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Discussion: How many guys would or would not be playing if Gary19 had his way on rules?

Posted Discussion
Dec. 6, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
How many guys would or would not be playing if Gary19 had his way on rules?
Ok, let's see out there.
No courtesy runners, 4-3 count, no mat, 6-12 unlimited arc pitches, 60 foot bases and 45 foot mound (remember them?), no DH, wood bats or circa 1980 metal bats with a soft old time ball-wound?, no rules against hitting at the pitcher, no extra home plate, no orange safety bag at first, no commit line, no re-entry rule, 2 divisions-upper and lower with no age brackets, 1 National Tournament with rings provided by the Tournament, and no other ring tournaments, 1 set of regional tournaments, no home run rules (probably none needed), have to run out every home run, have I forgotten anything? This was the way it was when I started playing.
Dec. 6, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Mark, that is close, but a bit exaggerated.

My only point is why do we need to play with this drastically different of a set of rules from what the kids play?

Are we older? Sure. Is it still a game that was played by 8 year old girls? Yes.
Dec. 6, 2011
OTE24
Men's 65
122 posts
Webbie, It would lead to fewer players. Maybe that's the goal.Even 8 year olds have different rules than college players. What group are we to support? Best idea is to start you own organization,it's the free market at it's best. Let the individual decide what's best for him.
Dec. 6, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I am certain it would lead to fewer players. The question is exactly why.

My hunch would be the bats. Keep the bats and many other rules could change. Eliminate the special bats, keep all of the other senior rules, and my hunch is guys would still leave in droves.

Dec. 6, 2011
OTE24
Men's 65
122 posts
Gary, Webbie addressed at least 20 issues and it only comes down to bats? In OC,Ca. there are no doublewall bat leagues,yet the same players all play. Yes, they use only metal bats. However,most of the rules Webbie cited are in effect. Leagues and Tourney organizations should be free to determine their own rules. Stay healthy and good luck next year. John
Dec. 6, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
380 posts
Webbie25 you have already lost. The 19 has switched to WHY.

Here is something that is in control in this and any other
area The 19 destroyes.

"NEVER, NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT BECAUSE THEY WILL
DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE"
Dec. 6, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Mark now you've gone and done it, you put his name up in lights. Thanks alot! =)

Hows the snow in New Mexico treating you?
Dec. 6, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
It's cold-8 degrees this morning and a couple inches. Wind has been amazing-88 mph 2 miles from my house. I'm bored and so I got a bit combative! Too cold to ride my bike-the tires are frozen with a flat spot-too bumpy. Besides-without Gary Contrary, everyone might agree that overall we have a good game. Even with 5 teams we walk out with 5 or more games-beats the alternative of no tournaments.
Crusher-you are right-it takes EXPERIENCE to be an idiot. I thought I was naturally one most of the time, but Gary does prove your point.
I WISH IT WOULD WARM UP AND WE COULD PLAY SOFTBALL! I hate winter!
Dec. 6, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
Could we equate arguing with an idiot to pig wrestling?
Dec. 6, 2011
stick8
1238 posts
Webbie I would play. But I'm just an old softball whore lol
Dec. 6, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
stick, you are my kind of player.

I feel bad for the guys who must have been really miserable playing in the 60s and 70s with the "horrible" rules in existence then.
Dec. 6, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Truth be known, stick, I would play, too. But, I know a lot of guys that wouldn't or couldn't.
I just wish I didn't have to read his slams at senior softball, and the guys who actually like it, on every subject.
Dec. 6, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
one thing Webbie25--at -8 degrees the "rabbits" would just be sitting should make some people happy
Dec. 6, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
first off get your history right,it is not a game invented for girls,it was invented for guys back in the early 1900's by an ivy league person.maybe you should look it up first.........


i started playing softball in the late 1960's while in the military.i looked for and used the best equipment i could get my hands on,and did so for the following years i played up till now,and if something comes out next year that is better,i'll use that.if something new/improved came out,i used it.i do the same with everything i do/use,if it has an improvement to it and makes it better,i think we all do/use it.

so 19,do you use any new gadgets that are out and why,please let us know how you are stopping from using technology that is out now a days.
Dec. 6, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
pup,

I did not say, this time, that the game was invented for them. Only that they played it.

And no, not really any gadgets. No cellphone. No GPS. No iPod. No Wi. No Nintendo. No power locks. No power windows. No Kindle. No cable TV. No DVD player.
Dec. 6, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
damn! Sorry Gary..........do you at least have two sticks to start your fire at night?
Dec. 6, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Our furnace is working just fine, and in northeast Ohio that is a much appreciated thing.

As I tell my kids, who have most if not all of those things, I have a job, a YMCA membership, a bat, and a glove. Not much else a man needs. =)
Dec. 6, 2011
garyheifner
334 posts
Webbie

To answer your orginal question- ABSOLUTELY NO. Wouldn't waste my time and $$$.
Dec. 6, 2011
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Wouldn't it be neat if Gary19 had at least one of the gadgets he claims not to have or use.

No, unfortunately for Senior Softball he had to learn how to use a computer. Now we all have to be inundated by him rambling on with his comments on just about every thread on this message board.

I used to work with a guy like him. Always had a comment on everything, even when he didn't know what he was talking about and always had to have the last word. A real pain in the neck to say the least.
Dec. 7, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
797 posts
I would probably still play especially locally. I could perfect my "dink" game with the old bats and crummy balls!
Dec. 7, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Al, I post in a small minority of threads on this site.

Check it out, then mix in some actual facts with your comments.
Dec. 7, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Gary, as you know all of your comments are stored on your personal site that you can get to by clicking on your name. I went back and counted and out of 996 posts, 756 were negative or disparaging, 118 were reasonably neutral, 36 were about your family, and 85 were asking people to supply facts. And there was 1 positive thread.
Geez, I'm bored-Summer please get here!
Dec. 7, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
"negative or disparaging" or discussing improvements?
Dec. 7, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
248 posts
to bad Gary didn't add no computer to his list.
Dec. 7, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Hey, I am not a complete caveman. =)
Dec. 7, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
I'd play regardless of the equipment. I'm typing this on my commodore 16!
Dec. 7, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Darn-GEICO was ready to hire you, Gary!

Interesting you questioned disparaging but did not even challenge the count.
Dec. 7, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Darn, there goes my next career.

Honestly, I wasn't going to do that much leg work.

And I think 756 posts of useful suggestions is a good thing, if I do say so myself. =)
Dec. 7, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
JBTexas,and i am wondering why he does,since he has none of the other new world things we have today.wonder if it is only dial up,or if he has a lan line,something sounds very fishy........
Dec. 7, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I work in IT, I just dont' need "gadgets".

I don't need a cellphone, I dont' pretend to be important enough that I need to be on the phone 24/7. Don't like GPSs at all, I much prefer my own directions. Don't need an iPod, I prefer talk radio. I have no physical problems with cranking up and down my car windows. I can get plenty of over the air TV stations, and don't need to spend more time in front of the TV anyway.

Technology is fine, I am just not a gadget guy to any great extent.
Dec. 7, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Gary, there is always my global warming bat. I've been working on it for some time now. As you swing it, it gathers CO (Carbon Monoxide), and CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) by absorbing it into the bat, therefore reducing the risk of global warming. The faster you swing it, the more it gathers and the more it gathers the livelier it gets. Then it creates byproducts like CO5 (Carbon Quintoxide) and CO8 (Carbon Octoxide)that are not greenhouse gases but propel a softball off of the bat-naturally. Last time I saw, Einstein was pacing off the latest 950 foot home run that he hit with it.
Just send me $500 and I will ship it free to all. It meets SSUSA standards because it starts legal and gets livelier the more you swing it. And, at the same time you are saving the planet.
Dec. 7, 2011
stick8
1238 posts
Gary whether it's major plus or beer league I'm just one who loves to play. I'd love to get back into hardball but I just don't have enough time to commit. I'm told senior baseball is as big if not bigger than senior softball.
Dec. 7, 2011
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Well Gary19, I guess useful suggestions is in the eye of the beholder. Whoever that might be.
Webbie25 has supplied your numbers which support the facts and the facts are that you are a negative person.
You should also try using actual facts yourself with your 756 disparaging and negative remarks because your opinions are just that. Your opinions, not most of ours.

Dec. 7, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
380 posts
Hey Webbie25, if THE 19 gets that bat he should be able to get a ball all the way to the 3rd baseman.
Bet it would be a youtube smash!
Dec. 7, 2011
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
We all know Gary is a traditionalist, and there are a lot of rules he has defended over the last few years that I could easily accept, but there are others that I think are improvements, especially in senior softball (hot bats are not one of them). But since I've discussed/argued about most of the improvements over those same years, no use rehashing them now. I'd play anyway.

Webbie, I like the concept of your new green-friendly bat, but starting out legal and getting livelier and livelier with use has already been done. It was originally called the Miken, but now most composites brag about the same quality which I consider much like cheating.

On a related subject, has anyone noticed that the Miken improvement plateaus and then starts to decline? My 8-year-old U2 has more than 4000 hits on it and doesn't seem to have the same pop...or maybe it's the batter who is getting older and weaker? :=)
Dec. 8, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Mark, do you want to explain to Al the validity of that "756" figure you threw out there?
Dec. 8, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Sometimes I need to get my tongue out of my cheek. Al33, although I would guess that my figures might be reasonably close, do you really think I counted and rated all 996 posts? I'm bored, but not that bored. I guess my point was that Gary did not even challenge that figure so he knows exactly what he is doing, and that's just who he is. He knows and that's his schtick.
crusher-not sure Gary know what a youtube is as low tech as he claims to be.
Omar-maybe thats the reason I haven't been able to get up to CO10 (Carbon TetOxide) for the bat! It sucks too much CO2 out of the air and the bat gets overloaded and loses pop! Kinda like being drunk. Thanks!
Back to studying for finals!
Dec. 8, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Mark, only partially true. While I did not challenge the number, I certainly challenged the assertion they were "negative and disparaging". Now you know that. Why not admit/acknowledge it?

I know YouTube. Find it to be kind of silly, people posting videos of themselves as if a bunch of other people are supposed to care. Probably the same people who have cellphones, as if they are important enough to need to be contacted 24/7 no matter where they are or what they are doing.
Dec. 8, 2011
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
I don't know or even care if you counted them or not. Your tongue in cheek comment is probably generous with numbers. The point is and was well taken that Gary19 has little positive to say about the game of senior softball. Gary never responds or challenges anybody on this board when you strike a nerve and he has no comeback. He's resistent to most anything unless he either thought of it or agrees with it. He's intent on stirring the pot. A good nickname for him is (TAK) The All Knowing. Guys should be ashamed for stooping to his level, but it at least passes the time. If he was ignored, do you think he'd get the point? I doubt it.
Dec. 8, 2011
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Gary, you should have one of your kids check on the internet to see if you can get a free cell phone. Some states are even giving the homeless free phones with with x-number of minutes so that prospective employers may be able to contact them. You're a tax payer and should be able to talk yourself into getting one. Then you could see the merits in having one. I don't know about you, but pay phones aren't readily available where I live.
Dec. 8, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Should I have said negative and repetitive?
disparages: tending to belittle or bring reproach upon.
If your comments are not belittling to Senior softball "silly rules", "games 8 yr old girls play" etc. etc. etc., then how do you define them? I don't think positive and encouraging quite fits.
Or do I have to separate, very disparaging, slightly disparage, and not disparaging but not complimentarty either?
Dec. 8, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
oops, complimentary
Dec. 8, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Just my take, but I am not important enough to have to be reachable 24/7 in my car, in restaurants, in elevators, in theaters, in bathroom stalls and wherever else I can act like I am vital to mankind.

My father survived 78 years without one, my mother is in her 82nd year without one, and I really can't recall the last time I said "damn, I wish I had a cellphone."

Mark, no you could have said constructive and repetitive. =)

Truth is they are sort of silly rules and another truth is I used to spend many summers umpiring 8-year-old girls who were playing this very game. The truth tends to stand on its own. Not all truths are sunshine and lollipops, but can be the truth nonetheless.
Dec. 8, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
I find it funny that the only time some folks post is to blast someone else. So Gary has an opinion and you don't like it. His opinion about a sport that you do not like or agree with is not a opportunity to question his personal being. Some are getting carried away here. Love the game all you want, but there are things that need correcting. JMO
Dec. 8, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
256 posts
Pricer......It is not the opinions that many respond to but the way he demeans others when he responds. I believe it is intentional to demean on his part to solicit a negative response. An example in this thread....he says that he doesn't use a cell phone and is implying that people do because they are full of themselves....there are many many more examples.

I believe his purpose on here is to try to get under others skin.

A troll.
Dec. 8, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
pricer, as I read comments about Gary19 and his "opinions", most are "opinions" being expressed by the other posters. Not any different.

You may be right about things needing correction, but you left out things that need to remain as they are. Two sides to every coin.

Gary19, you bring up a good point about your parents and cell phones. However, I would certainly want my Mom and or Dad to have one while out driving or traveling. Safey alone would dictate that. Or common sense.
Dec. 8, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
No I did not not mention things that need to stay the same. My reason for doing that is that is what I & others feel are based on opinions as well.
Dec. 8, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
E4, to anyone who wants one, fine. Just as long as they aren't using it while they are driving anywhere near me. At least 75% of the time I see someone doing something idiotic on the road they are on the phone.

As far as my parents, they lived a combined 159 years and counting without one and seem to be doing fine so far.

cal, in many cases cellphones are for the self-absorbed. Just watch how many are on one in their car, or in an elevator, or a restaurant, on walking down a crowded street. Or, for God's sake, in the bathroom stall. I do't need to hear their inane conversation.

Unless their patient is coding, that is just not necessary.
Dec. 8, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
well glad your parents feel safe if 10-20 miles from anything,with no way to contact someone if something should go wrong.......
Dec. 8, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Let's make sure someone gets the last word (dig) in!
Dec. 8, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
What did your parents do back in the day, pup? Or your grandparents? Were they all found dead on the side of the road? Contrary to popular belief, the lack of a cellphone is not a death wish. I am willing to bet more bad things happen from morons talking or texting while driving than driving without one.

And if that was all cellphones were used for, fine? I just got done standing behind a self-absorbed knucklehead at McDonald's who was too busy with his phone to be ready to place his order, get his money ready, or move over so I could order. Happens waaaaaaaay too much!
Dec. 9, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
I admit to sitting here just cracking up. I wondered where this thread would go if I started it. I thought of several different directions it might go, but NEVER in my wildest thoughts did I think it would turn into a technology debate about cell phones.
Truth is also I agree 100% with Gary on this. I never had a cell phone until my employer hung one on me. To this day I cringe when I pay the bill for mine, but my wife believes very strongly as we get older we need one. Who am I to argue? I think we should all have a phone jammer, though to carry and jam the phones of these kids that text and drive. I almost got hit the other day again by one of those.
Dec. 9, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Do phone jammers really exist? If so, sign me up!!! =)

Dec. 9, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
395 posts
Cell phone jammers do exist, and do work well. If only they could come up with an internet jammer for use on the same kind of self-absorbed knuckleheads on the internet as the cell phone self-absorbed ones that irritate so many! Would those be considered "special jammers"? I'd guess not, most likely in the "treasured or revered" category...............
Dec. 9, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Some of you need to seperate your personal feelings for other members, and stay on topic.
Dec. 9, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
That's okay. Tool, errrrrr curveball, just has thie obsession.
Dec. 9, 2011
tg69
294 posts
OK.Lets get back on the topic.Just to be totally honest,I cant quote the CR rule.Does anywhere in it say you can only use a courtesy runner for an INJURED player? If not,where is the problem.I agree teams use it mostly for speed but as long as its not breaking a rule,why not.In Utrip and NSA its the last out, which works well but you can only use one per inning which is not the case in senior ball so thats not the answer either.LAST WORD NEXT
Dec. 9, 2011
tg69
294 posts
Sorry,wrong tread
Dec. 9, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
You just gave the answer. You can have both last out runs, and more than one per inning. The first runner is the most recent out, the second is the second most recent out. Not difficult at all, and will cutback on a lot of the running just because someone is .1 of a second faster than the guy on base.

I would like to expand this to disqualify outfielders or middle infielders from being run for, for the obvious reasons. But I know that is asking for waaaay too much. So let's go with what was said in the first paragraph.
Dec. 10, 2011
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
C'mon Gary, you can't be that specific that "no outfielder or (now) middle infielders can be run for". There are so many exceptions that would make such a rule onerous.

Example 1: You're down to 9 healthy guys because of injuries, so your least injured player (hamstring tweaked) goes in to play second base as other guys shift around a bit. No range, but better than a hole there. Needs a runner every time he's at bat.

Example 2: One of my fielders was close to heat exhaustion on a blistering day, so we parked him in right field to finish the game out (last of the day). It worked! I pitched all inside and no one hit to right. You bet we ran for him when he luckily got to first on a long ball through the gap.

Example 3: You're playing a weak team and one of your outfielders is cramping up big time. He plays in right center and the other fielders shift to cover most of his field. He can't run, but gets a walk, and you put in a CR for him.

And on and on. Same problem with making it a rule that the last out runs—might be a crippled player. Nope, despite its flaws, there is a need for a legitimate courtesy runner in senior ball and once it's allowed, managers will substitute whenever they think they can gain an advantage and have the healthy non-winded players to do it.
Dec. 10, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Omar, those are exceptions to the rule. But what Gary in saying, if the position players mentioned are talented enough to play them, they should need no runners. What would be the problem with this senario?
Dec. 10, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
both of those exceptions are flawed,i play both the OF(only when i have to tho) and the INF,and guess what i'm not the fastest guy around,but do read the batter and the ball very good.i can be moving most of the time when the batter is just making contact with the ball,so i can get to balls that some faster guys don't get to,and always get the "hey you move pretty good for a biggen".my coach runs for me all the time b/c of not being the fastest(i don't like it,but he is the coach).so not all of these positions have fast guys,maybe they are good at anticipating where a ball is gonna be hit....
Dec. 10, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Nit picking. The bottom line, if your an everyday outfielder on a tourney team, you can run for yourself. Period! Next!!!!
Dec. 10, 2011
stick8
1238 posts
AI33 that's an interesting dialouge about cell phones. In case of an emergency while driving it seems having access to a cell phone would be a sensible thing for everyone. Every day it seems we're getting more and more technologically advanced to a point where we take many of these gadgets for granted. Does it ever make you wonder how the generations before us ever got along without have the luxury of cell phones and other gadgets?
Dec. 10, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Pricer and G19 up in a tree K.I.S.S.I.N.G....
Dec. 10, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Toolboy, do you bring anything constructive to the table? You sound like a little girl! Grow the F up, for your own sake!!!!!
Dec. 10, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Toolboy, do you bring anything constructive to the table? You sound like a little girl! Grow the F up, for your own sake!!!!!
Dec. 10, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
nit picking pricer,no....one of my OF'ers on my team has a replaced knee,but still plays out there.there are a lot of guys who play these positions as they did when younger and had mobility,now they rely on getting a jump on the ball just to keep it from being a gapper on them instead of actually catching them...they don't come in and catch the short fly ball anymore as they can't get in to it.this all comes with age and having bad legs,but they have willingness to play these positions,so no don't put restrictions on what positions can have a CR...... and by the way i do not like the CR rule either,but i do live with it as it is a necessary evil to me.....
Dec. 10, 2011
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
Pricer, Gary is not big on exceptions to rules...in fact, he doesn't like so many new rules!:=) I was just objecting to his blanket statement that anyone playing the outfield or SS or 2B must automatically be able to run for himself because of the position he plays. Not so. There are many exceptions. mad dog gave you a couple just on one team. Made me remember that I played on a team two years ago where an outfielder who also played shortstop had two knee replacements. He never ran for himself once getting on base because of the additional wear and tear on his artificial knees. We wanted to keep him healthy as long as possible.
Dec. 10, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
If you are hurt, you are hurt, and that is fine. BUT, if you are healthy enough to even attempt to cover one-friggin-fourth of an outfield (plus, backing up your teammates), just extreme common sense tells you that you can run 65 feet.

Just another case of abusing a rule that might have at one time had good intentions but has been terribly misused.
Dec. 10, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
118 posts
mad dog is right knee replacements,people with health issues like diabetes,maybe back is a little stiff,so what if you put a runner in to give them a break even a slower runner.a hot 99 degree day in humid weather maybe playing five games that day it will where your outfielders out.so put on your special shoes and put a runner in.
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