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Discussion: This really happened

Posted Discussion
Feb. 15, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1974 posts
This really happened
YOU MAKE THE CALL - TOC STYLE
Runners on 1st and 3rd ... Batter hits fly ball to deep left center ... Left Center fielder drifts back within a couple of feet from the fence ... Reaches up for ball, which bounces off the heel of his glove ... Ball bounds up and back, lands on top of the fence and STAYS THERE!! ...
Runners charging around the bases like grammar school kids playing 'musical chairs' ... Ump makes no initial call ... Ball STILL resting on top of fence ... LC fielder jumps and swipes at ball, but misses ... LC fielder jumps again and this time makes contact with the ball, but wedges it downward and it gets caught between the chain link itself and the cross pipe at the top of the fence ...
Umpire says "Dead Ball!" and makes his call (over the screaming by the fans to "CALL SOMETHING!!!") ... What was his call?

Dave proceeded to tell me that the odds (quoted by a vegas oddsmaker to him) of a ball balancing on top of a fence were about the same as a flipped coin landing on its edge and staying there. Well, believe it or not, the next morning the first flip in our game did just that, landed on its edge and stayed there..






OK, it stuck in the mud-but it was totally hysterical.
Feb. 16, 2012
birdie
Men's 60
680 posts
I would say ground rule double just like a ball wedged under the fence. However once the fielders start jumping for the ball then I believe it is all you can get. Unless the ump ruled dead ball.If the ball is lodged under the fence you are supposed to hold your hands up and let the ump come check it. If you start pulling on it then the ball is alive. I would think that the same rule applies here. Thanks Harry
Feb. 16, 2012
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
I would think once fielder touches the ball it is in play. If he did not touch it then dead ball.
Feb. 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
What call were they yelling for the ump to make? There was no call to make. The ball was not foul, so no need for that call. The ball had not been caught, so no need for that call.

Proper umpiring mechanics would be to make no call at all.
Feb. 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Oh, and the ball was not over the fence, so no home run call to make either.

And correct birdie, clearly not a ground rule double since the fielder is the one who wedged the ball in the fence. Same as if there was an opening under the fence and the fielder kicked the ball through it to get a ground rule double call. He isn't going to, or shouldn't get that call.
Feb. 16, 2012
stick8
1282 posts
Webbie if I was umping I'd have to see the play live but since that won't happen the way you describe the play I wouldn't call anything. Live ball.
Gary19 in your scenario the USSSA rule is a three base award if the umpire deems it intentional. Not sure how SSUSA would rule that.
Feb. 16, 2012
Wayne 37
198 posts
Rule book double, R3 scores, R1 awarded 3rd. B/R awarded 2b.

The initial touching of the ball means nothing, put your hands in the air, and have ump come look at it. In the meantime, runners should keep advancing in case ball is deemed to still be live.
Feb. 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Wayne, I disagree. Your second paragraph only applies if the fielder does not make a play on the ball. By trying to pick the ball off the fence top, more than once, he is definitely making a play. Just like if the ball gets stuck under the fence, he cannot try to pick it up, potentially push it under to draw a ground rule double call, and then raise his hands.

If what you are saying is true, that is a shame and should not be.
Feb. 16, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
If the ball was tipped before going out of play or being lodged in the fence, depending on where the runners were at the time of the tip they would get 1 plus one. Since the runner at third scoring is a no brainer. Where was the batter when the ball was tipped? If still heading to first he gets second. If he had already past first at the time of the tip he gets third. That would be my NSA call but, I could be wrong.
Feb. 16, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
Webbie: Wanted to get a chance to play against my buddy John but with the weather like it was I'm glad we decided not to go (TOC). Haven't heard from him is he still alive
Feb. 16, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1974 posts
Corky-he is alive and still searching out old female classmates from the 244 high schools he went to----lol!

Dave Dowell was right there watching the play unfold, guys. I believe the umpire got it right. There is no call since the ball was not wedged to begin with. It was just sitting there balanced and is in play. The fielder was obviously, to all that were watching including the umpires, attempting to get the ball down and make a play. With a 9 foot fence he just couldn't reach it and when he barely did, he inadvertently wedged it. That's when the call was made-unplayable-ground rule double. The fielder jumped at it twice-had to be just out of reach.
I think it was the right call. So does Dave Dowell.
Feb. 17, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Mark, check again with Dave. I don't believe he feels that way about the accuracy of the call.

I must remind my outfielders this year to "accidentally" wedge balls under the fence to hold speedy runners to two bases.
Feb. 18, 2012
ShaneV
Men's 55
382 posts
An untouched ball could be ruled dead ball, ground rule something, but I would guess a ball that "bounces off the heel of his glove" remains live no matter where it ends up. I could be wrong.

ShaneV
Feb. 18, 2012
paul0784
Men's 60
128 posts
Mark that was against us if I remember correctly, Hannington's/Bay State and it was hysterical.
Feb. 20, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1974 posts
Gary-you weren't even there, for crying out loud. I have talked to Dave. He was the one that described the play to me-IN PERSON and you know it. I posted it exactly as he described it to me. Why don't you just not post on this one for once? You absolutely have no idea.
Feb. 20, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1974 posts
paul-great tournament to you guys! You had to be tired after so many games, but you battled! It was much fun talking to you and competing with you guys. Every game was close.
Feb. 20, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
No, I wasn't. Not my point. Just ask Dave what he believes the outcome should have been. And it's not the following:

"I think it was the right call. So does Dave Dowell." That's all I was saying.
Feb. 20, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Oh, and if you want to know why I am saying this, email me. gsommers19@hotmail.com
Feb. 20, 2012
paul0784
Men's 60
128 posts
Mark as was talking to you. Good luck with GSF and hope it is what you are looking for in the game? We actuaslly had 2 guys go down which didn't help our cause. One was our original SS and the other was our LCF who was probably our fastest guy. We did ok for not having played since the Worlds. We did have some fun games, take care and look forward to seeing you in the future.
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