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Discussion: rosters

Posted Discussion
Jan. 20, 2012
jrhunch
103 posts
rosters
i know major rosters has to be touching states.how about major plus?i thought they could have 2 players outside of touching states.is this true?i can't find the rule
Jan. 21, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
343 posts
NO not true.
Jan. 21, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
I thought that WAS true per the SSUSA/LVSSA merger. I would like to see that not be the case as you said, titanhd, because Major-plus teams with the money will be able to bring players in and make it even tougher for the competitive balance in a division that doesn't have enough teams to begin with.
Jan. 23, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts

From the rules meeting:

BORDER CLOSURE RULE REPEAL [SSUSA Rulebook 15.1(2)] - Discussion was terminated on September 21st and deferred to this Committee meeting for resumption of discussion and a vote.
Motion to Table for 10 months (until October 15, 2012) to allow for additional statistical analysis to be conveyed to the Rules Committee FAILED (4-5, 1 abstain)
Motion to Repeal Border Closure Rule, effective immediately PASSED (6-3, 1 abstain)

Bt this it would appear they are back to boarding states.

Another version of the flip flop rule, eventually they get it right.
Jan. 23, 2012
SSUSA Staff
1320 posts
Roster Composition Rules Recap -

BORDER CLOSURE RULE was repealed at the SSUSA Rules Committee meetings in December for CA and FL, effective immediately - All teams may now draw otherwise eligible (as to age, team rating experience and residency) players from their own state and bordering states.

MAJOR PLUS TEAMS (Ages 50+ through 65+) may NOT have 'Snowbird' players on the roster. They MAY have up to two (2) players from non-bordering states, but those players must be from the same side (East or West) of the Mississippi River as the team's home state.

MAJOR, AAA, AA (Ages 50+ through 70+) and MAJOR PLUS TEAMS (Age 70+) may draw otherwise eligible (as to age, team rating experience and residency) players from their own home state and bordering states, MAY have 'Snowbird' players on the roster, but may NOT have out of region players.

AGE 75+ TEAMS may draw players from anywhere East OR West of the Mississippi River, as determined by the team's home state.

AGE 80+ TEAMS may draw players from anywhere.

Jan. 23, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
Thought so. By letting Major-plus teams have 2 players from non-bordering states, they have made it even LESS appealing for teams playing at that level. The rich get richer but the numbers continue to dwindle.
Jan. 23, 2012
jrhunch
103 posts
thank you staff for the info.

jawood at least when you play ssusa and spa major rosters play major rosters.issa lets major plus play major if they want to.i am not sure of the major plus roster requirements.i know major teams have to be touching states.there are no runs given to the major teams.i have no problem with it but i am still curious about what a major plus roster can consist of in rb's assn.

if and when all assn.were to combine major and major plus teams it could be a problem with the non-bordering state rule .major teams might try to pickup 2 players .this might cut down the teams even further.it wouldnt hurt my team because we are all from the same city.
Jan. 24, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
Jarwood, you are right on. The lower Major+ teams aren't attractive to "super pick ups" from non-bordering states and fall even further behind in the competitive level with the most attractive team, the perennial champs, because they can't attract the "super pick ups". (sometimes it's a money issue: The lesser team doesn't have the budget to compete with the top sponsored teams have so aren't in the running to buy a "super pick up") It does chase more teams away. That is one of the merger rules that should be done away with period. I think maybe LVSSA had that rule in their association so that some of their guys could play with great teams coming into Vegas for the LVSSA tourneys. With a limited number of players in Nevada, this gave a select few a chance to play with the best teams. LVSSA had that right to put that rule in, it was their tourney! That was then! Now that the merger has taken place, this rule isn't needed at all. It will cause more marginal teams to not attend tournaments, making the fields smaller and more lopsided. Jarwood, you were right on, the rich getting richer at the cost of dwindling tournament numbers.
Jan. 24, 2012
donll
61 posts
Wouldn't allowing players from non bordering states increase the number of major plus players available? Seems that would increase membership at the major plus level. More players = more teams.when I do the math, that's what I come up with.
Jan. 25, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
No, it makes the sponsored top of the division even tougher to compete with, creats further imbalance, more top heavy.
If you already have an 18 man roster and are the best team by far in the country, and you pick up the best 2 individual players from your geographic area (West/East), how would that help the division by increasing numbers? I don't see it. It just makes it more difficult for the remainder of the teams to compete. There just aren't a lot of teams/players that are willing to spend travel money and time to not have the chance to be competitive. You'll only go and be "the woopin' boy" so long. I think all guys want is a level playing field, then let's see who's the best for that event.
Jan. 25, 2012
donll
61 posts
I remember reading here about major plus players who couldn't play because there were no major plus teams in their area (touching states). Now they can play. Which means more players available. Let's assume, for the sake of argument you are correct (I'm not so sure) and they go to the best team. In this case a couple of players from existing rosters will become available. Which means more players. More players will eventually lead to more teams.

Why would you assume that the best major plus teams would be willing to pick up the new available crop of players? If their teams are set and the pick-up is only roughly as good as their existing player, why would they get rid of an existing player to add someone roughly the same?

Jan. 25, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
Because, donil, that's what the top Major-plus FUNDED teams do ... pickup new players whatever the cost because they might be the slightest bit better than the next guy. Most Major-plus teams don't have anymore money that anyone else, it's just those with the funds will further distance the top from the rest of the field, however few that is.

I don't know what level you are at, but bomber#7 is spot on.
Jan. 25, 2012
jrhunch
103 posts
donll-the 2best players on a major team are probably major plus players.if my major plus team or my major team picks these 2 players up that weakens their team.they could disband.my team plays major but when we play issa we have to play major plus teams since major plus teams have an option to play major .i could ask 2 players from doc's out of ohio to play with me.i would have a better team and weaken doc's team.this starts a domino effect because more and more teams start raiding rosters thus weakening the major teams.in the east we play major and the same few teams over and over.i dont think we played one tournie where there were 5 major teams.when we had 5 teams it was major and major plus combined with no runs givenwe lost 3 finals to major plus teams.i am not complaining at all.dont care who we play.no matter how you count it there are only so many players to go around.look at the nba they let miami try to build a powerhouse now everybody is trying to do it.there becomes no balance.
Jan. 25, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
donll, some of the best players in the country are picked up for specific tourneys when there own team isn't playing for example.(could be for all tourneys other than SSUSA for example) The team that picks them up doesn't drop anyone. They just insert him into the #4 hole, win the tourney, and send him back cross many states where he plays again with his own team till called on again. This created no extra players. Now, other teams could do the same thing with other players from that group that isn't in the tournament, but the majority can't afford that kind of expense to get a ballplayer travel expenses that would be needed.
The pick ups are usually "TOP OF THE LINE" individuals, the recognised studs of the sport who happen to be quite a bit better than most, not just better by the slightest bit.
If you have the best team in the nation. And you add the best HR hitter in your age group in the nation to your clean up position, did you improve? Yup. Did you create any more ballplayers for other teams to help them? Nope.
I think most of these are a lot higher budget teams than you imagine. They are the elite that further distance themselves from the rest of the field.
It further makes the playing field unlevel.
Jan. 25, 2012
jrhunch
103 posts
donll major plus players that dont have a major plus team in their area to play for can play for a major or aaa team in their area.i dont know if that is true in spa now because they have an impact player list.maybe it is true now in all org.you need to be a lawyer to figure out some aspects of senior softball
Jan. 27, 2012
donll
61 posts
I kind of remember several years ago about a major plus player named Bruce Walker not being able to play with anyone because he was a major plus player. I think the Mavericks wanted him tomplay with them. Keep in mind this was 6 or 7 years ago and the Mavericks weren't very good then (not the good team they put together with local southern california players about 4 years ago), taking their lumps in the Major Plus division. I watched them get beat by a couple local AAA and major teams and I was thinking they needed some help. Yet they couldn't pick this player up. And they were a Major Plus team!? Wouldn't that have made them less of the "woopin boy" at that time? And allowed another person to play Senior Softball?
Jan. 27, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
6-7 years ago that senerio would have made the Mavericks less of a "woopin boy" and allowed one more player to partisipate.

Moving forward to today, picking up a player from another roster, many states away, doesn't add any players to the pool, won't give guys without a place to play a team to go to, the rule will keep some teams home because the field will be even more unlevel.

There is such a small pool of Major+ players, lumping the best of them on one group is not going to promote good competition. Major+ division numbers will suffer.
Jan. 27, 2012
batter4u
Men's 65
77 posts
having moved from California and playing on a major+ team there to Arizona, is akin to being blacklisted from ssusa as there are a very limited,(1), major team in AZ my age, fact is you don t always have to have major plus abilities to be on a major plus roster and be labeled with the major+ label and suffer the consequense of having to sit our seasons if there are no major + teams in your area
Jan. 27, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
399 posts
Maybe the thing to do then, is to do away with the bordering rule as well. Then everone would have to pick players from their own state. I would be totally ok with that. Most of our guys on our 50 Major+ team are from Indiana. And I know we could fill in the holes with others from our state.
Jan. 28, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
It really is a 'darned if you do and darned if you don't situation'. There has always been the highly sponsored teams that paid for the best players. That will probably never change. They have tried to set rules that made it difficult to do that, and ended up with other consequences that were worse. I really don't see a way to rectify it.
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