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Discussion: ssusa & umpires, u make the call

Posted Discussion
Feb. 21, 2012
Freddie
Men's 55
108 posts
ssusa & umpires, u make the call
player sitting the bench, goes in to play defense(catcher or any other positon) does not tell the umpire or the other team. after 3 outs the pitcher is suppose to come up to bat but the sub. that came in bats for him. it's brought to the umpires attention after he gets a hit & base runners advanced, what's the call?
Feb. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
These days it probably depends on the particular league's or tournament's rules. There are so many whacky, bastardized rules from the traditional ones when we were younger that it is hard to say at this point.
Feb. 22, 2012
steve65
Men's 65
177 posts
Freddie in reading your scenerio the way it is written makes this a trick question---first the player comes in to play defense therefore his team is in the field
Next "after 3 outs the pitcher is supposed to come to bat but the sub that came in bats for him" since sub came in for defense the pitcher would be the lead off batter for his team--
the sub would be in batting order for the player he replaced---since pitcher would be leadoff there would be no base runners and if the sub bats for pitcher then he would be out for batting out of turn.
Feb. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Again, assuming the league or tourney didn't have any whacky "senior" rules of its own. After all, who grew up thinking you would ever be able to bat WITHOUT first recording three outs in the field?
Feb. 22, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
100% of all visiting teams. Any sub placed in the game when teams are at bat in inning #2 or later.
Both occur without bastardized or "wacky" rules, and, would be realized by the majority of non-bastardized players. These situations have been around since softball inception.
Feb. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Sure the "situations" have been around forever, though again do you have any idea under what rules that game was played? Do you even realize the legitimacy of that question?

Softball's inception also included touching the actual home plate when scoring a run. When was the last time you were allowed to do that? So yes, there are different rules that might not apply to the way the game was designed at its inception.

Earning your ups has been around since the inception too, but we only have to earn them in the last inning.
Feb. 22, 2012
neck10
510 posts
if the pitcher is susposed to bat and the other guy batted out of turn that spot is out & there wont be any base runners if he hit first,we really need mor info about this like how many people are batting & was he a true sub or an extra player who hadnt got in yet but no matter what yoou still cant bat out of turn & get caught its an out.if he is a true sub he sould hit for whoever he replaced.In our leauge everyone bats so that doesnt get into effect,but you still have to bat in order of what your line up says.
Feb. 22, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
For Cripes sake Gary, do you have to jack every freaking thread?
If you dont have something to add that is remotely related to topic, back off!

Freddie, I agree with Steve, the sub is batting out of order and should have been called out.
Feb. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Not jacked at all. The obvious truth is without knowing the specifics of what rules that game was played under NO one can say what the correct call should have been in that situation. Again, NO one.

And, quite simply, I just pointed out there are a number of whacky (senior) rules in existence so only Freddie among us can say what rules were in effect in that game.

Quite simple. There is NOTHING to "add" without knowing that game's rules.
Feb. 22, 2012
VINNY LV
Men's 50
178 posts
Was it appealed b4 1st pitch to next batter ??? If so then batter is out and runners return to original bases, bring up next batter and play ball.. Doesn't get any easier than that guys.. Next case..
Feb. 22, 2012
OTE24
Men's 65
123 posts
He has to be put into the batting order BEFORE he steps on the field,otherwise he's a sub not playing. What did the scorebook show? They batted out of order. I've heard of player's batting without recording three outs: it's called pinch hitting. And I don't even want to go into the use of the DH.
Feb. 22, 2012
stick8
1324 posts
After the sub batted their had to be an appeal before the first pitch was delivered to the next batter. If not, the play stands.
Feb. 22, 2012
Freddie
Men's 55
108 posts
Umpires thank you for your response. Let me make it simple for some of you. We are playing in the World in Vegas this year. The player goes in to play defense, is not in the batting order & does not report to the umpire & plays another position other than pitcher. The pitcher is scheduled to bat 3rd in the following inning & he bats for the pitcher. Nobody on & gets a hit, what's the call & what happens to the position player the player went in for? Batting 12 players.
Feb. 23, 2012
Freddie
Men's 55
108 posts
Thank you for your response according to ssusa rule book the sub player is out & ejected from the game.
Feb. 24, 2012
garyheifner
370 posts
Thank you Freddie for answering the original and interesting question. As usual, the well thought out rules of SSUSA for the great game of Senior Softball came through again and answered the question.
Feb. 25, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"As usual, the well thought out rules of SSUSA for the great game of Senior Softball" LOL ROFL LMAO

Yes sir, being able to suck on defense, not record a single, friggin' out, and then get to bat is really a good rule. Not exactly in the spirit of the great game of baseball.
Feb. 25, 2012
garyheifner
370 posts
Gary 19

I ran into some guys who know you. I now understand you and your disfunctional comments a little better and the negative attitude from a less than average softball player. I know I promised never to respond to your comments, but this was just too good to pass up. Walked around a couple days with a smile on my face just thinking about you. Had you the ability to play on a team that played in the TOC, you would not have seen a team that sucked on defense. In fact, the speed and defense displayed was rather impressive. Yes, go ahead, you will get the last word as I return to my New Years resolution and you can continue to be an average minus pitcher.
Feb. 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Nice job of missing the point. As the example I used, a 5-run inning without recording an out is not exactly a stellar defensive/pitching performance, at least for that inning. Not necessarily in the bigger picture, but certainly for that inning. But yet, per current senior rules, you "earned" the right to go in and bat.

Again, not in the spirit of the great game of baseball, which softball was patterned after.
Feb. 26, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Should not throw stones when you live in a glass house!
Feb. 26, 2012
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
pricer who ya talking about ???????
Feb. 27, 2012
Paul C
Men's 65
3 posts
I see one posted answer is batter is out and another said sub player is out and ejected. Per rule 7.1 (effect 2) it appears the player who should have batted is out (not the player who hit)and the hit is nullified. The next batter is the one who follows the batter who should have batted. Per 4.7 it looks like an illegal substitution properly appealed and the player would be ejected. Perhaps SSUSA can provide a teaching experience on this one.
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