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Discussion: Out of the box idea for "courtesy runners"

Posted Discussion
Dec. 20, 2011
jfsully
13 posts
Out of the box idea for "courtesy runners"
A unique, serious unemotional idea on “courtesy runners”?

How about all players needing “courtesy runners” are designated before the game. Each individual requiring a “courtesy runner” shall be assigned a permanent runner BEFORE THE GAME.

Each assigned "courtesy runner" may be assigned to only one person in the lineup.

An assigned “courtesy runner” may NOT be used as a pinch runner for any other base-runner.

A player could only pinch run once per game.

(If you used a “rabbit” as a “courtesy runner”, he/she would be unable to pinch run in a crucial situation.)

If a player is injured during a game and unable to run, he/she may be assigned a "courtesy runner" for the remainder of the game or a new pinch runner each at bat.

This would keep the original purpose of the "courtesy runner" rule as well as negating overuse of the rule and, as importantly,the overuse of "rabbits" every inning. Managers would need to strategically set batting line-ups and decide whether to save their fastest runners for true crucial pinch running situations.

Thoughts?

Dec. 21, 2011
Paco13
363 posts
2 much thought put into a very simple issue. Some players due perhaps to injury or due to other circumstances are not as fast anymore but they can still hit...So us that are blessed and still very healthy do not mind running for them. Personally, I enjoy running get more exercise than just running for myself. My team is very fortunate that we have 6 or 7 guys that can run, Of the seven I am probably the slowest one and I run very well. All of the Teams have the same option, so what is the big deal...Why can all enjoy the game. SENIOR BALL PLAYERS HAVE TO MANY ISSUES.
Dec. 21, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Courtesy runners should be abolished, or, at the very least, curtailed ... It has gone far beyond its intention.
Dec. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Paco, just because some guy is "not as fast" is NO reason to give him a runner. That is still an abuse of the rule. Legimately injured? Okay. Not as fast? No way.

Oh, and the big deal is besides being a horrible abuse of the rule it slows the game down. For every team with rabbits ready to run there are 10 who waste time making the change for no "courteous" reason.

19 has it right.
Dec. 21, 2011
Paco13
363 posts
OK. Get rid off it. No problem here. I will still do what I do. Personally, if I get to the point that I am on a team just to hit...get to 1st base or 2nd and have a CR. I will find something else to do, I do not see how can that be any fun, but I guess for those that do it, they still get some satisfaction out of it, so who am I to tell them that they can no longer play the sport that they still enjoy. As long as they want to play and I can be there to CR for them I will do it. STAY THIRSTY MY FRIEND.
Dec. 21, 2011
garyheifner
349 posts
My team has 2 men who can't run only walk. After 10 years of being with the team and dozens of championships, if the CR is abolished do you really think we will send them packing. We now have 2 19s who are clueless. The CR rule is the only way they can continue to play.
Dec. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Fine Gary. So have the last out run for them.

Objections? Serves your purpose.
Dec. 21, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
266 posts
The courtesy runner as is, is fine. It allows more people to be apart of the game. When you have 13 or 14 players there, everybody gets to contribute more. It is fair for both sides, let it stand as is.
Dec. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I am sure it will stay as is, but can it at least be renamed to something much more accurate? There is no courtesy involved with how it is being used these days.
Dec. 21, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
garyheifner ... must you resort to name-calling? ... differences of opinion are what makes the world go 'round ... your opinion is no better, nor worse, than anyone else's ... perhaps as a new year's resolution you should strive for tolerance ... No need to be rude for your entire life.
Dec. 21, 2011
SSUSA Staff
1123 posts
We've printed the various threads re: Courtesy Runners and they are in the SSUSA Rules Committee file for consideration and possible action at the SSUSA Annual Convention in Mesquite, NV, in December, 2012. Thank you for your comments.

Dec. 21, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
259 posts
Calling you guys clueless is name calling, really. Rule is not going to change. Find another game if you don't like the one we play, no one is forcing anyone to play this game most of us love.
Dec. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Ah yes, love it or leave it. Not exactly an enlightened approach. But very typical.
Dec. 21, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
from reading the various threads on CRs I thought an overwhelming majority of those commenting are in favor of the CRs remaining as is---but then I do wear corrective lenses and they might be outdated!!
Dec. 21, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Get that whip out Gary, beat this horse until he cant move.
What do you see as a "typical" approach to this idea? The idea of loving something or moving on to something more enlightening, is a very correct and novel method of approach.
"Typical" would be the way you approach every subject that has to do with change in senior softball. Nor is it enlightening, in fact it has become incredibly boring, at least to me.



Dec. 21, 2011
Olden Slow
Men's 65
173 posts
Never heard anyone say to the ump " may I have a courtesy runner "...usually it's just " Runner blue? ". I play and run because I can and I want to. No ulterior motive..
Dec. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
The "typical" was not to this idea, but to his approach. Love this game, play it like it is, and shut up. Or go start your own association. THAT is what has become typical.

Olden, when the rule first started at least around here you had to ask the other team if someone could run, and why. THAT is where the "courtesy" came in. And unless you only run for guys who truly need one, your ulterior motive is to replace a slower guy with a faster one no matter the health of the guy coming out.
Dec. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Fine, fine, fine..... I just started out replying to Paco, and this mushroomed.
Dec. 21, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Gary has it ever crossed your mind that the majority likes the game the way it is, and doesnt need to be reminded of the evolution Senior Softball has seen?.

You have every right to express your opinions. But they usually come across as being condesending and trite.

I'm sure you mean well, however sometimes, well most times it seems you are talking down to the thread/board, and not talking to us.

Dec. 21, 2011
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
#19, we have several guys on our team ( the one you are on) that can't run, period. All that would end up for us is a double play.Your thoughts.
BTW...Merry Christmas !
Dec. 21, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
jfsully, good thread. But it seems whenever someone feels something they feel is needed/help/lazy is threatened, they resort to shutup and go home or we the majority. Well, if it wasn't for the folks the majority like to bash, this board would just suck. Hardly no one post anything that gets responses on their post unless these so called trouble makers respond. Is it just me or is fact?
Dec. 21, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Pricer you are right on one level, but "The Majority" doesnt need a Miken taken to their heads to get the point(s) being made.
We know what we like and dont need to be told that we shouldnt like it. Which in essence is what is being said.
Not all that difficult to understand. IMO
Dec. 21, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
259 posts
I love it for one month if the so called trouble makers didn't resposne to every thread we have on here and see if the tone changes, month is a little long, let's try one week and see.
Dec. 21, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
pricer I started a thread "Fortunate" and it has quite a few posts--in fact you posted on it four times --seems everyone was pretty much in agreement---now you post on this thread that only "troublemakers" keep threads alive--I think "fortunate" disproves your statement
Dec. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
JB,

A) I haven't posted in probably 90% of the threads on here, so to say "if the so called trouble makers didn't resposne to every thread we have on here" is asinine.

B) Why is someone who disagrees a "trouble maker"? And I know Pricer used that term first, but with provocation from the alleged majority. Silly, and again asinine.

Steve, exceptions don't prove anything. Has it been that long since you took a science or math class?
Dec. 21, 2011
DCPete
232 posts
Why should a player with a bad shoulder who can run but can't hit be treated any differently than a player with a bad knee who can hit but can't run???
Dec. 21, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
DCPete please don't get Gary19 going with his same old line "last out runs"
Gary math and/or science has little to do with you using the same arguments despite the majority going against you--you must be a politician since you only hear yourself talk--
SSUSA staff please remove courtesy runner threads as they appear--the same old argument is sooooooo boring not to mention unproductive
Dec. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner! Congrats Pete!!!!

Steve, care to tell us why my "same old line" won't work? Gives a runner to the guys who need one, and my guess is will cut down on the abuse. If all you really want is runners for guys who really can't (and who will be the first to admit that is NOT what most are actualy looking for?) then it works perfectly fine.

Maybe not, but they have a lot to do with showing you that exceptions don't prove rules.

Steve, you big on censorship? Let me help you out here, if you don't want to read something just skip it! Amazing concept if you give it a try. LOL
Dec. 21, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
Gary for perhaps the third time--team I played on only one of first 5 batters could run for themselves--so your last out -saves time theory is shot full of holes---sadly everyone is not 50 with good joints any longer so CRs are a way of life---read the threads Gary and yo uwill find the maiority want CRs and we live in a democracy where maiority rules
Dec. 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
No holes at all.

As I have said MANY more than 3 times, if the last out cannot run then it goes back to the previous out. What, you guys never have a guy after your first 5 who ever makes an out? Use him!

How do you guys play defense with so many guys who can't run? Those first 5 all catch or EH?

And, again for MANY more than just 3 times, who said you cannot have a CR. Let's just stop making a farce of the rule.
Dec. 21, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
It was never voted on or ever will be. If the time comes that the senior organizations say no more sb, that will be the end of them. You, I and the freakin marines won't change their minds.
Dec. 22, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
#6 ... most of our guys can run, they just can't run very fast ... courtesy runners were not originally meant to run for others who can't run fast.

Haven't heard from you in a while ... How are things going?

Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Again, spot-on post by "the other" 19!
Dec. 22, 2011
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
#19, Bob are we on the same team ? LOL.I am doing great. Throwing better than I have in years and been hitting ever since I was released.

See you soon.......practice in the cold !
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