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Discussion: Should you be able to go for hits between the second baseman and shortstop

Posted Discussion
March 1, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Should you be able to go for hits between the second baseman and shortstop
I've had an ongoing debate (two weeks) with another fifty senior coach on this issue.

His view is, anyone with any bat speed should never try to hit a ball anywhere but down the line because it's dangerous.

My view is middle is part of the game (although aiming at a pitcher is not condoned), our team plays a five man most of the time to eliminate as many balls struck up the middle as possible.I informed him, upper level teams have been using a five man infield for over 20 years to eliminate as many hits up the middle as possible, and if he is worried about balls hit up the middle he should play a five man infield.. As we do.

The other 50 coach does not feel the need to play a five man, I have told him... If I need to stay in the park, my best chance to get on against a four man infield is going one side or the other of the pitcher... Somehow this has turned into a, if you do it I might take aboat to you, issue.

What do you guys think? I might be able to concede some of his points if we were older/say 60+.

As it is now.... How is it right for many to be able to use that half of the field, while telling others it's off limits for you, so we will put extra fielders in the area your mandated to hit the ball to.

One more thing,,,, this 50 coach is a BIG supporter of " hot bats and balls forever".
March 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
This other coach talks out of both sides of his mouth. No middle hitting to protect pitchers yet let's keep the hottest bats known to man for the oldest, slowest group still playing.

Sounds like he is not a first or third basemen.
March 1, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Tim,
Since I know who your playing for, and the other coach pretty well, I think the field is all fair game for hitting. But like you say, head hunting shouldn't be a part of it.
5 man works better against teams that don't have hitters that can't spray it around.
Otherwise the four man works out. You just shift a little for lefties and righties.
I like the balls bats that are used and would hate to see them downgraded. As it is, they keep watering down the game.
All coaches work the teams somewhat differently, I just go with the flow.
I'll be in P-town or I'd try to meet you and see the other coach as well this weekend.

March 1, 2012
Joncon
285 posts
Personally, I never TRY to hit between 2B and SS.

It's not worth it to me. I would feel really bad if someone got hurt. If they got hurt bad, I'm not sure I would play again.

The bats are too hot and the rubber is too close.

That said, with runners on 1B, less than 2 outs, I am probably hitting towards RF. I will occaisionally come around too fast and send it up the middle.


Pitchers beware. The last time I posted about NEVER going middle, I just about killed a guy in league play the next night. Remember that one Dan? :)
March 1, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Tim, maybe its because "he" is over 60. Sounds like its time for someone (J)to retire. =)

The middle is part of the field, as long as we arent going after the pitcher its in fair play. Armor up if thats what it takes to feel safe.
March 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
taits, it is what it is but a lot of the watering down being done seems to be because of the current bats. Time limits, run limits, HR limits, even the pitcher's box all appear to be a direct response to the livelier bats and the extra offense they create.

E4, I realize it is a function of advancing age, but pitchers looking like hockey goalies is a sure sign something is fundamentally wrong with today's game.
March 1, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Must be something to it huh Gary?
Regardless of the rules, the bats, the balls, or the constant ragging it takes, Senior Softball just keeps on thriving.
We must be idiots to continue to play under these ridicules circumstances, utterly idiotic.
Or just maybe, just maybe, we love to play it so much, we will overlook some of its misgiving. And j u s t p l a y. Odd concept isnt it?
March 1, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Tim, I have seen AAA pitchers for five years, and now am facing some very good M+ pitchers. There is a huge difference in the mindset. I do not mean to offend anyone with this observation. The difference I have seen is that AAA pitchers quite often can be the older members of the team that still want to play at that level, and their fielding abilities and reactions have felt the heavy hand of old man time. I felt a lot of times that I needed to keep the ball away from them for fear of doing some inadvertent damage. The major plus pitchers are a different breed, so far. They have the attitude 'bring it on-give me your best shot'. I already drilled one at D&K's pitcher. Everyone knew it was a mistake, because I stopped coming out of the box. My apology was met with-'Well, I threw the pitch where you had to go up the middle.' He has my respect-as does Rodney with Rogue-same thing. Anyone that intentionally goes after a pitcher should be dealt with, but it is a big part of the field to try to hit away from if that is your intention.
March 1, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
By the way, I have seen some very good fielding AAA pitchers-you know who you are.
March 1, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Two of the best I have had the pleasure of being around are the Westphal twins, they are about as good as there are.
March 1, 2012
garyheifner
349 posts
Being an outfielder/pitcher, I was hit at a bunch last year the 1st time around in the order. It is important that you take a defensive stance after the ball leaves your hand. Once you show you can and are willing to defend the middle, few will try it. When I do hit middle, I either drive the ball to the deep outfield gap, or hit down on the ball and try for a grounder between the actual 2B and the SS and avoid the liners. My main key is were does the SS play. Many who know me, know I pull the SS-3rd base gap often. If the SS cheats way over into that gap, I have little choice but to try the middle. As a pitcher, when the batter has a 2 strike count and you throw a pitch on the outer half of the plate, it is coming hard middle most of the time.
March 1, 2012
GI
Men's 60
160 posts
HAVING PITCHED THE LAST 30 YEARS I HAVE been hit far more than I like and now am more covered up and look like a hockey player but I still believe that I have no problem with anyone going for a hit up the middle. The crazy ones who tell you they are trying to hit you will have to live with the consequences of conscience if they succeed. balls are coming back at a fast pace as the bats propells the ball faster and farther than when we were young 20-30 years ago but as most pitchers understand they take a chance every time they step on the field no matter how good they are. I will continue to play and pitch but am well aware that one day a ball will have my name on it and the grandkids will just have to hang around with Gram ma. Webbie as much as I like you my friend I have not missed pitching to you. Maybe 80 and over when you drop down a few levels. GI
March 1, 2012
ffdonnie
Men's 50
90 posts
Wow Timmy I'm surprised he said that, I guess. He was probably just trying to get in your head again. So he won't help out his pitcher with the 5-man and also opens up a big hole right behind that guy in dead center. Then says you can't go there. Ya right. At your level there shouldn't be (and usually isn't) any problem. I don't go at pitchers but I have enough control to go left and right of them. I have for 30 years and will not stop now. I still think he's just screwing with you.
Donnie.
March 2, 2012
Smokey20
Men's 55
102 posts
Tim,

What was discussed was going middle, each side of the pitcher, or straight up head hunting. We all know the difference.


Brian
March 2, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
I think this thread is great because it allows some folks to get some things off their chest. But for Gods sake, listen to yourselves. It's a game played within a group of lines and has been for 100 plus years. If the equipment has surpassed the usage of this type of playing area. Make it bigger. Move the bases back to 90", fences 350", but for anyone to indicate a part of the field is or should be off limits is just flat out stupid!
March 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
"thriving" might be a bit over the top.

I know the couple of large tournaments get very good attendance, but the typical local or regional ones which are the vast majority still have very small brackets with often the same teams over and over. But I suppose "thriving" is in the eye of the beholder.

GI, have you ever had a "talk" with the batters who open admit they are trying to hit you? How guys would put up with that is beyond me.
March 2, 2012
canIjack
Men's 60
321 posts



Pitchers being hit by batted balls have and will always be part of the game. I've seen T ball pitchers get hit by batted balls and no one put a Mask on them. I have them (Mask) but don't always wear them.
But I do wear shin guards and a Cup. Hell I wear them at Third too.

Hey Webbie there are a lot of Major/Major+ Pitchers who cry about the middle, I hear it all the time. Every since I stared playing Senior Softball. And we started with Aluminum bats.

Every ball that I have ever hit a pitcher with was truly an accident. I don't and can't hit the side of a barn if I tried to.
I hit the ball were ever it is pitched.
Its on the Pitchers to field the ball or get the heck out the way. I have dodge a few balls in my 20 plus years of pitching.
March 2, 2012
Bubble Gum
64 posts



I'm not sure about you guys.

But I don't know of anybody that can place hit a ball exactly where they want it 100% of the time. If they could, they would never make an out.

If there are that many hitters that can place hit a ball with that kind of pin point accuracy then there must be a lot of hitters out there that I don't know about. And they all must be boasting about having .1000 batting averages!

How many hitters do you know of that have a .1000 batting average after about 100 at bats? Do they exist? If so, how many can you name?

If they are that good then why would they hit at the pitcher, and maybe have to race to first base, when they can easily place it anywhere they want on the field?







March 2, 2012
Bubble Gum
64 posts


I forgot to mention an experiment that we tried a few years ago.

We were having a batting practice when one of the hitters wanted to see if he could hit the ball into net that the pitcher was pitching from behind. The pitcher pitched 10 balls to the experienced hitter. Would you believe the hitter actually hit a ball directly into the net only twice? He hit mostly line drives over the net and a few grounders into the net. So for the fun of it, we all wanted to see if we could do much better. What we found interesting was that none of us did much better. We all seemed to hit mostly line drives about 18 to 30 inches over the net. Yes, there were some direct hits but not near as many as we thought we could hit into the net. We didn't count grounders into the net as direct hits.

Also keep in mind that the net is both Taller and Wider than the average size pitcher.

Any of reading this can try it yourself, just make sure the netting is secure and not rotten so as to not have an accident and hurt the pitcher.



March 2, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
canIjack-Kennard, it was your pitcher that I almost drilled-remember? I would NEVER intentionally go after a pitcher-no matter what. I used to say 'we all have to go back to our jobs Monday when the tournament is over'. Now I say-'that may be 3 or 4 kids Grandpa out there'. I wouldn't have the heart to hurt them by hurting Grandpa. (Ok, a bit cheesy, but you get my drift)
I also agree with you on being able to drill the pitcher at will. I have reasonably good bat control, but the best I've ever done is hit that pitchers protective screen 4 out of ten in BP. It isn't that easy.
March 3, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
I guess I am just surprised that a guy/coach would actually talk about fighting/hitting me with a bat, if I hit a ball between shortstop and the second baseman while he was in a four man infield.

Sure I could understand getting mad if you believe the hitter is trying to hit your pitcher but.... As far as I have ever known, middle is part of the game.

When I pitch I wear a full helmet, shin guards and have even used a chest protector during a few usssa games when the shaved bats came out.

I figured it was on me to protect myself, and NEVER thought it was the batters job to make sure I went home healthy.

I have been hit many times and never wanted a to hear a "sorry pitch", most of the time when someone hits a ball through me it is my own fault... Pitch location.

Anyway.... Just wanted to hear what others thought.
March 3, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Tim, times have changed. Now not only is it the offense's job to protect the pitcher, but it is the association's job to make games competitive by the number of contrived rules we now have.
March 3, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Gee, Gary-your last statement kinda sounds exactly like Obama and his policies. Why are you complaining about softball and ok with him?
March 3, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Mark, you are really reaching now.

What part of what I have repeatedly said do you repeatedly fail to comprehend? He is the LESSER OF A BUNCH OF EVILS. Is he good? No. Is he Bill Clinton? No. Is he FDR? No. Is he Lincoln? No. But is he McCain or Santorum or Gingrich or Romney? Thankfully, no.

And that is the extent of my being 'ok with him'.
March 3, 2012
GI
Men's 60
160 posts
I think it best to stay away from Political stuff as I feel not one of them could pass a truth test or understand that our country needs conscience not all this other back stabbing positions. In speaking with the question that started this thread I guess I have to consider what I tell the kids at school when they are making a choice. will the results of your action be worth it to you? Can you accept the consequences of your action? I love playing the game and seeing old and new friends. I am willing to take the real risk that I can get hurt playing the game I love , My choice. Line drives are a part of the game and I sometimes hit around the middle when I need a hit and see that area the most open. I like others of you would feel terrible if I hurt another pitcher or any player but if the time comes that I think I must try to take someone out I believe it would be time to take up another sport. One of my Heroes George Washington Carver always asked himself one question when making a choice. (IS IT RIGHT) For me playing the game is right but hurting others on purpos would be wrong. I turned 59 today and am so blessed to still be a small part of the game. See you on the field. GI
March 3, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
You're right, GI-he's not worth it.
Tim, the middle has to be in play. It is part of the game and has been since its inception. I like to hit either side of the second baseman a lot. I do use the hole between the pitcher and the second baseman a lot. I just never ever try to hit a pitcher. GI,Happy Birthday, yung'un!
March 3, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Strange post, Mark. Where did GI say that anyone is "not worth it"? Consequently, what was GI "right" about?

And why duck my question? For some reason, you are just hitting and running. Or trying to.
March 4, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Pricer-I wanted to address your post. Making the field bigger would all but make it unplayable for most seniors. We can't throw like we used to, we can't run like we used to, we don't catch like we used to, and making the field larger would just magnify those shortcomings. 90 foot bases would take some guys all day to get to second. Infielders would be playing inside the bags to be able to make the throws.(with 90 foot bases you could probably set up relay plays on the infield--lol) Outfielders trying to cover a 350 foot fence outfield-no way-the park gets exponentially bigger-it would take 6 outfielders to cover that reasonably in senior ball (can you see a play at home that reads-8 to 7 to 9 to 6 to 1 to 2 for the out?).
However, the genie is out of the bottle as far as the bats are concerned. I believe most guys don't want to go back to a lesser bat-mentally readjusting to the old bat reactions as a hitter would be tough. I think SSUSA has it right-we mostly love the game the way it is, with all the senior rules, senior equipment, and most of us celebrate the fact that we can still play. Of course it is not perfect, but nobody tries harder than the SSUSA staff to make it a great game. I find it sad and pathetic that some have nothing better to do than sit there and disparage our game with almost every post. They offer the game you want in another organization.
I need to stop politically blogging here and will forthwith.My apologies to most of you. Let's play ball!!
March 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
"mentally readjusting to the old bat reactions as a hitter would be tough". HUH???? Do you mean guys having to accept that they really aren't quite as good as the senior bats have made them appear?

"My apologies to most of you" Care you to mention who you aren't apologizing to? =)
March 4, 2012
rtaven
Men's 65
22 posts
i see some talking about line drives back at pitcher,i think most pitchers would agree we are not worried about the line drives, we know where they are going,it's the ones that hit in front of you around the rubbers that i worry about as you are not sure where there going, especialy if they hit rubber.
and yes i have bailed out when ball hits one of the pitching rubbers.
March 4, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
You wouldn't understand, Gary.
March 4, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
173 posts
Been reading this for a few days. Bottom line is I never intentionally hit AT THE PITCHER. I just hit it where it is pitched. Most pitchers I know already know the issues and pitch anyway. I have hit balls at the pitcher and always tell him "Sorry dude...you ok" Every time that happens..pitcher says...No problem..I pitch once in a while and usually tell guys ...No sweat..this is why I have this leather thing on my hand. Don't understand why some guys just don't get it,,,,Just my .02..
March 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Mark, I never pictured you just hitting and running.
March 5, 2012
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
I pitch, the area between second and SS is where I hit balls on the outside 1/2 of the strike zone. I expect, and in lots of instances intentionally, pitch on the outside 1/2 of the strike zone to intice batters to hit my way. I have the best view of where the pitch is and most of the time have a great idea the direction the ball will be launched. I have no problem with guys hitting the middle, and I also have no problem using that area of the field to hit in. As a pitcher, bat/ball combo is just fine. Webbie, right you are, SSUSA has goven us a game the majority love to play.


Also Pricer: In most situations, you can't just make the fields larger. They have already been designed to fit into a limited space, there may not be room to expand. You could raise the fence height though, pretty much as high as you'd like. (within reason)



March 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
curveball, and within budget, which these days particularly for city-owned fields can be limited.
March 5, 2012
Wayne 37
192 posts
Pitchers~Try pitching inside. Anything on the outside corner of the plate, and I usualy take the ball up the middle. I don't hit it on the ground much, but a low line drive sometimes doesn't get high enough. I like to stand away fron the plate so I can extend my arms, and hit the ball towards the end of the bat about 4-6 inches.

I just hit it where it is pitched.
March 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Wayne, in many ways you are correct. But something seems wrong to me when liveliness of bat/ball combos are dictating strategy and not the game situation.
March 5, 2012
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
rtaven, I'm with you on line drives versus screaming ground balls in front of me. I've caught the line drives so far, scary as they are coming right at your head, but the last three significant injuries I've had have all been hot ground balls in front of me (one I lost to blocked vision from my mask, one took a wicked hop on dirt, and the third I misplayed because it came up differently than I expected).

You bet I wear shin guards because of these wiry devils. It's one reason I prefer to play on artificial turf infields where the bounce is more predictable. I don't have the reflexes I once had for last minute adjustments. And of course it doesn't help that the unnecessarily hot bats send the ball faster to me.

As to hitting up the middle, I seldom do it myself because I'm worried I will hit the pitcher (fraternal courtesy?), and if the ball is over the outside half of the plate, I send it to right center or right. But I'm not worried enough to lobby for banning hitting up the middle! I did wonder in one game last year, when I realized that 12 shots went at me in a 7 inning game...and this with a guy playing up the middle behind me. It was poor strategy and the other team lost the game, but why so many up the middle? Deliberate?
March 5, 2012
neck10
488 posts
pricer why would you want the fences 350 inches & the bases 90 inches did yiu hit the wrong button 90' is way to far 350' wouldnt bother me but I think you should play outfield then thos guys run enough now.
March 5, 2012
neck10
488 posts
two foot of snow this weekend send all your buddies up here to spend money!!!!!!!!!!
March 6, 2012
Mulewhipper
54 posts
To each his own I guess Timmy...if you don't have a problem justifying your actions to yourself...then so be it.

If someone else finds itís offensive and dangerous, then that is their choice.

What I find interesting is your constant attempt to get everyone elseís approval for your actions.

All I know is that if I hurt a pitcher from a ball I hit...whether I was purposely going "between the ss and 2b"
(btw..not fooling anyone with that one) or not...I don't think I would ever be the same...That is why my approach is not to go middle if at all possible.





March 6, 2012
Mulewhipper
54 posts
To each his own I guess Timmy...if you don't have a problem justifying your actions to yourself...then so be it.

If someone else finds itís offensive and dangerous, then that is their choice.

What I find interesting is your constant attempt to get everyone elseís approval for your actions.

All I know is that if I hurt a pitcher from a ball I hit...whether I was purposely going "between the ss and 2b"
(btw..not fooling anyone with that one) or not...I don't think I would ever be the same...That is why my approach is not to go middle if at all possible.





March 6, 2012
Mulewhipper
54 posts
To each his own I guess Timmy...if you don't have a problem justifying your actions to yourself...then so be it.

If someone else finds itís offensive and dangerous, then that is their choice.

What I find interesting is your constant attempt to get everyone elseís approval for your actions.

All I know is that if I hurt a pitcher from a ball I hit...whether I was purposely going "between the ss and 2b"
(btw..not fooling anyone with that one) or not...I don't think I would ever be the same...That is why my approach is not to go middle if at all possible.





March 6, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Mule, if your "approach" is to hit home runs but some outfielder severly hurt himself running into the fence trying to catch your ball would you ever be the same after that?

For that matter, if your approach is to pull the ball could you live with hurting a 1B or 3B, but just not a pitcher?

This whole thing gets very bizarre.
March 6, 2012
Mulewhipper
54 posts
Sorry for the triple post...

Gary...not the same, but I see your point.

I guess because the pitcher is so close and vulnerable is why it makes a difference to me.

March 6, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
You certainly can and should feel however you want. I just don't see a difference. Hurt is hurt.

Now, just speaking for me, I would not feel any worse if the ball came off my bat than if it did anyone else's. At least I don't think I would, but have never had this happen so I guess I would not be sure if that until I am actually in that situation.
March 7, 2012
Wayne 37
192 posts
I was playing in an ASA tourney with my son last summer. They pitch different than the standard 6-12ft. I wasn't using a senior bat, but I a sharp line drive than hit the top of his foot, and broke something in it. I couldn't apologize enough to the guy, and I was more than twice his age.

I got called out twice for hitting the pitcher last night. I just couldn't get lift the ball.

I did hit back at another pitcher, but he was younger, had reflexes, and fielded it. The wind was blowing hard, and pushing the ball.
March 7, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
My take on this.

No one should aim at hitting a pitcher.

No batter is the pitchers keeper.. In other words.... Personal responsibility, when I pitch it's a helmet, shin guards and at times a chest protector.
It's not up to any hitter to protect me, it's on me.

On my team, we play a five man a lot, I will do it every time I think the hitter is going to go up the middle for a hit. We do it for two reasons. It makes the batter change his swing, it reduces the chance of a miss hit at our pitcher.

If I ever do injure any player on the field I will be deeply saddened.

In softball we now have infielders wearing face masks, shin guards and helmets..... If a pitcher is not "gearing up" I don't understand how anyone else should be responsible if he gets injured with a ball that is struck that hits him. The game is dangerous. Everyone knows it. They don't make you sign a waver for nothing.

In closing..... I'd support using a pitching screen and any ball that hits it is an out.... I mean we have bastardized the game so bad would it really make the game any worse?
March 7, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
My take on this.

No one should aim at hitting a pitcher.

No batter is the pitchers keeper.. In other words.... Personal responsibility, when I pitch it's a helmet, shin guards and at times a chest protector.
It's not up to any hitter to protect me, it's on me.

On my team, we play a five man a lot, I will do it every time I think the hitter is going to go up the middle for a hit. We do it for two reasons. It makes the batter change his swing, it reduces the chance of a miss hit at our pitcher.

If I ever do injure any player on the field I will be deeply saddened.

In softball we now have infielders wearing face masks, shin guards and helmets..... If a pitcher is not "gearing up" I don't understand how anyone else should be responsible if he gets injured with a ball that is struck that hits him. The game is dangerous. Everyone knows it. They don't make you sign a waver for nothing.

In closing..... I'd support using a pitching screen and any ball that hits it is an out.... I mean we have bastardized the game so bad would it really make the game any worse?
March 14, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Tim Middlette, you have hit balls through our pitchers for the last two games we played you... I just wish you got on the mound after you did that... your team has enough class to not follow your inexcusable BS of hitting the ball through the pitcher.. The person your talking about has no problem with you hitting between the pitcher and SS or pitcher and Second baseman.. The problem is when you go right over the second base bag right through the pitcher.. You can paint any picture you would like Middlette, it just doesn't fly, and as good of a hitter as you are it just shows me how twisted your thinking is by repeatedly going through our pitcher, with total disregard for his safety.. You went right under our pitchers legs with a missle and you are not that good to say you would never hit anyone hitting it that close!

I'm all for all of senior softball to paint the circle around the pitcher and make it off limits.. This would end this discussion for ever! hint hint Senior Softball!!!!
March 15, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Forgot one thing, Back to your original question.... Should you be able to go for hits between the second baseman and shortstopone thing..

the right answer is yes, without going through the pitcher.. any other answer is just retarded!
March 16, 2012
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
It's ridiculous to propose making any part of the playing field off-limits for any purpose ... take your pink uniform off and play ball.
March 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
swing, not allowing the oldest, slowest group in the game to use equipment outlawed for the younger, quicker guys might also end the discussion.
March 16, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Swing for the fences, what team do you play for?

My views on this subject are easy.

Every part of the playing field should
be free for everyone to hit in. This includes right over the pitching rubber.

No one should try to intentially hit a pitcher.if that's the case they should
be called or thrown out.

No batter should be held as the pitchers keeper.

Its up to the pither. All pitchers know the risks, they have many options to reduce the chance of injury... Pitch from the back of 56, wear a helmet, wear shin guards, wear cheat protection. Pitch inside.

Defensive teams if they believe the batters best chance to get on base is up the middle of the infield can play a five man infield.

If..... Senior softball thinks this is a health risk.. Put a screen out there and call any ball that hits the screen a foul ball.

In my last game in a local senior tourney a few weeks ago, I had hit a single by the pitcher early on. The team was mouthing off about it. My last at bat I came up with the bases loaded. Instead of hitting another ball up the middle (guaranteeing at least 80% of the time to be a hit) I tried to punch one to right (because I disnt want to hear any more complaints about hitting a single up the middle).
The First baseman fielded it, tagged first, threw home, and missed an inning ending DP by about two feet.
Funny thing.... That opposing team that was mouthing off didnt thank me for going away from my best chance to score the runs and almost hitting into an inning ending DP...And... I learned... From now on. I will not intentionally go away from my best chance to get a hit against a standard four man infield by avoiding the half of the field around/behind the pitcher ever again.
It's up to the defense to change my hitting with their defensive sets up. Not because they talk me into eliminating half the playing field.
If.... "Swing for the fences" plays against me in the future, I would like to meet you.
But.... I do not beliee I or any other player should be held to some BS "unwritten rule" that you cannot hit the middle half of the field against a standard four man infield, when the biggest hole is between the SS and second baseman.
it's the pitcher and his own teams job to protect him with their defensive allignmemt and pitcher protective gear/helmet/shin guards/ cheast protection.
No batter is responsible for a pitchers safety.



March 16, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
timmy Middlette! why don't you say it as it is.. this thread should be stated, is the pitcher off limits or not.. Second to shortstop is a distortion of the truth.. You don't have a clue, We have told you to stay off the pitcher, but you continue to be classless and have no regard for the pitchers safety.. BTW, You can't figure out, who I play for.. Amazing!!!! I am the left center fielder for the Barons! RicH Navarro, You need to stop trying to poll the softball community on your BS stance, that the pitcher has a glove so be it. You are DEAD ASS WRONG and I know for a fact that 5 of your own players on MTC think you ARE DEAD ASS WRONG and I haven't Talked to the other 10 players! I can only imagine that they feel the same as the 5 guys I have talk to since they have stayed away from the middle.. You will always find a few fools that will back your stance, However they are Dead ASS WRONG too. The most Classless thing I have seen so far in my Softball Career is you sending the first inning abat of yours right through our pitcher! Some on your team said it was a message to JOe.. That's Great, Sup had nothing to do with you and Joe going back and forth on the internet. Yet you choose to put him in harms way! Total lack of class and sense! You have Zero point in this matter as far as I'm concerned and all the sactions ought to put in the pitcher safty rule of anyball 6 feetwide to 6 feethigh is an out.. second time by same team is ejection.. We won't have this discussion again!
March 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
"Its up to the pither. All pitchers know the risks, they have many options to reduce the chance of injury... Pitch from the back of 56, wear a helmet, wear shin guards, wear cheat protection. Pitch inside.

Defensive teams if they believe the batters best chance to get on base is up the middle of the infield can play a five man infield.

If..... Senior softball thinks this is a health risk.. Put a screen out there and call any ball that hits the screen a foul ball."

Truly sad what guys are willing to do to what was a perfectly good game just to protect their fragile egos. Pathetic!

March 17, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
As a hitter, the purpose is to hit the ball between the foul lines hard. The harder the ball is hit, the better the chance of it not be caught or fielded. Foul line to foul line is and should be open. I personally don't like the senior bats and don't think with diminishing skill & reflexes in our age groups should allow these bats. But, it's just like golf, you have to play the course. But rest assured, my goal in a game is to get on base. Safety for the oppossing players is not the first and foremost thing in my mind when I'm at the plate. If that was the case with everyone and they were being totally honest here, we could make the game safer by changing the equipment first. We already know that most people would rather change the rules and how we play the game before we would want the change in the equipment. So for the folks that want to preach about the middle being off limits and let's protect the pitchers at all cost. Find another sport. If your really that concerned, start a platform that really will make a difference, anything other than that is just blowing smke up all of our a**. JMO
March 17, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
I would be all for a screen, just suggest that everyone respect the game until the powers above make it safe for the pitcher.. Anything less than that is just Crap! it only takes a few to spoil it for everyone and a simple pitcher protection rule would fix it.. we started with that rule in the 40s and it worked fine!
March 17, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
217 posts
One of my leagues here in Ohio just voted for a screen this year. Season doesn't start for six weeks yet.

Now that the screen was voted in, big debate on if it should be a foul ball or out. League voted for out, and pitcher cannot field the ball unless a pop up or a dribbler in front of the plat that won't get to the screen. If pitcher touches batted ball it's an automatic double. But the pitcher can field any bases and be cut off man too.

This league already voted for a deader ball two years ago, now the screen, couple of pitchers where Hockey Goalie Gear.

BUT------still using Miken's and composite bats even though 90% of the league players can't hit homers.

I agree with Pricer, who by the way plays on a real nice team in Michigan. In tournament play, I'm going for the hit, as hard as I can hit it, with the equipment we are allowed to play with, period.

I also pitch "sometimes" although not as often as I did when I was younger since I can still run LOL. But I'm not "ever" thinking about the opposing pitcher. (But will apologize if a ball screams by his earlobe.)

A Lot of pitchers intentionally pitch outside part of plate to guys they know pull the ball. You know what usually happens then???? Pitcher has what's coming to him in my opinion in that case.
March 17, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
217 posts
^^^^^^although I have "never" intentionally aimed at any pitcher. With two strikes on me I'm going where the pitch is thrown is the point I am trying to make----I've never gone "head hunting" as it sounds like has happened to other players who posted above.
March 17, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Gary, now what local league is further helping to ruin the game with the screen?

Please don't tell me it is Mayfield Village.
March 17, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Rich, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
I chose to see the middle half of the playing field as in play.
I chose to see the pitchers safety as his own responsibility, with help from his teams defensive positioning when ever possible.
I believe as long as it's legal for some to hit a ball both sides of the pitcher it's legal for all.
I agree with you..... The games become kinda crazy with these bats and balls but..... That's the playing field we are ccurrently are stuck with.
I have come to the conclusion that I will continue to play within the written rules. On the current issue (hitting the middle half of the field around the pitcher) I will do what the rule book allows.... Nothing more, nothing less.
I am sorry if you see this issue differently.
On the issue about our last game... No, it wasn't any message to anyone. It was taking a deep/14 foot/outside strike two and trying to hit it in the area it had the best chance to get me on first base.. It was closer to the pitcher then I was aiming, but..... That stuff happens. We are not perfect. I am glad the ball didn't hit/hurt your pitcher.... I don't aim to hurt anyone.
March 18, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Tim, I will never agree with going through the pitcher as a way to get a hit.. I have hit a few pitchers in my day and felt bad for them each time.. I know how hard we hit with any equipment or balls.. I always felt if I nutted a ball at the pitcher he was defenseless with any equipment. Two games timmy and you sent balls through our pitcher which 3 of them were within inches.. As strong of a hitter as you are I just think you should have a little more respect for the pitchers health.. If you feel fine with it so be it.. We won't see you that much this year and I know the rest of your team will not follow your lead.. They haven't so far and I they have my respect for that..I know for sure that there are those on your team that don't respect your philosophy on this issue.. I'm not talking about it anymore.. It's Your deal not mine!
March 18, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
swing, if you, your teammates, or any seniors care that much about safety you wouldn't use the special bats. To use them and profess anything about safety is about as hypocritical as it gets.

Yes, they are legal, but so is hitting the ball up the middle. Funny where guys want to draw the line.
March 18, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Gary 19 I would love to go back to metal bats and good balls.. doesn't matter to me, I will still hit a ball far enough and hard enough to compete with anyone. Doesn't matter to me.. We play with old school stuff in leagues and the middle is not open.. If it is, there goes a middle war and no one wins.. The one thing I thought about the Senior bats, is they leveled the playing field with all the shaved crap when everyone is using composites... bottom line Gary 19, if you think it's ok to go after the pitcher, so be it.. I will put you in the Idiot catagory that I put anyone who has that mentality.. I know for a fact I'm right and if you think it's ok to go throught the pitcher, you're DEAD ASS WRONG TOO. This game should be played with respect and class! Anything else is just pathetic..
March 18, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
swing......I don't know if you know Gary 19, but he doesn't appear to venture far from home as far as tournaments go. He doesn't have the experience that a lot of the other seniors have. When he was younger, he watched a lot of good players. That's where his experience comes from. He's looking for an argument, that's all.
March 18, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Thanks Salio! I had a feeling this was the case. Anyone who plays this game at any top level knows that the pitcher is off limits gentleman rule.. I have zero proplems going 5 feet left or right of the pitcher.. I have an issue if a person is aiming for second base bag and thinks that's ok.. I see Gary 19 has 1481. My next point is that if Gary 19 says something you have a 99.9 chance he's DEAD ASS WRONG.. So if he says something that you agree with, you might want to rethink your point. LMAO!
March 18, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Gary19... I understand your point about the crazy bats.

What you don't know is.... on "fences" team, one of their best hitters hits alley to alley like I do. When this middle crap started, I asked his player coach(who was starting all the bs) if that player would be willing to share a single wall aluminum with me during all our games. I thought this would be a good way to eliminate a lot of this unwritten rule stuff.
He said they wouldnt do it.... Kinda hard for a team to complain about my hit ball speed when I gave a solution that would equally have one of both teams power guys sharing an old aluminum single wall so both pitchers faced a reduced risk.
March 18, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Timmy, joe starting all the BS? Only BS thing, is you hitting through Supan, in the first at Bat... By the way, Gary Hoffman hits nothing like you.. his alley to Alley hitting doesn't include blowing up the pitcher.. Big F en Difference Timmy, you are so twisted with your thinking.. delusional too.. If you continue to blow up the pitcher it's only a matter of time before you hurt someone and I do believe if it's ever someone on my team you hurt,you might not leave the park in one peace! End of story!
March 19, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Dear Group of Highly-Experienced Experts,

When did the "pitcher is off limits gentleman rule" get implemented? I know it was not when I was playing ASA Open in the 80s.

Oh, and why?
March 19, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
The simple truth. If you hit against the oldest, slowest group of guys playing the game and you use a bat banned for everyone under 50, you don't rate safety as a high priority. Not judging that at all, just making the simple, obvious observation.
March 19, 2012
tg69
304 posts
Guys,years ago I pitched a little when need be.There was 1 player that always hit middle when I pitched and he had power.So I either pitched him so far inside that he couldnt hit middle hard or just told UMP to just walk him.It didnt take him long to get the message.He decided intentional walks werent much fun.JUST SAYING....
March 19, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
tg, I can't say I blame you at all for that, but something just seems very wrong when unnecessary equipment levels are dictating strategy and not game situations.
March 19, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
"Thanks Salio! I had a feeling this was the case. Anyone who plays this game at any top level knows that the pitcher is off limits gentleman rule.."

As a younger player playing tourney ball, the middle was NEVER off limits. When, where & why did it become taboo to go middle? WHy don't we just do away with the pitcher and go with pitching machines? Would that satisfy all you holier than thou players who want to eliminate the middle without confront the real saftey issues? What happens next when the next wave of equipment is even better than what we use now? Make all infield hits an out or screen them as well? "Thanks Salio! I had a feeling this was the case.
March 19, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
pricer there will no next wave of equipment,as a USSSA type person you should know that,as they are making mfg'er make tamper proof bats and will ban all bats that don't have the new stamp on them starting 2013...no grandfathered bats or anything.....

tim if this team is the barons as swing says,then you'll have a real big problem b/c of joe(einy) playing with them,he can't have fun unless he is hitting the hardest ball and hottest bat......

staying out of the middle has been an etiquette thing for a long time now,been playing for over 40 years now and have always seen a batter say sorry for hitting a pitcher...but it was never a mandatory thing you had to do...i started pitching(30 years back) b/c our pitcher couldn't handle a certain team that hit middle all the time,no big deal......with these compo bats the game becomes way more dangerous than it should.....
March 19, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
mad dog, time will tell how far that goes and if it stays that way. Whiny old guys, who sure won't like anything inhibiting there ability to do now what they couldn't 30 years ago, might have something to say about it.

I can honestly say until I started playing seniors seven years ago I never had a hitter apologize to me. Still to this day it catches me off-guard whenever one does. I just don't expect it, and certainly don't require an apology.

And we do agree, the game is much more dangerous than a game that used to be played by litle girls needs to be.
March 19, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
MD, I have no idea if the equipment will ever be better than it is right now. But I know based on history, they've never stopped trying to make the equipment hotter than it is. (Illegally or stock)As far as the middle thing, never in my lifetime until composites were introduced have I heard anyone complain about the middle shots and I've been pitching almost exclusively for 35 years.
March 19, 2012
Mulewhipper
54 posts
Come on Timmy....you didn't have two strikes on you when you went middle...it was the second pitch in the at bat.
And my catcher tells me the pitch was right down the middle.
Quit trying to justify your actions with false statements.
ugh.
March 19, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
pricer ,your right they'll prolly try illegally,but that is the cheaters for you,anything to try and be a hero.as for USSSA they have brought the hammer down so to speak,bats are supposed to be tamper proof and have the new stamp on..

back in the day there wasn't any real complaining,just a "hey you ok pitch" most of the time from the batter.....only time i seen bitching was when a big time player dropped down to play and went middle,thats all.
March 19, 2012
JamesLG
296 posts


Hi Mad Dog:

I doubt SSUSA would make a change to bat specs without grandfathering "IN" the bats already made. If any association did that without ample warning is would be a classless act. Also anybody selling bats knowing this was coming without giving their customers this information before they purchased the bat would lose a boat load of customer respect.

Thanks:

James
March 19, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
"SHOULD YOU BE ABLE TO GO FOR HITS BETWEEN 2ND AND SHORTSOP"????? Is a frogs butt waterproof.........Does a bear chit in the woods........Does Raggedy Ann have cotton tata's...can't believe this thread has lasted this long
March 19, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
I Think the real problem is that a lot of senior players did not played against guys that hit the ball hard when they were younger players.
The seniors that competed at the upper levels when we were young (maybe major, aa, a and B??? Ball)have already figured out that pitching is dangerous, the middle is where you go for a single against a four man infield, and the defensive team/pitcher is responsible for dictating where the ball is mostly hit, and pitcher safety.

20+ years ago our team realized that to reduce the chance of rockets being hit up the middle....play a five man and pitch inside.

10+ years Ago I started seeing pitchers wearing some form
of self protection.

Heck, I bougt a complete set of catchers gear to pitch in way back in 2003.

How long has SSUSA required a pitcher sign a waiver if he doesn't wear a helmet?

Every pitcher is responsible for his own well being....sure no one should try to aim at a pitcher but everyone knows accidents happen... That's why I wear a helmet and shin guards.

I am thinking about working on my pitching again, so next time we play the Barons (the team doing all the crying).... I will pitch and before the game let them know "middle is open"...heck... We might even go back to cave man mentality and play a four man the whole game....then we could have an
actual middle war...lol

Now.... That would be interesting
March 19, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Whipper, I never said I had two strikes. I said the first 14 foot "strike" was on the outside deep part of the matt.
The next pitch was exactly the same, high and deep, and on the outer half.... I was not going to take strike two and be at the mercy of an ump letting the ball go higher then 12 feet.
I will never apologize for hitting a ball past the pitcher... If I ever hit one I will sincerely be sorry.
In the end.... It really doesn't matter if the pitch was down the middle or outside half of the matt..... Against a four man infield with the shortstop not shading middle... I will almost always try to drive a single up the middle/between the shortstop and second baseman.
I do not aim for pitchers. Sometimes I come close to them and they either field it or they don't.... Someday, Lord forbid, I might ACCIDENTALLY hit a pitcher.... If that ever happens.... I will be very sorry if he is injured.

I just pray if that time comes he is as smart as I am (which isn't to smart) and be wearing catchers gear.
In softball.... I do not believe it's the batters job to protect the pitcher.... Something about me being a conservative and personal responsibility... You know.... That thing the progressives keep trying to eliminate.
March 19, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
I Think the real problem is that a lot of senior players did not played against guys that hit the ball hard when they were younger players.
The seniors that competed at the upper levels when we were young (maybe major, aa, a and B??? Ball)have already figured out that pitching is dangerous, the middle is where you go for a single against a four man infield, and the defensive team/pitcher is responsible for dictating where the ball is mostly hit, and pitcher safety.

20+ years ago our team realized that to reduce the chance of rockets being hit up the middle....play a five man and pitch inside.

10+ years Ago I started seeing pitchers wearing some form
of self protection.

Heck, I bougt a complete set of catchers gear to pitch in way back in 2003.

How long has SSUSA required a pitcher sign a waiver if he doesn't wear a helmet?

Every pitcher is responsible for his own well being....sure no one should try to aim at a pitcher but everyone knows accidents happen... That's why I wear a helmet and shin guards.

I am thinking about working on my pitching again, so next time we play the Barons (the team doing all the crying).... I will pitch and before the game let them know "middle is open"...heck... We might even go back to cave man mentality and play a four man the whole game....then we could have an
actual middle war...lol

Now.... That would be interesting
March 19, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
217 posts
Gary19: in response to your question to me on the 17th:

No, it is not the Mayfield League. They still play 10 man, NO screen, but do also use a dead ball and no composite bats.

Painesville (Lake County Over 50 League) voted the screen in for this year.

Keep in mind they already allow an extra fielder, (which makes it like 12 defenders) and started using a "deader" ball two seasons ago.

But they won't give up the composite bats.

Why, I don't know, there are only 10-12 guys in the league who can hit home runs with any consistency, and one team has 6-7 of those??
March 19, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
james,from the way USSSA has been talking there will be no grandfathering in.your bat will have the 2012 stamp or you will not be able to use it as of 2013,opps excuse me,they will be grandfathered for 2012.......they have this in the works for the last couple years going this way.so next year new bats or don't play USSSA....since ASA has gone the way of the 52 ball they have actually open up their list for the leagues and such,not sure for tourney play.i do know that they will be allowing seniors to use senior bats for tourney play this year....might see more players playing ASA then USSSA in the future.....
March 19, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts

mad dog, time will tell how far that goes and if it stays that way. Whiny old guys, who sure won't like anything inhibiting there ability to do now what they couldn't 30 years ago, might have something to say about it.

I can honestly say until I started playing seniors seven years ago I never had a hitter apologize to me. Still to this day it catches me off-guard whenever one does. I just don't expect it, and certainly don't require an apology.

And we do agree, the game is much more dangerous than a game that used to be played by litle girls needs to be.



Gary 19, We have been laying off the middle in California for the last 20 years and when composites came into the picture it was a huge no no with the doctored crap.... no rules just a no no.. I play against some of the best hitters in the game over the years, BoBBY Newman who was a major A player in the 80 and 90 would blow a gasket if you went middle back then.. I would of loved to see Tim Middlette pull that crap at him.. Bottom line Is Seniors should know better and it should be a no brainer.. the Equipment it hot enough that you can go elsewhere to get a hit without endangering the pitcher. If all those who are pro blowing up the pitcher can't see this, then they are truly sick... Gary 19, you are a AAA player that doesn't even play anymore.. someone like you we wouldn't even worry about if you nutted the middle. Stay of the board if you don't have anything intelligent to say!

March 19, 2012
JamesLG
296 posts
Mad Dog:

I am not against taking away composit bats completely. In fact going back to 270-175' fences and metal bats would make it harder to hit for many guys because you could squeeze the field and take away the cheep shots.
As a sponsor/player if the bat rule is changed in 2013 who is going to return the investment of us buying a bunch of bats? Any organization who would treat their customers this way should not be supported.
I would like to here Surf88 or Gorilla Boy chime in of this because they should be know first hand if this is fact.

The issue here is are the players who put up most of the $ going to get stuck with bats they cant even use.

Thank You:

James
March 19, 2012
JamesLG
296 posts


Should have been 270'-275' fences.

James
March 19, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
james it is only USSSA doing it so far,don't even know why,as they were the first to go to the 52 ball for play to make the game safer.cheater bats have no real effect on the ball anyways...the cheaters have brought this upon themselves,oh well to bad.......

i could back to metal and would have fun,and still be able to hit them out even at my advanced age,just like i did in my 20's,30's,40's,50's, and now 60's........
March 20, 2012
Mulewhipper
54 posts
your right Tim...you didn't say you had two strikes...in this post. I must have heard it from you on the field.
March 20, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Whipper, I would not have said I had two strikes at the field either.... One of the good things about never lying is..... Facts never change.... Sometimes I might not remember but..... When I do remember that facts I know I didn't try to change them.
I am guessing your on the Barons team..... Just pass along that in our next game, if my team mates allow, I will be pitching and just like it always should be.... MIDDLE IS OPEN.
I will not cry about any balls hit up the middle. It's part of the game.
March 20, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Timmy, We (the Barons)wouldn't stoop to your level(by blasting away at you)... but go ahead and pitch if you wish... Your fielding sucks and putting a one dimensional player in a key position on the field would be a blessing and a pathway for Baron Victory.. Go for it..
March 21, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Rich, I will let you in on a secret or two...
In our last game agains you I was told YOUR team mate hit our pitcher in the foot.
Another of your teammates is the only senior player I have heard openly say he was going to try to hit that pitcher because He hated him... He said that and swing at the pitcher at least 12 times.
So please.... Get off your high horse.... Middle is part of the game. Trying to hit a pitcher on purpose is not. No one on our team is aiming for any pitcher.
This issue is nothing new to those of us that faced powerful hitters in our youth... We adapted... Playing a five man, having our pitchers "gear up" and pitch inside. We have been adapting since the late eighties/early nineties... Where have you been?
In closing.... I would be all for going back to single wall aluminum for the 50/55s.
I'd even agree to a screen where either the pitcher is not allowed to field a hit ball or the screen is called foul.
But, I am not for some, you can't hit between the ss and secon baseman crap.
March 21, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Rich, I will let you in on a secret or two...
In our last game agains you I was told YOUR team mate hit our pitcher in the foot.
Another of your teammates is the only senior player I have heard openly say he was going to try to hit that pitcher because He hated him... He said that and swing at the pitcher at least 12 times.
So please.... Get off your high horse.... Middle is part of the game. Trying to hit a pitcher on purpose is not. No one on our team is aiming for any pitcher.
This issue is nothing new to those of us that faced powerful hitters in our youth... We adapted... Playing a five man, having our pitchers "gear up" and pitch inside. We have been adapting since the late eighties/early nineties... Where have you been?
In closing.... I would be all for going back to single wall aluminum for the 50/55s.
I'd even agree to a screen where either the pitcher is not allowed to field a hit ball or the screen is called foul.
But, I am not for some, you can't hit between the ss and secon baseman crap.



I don't even know where to begin.. A player on my team hit your pitcher in the foot? When did this happen? No Idea what you are talking about!

As far as others going after someone on the mound, We all would to protect our pitcher... Problem with you is you don't do it to protect someone, you do it because it's the easy to get a hit through a pitcher, but have total disregard for his safety.

We haven't blown up your pitcher! not while I was playing..Perry has been my friend for 25 years, I'm not going to blow him up because of you blowing up our pitcher!

Your last statement is SS to Second.... My issue is with the 4foot area from the middle of the mound that you explore always! big difference.

No High horse here.. just a resonable Softball player that states it like it is.. you talk about the great hitters of the 80 and 90s... Bob Newman wasn't blowing up the middle... Paid ball players playing softball weren't blowing up the middle... Yes eveyone once in awhile makes a mistake and sends one up there...but you make no bones about it and go through the pitcher time and time again.


You have lost respect of a lot of people over this, it's your deal. Once again, we don't play you much... So you truly nothing to worry about!
March 22, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
well playing against the kids last nite and pitching,i had 5 or 6 balls hit back up the middle,no crying just kept playing,didn't even tell them it was not nice,oh i got 5 easy outs,messed up the 6th b/c of my throw trying to get someone at the plate,instead of getting the easy one at 1b........play on.....
March 22, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Rich,

Your team mate openly talking about trying to hit a pitcher was not doing it in any form of retaliation. Other then he didn't like the guy.

Your team mate Bob is the one that hit a ball through Perry in our last game... I didn't see it.... But like I wrote.... One of my team mates said it hit Perry in the foot.

The real problem is both you and Joe have openly talked about attacking me. Joe even went do far as to use the terms kill, die and attack with a bat in multiple emails.

What would you think if someone told you before the game (i will use your words) that if you hit a ball that struck our shortstop or third baseman your not getting to the parking lot in one piece.

the game is dangerous.... It's been dangerous for many years. I would never consider pitching without gearing up and I will never not play a five man when I think a hitter is going through the middle of the field for a single.

Somewhere along those years of playing with and against Bobby Newman I can't remember him going crazy over middle shots... And there were a lot of them... Maybe he was like you said in league.... Did he pitch in league?
March 22, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
324 posts
I always thought the best thing about kids is that they grow up. Maybe not...
March 22, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Tim, I can't control what anyone wants to do when at bat.. I only can raise the level of awareness of the gentlemans rule of not blowing up the pitcher..

I don't remember BobGate hitting perry at all and only remember Bobby Babtist hitting a week roller to perry... Our team didn't go middle in that game despite having a good reason too.

As far as attacking you, the threat is there for anyone who goes after a pitcher and thinks there will be no retaliation.. don't hit our pitcher and you won't have any problems.

Newman got mad at me once when I hit one shot 5 foot to the left of his pitcher.. he was catching at the time.. I told him I was no where near the pitcher and wouldn't hit our friend James to get a hit. He calmed down and we are still friends.. End of story..


At the end of the Day Tim, when you hit through anyones pitcher you will make your own bed... I am just trying to help you with a new philosphy of between pitcher and second or short... I can only lead a horse to water, I can't make him drink it.. it's your life. do what you have to.. We will do the same!
March 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Please allow me to interject. =)

titan, you are correct. Maybe not.....

As for retaliation, absolutely. NOT for hitting middle, it is part of the field and the pitcher has a glove. But if there is any real sign of bad intent, you better believe it. And not retaliation against a teammate (i.e. the other pitcher). That is weak and very cowardly. That guy is most likely an innocent bystander. You go after the perpetrator. What kind of man has evidence of intent like that and does not deal with it?
March 22, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Actually Rick, Bob not gatehouse hit what ended up being a double right trough perry....
That a way to avoid my question about how you would feel if I used your threats and put the SS and third baseman in the sentence instead of the pitcher.
They are all the same as the pitcher as far as I am concerned. None of them should be aimed at... All of them should show self responsibility to protect themselves. And none of them are the batters responsibility to protect.
I still cannot figure out.. If your teams so worried about middle shots... Why you continue to leave your pitcher out their with no gear and no five man.
March 22, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Timmy, I didn't avoid your question about threats.. you can take them however you want.. If I was pitching and you hit me and caused me harm I would do triple to you. Is that a threat.. If you hurt our pitcher and we have warned you not to, we would retaliate! is that a threat? Like I said you make your own bed.. I think it's a class guy that will try to avoid the pitcher and it's a jackass that will go through the pitcher.. I'm sure 95 percent of the softball community agrees with me.. and there is always the 5 percent that don't get it! That's all!

We don't play 5 man.. We are not going to play 5 man except when we want to.. 90 percent of the time we will play 4 man outfield.. it's our choice. Your hitting will never dictate it.. We would walk you before we had to make a change FYI.. Hell, if you get to out of hand with your hitting through the pitcher other teams might walk you too. that would mean the only reason you would be on softball field is to stroll to first base.. you need a fielder for yourself, you need a pitch runner. and the bat is taken out of your hands... Just a little insite to your future games playing the Barons FYI
March 22, 2012
Tim Millette
477 posts
Rich... I hate to break the news to you but... Up the middle of the field is the best chance to get a hit against you guys. I think anyone that wants to beat tje Barons should know that the middle is wide open against you.
Hitting anywhere else against your four man infield is reducing the cannves to beat you. Your pitcher throws a very good high deep pitch... That pitch and your inability to play a five man infield screams out for balls to be hit up the
Middle.... I am sorry if this hurts your feelings but that's the truth. Your putting your pitcher in jeopardy... That's something our team doesn't do... We protect our pitcher as much as we can with a five man... It's nothing new... My teams have been doing it since the late 80s.
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