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Discussion: For the guys who still play with the kids.......

Posted Discussion
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
For the guys who still play with the kids.......
How much do you dislike that experience since you cannot use the senior bats, don't have the mat, don't have the second home plate, and have to actually get three outs to earn your ups? Is it pretty miserable for you, not to have those things that I hear help to provide so much "fun"?
Dec. 22, 2011
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
OMG, why are you even here. If it's to be the most angry, bitter person on this forum, you have done a great job. Really, why are you here? If the kids next door throw a ball in your yard, you keep it. Don't you! Is this your ideal of "fun"?
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
No, not really. Just my idea of getting guys to think about why they value the changes to the game that have been made at the senior level. And how necessary are they really.
Dec. 22, 2011
tinman
Men's 50
75 posts
The "Kids" are using ASA bats that hit the ball farther than our senior bats and have middle wars chirping along the way.The senior game is so much better and I will continue to spend travel dollars to play it.We have great equipment and facilities.The tournaments are run well and the players are stand up guys.Local games can be fun under any circumstance costing a little gas money.
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
The ASA bats are not hitting the ball further, their youth and associated strength are. Let's not kid ourselves.

And give the kids credit, they actually have to record 3 outs in the field and earn their ups.
Dec. 22, 2011
Paco13
374 posts
I actually play more with the flat bellies than Senior ball. So the adjustment for me is Senior ball. The team have to remind me to go to outside back coming into home. A nicely broken in/up Utrip bats is almost as good as a Senior bat. Personally I like the idea of having to get 3 outs, the mat issue; a lot of tourneys are using the mat just as in senior ball and some even have the orange bag on 1st. So with the exeption of the Senior bat and the second bag on home plate there is not a lot of difference. yes these kids are in amazing shape and can hit the heck out of the ball regardless if they are hitting with glass bats or not. So in general there is not a lot of difference other than the attitudes and Senior players have plenty of attitudes also. Senior ball has to have more safety implemented due to our age...body parts do not heal as fast and they are not readily available. My 2 centavos. STAY THIRSTY MY FRIEND.

Wagon I can play 55 next fall. Hint, Hint. Feliz Navidad my friend.
Dec. 22, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2696 posts
I disagree Gary, the "ASA" bats are hitting the ball further.
I took bp with a guy that used a "special" ASA bat. After hitting many in the 375' range I asked him to hit a senior bat and he did, although the shots with the senior bat were only in the 360' range.
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Bruce, I take it we are not talking stock ASA bats.
Dec. 22, 2011
goforit
97 posts
I love playing against the kids whenever i get the chance. I play on three different senior teams (50,55 and 60's) in the summer and then try to work in a few games against the kids. I love seeing the look on their faces when the "old" men kick their butts. To me it does not matter what bat i'm using, whether the ball goes 350" or 321" (our fences are 320" all around)its all the same. It's the game that counts, i enjoy having to get three outs since our "old" man team seems to play better defense and we are smarter hitters (not always trying to hit everything as hard as we can). Gary, sorry you think that just because we choose senior softball we can't enjoy the game on other levels.

John
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
John, that was a tongue-in-cheek question. I know you can. My point was that the kids' rules, the rules we basically grew up with, work quite well so why the need for the wholesale changes. The changes I referred to above have nothing to do with age, just more with quirks that are in senior ball for some reason.
Dec. 22, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 65
264 posts
Gary, I play senior ball, co-ed and men's D ball with the youngesters and have fun playing all three. Have to use different bats but no big deal. It is more fun to hang with the senior group, it is easier to relate to my our year group. Still fun to hang with the younger group and see their faces when the find out they the lost to a 60 something.
Dec. 22, 2011
tg69
311 posts
Its me again,LAST WORD,Its kinda like this.I dont really agree with all the rules of the game but I dont sit at home and WHINE about them. I go play anyway. I played in 15 senior tourneys last year and had a great time doing it,even with their rules.I usualy play with the young guys on weekends that Im not with the old guys and have just as much fun with them so my advise to you is play,have fun,use a U-TRIP bat and run for yourself for you never can tell if this will be your last day to wake up on the SUNNY SIDE. When I leave I want to go out a PLAYER and not a WHINER./////LAST WORD
Dec. 22, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
Gary you do realize that Jesus birthday is right around the corner---God gave us a brain to think with. I keep reading the threads and your comments come up often and despite what you are saying you are prepared to come back from a different angle if someone responds differently than how you think.
So lets try to put this in as simple a form as can be.
the answer is simple MONEY
why do they make more cars there are easily more on the lots than people to drive them---why are more and bigger houses built?? again there are enough empty house to satisfy the market--
go back to wooden bats I used more wood bats with screws and tape holding them together than what bats I now have---the markey went from wood to aluminum and they lasted really good--hence not enough market so they come up with composite--they ---as you say--hit the ball farther (I do not agree with this) but have not much lastability--hence money once again makes the world go round!!! this thinking holds true for almost anything except the CRs and I know that the Associations got together and said lets install CRs just to aggravate Gary19--so now you have the real reason so get over it
Dec. 22, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
Have agood laugh guys it is my christmas gift to you
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
JB, no doubt at our age it is socially different playing with kids younger than mine.

Steve, nothing at all to get over. I was just legitimately curious how the guys who profess undying love for the current senior game manage to have any enjoyment playing with the archaic kids' rules.

How do they tolerate umps who call balls and strikes (incorrectly, of course, if you believe many on here) and real plays at home plate? How do they survive staying on the field until they actually record three outs before they get to go in and try to have fun using inferior bats? Must be misery.
Dec. 22, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
Gary--I played in two different senior leagues and a church league (ages 16 to 65) two different travel teams and must honestly say the best competition was in the travell tourneys---in the church league one team would freeze then microwave the balls to get an edge--in two of the three leagues we could not use senior bats and I saw as many hit out of the park as in the league where senior bats were used-
the umpires missed about the same amount of calls no matter where the game was--but the "bad" calls seemed equally distributed--
so you have nothing to get over--why then do you go from CRs to senior bats to now umpires and the number of outs --apparently you don't like the 5 run rule either---I am starting to think you are just a bitter old man with huge chips on your shoulders

Dec. 22, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Looks to me like your theory has holes in it Gary. EVERYONE who posted that plays with the kids, enjoys playing their game, and why shouldnt we? Its still softball.
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Not exactly a "theory" E4, but truly a question. If they seem to need special bats, mats, unnecessary home plates, and run limits to enjoy senior ball, then how could they enjoy the kids? Seems like with the kids they are missing out on a lot of the "essentials" to a good time.
Dec. 22, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Of course its only a theory, you have no concrete proof.
However the numbers dont lie. And if we didnt enjoy playing without Senior Bats we wouldnt be playing with the kids. When we do play with them its because we enjoy it. The bats just enhance our enjoyment.
There have been many posts that point out how hot and possibly altered the young guns bats are, in most cases they are actually hotter then the Senior Bats.
Bottom line is,
Different organizations have different rules, when you dont like it dont play.

It all seems quite simple. Unless you like to piss and moan just to be pissing and moaning. Which now and then seems to be the case.
Dec. 22, 2011
Olden Slow
Men's 65
182 posts
I play with kids, old guys and just about anyone who will let me. I figure that I play ...follow the rules and adapt to any changes. Don't really think about all the extra stuff. Just play and enjoy the fact that I can still play. No whining allowed, if folks don't like the rules...Don't friggin play..Kind of like golf...you almost always have LOCAL RULES...Tee it up and enjoy the day..
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Hence, I asked a QUESTION!

Would trampolines under the basket enhance your enjoyment of playing basketball?

I know some of the kids' bats are altered, NO one knows what percentage. Just like NO one knows what percentage of senior bats also are. I have played senior teams with a dozen bats in the dugout, and for some strange reason they were all using the "lucky" one.

Dec. 22, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
I'll post the rules tell me who they apply to
1.) Offensive ejection if you hit the ball over the fence yet you can still play defense when your slot comes to bat automatic out
2.) If you hit the ball over the fence it is a run for the other team. Hit a second two runs etc etc
3.) Runners only I think they are called rabbits or base burglars forget the term sorry
4.) Automatic out if you hit the ball over the fence
5.) Hit the ball within a circle painted around the pitcher umpires discretion you are out.
6.) Special bats for one association and special bats for the other
7.) Bat testing machines

Gary19 and Pricer what say you
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Are these a set of rules for one group, or do you mean to respond to each rule individually?
Dec. 22, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
One more thing if you did play with the kids, seriously played, you would run screaming back to the senior game because the kids game has been bastardized to the point of no return. One last thing real story played against some kids and got introduced to the swinging bunt. Fun to watch actually. Kid was hitting in the 3 hole. My team made a defensive switch to pinch in the 3B and SS to cut off the bunt, he hits a lazer past the pitcher as he's running down the 1B line he's yelling at the pitcher and IF to play straight up or he keeps ripping through the box. How much fun is that.
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I know they can be dicks. But I have played and watched enough lately to know that is still the exception. Doesn't make it right at all, but at least what I have seen it is not an epidemic.

I am not saying playing with prima donna, or just dumb, kids is more fun. Point was we could keep the rules we grew up with, for the most part, and still have fun and be very competitive.
Dec. 22, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Gary the rules I posted above are from the 3 or 4 major organizations. You keep talking about the way it used to be, it doesn't exist anymore anywhere. They all have bastardized the rules some more than others. The kids have adapted by shaving the bats to hit through 5 man defenses, they take "dirty swings", you see swinging bunts, larger gloves. It's different everywhere. The tradeoff for the 3 outs, 2 bases, safety plates etc would probably be some of the rules I posted above. The genie is out of the bottle.
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Seriously, thanks for intelligent discourse. I see what you are saying, and understand that.

I just keep thinking we could keep the senior game we have, reduce the bats which would/could eliminate the need for the pitcher's box and run limits. The idea of defensively sucking and then still getting to go and hit is absurd.

Might bats get shaved? Sure. Are they now? Who really is naive enough to think that isn't happening?

I can live with the second home plate, though still don't understand why sliding into a catcher who is facing the runner is more dangerous than sliding into an infielder who most likely isn't.

Keep the mat, I suppose, but it is too large. You will never get that large of a landing area without the mat that will be called a strike, and the idea of one strike zone fitting all is just wrong. Guys 5'6" and 6'6" should not have the same size zone.

But again, great posts.
Dec. 22, 2011
tg69
311 posts
Again, one question.Do you think seniors should not draw social security or is that too special for you? Hitting the middle is the reason all the young teams are playing the five man,to keep their pitcher from getting egotized.LAST WORD
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Wow, what a weird/bad analogy/question! Well, since they paid into this forced retirement system for decades, sure. Now back to intelligent conversation.

Want to know how to at least help control that (nothing will probably stop it)? Don't hit back at an innocent bystander (the team's pitcher), but kick the ass of the first guy who you are convinced did it with bad intent (the key being convinced, the middle is a legitimate part of the field for basehits. Any pitcher who doesn't believe that should find a new position, or a new hobby).

If I am sucker-punched in a bar, I don't go after the guy's friends. I go after him.
Dec. 22, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
tg69 I could be wrong on this but every young team I know plays the 5 man because they cannot or are severely limited with balls over the fence. I've never heard of a 5 man to protect the pitcher. Most of the kids I know are very adept at pounding the 5-6 and 3-4. The bats are shaved not for distance but for speed through the reduced infield hitting areas.
Dec. 22, 2011
Paco13
374 posts
Lecak, At least in the Tidewater area VA, one of the reasons if not the main the reason why the Kids use the 5 men is to try to protect the pitcher. Of course there are a lot of other advantages as we all know. As many of U already stated there is not that much of a difference betwen playing with the Kids and Senior ball. At the end of the day still softball. FELIZ NAVIDAD Y PROSPERO a~O NUEVO.
Dec. 22, 2011
tg69
311 posts
Now back to intelligent conversation.You say the middle is just part of the playing field but kick a guys aaa for hitting there.Intelligent conversation.Could you carry on an intelligent conversation in a water bucket? I think not.I would bet there a 95% chance that if SSUSA changed all the rules to suit you that you could find plenty more things to WHINE about.LAST WORD
Dec. 22, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
Jeff Dunham has Walter, Pawn Stars has Chumlee, Whoville has the Grinch and the SSUSA message board has Gary 19. This board is supposed to be a place where senior softball players can discuss softball with others who share their love and enthusiasm for the game.It's a place where we can exchange information, gain knowledge and talk with old friends and make new friends. It's supposed to be a positive experience.

Most threads on this board have become little more than a platform for Gary 19's hypocrisy, sarcasm, negativity, and provocative disparagement of other players and the game of senior softball. Lately, there have been several very positive threads on this board. Gary 19 did not comment, because he has nothing positive to say.

When the staff banned Einstein, there seemed to be an increase in the number of new members getting involved. The tone was much more positive and informative. The staff could take back the board and make it about softball again instead of Gary 19. They've done it before.

If the staff won't take action, the rest of us can. Simply don't respond to anything he says. Merry Christmas Everyone Hombre
Dec. 22, 2011
the wood
1087 posts
HOMBRE:
I have read several of your posts with great interest. You have a real knack for putting your perspectives in words that have sound meaning for many of us.
I hope to meet you at some future event. Please let me know the next time your team will be playing in the southwest.
My email address is awtgroupsc@aol.com.
Thanks,
Bob Woodroof
Dec. 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
tg, let me help you (again). I said that would ONLY apply if he had bad intent and you were certain of it. Perhaps not the easiest thing to ascertain, but other than that correct the middle is most certainly a part of the field.

hombre, "most" threads on this board never had a post from me, and never will. A little truth, please.

Dec. 22, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Woody, are you up to coming out for an impromtu practice with the Mustangs? We will be at Peralta at 10am on the 31st. If Peraltas not available we will be at Villa Park High Schools JV fields.
Dec. 22, 2011
the wood
1087 posts
John, are you asking me to take BP with you on New Year's Eve? I've done dummer things...
Email the details and we'll see... Yes, I'm now up and at 'em...
:-)
BW
Dec. 22, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Not technically New Years Eve, but yes, we are taking some BP and doing some fielding Sat Dec 31st. "Doc" said it was a great idea. =)

See my previous post for time and place(s)
Dec. 22, 2011
the wood
1087 posts
I glossed over the T & P... my fault!
Peraulta? If this one is taken there is another option 2-3 miles east on Santa Ana Cyn Road (Eucalyptus Park). Other than the occasional World Cup hopefuls it is usually empty (single diamond).
Doc thinks it's a good idea? I don't ever recall him giving that high an endorsement for something w/o sugar and flour.
I'll let you know for sure next week. Thanks for thinking of me.
:-)
BW
Dec. 22, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
We leave a trail of Krispy Kreme jelly filled for Doc to follow and find us. Hasnt missed yet. =)
Dec. 22, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
I'll post the rules tell me who they apply to
1.) Offensive ejection if you hit the ball over the fence yet you can still play defense when your slot comes to bat automatic out
2.) If you hit the ball over the fence it is a run for the other team. Hit a second two runs etc etc
3.) Runners only I think they are called rabbits or base burglars forget the term sorry
4.) Automatic out if you hit the ball over the fence
5.) Hit the ball within a circle painted around the pitcher umpires discretion you are out.
6.) Special bats for one association and special bats for the other
7.) Bat testing machines

1)usssa,asa has it as inning ending
2)nsa did that
3)isa does that and asa allows stealing
4) asa,usssa,depends on the div,also ssusa does it,in actuality all assoc do it for certain divs.
5) no one for champ play that i know of,but a lot of leagues do it.
6)senior ball,asa,usssa/nsa/isa.looks like 3 different bat specs
7)usssa,with others looking at it.....

i think i got them lecak,since you rcvd no answer

to me i have fun playing regardless of what equipment i use,in fact just played with the kids last weekend at the BLD park in mansfield,tx.it was usssa rules,i used my syn-2 or a utrip bat.what i like the umps inspected the bats at the beginning of the game and they went into a barrel and had to stay there for the whole game.oh i led our team in batting avg......
Dec. 22, 2011
ShaneV
Men's 55
382 posts
Let's start full contact senior football to keep us busy in the off season, November through February, with pads & helmets of course! Who's in???

ShaneV
Dec. 22, 2011
ShaneV
Men's 55
382 posts
You're not going to believe this! Just had a thought, searched it, and found this!!!

http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Am-A-Sociopath/42740/forum

ShaneV
Dec. 22, 2011
GSWP001
Men's 60
74 posts
Hey Shane, come and play doubles raquetball with us. You'll get contact and hit with the ball also. Makes you learn to be quicker.

Dave P.
Dec. 22, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
GSWP001, so full contact raquetball,been there done that....LOL......
Dec. 22, 2011
ShaneV
Men's 55
382 posts
I played tons of raquetball in college, just to stay in shape, got pretty good at it. Tried to get back in to it a couple years ago, almost killed me! My off season workouts are mostly with a chainsaw. Having a sit-down job I have to get outside on the weekends, regardless of the weather. Burning is really my passion. There's just something about a nice hot fire out in the woods on a cold December day. One of these days I'm going to do some experimenting with an earth-oven. My ancient ancestors must have been some serious meat eaters. When I read (Clan of the Cave-Bear) about cooking ptarmigans or a whole cave-bear in an earth-oven I was droolin'!

ShaneV
Dec. 25, 2011
neck10
505 posts
gary 19 most of us who still play young ball either eh or pitch catch or play first base it is kinda nice when the pitcher throws a strike and the ump bails you out ,most of us use the runner so we dont have to deal with any kind of contact on the bases & remember the ones who still play with the kids are the better ones from the senior leauge's
Dec. 25, 2011
coop3636
58 posts
I still play "kids" tournament ball just about every weekend I am not playing senior ball.
I pitch against the youngsters and have a blast doing it. Maybe its just in my mind, but I still feel I can play with the youngsters. (Im 51 and play/ pitch with Monsters (majors)out of TN)
The best thing is that I get to play on the same team as my son. That makes it worth it if nothing else.
I am not a power hitter so it doesn't matter to me if I use the u trip bat or the senior bat.
The only bad thing I see about the kids ball is that some of the youngsters dont have the heart that the older guys do. I try to tell them that ANYONE can hustle whether you have talent or not.
Brett

PS. Most of the bats the kids use nowadays are shaved and just as hot as the senior bats.....
Dec. 25, 2011
coop3636
58 posts
GSWP001...
Where are you from? Maybe if we play in the same tourney we can get a few r-ball games in.
Would be fun
Brett
Dec. 25, 2011
Joncon
289 posts
Gary is not the hottest bat in the bag huh?



""""If they seem to need special bats, mats, unnecessary home plates, and run limits to enjoy senior ball, then how could they enjoy the kids?"""


1. No one NEEDS any of these things to enjoy the game. I don't care if is a mush ball and wood bats. If everyone is competing and having fun, I'm in. The kids game is just as much fun as the senior game and visa versa.

2. YOU are the one trying to make wholesale changes. These senior rules have been in place since before your coming of age. Maybe you should simply accept it and play ball?
Dec. 25, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Joncon, I am with you on that, but it is not the impression I get from the general population on here.

All I am thinking is to go to how the game was played, and is still for the most part played by those under 50. Most of the modifications made have no real reason, other than they have been there forever. Just not much of a reason to me.

Dec. 25, 2011
GSWP001
Men's 60
74 posts
coop3636. Thanks for the offer. I'm in olympia, WA. Where are you at? There a about 4 or 5 of us that play and are always willing to get a match.

Dave
Dec. 26, 2011
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
Gary...Rules change all the time and will continue to do so in all divisions...There is nothing wrong with that ...It is the nature of "Human" games. I stopped playing with the young guys last year at the age of 60. The "Senior" game for me is outstanding, the players make it so.....
Why do you object so strongly to everything that you feel is a change? Change happens all the time...YOU can't be upset all the time ...Are you???
Dec. 26, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Mainly because I don't see what purpose many of the changes have, and what they add to the game. The senior bats cause a lot more than they add. The mat is just unnecessary, and really perverts the strike zone. The second home plate makes no sense. We can slide into second and third, but somehow sliding into home is more dangerous??? Not really. The CR rule is terribly abused.

No, not upset all the time, not even "upset" now. I just haven't seen good reasoning for the above changes.
Dec. 26, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1993 posts
Gary, there is a big difference in sliding into second or third and sliding into home. You have to stop at second and third-you cannot overrun them without being at risk to be tagged out. You can overrun home without that risk. It isn't that sliding into one base is more dangerous than another, it can easily be avoided at home with the extra plate. It cuts down on those kamikazes that want to take out the catcher, and with the more brittle bones in senior ball, it is a good rule.
Dec. 26, 2011
ju25
Men's 55
149 posts
I'll take our game over the kids any day, and the biggest reason is respect. Respect for the game and for each other is what I enjoy about senior softball. The kids swing shaved bats which are superior to senior bats. We do not shoot the middle and start hooting about it. Most of us still play because we love the game and if you don't like the changes you should find something else to do. I have seen many changes in my 40 years of playing softball and although I don't agree with many of them I have adjusted because I love the sport.
Dec. 26, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
You have seen guys who want to take out the catcher for no reason? Maybe you have, but those same guys don't want to take out the infielders with a slide into second or third?
Dec. 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Ju25, I agree with you 100% about the respect factor in our game. But not with shaved bats being superior to senior bats, middle being out of play for seniors and if I don't like it I should find something else to do. In what walk of life is that acceptable?
Dec. 26, 2011
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
I guess that being in disagreement with someone is really not a problem. We are all entitled to our opinions. That being said.....There is no perfect game and yet we still play............Merry Christmas!!!!!!
Dec. 26, 2011
neck10
505 posts
try hitting middle in young mans game today if you want to start a riot.we were playing young ball this summer one of our guys went middle,pitcher just started screaming at me.I had never seen the guy play softball before,the pitcher has played with him in another leauge for three years.not to mention I got hit three times in first inning(my fault no reflexes)one kid told me thats what you told me when I was on your little leauge team dont worry about where it's going just hit it hard.I did tell him that but it was 18 yrs ago
Dec. 26, 2011
Joncon
289 posts
"""I don't see what purpose many of the changes have, and what they add to the game.""""


I can explain it very simply. You may not agree but you should be able to understand.

1) When the hot bats (Ultra) came to the market, people thought "holy schnikey, I can really hit the snot out of the ball".

After a couple of years,most organizations banned them but the consensus in senior play was to keep using them. The associations listened to the players who had purchased these bats and like using them.

As far as the bat issue, that's it. It's simple. A majority of the players like them. Will the special bats ever go away? I don't know or care. What I don't understand is why it bother you so much?

2) A few umps HATE the mat. They seem to take it as a personal insult but, this game is for the PLAYERS. The ump is there for our benefit. Overall, the mat may not be perfect but a piece of rubber doesn't have to concentrate and make tough decisions. Again, most of the players prefer the mat and that's why it is used.

If I was an ump, I would love it because it would be one less thing for the players to whine about. If they complain about a strike or ball, I would say "talk to the mat".

3) The second home plate prevents collisions. It doesn't prevent them at 2nd or 3rd, but it prevents them at home and that takes away 1/3 of the slioding/collision injuries. It does make the play at the plate easier but this is a high scoring hitters game so we can afford that.

4) The CR rule simply allows some of our broken down players to still play the game. It also allows those who may have suffered a marginal injury to keep playing without possibly seriously hurting themselves.

5) You didn't address the 5 run cap but I assume you don't like that either. Many times a game is won or lost in a single inning. Youve seen it countless times.

In a straight up sporting competition to see who is best, there isn't a need to limit runs but senior ball is geared more toward PLAYING rather than winning. The 5 run cap simply keeps an ining from getting out of hand.

Generally, we would rather go out and play 6 games on the weekend and lose the tourney than play 3 games and win. The score is important but it's not the reason we do this. I think that most of us have enough tshirts and plastic trophies.



Now you can say you disagree with the senior rules but you can't say you don't understand them.

1) Old guys like to hit ball far
2) Mat reduces old guys arguements
3) Old guys like playing but hurts to run.
4) Two old guys crash at plate bad
5) Old guys like playing many innngs

Dec. 26, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
1) The bats don't bother me, per se, as much as the many rules that have been put in to accommodate them. They add no value, other than to boost the egos of guys who can now do with them what they weren't 30 years ago, and fail to realize how much they have caused the game to change.

2) When were "most of the players" asked to see what they really think of the mat? You could be right that most prefer them, for reasons completely unbeknownest to me, but seriously we have no idea what percentage really want the mat. To say otherwise is just a self-serving guess.

3) What collisions? If catchers position themselves properly, there would virtually be none. If they don't, whose fault is that? The catcher has the entire play in front of him, to get run into/over mainly falls on the catcher.

4) What about the guys with broken down arms? Why don't they get an accommodation? And using the last out to run still gives the broken down guys a chance without creating so much abuse of the rule.

5) No, the 5-run cap is asinine. The defense sucks, gives up 5 runs, and then gets to go hit. Absurd! So what if a game is lost in a single inning? Again, whose fault is that? So you wish you had that cap for the past 40 years, or however long you have been playing? God forbid we have to play "both sides of the ball" and earn what we get.


If senior ball is not for winning, why scores, standings, and the opportunity to buy your own rings?

Seriously, you (anyone) would rather play 6 and lose than 3 and win? Really? I think you are a good guy, seriously, but please don't ever be on my team.
Dec. 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
your team,what team is that,so far the couple of teams you have attempted to play with have dropped ya............

so what team are you talking about......
Dec. 26, 2011
boston
306 posts
I love playing with the kids. The game is faster and you actually have to play defense. The one thing I hate about the senior game is how lazy guys get playing defense and running the bases. When you get a hit with the kids you earned it. Seniors don't get to alot of balls in the IF or OF that they have to move to far,fast or quick to get to. With a team only being able to score 5 runs there is no need to hustle on Defense and outstanding defensive players are far from appreciated. Guys can make All-Tourney literally never picking up a glove or running past 1st base. Just play EH hit .900 run to 1st and get a pinchrunner. What the hell is that all about. Why even play the frigin game? As for the bats, senior bats are sweet no doubt. But, I use my USSSA bats quite frequently in senior ball (OG Freak and Rawlings Rush). I can hit just as hard and as far with them as a senior bat. I'm just a little guy at 5'11 and 175-180. In facy, I could never understand why guys 6'3"-6'6" and 210-280 need a frigin senior bat. What it makes you feel more manly to hit a ball 240'-260' rather than 210'-230'. You only have to hit it 301' for a home run. Never thought I would agree with Gary. Damn, I need a drink, Later and Happy New Year
Dec. 26, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
sad pup, sorry you couldn't comprehend, and once again let yourself get sidetracked. Apparently boston did not have any trouble following the bouncing ball.
Dec. 26, 2011
garyheifner
367 posts
Gary

You keep refering that our rules (senior ball)ruin the game and we must return it to its original state. You include yourself as part of we. I am sure I have seen some post that you don't even play on the tour or tournament team. Is that correct?????
If so, why would you keep trying to change a game that you are not a part of??????
Dec. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
The "tour"? Easy there, you aren't a member of the PGA or ATP.

I have played two years, the most recent in 2010. (A) It doesn't take 10 years of tournaments to see what is apparent and (B) wouldn't mind playing more if the senior game could improve upon some of the unnecessary changes that have been made to the real game, or at least the game we grew up playing.

Not necessarily saying it is "ruined", but I wouldn't mind a better explanation on why some of these senior rules are needed.
Dec. 27, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
I am beginning to think you just want to be the record holder of the most post category. or some old age is hitting you, your repeating yourself everyday.
Dec. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
All I do is respond to what is written to me. I am polite like that, you know. =)
Dec. 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1993 posts
That's not quite true, Gary. You respond to anyone that makes the mistake of mentioning one of the things you don't like in our game, whether you are addressed or not. Was I polite enough?
Dec. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Whose game is "our" game? I kind of think it was here before either of us, and will be long after.
Dec. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Oops, and yes you were very polite.
Dec. 27, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Nice to see the Grinch and his condesending attitude are in tact.

And yes, it is OUR game, as long as we are playing it, as it was those before us and will be for those who follow us.

Did you get a new Miken for Christmas Gary?

Or a new revised Gary19 unabashed rule book? =)
Dec. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Call me condesending if you like, for whatever reason, but at least I am not arrogant enough to think it is my game.

No, my current one is fine, at least for now. And, unfortunately, no new rule book. But I did get some Michigan t-shirts to work out in, so that was cool!

Dec. 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1993 posts
I didn't say mine, I said our-meaning every senior that plays it. I'm ready for the season to begin.
Dec. 27, 2011
stick8
1320 posts
Joncon,
One thing I would like to add is time limits. Since we mostly play 5 runs max per inning I'm OK with time limits for play-in games. For the bracket games there shouldn't be any time limits. Six innings plus the open inning should be across the board. I'd institute a mercy also.
Dec. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Still arrogant, just covering a broader group. I know you might not have meant it that way, but the game is the game, we just play it at the moment.

stick makes good points, since the early round games are just meaningless exhibitions the associations throw out as a bone to entice teams to come.
Dec. 27, 2011
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Grinch19 you know whats funny? Every REAL ball player knew what Webbie meant by the OUR game comment/post!
Dec. 27, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
Yes it is OUR game--heck I invented it with a little help from Al Gore while he was taking a break from inventing the internet. Gary would not understand that since he does not play th egame he just hides behind his wifes 14 HS letters---
Dec. 27, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Tool, tell us what real games you play. Where? With whom?

steve, (a) what makes you think I don't play? and (b) why do my wife's letters interest you so much? More than your entire family has? Bother you that I got an athlete, and you a .........? Well, you can describe her for us.
Dec. 27, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
you brought up on two seperate occassions about your wifes 14 letters--and your childrens athletic prowess but never your own that i have seen--you also have stated that you did not play any tournaments in 2011--as for my wife I do not have to defend her or use her--she is very accomplished on her own and there are several members on here that can attest to her looks and class--if you played any tournaments you might meet us but its your loss not ours
Dec. 28, 2011
garyheifner
367 posts
SSUSA Staff

Once again Gary19 has taken a thread to aburd levels that has nothing to do with senior softball. Isn't it time to delete this dribble???????
Dec. 28, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Where did I deviate from senior softball? My wife's high school letters? Steve brought that up first, you dope!
Dec. 28, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
Gary19 apparently you type and have no idea what you say--one of the first posts I read by you a few months ago you said your wife had 14 HS letters--another post on the same thread you brought your kids into the conversation something about your daughter being in medical school---since I do not know you how would i knowhow many letters your wife has and on a SENIOR SOFTBALL site why did you even bring her into the conversation--all I can figure, since you said you didn't play tourneys last year that you have nothing to live on of your own--I started a thread asking everyone what team they play for as I would like to know actual player posts from wanna be's
Dec. 28, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
What context was that in, Steve? Everything has a context.

So your only identity in life is the senior tournaments you play, and if I didn't play any than I must not have a life? Wow! All I can say is "Wow!" You sad SOB!
Dec. 28, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
I am inquiring to SSUSA staff as to where you live and your correct name--no one calls my mother that name---I have not said anything derogatory about you just that fact that you complain about soemthing constantly that yo udo not even participate in--
Dec. 28, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
You both need to lighten up just a little here! This is like the snowball running down hill. So much being taken out of context it's starting to border on the ridiculous.
Dec. 28, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Wow, thats uncalled for Gary!
Dec. 28, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
I merely pointed out things Gary has been saying himself in an effort to get him to lighten up---I play as many tournaments and suppost the hotels and restaurants whereever they are held and if anything want the game improved not torn apart by someone that says he played in no tournaments this past year--I inquired to SSUSA as to his name and where he lives--
Dec. 28, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
I merely pointed out things Gary has been saying himself in an effort to get him to lighten up---I play as many tournaments and suppost the hotels and restaurants whereever they are held and if anything want the game improved not torn apart by someone that says he played in no tournaments this past year--I inquired to SSUSA as to his name and where he lives--
Dec. 28, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
What you did was take stuff out of a context and repeated them here. Just silly.

Sure, the SOB part was too much, but clearly not intended toward your mother. Who calls someone that and really means it to the mother? No one that I know of. But if that is how you took it, sorry.
Dec. 28, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
you know my friend I disagreed with the things you say and will always argue the point BUT I will not resort to name calling and belittleing you---I play a game I love as do most on here and if I find a way to improve it I will suggest my idea I will not put down anyone for using what is allowed by the rules--by doing so without a better idea one just shows their ignorance---last night you tried to slight my wife someone you have never seen or will never see today you call me a derogatory name--I prayed for your lost sole last night and shall do so again tonight why?? because i am smart enough to know we --all of us--only play this or any other game through the grace of God--
incidentally in response to your comment about my wife last night--in Raleigh before a game as we were sitting in th edugout an umpire came over to our dugout and inquired as to who was married to the blond--- kinda funny Gary once again you are so mistaken--my wife is drop dead gorgeous---
Dec. 28, 2011
perly
88 posts
Gary19, time for the SSUSA to drop you from this sight. The SOB name calling should be taken very seriously. You trying to explain it away is a joke.

SSUSA Staff, come on now, please do the right thing and shut Gary19 down.

SSUSA, your rules below have been broken

Inappropriate language

Disparaging comments directed toward any individual

Gary19, for a guy who loves to agitate others you sure lost your cool very quickly. If you're going to talk the talk you've got to walk the walk.

Dec. 29, 2011
neck10
505 posts
pricer your wasting your breath with these guys!!!!!!!!!!
Dec. 29, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
SOB is an expression, clearly used as a figure of speech by many. Anyone who takes it literally has many issues of their own.
Dec. 29, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
Gary the term was used by a child because he was made to look like the fool he is---i8ssues? Yes sadly I have some issues we all do--I am here for fun and to spar with you (an easy target) someone with intelligence realizes when they are bested and move on to something else--you just keep changing your stance and looking more foolish so have fun and I will laugh every time I post something to make you look bad
Dec. 29, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Steve, again I don't know anything about you but I doubt if you want to compare education and intelligence with me. Go anywhere else you want, but those are two areas in which you should not tread.
Dec. 29, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
I realize that every time I read one of your comment---and then read the next one where you have changed your stance--come on professor show me your brilliance--so far yo uhave failed miserably
Dec. 29, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
For the second and last time, I have learned from studying under some of the finest practitioners in their fields that you have to have intelligence to understand it.
Dec. 29, 2011
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
apparently that must be the reason that no one on here has agreed with the things you say--tell yo uwhat i believe you can go to my profile my email address is there contact me and I will send yo umy phone number--we can talk not a need to bore the guys here with childish bickering
Jan. 3, 2012
etch
Men's 60
17 posts
I had the great fortune to play with the young guys until I turned 57
Most of the kids were 25-32 Sure, I was the old guy But , they played their asses off for me. The raw talent and speed was awesome. Even ran into Einsten
in Vegas at a NSA World Series-118 teams He had a young group also!
Never lose sight of your roots...Frampton and I live on!!.........Etch
Jan. 4, 2012
neck10
505 posts
gary19 couldnt find any LSU shirts to work out in should have hollared have a closet full could have spared one have lived in michigan for 38yrs never have had the chance for the tigers & wolves to meet on the field,at least we got les from michigan & that other guy over there at alabama was from michigan state.
Jan. 4, 2012
neck10
505 posts
pricer talked with your buddy yesterday he ask about you!!!!!!!! he's not doing to well down there in tn. not to many snowmobiles,we got 15 inches sunday night & maybe 7 or 8 monday night.
Jan. 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
neck, I broke out a Michigan jacket today in honor of the Sugar Bowl win! Good luck next week, my two favorite teams are Michigan and whoever is playing against Saban.

Jan. 4, 2012
ill41
Men's 60
11 posts
I love playing with the kids.I pitched twice a week until last year.Last year caught and EH"d.Didn't really feel like I was in the game.When you play in a 18-35 years old league,you have too many Rambo's shooting the middle.I still play with my Grandson and Son-In-Law one night a week and play with the Seniors on Tuesday mornings.
Jan. 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Not sure about the "Rambo" part. The middle is still a part of the field.
Jan. 4, 2012
Boppo
15 posts
I play with both "the kids" and seniors. Gary- where are the most violent collisions on a ballfield? At home plate- of course. To avoid this- most every league I play in has a mandatory slide rule on all plays at home plate. Now- many seniors prefer not to slide- as it is one of the highest injury plays- so the second home plate handles this by making it a force play. Regarding CRs- you bring up throwing- which is not appropriate since you can play some positions w/o needing a good throwing arm (1B-C-2B-even pitcher). But everybody has to hit and run the bases- CRs allow for that. Regarding the mat- I'm a pticher and I can't tell you how many times I have argued with umpires over thier changing strike zone. Some umpires change in the middle of a game. You can't argue with the mat! And- it protects the catcher- since they can play deep and not worry about catching the pitch. Regarding 5 run rule- it's a good league rule- takes away the mercy killings- especially in non-classed leagues. I've played against sandbagging teams who had no busines in an "open" class league- and it's not fun losing 30-0 in 3 innings!
Jan. 4, 2012
Boppo
15 posts
Also- regarding the middle- it is not part of the field in most leagues these days- with the bats and balls - 50 feet is not enough room to react to a 100+ mile per hour ball (actually it gives you 3/10 of a second to react).
Jan. 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Maybe it is just a matter of our own experiences, but I have seen very, very few collisions (violent or otherwise) at home. VERY few.

These guys who don't/won't/can't slide into home, what do they do at second and third?

So fine, only provide Courtesy Throwers for the outfielders and left-side of the infield. If we must have CRs, fine I guess, but how about the last out runs? That handles things for the guys who truly need a runner.

I pitch as well, and I guarantee you I miss my spot (though not often) more than the umps would miss a call. The bad-mouthing of umps just has to stop somewhere. Players lose games, NOT umps! The one-size-fits-all strike zone the mat provides fits VERY few.

Protect the catcher? Huh? The catcher NEVER has to catch the pitch, mat or otherwise. NEVER!

What satisfaction can anyone possibly get from knowing they played a close game due to some silly rule? Getting rewarded for crappy defense is just ridiculous.

The middle is part of the field in almost every league I see around Cleveland, seniors or not. And if the pitcher is still just 50' from the plate when the ball is hit, shame on him.


Jan. 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Didn't mean to be a broken recored guys, but Boppo needed some clarification.
Jan. 4, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
We would expect nothing less Gary. =)
Jan. 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Hey, I'm trying! And he needed some assistance. =)
Jan. 4, 2012
Boppo
15 posts
Gary sighhhhh! I am Commissioner of an 18 team league and the most prevalent issue I deal with- year in and year out- is plays at home plate. We have a no contact rule- never works. Catcher blocks plate- runner bowls him over. Happens at least once a week. Also- runner doesn't have as much incentive at 2nd or 3rd- a run is not being scored. Home- guys get "juiced" and go for it! Double home plate settles that.

Pitching- c'mon- some umps give you 12"- some 18" some 6". Some say it depends on the height of the pitch- blah blah blah. Also- many umps in our leagues will gve you a close call if the catcher catches the pitch, but not when it bounces. Mat handles that.

You're being silly with courtesy throwers. C'mon.

You keep talking about getting rewarded for crappy defense- I'm talking about an equalizer for mismatched teams- league rules- not tourneys- to allow games to continue- rather than mercy killings.

Are you actually playing softball? Pitcher protection in various ways is the norm- most common- if you hity a pitcher's body with a batted ball- you are out and a waring issued to the team. If it happens again- batter is ejected and an out in the lineup when he bats.
Jan. 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Like I said, maybe it is a matter of our individual experiences, but I rarely if ever see that at home. And you need to safely get to both second and third before you can even think about scoring a run, so those bases are just as important.

NO ump gives 18', but if they do so what. Adjust and take advantage of it. My guess is they "miss" as many calls in your favor as against, so again just go with it. And by the way, they should give 6', that is the rule. So what is the problem there? One-size-fits-all mats handle nothing. What game was ever created with the intention that guys 5'6" and 6'6" should have the same size strike zone?

No sillier than courtesy runners. Which commandment says running is more valuable than throwing?

Maybe the lesser team should work to improve instead of looking for rules to bail them out. Where is it written that softball should be Socialistic?

Yes I do. My protection is my glove. Again, where is it written that guys who cannot use theirs should be rewarded? The day, and I am assuming it will come at some point, I cannot field the middle I will find a new position, or a new hobby. I will never expect a rule to do what I cannot do for myself. And to throw guys out for using a legitimate part of the field is about as asinine as I can think of.
Jan. 5, 2012
Omar Khayyam
1003 posts
Gary19, better start practicing a new position. As long as they allow the excessively hot senior bats along with a hot ball, there will be continuous attempts to protect the pitcher. It will go from an out to hitting at the pitcher (in the ump's opinion), to an out for hitting the pitcher (even if he fields it), to the imposition of your dreaded screen. Since you seem to work hard to stay fit, I would suggest learning an outfield position.

Only thing that might change this scenario is a successful lawsuit following a tragic injury to a pitcher and a resultant unsupportable increase in insurance premiums. Then we will see a return to non-composites, maybe even single wall, or a radical dumbing down of the ball, or both! You can then return to pitch as screens will go and umps will give the middle back to the batter.
Jan. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Omar, sadly you could be right.

I just don't see this lawsuit thing. Unless gross neglect can be proven, I don't see the merit of any suit. We all know the risk when we play, we all know the equipment being used (heck, being insisted upon) when we play. Again, unless some gross neglect can be shown I just see no responsibility on the part of the parks or association.

Frankly, there shouldn't be any responsibility. We all accept the risks when we play, again we as a group seem to want the added risk, so any suit appears to be pretty frivilous.
Jan. 5, 2012
garyheifner
367 posts
As you continue your rant on senior bats---correct me if I am wrong. But didn't one of you older posters on this site who has done radar testing post that the U-Trip bats showed an average exit speed of only "3" MPH slower over the senior bats and that included the U-2????? I believe the poster concluded no big deal and not noticeable difference.

Also as the rant continues about the CRs. We have 1 player with cronic foot problems, 1 with a metal hip and 1 with 2 rods holding his leg together and all can only fast walk. We also have 5 who have had by-pass surgery and do run out of gas. With no CR, what do you want. Should we fold a team that has that has been together for 11 years. Take the 5 or 6 that can run and tell the others to take a hike??? Break up a team that has shown loyalty and oneness for 11 years. Yah, right!!!



Jan. 5, 2012
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
garyheifner--you guys going to TOC? you can also give up on getting Gary19 to accept CR excaept the last out since he is aperfect physical specimen and does not need a CR
Jan. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Wasn't me, I never cite studies. The games are played on the filed, not in some test environment.

All I do know is if the difference is slight to insignificant why do so many seniors insist on keeping the senior bats? They must believe they offer something the others don't. That's just common sense.

As I have said MANY, MANY times (I am surprised you are so ignorant of this, considering how closely you appear to follow my posts) keep the CR but make the last out run. Will significantly cut down on the abuse/shenanigans.

By the way, given all you said how do you guys put a team on the field defensively? Last I checked there are, or should be, two sides to the game.

Jan. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Steve, all of your childish sarcasm aside (if that is possible), better the last out has to run than all of the silly abuse of the intent of the rule.
Jan. 5, 2012
ju25
Men's 55
149 posts
Courtesy runners allow alot of guys the oppurtunity to keep playing this game we love. The older the age group the bigger the necessity. IMO as long as you don't use the same guy twice in an inning who cares. When I play with the kids it is last out, and many times this just slows down the game. Guys who can't run anymore are usually stuck at C,1st, or 3rd. If they have to play anywhere else it is to your advantage. Remember, whatever the rule is both teams get to use it.
Jan. 5, 2012
FarmerTed
5 posts
Still playing wit the young pups at 46 and still better than most. Lol
Jan. 5, 2012
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
Gary19--this is my last post on this subject so yo uwhen you reply will have the last word---I fully realize your argument concerning the last out BUT you will not open your mind to reality--I explained to you long ago all the injuries and artificial joints that cannot run on my team and they can and sometimes do bat one behind the other so last out is really not possible(time constraints) now Gary heifner has pointed out the same situation on his team and again you respond last out--perhaps for young pups that is possible but we are talking SENIOR softball and all the associated ailments that come with age--so for once open your mind and realize everyone is not young and spry and therefore CRs are needed and not necessarily the last out---with multiple guys needing crs batting in order the "last out" could go to 5 or 6 last outs---
Jan. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Steve, again yes it is possible. As I have said, if the last out cannot run/has been run for previously then it goes back to the next previous out. This would continue until someone has to be eligible to run. And again, your team exception should not determine the rule.

If you guys literally have no one who can run, (a) how do you play defense? and (b) you really need a new hobby. If I am a cornerback who can no longer run, I don't ask for the receivers to wear lead boots. If I am a boxer who can no longer take a punch, I don't ask the other guy not to hit me. Sometimes it is just time...............

So you are happy with the rampant abuse of the intent of the rule, or do you want to claim that doesn't happen either?
Jan. 5, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Your beating that horse to death, cruelty to animals is a felony.
Jan. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Yea, I know. This started out just trying to clarify Boppo, and has taken on another life of its own.
Jan. 5, 2012
ju25
Men's 55
149 posts
Be thankful that you are in your 50's and still have good health. How many of the CR's are really fast enough to be game changers? Dont try to take this game away from those that are less fortunate than yourself. Remember that this is Senior softball. I am very thankfull to be 58 and still healthy enough to run for some of the legends of the game , whom you think should give up something they love doing.
Jan. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
A lot of them are. Who is taking away CRs, I just want to control/eliminate the clear abuse of the rule.

And we all have to give up just about everything at some point. No one is entitled to anything. In the words of Greg House, "everything ends badly, or it wouldn't end".
Jan. 5, 2012
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
Gary19--sorry but I cannot ignore ---in the past your biggest argument has been time--CRs waste time--yet with the possibility of needing to find and use several CRs using your last out idea the time constraints are huge--as for my team being the exception GaryHeifner also stated several of his teammates need CRs --have you ever watched a 65 or older team--needing several CRs is not the exception its the rule--and I saw that in seven different tournaments including teams from all over---
Jan. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Steve, I have said that. My experience is the abuse/overuse of the rule creates many more CRs being used than are really needed. And, while some teams are prepared, many are not and it takes time.

What I am thinking is by making the last out run the number of CRs will be greatly reduced since teams won't be able to just take advantage of a guy on the bench who is .1 of a second faster than the perfectly healthy guy he is running for. That is where I am seeing the time savings.

Steve, see my other thread I started where I am thinking different age groups can have different rules. In 65+ I certainly see CRs being more needed than in 50+, where many are just cases of getting a faster guy out there to run for a perfectly healthy but slower guy.
Jan. 10, 2012
neck10
505 posts
gary 19 are you from michigan???????
Jan. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Northeast Ohio.

I went to grad school at U of M.
Jan. 10, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
"I am Commissioner of an 18 team league and the most prevalent issue I deal with- year in and year out- is plays at home plate. We have a no contact rule- never works. Catcher blocks plate- runner bowls him over. Happens at least once a week. Also- runner doesn't have as much incentive at 2nd or 3rd- a run is not being scored. Home- guys get "juiced" and go for it! Double home plate settles that."

Boppo, if this happens once a week in your league, you've got a bunch of idiots playing. No collision at the bases has been around 25-30 years. What time capsule have these guys been in? If the runners feel there is no more incentive to be safe at any of the other bases besides home plate, they are just not ballplayers! You can't touch home unless you get to the other bags first. As commissioner, you've got your hands full. Good Luck! You need it!
Jan. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Pricer, I am thinking the same thing. I just don't see it happening, really at all.
Jan. 10, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Actually it happens far too often, lets remember, the catchers position is "generally" filled by the less athletic,or newest player. Many times when the catcher is bowled over its due to being out of position, and being out of position doesnt matter when you get bowled over. You are still in a hurt.
The point is it doesnt happen with the second plate or line.
Does it take away from the integrity of the game, maybe. Does it keep players safer, certainly.
Ok Gary, lets hear it.
Jan. 10, 2012
stick8
1320 posts
Boppo, can you elaborate on what the mandatory slide rule is at home plate that the leagues you play in have? I've never heard of a mandatory sliding rule per se.
Jan. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
E4, not much to say. I often watch the kids play maybe twice a week on nights I am not playing and I stop by a local park on my way home from the gym. I cannot remember the last time I saw any real collisions at home. Just can't.
Jan. 10, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Gary it doesnt have to be a bowl over, something as simple as a foot in the side of an ankle or leg will do the trick if or when out of position. And at the plate theres no bag to protect you from a direct impact.
It sounds like the leagues you watch are Gentlemens Leagues. =)
Jan. 10, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
182 posts
I play on a Tuesday night league with the kids...Last week we had a collision at home between the pitcher (who was covering) and the runner. The pitcher body blocked the runner and down they both went..Benches emptied and only the pitcher was thrown out. He instigated the brawl and should have been tossed. He is just a knucklehead who out of the corner of his eye saw the runner coming and decided to knock him down...Cooler heads prevailed and we continued the game with a new pitcher (me). This guy runs the team and had no reason to know the runner down, leave us short and more importantly...MAKE ME PITCH...This is only the second collision I have ever seen in slow pitch...
Jan. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Not sure what a "Gentlemens League" is, but these are C/D leagues. Not the highest, but the kids know how to play.

Olden, it sounds like that collision was only caused by a goofball, and clearly is not an epidemic with the kids as some are alleging.
Jan. 10, 2012
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
Doesn't have to be epidemic. If it happens once to the "ole" guy it can be life altering....It is not life or death!!!
Jan. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
No, but it is a sport. If the "ole" guy wants to be completely safe there is always checkers.

And my hunch is more guys are hurt by balls off the senior bats than by collisions.
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