more to the bat being cold, the ball being cold, or both?
Nov. 20, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
The density of the composite material changes making it more brittle.
Nov. 20, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
i have always been told,that it is a harder/heavier ball(aka cold,wet,etc) that will do the most damage to your bat,the cold being the biggest problem.if you keep the balls warm,not such a big prol......
Nov. 21, 2011
PJ3P
Men's 50
76 posts
the ball compression increases approximately 5 lbs for every degree under 72 and lessens 5 lbs for every degree above 72.

For the math challenged
44-375 @ 72 becomes 44-400 @ 67 degrees & 44-525 @ 42 degrees
44-285 @ 90 degrees
Nov. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
PJ3P,

For the science challenged, what study proved this to be true?
Nov. 21, 2011
PJ3P
Men's 50
76 posts
ok challenged one 19, talk to Tattooball I'm pretty sure he will back up what I posted.
Nov. 21, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
G-19 is softball bat challenged (lol) and has had two other monikers besides Gary19, before this one without any info... go Gary...
Here is a post by a known player who post here. Tattooball has a post about this but this was the first I came across.

Oct. 31, 2008
SCRAPPY6
55 posts
HEAT AND COLD ARE DEFINATE FACTOR WITH SOFTBALLS. AS A PAST WORTH REP I SAW MANY REPORTS ON BALL PERFORMANCE TESTING.
TEMPERATURE AFFECTS A SOFTBALL AT APPROXIMATELY THIS LEVEL:
FOR EVERY 1 DEGREE OF TEMPERATURE CHANGE THE COMPRESSION CHANGES APPROXIMATELY 5 POUNDS.

BALLS ARE USUALLY TESTED AT 72 DEGREES.
IF THE PLAYING TEMPERATURE IS 82 DEGREES THE COMPRESSION CHANGES APPROXIMATELY 50 LBS WHICH WILL MAKE A 375 BALL PLAY LIKE A 325.
CONVERSELY IF THE TEMPERATURE IS 62 DEGRESS A 375 BALL WILL PLAY LIKE A 425.
(THAT IS WHY IN COLD WEATHER ALUMINUM BATS DENT MUCH EASIER--THE BALL IS HARDER)

IF YOU A GAME IS PLAYED AT 92 DEGREES YOUR 375 COMPRESSION SOFTBALL WILL PLAY LIKE A 275 COMPRESSION BALL.

THESE ARE ONLY ESTIMATES AND THERE ARE OTHER FACTORS SUCH AS HIUMIDITY, ETC. THAT ALSO TAKE EFFECT ON THE BALLS.
MIKE
SCRAPPY 6
Nov. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Scott, I just try not to play out of the rough or sand, hence I don't need a full bag of clubs. I mean bats. =)

Once again I detect touchiness.

Never said it wasn't right, I am just educated enough not to blindly believe without some sort of substantiation.
Nov. 21, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
well i guess not educated enough,as this info has been out there for a couple of years now,or is it you don't know how to do research.......pjp3 has the numbers right as the ball is tested at 72 degrees.
also shouldn't you be playing before even carrying a bat....
Nov. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Sure, I can look up anything on the internet, if you want to call that empirical research. I don't.

Me playing? I play plenty, just not in tiny brackets against the same teams for a disproportionate amount of money. The true nationals sound great, but the locals just haven't been very good.

PJ3P, do you happen to know who did this testing, and how credible they are?
Nov. 21, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
"Me playing? I play plenty, just not in tiny brackets against the same teams for a disproportionate amount of money."

So, where are you playing that you get so much bang for your buck in a large tournament with new teams?
Nov. 21, 2011
garyheifner
361 posts
Don't know about above formulas and various testing or Gary 19s lack of knowledge-which seems considerable at times-but anyway I do know-

That up in the Chicago area we go about 5 months without playing. So in the spring, around April, if its sunny and about 45 degrees or higher, a little hitting often takes place. Since 2002 when our team formed at least a half dozen or more composites have cracked during these cold weather sessions. We now mostly use old aluminums or composites that no longer have any meaning or value. Yes, we do have a few break during the warm months, but many of my teammates have U2s with 1000s of hits on them.

To summarize-we feel cold weather is a danger zone for composites.

Nov. 21, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
I can't wait to hear this reply from Mr Wonderful.
Nov. 22, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
I broke number 8 in 2 years in Vegas Saturday-could it be that it was 44 degrees in the morning? :-) Of course it was. We had bat warmers, but apparently wasn't enough.
Nov. 22, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
Webbie, no way to control ball temp.......that adds to the broken bat problem in cold weather also.
Nov. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Tool/curveball, you expecting to hear from Paul Orndorff?
Nov. 22, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Webbie try the DeMarini Stadium model in cold weather you might need ear plugs.
Nov. 22, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
5tools-I can't hear anyway-no biggie there!! Can't play with the hearing aids in. I have to admit it is just hard to go out there and try to compete in a tournament with less than what I feel is the best bat for me. Even if I know it is probably going down. Sounds like a personal problem to me. :-)
Nov. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Gary, what "lack of knowledge"? I was just looking for some substantiation of the "facts" PJ3P presented. No one should just blindly believe what they read.
Nov. 22, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
Never heard of him. Is he a Cleveland rec. player? I'll ask you once again: "Me playing? I play plenty, just not in tiny brackets against the same teams for a disproportionate amount of money."

So, where are you playing that you get so much bang for your buck in a large tournament with new teams?

Let us know so we can get the dates for the 2012 event.
Nov. 22, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts

Yet again, Gary 19 has taken a discussion and made it all about him. He has nothing intelligent, positive, interesting or helpful to say. Again, it's nothing but a pathetic cry for attention.

I appreciate the input from the rest of you men. From what I've gathered, more of the damage is caused by a cold ball as opposed to a cold bat. Thanks
Nov. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
About me? Not really.

I just asked a simple question about some sources of the data, I really don't believe in just blindly believing the internet. And then the requisite attacking began.

Nov. 22, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
OK, Gary19 here is a task for you,
please spend 8 months on this task,
"Determine how much a ball increases in hardness per degree
of temperature increase starting from 72"
Use any resource you find that may have the answers,
AND
during this 8 month period
"please do not post on this board"....

Looking fwd to your findings in 8 months, good bye.
Nov. 22, 2011
PJ3P
Men's 50
76 posts
Normally I refuse to feed the trolls, which is why I answered the trolls question before he asked it?
Yet he still comes on here and whines aout not having substantiation of the numbers I posted.
Why don't you ask Kevin, aka Tatooball? In case you didn't notice you are the only one who can't accept what is factual information. But of course you don't care one way or the other. For a stinking troll any attention is good attention.
Nov. 22, 2011
PJ3P
Men's 50
76 posts
That would be "about" and "Tattooball"
Nov. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"good bye"???? Sorry to hear it sounds like you are leaving, crusher.

Why do I need to accept it without being told how credibly the study was performed? Because less analytical people did? Never said you were wrong, never, just wanted more (some?) details on how what you stated was determined.
Nov. 24, 2011
17Black
Men's 50
220 posts
Back to the topic------I played in Vegas in 2010 Winter Worlds and temps for our games last year were in the high 40's with light drizzle(we played a few under the lights when temps dropped)

I usually use a black Ultra II but I broke in a red end-loaded U-II just before the tournament while practicing in Ohio. The temps here last October/November were nicer 60's for the most part) than Vegas when we got there.

The Red U-II didn't hold up---got some great swings with it over about 6 games or so------but it shattered in multiple places during the last game.

Keep in mind, they are not meant to be used with temps in the 40's and low 50's---But you hate not to use them when your opponents are using them too------

My Black UII broke in the spring here anyway, as league games in May in Ohio are also cool in the evenings.

Added to my garage graveyard of shattered Mikens.
Dec. 6, 2011
surf88
Men's 60
874 posts
Guys, you may consider our Reebok Vector-o's. They have a thicker wall than our Melee's and they get really hot after they break in. They can be hit in cold weather and they have a warranty. Northern players bought them from me in Phoenix for three reasons
1) They have good pop. 2) They are great for BP and cold weather 3) They have warranty. Contact me and I'll get you one. Ed 970.729.3145 ed@ewandrews.com
Dec. 6, 2011
tattooball
620 posts
The 5lbs per degree is correct and has been widely studie since 1985 when thin walled cu-31 bats started being produced. BUT there are many factors that affect this. COR is the most. a 50 cor ball is easier on bats no matter what. .40 are the worst on bats below 75 degrees.

Composite bats break more often in cool temps no matter what.

Here is a little test you can do for yourself. (Bats are made of plastic.)

Take 2 plastic spoons forks or knives. Place one in the freezer for 2 hours and place one in a hot surface for 2 hours. (not to hot to melt it) Then take the 2 of them and see how far they will bend before breaking. The one from the freezer will break immediatly.

Bats are very much the same, in cold weather they don't want to flex.
Dec. 6, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
tattooball,where is this info on the fork and knife,sounds a bit fishy to me....DOH,LOL......


thanks kevin for helping us here with the naysyaer.......
Dec. 6, 2011
PJ3P
Men's 50
76 posts
Yeah, thanks Kevin, now maybe the troll will chase after you. Be prepared to explain how you saw this testing first hand. Also be prepared to tell the troll where you bought the test gear and who certified it's accuracy along with listing everyones degrees in softball testing technology. Make sure it is all certified, notorized and sworn to on a copy of senior softball magazine. Otherwise have a nice day. :-)

BTW then prepare for the second round of inquiry, IJS
Dec. 6, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Sorry. Those of us who went through higher education were taught the value of proof of assertions, and not just blind believing.

Never said it was wrong, just wanted the studies cited.
Dec. 7, 2011
tattooball
620 posts
Never had a problem with Gary, some of the stuff he says I agree with some I don't. I am sure he and most that post on here feel the same about things I post. If everybody agreed on everything posted on a message board there would be no need to have one. I know at times some of his post's can annoy people but those are the ones I choose to avoid.

Have a great week I am off to the convention.
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