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Discussion: GSC Bats

Posted Discussion
March 12, 2012
Mac 21
3 posts
GSC Bats
This is Steve McKinlay. I play with Demolition GSC. For the record, I partnered with Bill Gateley over a year ago, first to perfect the Veteran bat being built in China, and ultimately to build a new bat in the United States. The process of building this bat has taken far longer than we originally anticipated, but it is far better than we could have hoped for. My motivation to get in to the bat business was because I was tired of spending thousands of dollars, and seeing my teammates spend thousands of dollars, on bats that were breaking. In the last month, it was discovered that Bill Gateley had been perpetuating misrepresentations about GSC without my knowledge. Bill is now legally disassociated from GSC completely. Since Bill’s departure, I have received multiple notices of faulty GSC bats sold and promises of replacement, that I had no knowledge of. I will honor those replacements. I am continuing the manufacturing process of the new Veteran Core bat. We will introduce it by May. We are gearing up for full scale production and inventory reserves so that we are ready for sales. I will honor any bat breakage issues for any GSC bats, past and future. You may contact me directly at steve@gscbats.com but I prefer you call me on our toll free number (888) 459-7040. My hope is that you will be patient as we bring this bat to market. It is 100% made in the USA, something we all can be proud to be a part of.
March 12, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Steve, I believe this is what the players have been waiting to read, Good luck to you.
March 12, 2012
Ernies 53
Men's 50
23 posts
Yes,Good job for stepping up to the plate!
March 13, 2012
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Mac21, if this bat ever gets to market (players have been waiting a long, long time) and performs as wished for (equal pop to Combat, Miken, etc.) and lasts as hoped for (much, much longer than other fragile composites) you will soon dominate the market. Thousands of guys are waiting for a hot bat that will not break under a couple of hundred swings. Be sure you know how to increase your production run if positive customer satisfaction reports come flooding in. Your decision to honor replacement promises will go a long way toward building customer loyalty.
March 13, 2012
udaplaya
91 posts
Please don't do what reebok has done. They promised performance and durability, and judging by the never-ending posts on here regarding their bats, they have failed miserably.

In talking to players around here, Mikens and Reeboks can be lumped as one...great performance, weak durabilty. i hope you the best, but i think we have reached the tipping point on the trade-off between those two issues - gonna have to dial back the performance to get a longer lasting bat.

March 13, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Omar, not sure it is realistic to expect any bat to give you both the performance of the Ultras and the durability you are looking for. Just not the nature of the beast, or of thin-walled bats.

Guys just can't have their cake and eat it too.

uda, getting old guys to be willing to give up performance at this point is asking a LOT.
March 13, 2012
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Gary19, I agree with your analysis on current composites—can't have both thin shell power and durability. Doesn't change my opinion that IF such a bat were developed, it would dominate the market. Many players are now addicted to the long ball that senior bats bring. Doubt if I would be the first to buy it. I'm one of those arguing for a return to non-composites in the interest of improving the game and drawing back the millions who have given up on home-run softball.
March 13, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
My feel is the gsc veteran bat will be as advertised. My first thoughts were the bat would be just for seniors needing a competitive bat that wouldn't break. On second thought I bet the bat will be a boom for doctering. Maybe it won't be shaved but I remember the fake label market. Cheaters will find a way. Anyway the prospect is interesting.
March 13, 2012
ChiPrimeMarty
Men's 55
71 posts
Steve, thanks for the communication; much appreciated. In addition to honoring replacements of faulty GSC bats, will you be honoring purchases of bats that were paid for but never received? I paid for the new 2011 GBA on Sep 13, 2010 and am still waiting.

Thanks,
Marty
March 14, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
CAPT, which "prospect" is interesting? The prospect of shaving the gsc veteran, or the unrealistic prospect that a thin-walled, high-performance bat can also be durable?
March 14, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Omar-I have to disagree that there are 'millions' that have given up because of home run softball. Most guys that have given up have chosen not to play for a myriad of reasons like kids and grandkids, injuries, lack of the will to do what it takes to be competitive any more, the wish to travel with a spouse instead of play, and a myriad of other reasons. I have talked to many, many players that have quit, and only ONCE has someone said it was because of the bats.
Talking to players at all levels, I would venture to say,(based on MY observations and not a controlled study), that there are more people playing because of the bats and what they can do now. 2 years ago I would have bet otherwise.
The 'home run derby' conception really doesn't kick in until you get to majors and major plus, and those guys are there because they can hit. AAA and AA really have very few HR's with 3 being the limit. We (Desperados) rarely hit more than that, even with the walk instead of an out this year in 2 tournaments. SSUSA has figured out we like the bats in general. I would be surprised if they even consider a change in the near future.
March 14, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Clearly "millions" was just said as intentional exaggeration for effect.

The "fact" that more are playing because of "the bats and what they can do now" is probably a pretty true but also pretty sad commentary on the fragile egos of old guys.

And while agreed that home runs don't factor into AA and AAA, the bats certainly do increase hitting/offense with the added ball speed getting through the infield and through gaps in the outfield, so clearly even at those levels the special bats do play a major role in what the senior game has become.
March 14, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
I heard it advertised that the solid core veteran bat could not be altered, presumably because you could not shave a solid core. The present thin walled senior bats can not be shaved much because they are fragile already. I just think cheaters will find a way to alter the bat, perhaps with fake label's. Both the prospect of seeing if the bat will be altered and the first high performance solid core, senior bat, with a warranty is interesting. I am both optimistic and realistic by nature. I wish the best to Steve and his company.
March 14, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Any new bat carries hope with it, but it will be tough to outperform the Ultras. Outlast? Sure. Outperform? Very difficult.
March 14, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
It really doesn't take a cheater to find a way.If comes with a sticker, you can remove the sticker and drill a hole through the core. No shaving involved. Of course, you would take away some of the life of the bat.
March 14, 2012
Paco13
376 posts
Steve, as everybody else on this board we wish you the best and I said before you can send by bat once you make some money and get out of the red. I already have a senior bat so I am in no hurry. Even though you were thinking about us one of the problems that you might have is that if this bat truly is all that and then some...other companies via reverse-engineering will have the same concept out in no time. I do not believe that your patents assuming that you have some are not like the pharmaceuticals that nobody can make generic drugs until 5-10 years down the line in order for the pharmauceticals to make their money. This is an overcrowded market with some heavy hitters already out there. Looking at just numbers assuming that you are 700k already invested you will have to sell around 4,000bats at $200 to barely come out of the red. Those are a lot of bats. Again Good luck.
March 14, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
343 posts
What I can't understand is how a lot of you seemed perched on a cliff in anticipation of the next "hero" bat. Most of us know and and have read about the last "hero" named Melee. Now that he's turning out to be Clark Kent and not Superman some are turning the page to GSC.We all know that "POP"and Durability are not likely to happen within the same bat-yet some are buyin this bat before it hit's the marketplace. There are enough bats on the Market to satisfy all of the egos that exist today and even more that are durable enough (AND hot enough) that we don't or won't blog about. Trust me. There will be no bat hotter that the Ultra II. Period. There will be bats more durable but,none hotter (that we will be allowed to use). Boombah Cannon comes to mind. Lastly, there are Major Bat Companies that have a ton of more money and a lot more Engineers and Technology than GSC but,we're being told GSC has the Golden patent that's going to have everyone getting 300 thousand swings and be able to hit a faster than the space shuttle.(Exageration but, PT Barnum comes to mind!).Some have already been invested in one for the better part of two years.I say "invested " because all that you've done so far is help GSC with their start up costs. There is a need for a more durable bat but,is there really a need for anything "hotter" than what we already have? Miken and Combat are sitting at the top of the Senior softball Bat mountain.They make BATS not shoes not promises. Made in America or not most of us are already swinging our "HERO BAT" Good luck GSC. You have a lot of promises to live up to.
March 14, 2012
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Gary19, thanks for the support, but I thought of saying hundreds of thousands, yet the ASA statistics show that it is MILLIONS that no longer play organized softball at any level. The only thing that is illusory is that millions of women players now compete, thanks to the now obvious impact of women’s softball at middle school, high school, and college level over the past thirty years These women go on to play in women’s leagues and coed leagues and their emergence has kept ASA membership numbers up to compensate for the loss of men.

The drop-off of millions I had in mind is not just senior players, but players at all ages. My son and grandson no longer play because of their loss of interest for a variety of factors: the emphasis on the long ball (my grandson is not a power hitter); the loss of ability to field well because of the rapid pace of the ball (my grandson was an excellent infielder with soft hands); the widespread cheating to achieve even more power (which is what disgusted my son, a moral man); the dumbing down of balls by rec departments in an attempt to counteract cheating; and to some degree, hot double walls. Toss in the big egos of the home run hitters (and newbie home run hitters from hot bats and/or cheating) who want more and more power at the expense of defense and base running, and you have a formula for why so many have left the sport.

Webbie’s comments on the loss factor of kids, grandkids, injuries, wish to travel with a spouse are true, but when were they not true? Guys dropped out of softball for decades because of these factors. The lack of will to compete is not due entirely to character (or it also would always be true), but in some part to feeling denigrated for their defensive or base hitting skills because they can’t hit the bomb.

The shocking thing is that senior softball participation should be soaring! More and more older guys are in better health, with better nutrition, and stopping smoking. Modern medicine has worked miracles at restoring knees and other joints. Supplements and pain killers deal with arthritis, diabetes, and a host of other ailments that used to end a softball career. Oldsters have more disposable income because of home values and generous retirement plans and the elimination of forced retirement at 65. And these seniors are the same ones who enjoyed softball during the boom decades when softball was king, so they already love the game. So where are they?

According to popular myth, they should be clamoring to play with the hot senior bats and the resultant boost to their ego (some are now sluggers that never were in their youth). So where are they? Why are association team numbers flat when they should be growing yearly? Why is tournament participation down? Why are softball complexes dark some evenings? Why do guys resist playing at Major + level, a slugger’s heaven? Maybe there are some good answers, but it seems to me that this slide began with the introduction of double walls, and especially with the composite bats about 10 years ago.

Sorry guys, this rant doesn’t change my opinion that if the GSC bat is what it is supposed to be, it will be immensely popular with those who are still playing because they enjoy, or at least tolerate, the hot conditions, so I didn’t mean to hijack the thread.
March 14, 2012
Paco13
376 posts
Titan, You are semi-correct. Some us purchased the original bat which cracked after just few swings 50 or so not sure, then Bill came with the wonderful idea that he will replace the bat and offer another one for just $99.00. So i guess few of us took advantage of the deal...So yes we donated to the cause and I believe that it was a good cause. No big deal few hundreds gone...I am certain that we will live and move forward. I have no hope of this bat ever coming to fruition and doubted very serious that can compete with any senior bat already in the market...Mis dos centavos.
March 14, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Omar, you're welcome.

Interesting point along these lines. Some years back a guy now probably in his 40s who I had coached in CYO basketball when he was a kid quit the game because he got tired of "playing" 3B but never getting a ball hit to him as he just stood there watching guy after guy just try to jack balls out. This guy had excellent power himself, but just didn't want to watch home run derby under the guise of a "game".

So yea, I know of some young guys too who are just turned off by what the game has become.
March 14, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
I don't care if the gsc veteran bat out performs, just that it be legal, perform competitively, and have a warranty. People who do not break their bats are good with what they have. Same for those who care little about expenses. I remain optimistic and hopefull a small bat company like GSC comes through.
March 19, 2012
etxdave
13 posts
They have at least one bat! Click the link below.

www.gscbats.com
April 2, 2012
ChiPrimeMarty
Men's 55
71 posts
Steve, how about an update? I've emailed you a couple times the last month and haven't received a reply.
April 2, 2012
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
Omar as you have mentioned many reasons softball is declining you fail to mention many other ones just as important such as many youths years ago started watching more tv, playing soccer, spending so much time on computers, talking on phones many of them found other things they wanted to do, - - so I don't see how you can blame the bats. I truly believe there are many reasons for the decline and the bats being used probably is one of the least reasons. There are simply fewer people coming up through the ranks. Many older adults don,t want to take a chance playing anything they have any posibility getting hurt doing,especially with the cost of things. So please be fair on your views. Its not just the bats.
April 2, 2012
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Saddlebrookrick, you name some factors that have resulted in the decrease of younger male players in their 20s and 30s, maybe even 40s—more TV addiction, preference for soccer, computer fascination, etc. Certainly factors, although sad ones that guys in average physical condition should prefer sitting in front of a TV or computer instead of out under the lights enjoying exercise and the camaraderie of team sports. Not a good future for our country.

But, of course, there is also the exercise craze that has awakene older adults who are trying to deal with obesity and follow the advice of concerned physicians. Gyms have boomed, many more people are walking and biking, YMCAs are crowded, aerobics are big (mostly for women, it seems), and this emphasis should counteract some of the above.

But my point concerns the 50s, 60s, and 70s. When men in this age group were young, they were NOT into soccer, nor were they spending time with Facebook or Twitter or other social interaction processes. They were playing softball! and enjoying it! It was part of the boomtime of softball in the 80s and 90s when many new complexes were built to accommodate the interest in softball and when many associations like SSUSA saw a growth in interest and in teams. Where are these guys?

They loved softball when they were 30...and 40....and 50. Some played more than one night a week. Slow pitch softball was growing in popularity after the decrease during the pitcher-dominant fast pitch days. Why aren't they still playing today, 20 or 30 years later? They are healthier, they have more leisure time and more disposable income (they didn't get caught up in the housing busts because they already had reasonably priced homes), they are still sports fans, but they aren't playing senior softball. What changed? I suggest it was the introduction of the composite bat that radically changed the game and brought with it new rules to accommodate the power surge. These guys are dropping out of senior softball everywhere. What other reason?
April 3, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
According to Steve: "We will introduce it by May". That said, it was already done via the SHORT video they posted. There is a very big difference between "introducing" a product and said product actually being available for sale or being sold.
So this month should be a real tell all.
Not sure I'd hold my breath waiting on it, but I do hope those who went into this to get a good bat, GET THAT GOOD BAT.
April 3, 2012
Full Monty
80 posts


MAY OF WHAT YEAR??

2424?



April 3, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Good question. One can "hope" its within 27 days.
April 3, 2012
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
Omar I live in a retirement community and I go to the gym here 3 times a week and I am always trying to get the men there to join one of the 4 leagues we have here at saddlebrooke and most say they tried it but they hurt this or that muscle and they just prefer to work out at the gym or after getting pulled muscles they promised their wives they would quit playing. I have never heard one person say they quit because of bats here. We also have different leagues here for different abilities and 3 of the leagues you can not use hot bats, all leagues are showing slight declines in number of people. To blame it all on the bats is just not right.
April 3, 2012
ChiPrimeMarty
Men's 55
71 posts
I'd just like some reassurance that after paying for a bat in September 2010 -- and not receiving a bat yet -- Steve will honor that sale and send me a new Veteran Core (or whatever the product will be named). I'd also like a reasonable expectation of when that will happen, as I am down to 1 senior bat after breaking 3 in the last 2 years and I have 2 tournaments in May.

The fact that I haven't gotten a response on my least 2 emails (simple queries, not nastygrams) is decidedly NOT reassuring.
April 3, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
343 posts
Is anyone aware if this bat has gone thru any kind of testing and or been approved for use by any Senior Association(s).
April 3, 2012
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Saddlebackrick, when have the conditions you cite NOT been a factor. There have always been men who tried to play again but pulled this or that muscle, whose wives wish they would not play, who prefer gym exercise to playing softball, etc. Nothing new there.

My concern is with the guys who used to play softball, like the sport, played up into their 40s, maybe even 50s, were even playing senior softball 15 years ago, and then the hot bats appeared, and many, many of those guys have stopped playing. I'm not sure they HATE senior bats, so that it is the first reason that comes to mind when they wonder why they don't find softball as much fun anymore. They might not have thought it through to realize that it is the hot bats that have lessened their interest.

The guy who pulled a hamstring? Maybe it was chasing too many balls in the gap because the fields now have to be enormous to contain the hot bats. The guy who pulled a groin or tweaked a shoulder? Maybe it was because the ground ball whizzed by him before he could field it, a ball that he fielded easily with a single wall. The guy who always took pride in his game and worked hard with batting practice and conditioning? Maybe it is the frustration of seeing out of shape guys hitting the long ball, or smaller singles hitters like me now putting it to the fence with the hot bat. So their excuses would be: pulled muscles; game has passed me by; not as much fun; not needed like the days when my glove and baserunning made me valuable. The hot bat is a factor in all of these.
April 3, 2012
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
Omar we have many more injuries in the leagues that don't use the hot bats. As I stated before I have not heard anyone here say they have quit playing because of the bats. Just because someone played in their 30s 4os 50s doesn't mean they have the desire to play in their 60s-70s, many of these people have happy lives without any dangers of softball regardless of the bats or balls. I can see now that you can't change my mind and I not yours - - so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
April 3, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
403 posts
Any time you walk away from something for any reason, injury, job, family etc., it is very easy to not have a desire to do that activity again.

Could be that is why many men are not playing ball or stop playing softball as seniors.

C
April 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Just a thought. I might not be the bats per se, but all of the silly rules they contributed to causing.
April 4, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
Saddlebrookrick----I agree with you, not fair to blame lack of partisipation on the bats. I've played in several large leagues, to a man, NEVER saw or heard any complaint about Senior bats, let alone not playing because of them. By complaint, I'm referring to "hotness", not other things like the life span of the bats. Quite the contrary; saw a revolt when one league suggested they be banned. That revolt also included the lower division players. I think you'd find lots more aren't playing anymore because of 1. lack of $$$$ and the increase cost of play and travel, 2. lost interest because of being misrated(can't compete where SSUSA rated them, so lost the desire, ook the level playing field away), and 3. change in mindset as one ages. (the less avid just plain got tired!).
April 4, 2012
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Bomber#7, I'm surprised at your experience. I don't play in several large leagues, but have played tournament ball for years and I have had many, many conversations with players who don't like the hot bats, and especially with those who no longer play because of them.

If you only talk to guys who are playing, you are talking to guys who like, or at least tolerate, the hot bats, or who love softball so much they will play whatever the conditions. My concern is over those who love softball and yet are no longer playing.

Sometimes their reasons have to do with the consequences of the hot bats: fields have gotten larger than they can physically cover; balls come faster through the infield than they can physically stop; balls are coming faster at them (pitchers especially) than their aging reflexes so it has become more dangerous; the five-run rule (due to hot bats) is not popular with them; the predominance of home runs and the long ball by formerly singles or doubles hitters is not fun for them; the loss of balance with batting power valued more than batting average, base running skill, fielding skill, or smarts; etc.

Sure money plays a part, but hasn't it always? Most older guys are not hurting much with the recession—in fact it has stabilized some prices such as motels and tournament entry fees (haven't gone up in northern California for 4 years), and gas prices aren't much higher than they were 4 years ago. Older guys didn't buy their houses in the last 10 years and don't find themselves underwater. Older guys might get hit by a layoff, but about half of senior softball players in northern California, for example, are already retired and living on pensions and savings (which low inflation is protecting).

Misrating is a frustration, but I have never met a guy who stopped playing for that reason. He just moved to another team or the team itself broke up and everybody moved.

Change in mindset I agree with, but this has always been the case and doesn't explain the recent drop off of senior players, especially in an age when the number of active healthy senior men is increasing!
April 4, 2012
Paco13
376 posts
Since you all hijacked the heck out this one. Here is my opinion even though I am 100% against senior bats, I believe that more seniors are playing softball today due to the senior bats than stopping because of it. Mis dos centavos.

PR Ninja out.
May 18, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
In March Steve said we could contact him at gscbats.com or call 8884597040. I have attempted repeatedly these contacts with no reply. How about a reply, or was this only to deal with problems with broken bats, oh wait, the bat is unbreakable. THE BAT WAS TO BE INTRODUCED BY MAY, AND MOST WERE PATIENT. Whats up.

May 18, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Capt D5,
I know your aware of the following post but after all consider the how honest they all have been... Oh sorry, they weren't, now there is integrity.
May 15, 2012
Coachgary
4 posts
The long awaited GSC Core bat will be available shortly. If you live in the Phoenix, AZ metro area we will be conducting demo nights in June. Stay tune for more information.
Coachgary your AZ rep.

Notice too, the word WE, appears there is another so & so involved in the "Real story"
that is out there. Oh, from originating source.

Perhaps the bat is as strong as steel and light as air, now there is a chuckle.
Couldn't resist.
May 18, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Capt D5,
I know your aware of the following post but after all consider the how honest they all have been... Oh sorry, they weren't, now there is integrity.
May 15, 2012
Coachgary
4 posts
The long awaited GSC Core bat will be available shortly. If you live in the Phoenix, AZ metro area we will be conducting demo nights in June. Stay tune for more information.
Coachgary your AZ rep.

Notice too, the word WE, appears there is another so & so involved in the "Real story"
that is out there. Oh, from originating source.

Perhaps the bat is as strong as steel and light as air, now there is a chuckle.
Couldn't resist.
May 18, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Paco,
I'd bet you use them just like all they other players that are against them do as well.
Why not, as long as their legal, use the best equip, what eve it is, in your opinion.
I still haven't come across any one using CU31 wood or any other out dated bat since the 90's in Tourney ball. I do in league though. All first timers for sr ball.
Keep your money we are all entitled to our opinions.
Are you going to Reno?
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