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Discussion: Need your input

Posted Discussion
March 29, 2012
cheezhed1
Men's 65
17 posts
Need your input
I, like many other senior softball players, am an Ultra II (red endloaded model) user. I also, like many other senior softball players, am getting tired of the "roll of the dice" life span of the Ultra II. I am considering buying the end loaded black Combat Centenarian or the end loaded Reebok Melee. I don't play alot of tournaments anymore other than the Florida Half century tournaments twice a month (50 and 60 divisions). I would like your input, brief comparison, and what the best choice would be.
March 29, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
i would go with the combat.i have owned the reebok and it broke at less then 400 swings,100-125 of them just to open it up.i been using combats since 2006 and never have had one break before 750+ swings.....the combat is right there with the pop,maybe 10' less........
March 29, 2012
Ernies 53
Men's 50
23 posts
I agree with mad dog, have 500 plus on a mid load centenarian and no cracks, did have a plug come loose but reglued, That was a 2010 model and they have since fixed that issue!
March 30, 2012
colt
40 posts
Also the grey original and the MM blue great bats with the grey possibly be the most durable senior bat,course these just my(could be wrong) opinions.
March 30, 2012
JBTexas
Men's 60
248 posts
I don't get it, I've played senior play for 12 years and broke one miken II, my current one is on it's third season and I have a new one in my bag that my wife got me for Christmas that is still in the wrapper. Guess I don't hit the ball hard enough to break one. I one bat that did break was when three other players on my team were also using it.
March 30, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
jb,that is what i'm thinking also for you....DOH,LOL.......
March 30, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Well for whatever it's worth, what kind of hitter are you or do you want to be? Power or singles hitter? If it's not important for you to go yard, save some money and buy a durable metal bat. What reason could anyone have for using anything different if your not hitting the long ball? JMO
March 30, 2012
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
JB ... I'd be happy to break in your Christmas gift!

#19
March 30, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Pricer, the senior bats do provide much more than just home run power. Balls get through both infield and outfield gaps much quicker, which is a big benefit to the hitter.

And they also have a much larger sweet spot than any aluminum bat I can recall, another benefit.
March 30, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
cheezhed1......The Combat Centenarian just takes longer to break in. That will allow you to use it for batting practice. Good choice. Gary's right about the senior bat versus an aluminum bat, but you knew that already.
March 30, 2012
Full Monty
76 posts


THE COMBAT CENTENARIAN IS A GREAT BAT.....

AFTER THE BREAK IN PERIOD....

AND BEFORE THE END CAP COMES LOOSE!!!!!



March 30, 2012
canIjack
Men's 60
319 posts
Go with Combat, you'll have fun breaking it in.

The Reebok will only teez you(you’ll hit some long shots, and even some tape measure shots, and then it cracks! You look at the bat and it says "Man wasn't that fun", "What do ya say, let’s get another one". Don't do it, don't buy it. I bought 4 in a year. All Reebok bats cracked inside a year, But I was Hooked on the POP and sound of the home runs. Go with Combat!!!!! Don’t go thru, what I went thru. “Reebok withdraws Rehab”
March 30, 2012
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
Pricer, one thing to take into consideration is how you will be played defensively if you come to the plate with a metal bat. Speaking as an outfielder, if a hitter comes to the plate with a metal bat, we normally move in. This gives you a much smaller area into which you can hit safely. However, if the same hitter comes to the plate with a senior bat, we are less likely to come in as far . Just the threat of the long ball that a senior bat brings is beneficial. Just my thoughts.
March 31, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Hombre, thanks for the input. I was aware of this, but was just trying to drive a point home regarding some of the issues we have as senior softball players. We read post about protective equipment and eliminating the middle of the field to protect the pitchers! The answer is right in front of us. I read people all the time trying to justify the use of todays equipment by insisting we had all the same issues with previous balls & bats. Bullsh*t! It was NEVER even remotely close to the ball speed today. We have players today hitting the ball with speeds & length that the top players in the country didn't do in their prime. Could you imagine Ritch's Superior or the Steeles teams in their prime using these super sticks? Yea I know alot of their bats were different than the ones we bought, but that even gives more credence to my point. They still never hit them with the speeds & length that players half their size and skill sets are! This my rant for now. Does anyone else see it this way or did I live in the glass bubble during my career?
March 31, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Jeff, you are ABSOLUTELY correct. As a kid I watched Jim Galloway short-hop a maintenance building in Parma 300' from the plate with a wooden bat and God knows what kind of crappy ball in the 60s. Where would his ball have wound up with an Ultra 2 and today's balls?

Again, I post:

I have tried to list the pros and cons of the senior bats.

Pros - guys can do in the 50s and 60s what many weren't in their 20s and 30s.

Cons- Pitcher and corner infielder safety; Need for time limits, run limits, and HR limits; Need for pitcher's halo, PPRs, and/or pitcher boxes; Need for hockey goalie equipment; Need to make infield look like a miniature golf hole.

Am I missing anything in either category?
March 31, 2012
kbl
Men's 60
523 posts
GUYS.....i, like other seniors, use a senior bat, but what do you think the attendance would be of most tournaments if there would be no senior bats???......it would be just like ASA up til last year...almost nil....just my 2c....thanks, ken
March 31, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
pricer i wouldn't tell bruce meade(510' shot)mike macenko(which i personally saw hit a ball close to that in 86) that or any of the big boys back then.now it is resmondo,and dan smith,same thing different names thats all and they are using the same bats we can get our hands on now(non-senior)....

you say get rid of the bats,who is gonna replace them for the individual that gives them up,will the mfg'er,don't think so,best thing to do is replace the ball,the least expensive way to go......we have been using the 52 ball at one park going on our second year now,no problem with it.my other park i play in which includes the senior league we have in the area has adopted the 52 ball.in our senior league there has been NO crying about it.in fact a lot of the players like the ball.......
March 31, 2012
kbl
Men's 60
523 posts
MD...good luck on your new team and you are right about the balls...thank you, ken
March 31, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
MD, I personaly played games against those players and many others that played at that level. We can talk all we want about how players then hit bombs that we'll all talk about until the end of time. Meade would have hit that same 510' shot over 600' with todays standards and the Big Cat would have hit 1400-1500 homeruns instead of the 800 or 900 he hit in his record setting years. My point is exactly the point you made. We'll talk about certain performances back in the day, just to give some sort of credibility to justify are using the equipment of today. Also, it's not the responsibility of the associations to replace or refund any equipment that become unusable from wear or rules. just like no one said you had to go buy them. We all make choices and have opinions and I enjoy the conversations that take place here. Just get a tad annoyed when grownups start using analogies that if our kids used them, we'd tell them to quit talking stupid and use some logic! JMO
March 31, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
KBL, do you really feel that most players feel that way about the bats and that they would stop playing? If so, then most need to shutup and play the game. Middle wide open and no protective equipment waviers and let the chips fall where they may. Stop screaming about saftey, cause they really don't care! They all want saftey and protection from what?
March 31, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
pricer,i'm not sure that players today are trying to say,"well they did it back then,why not today"...i think it is more of,hey we have new and better equipment,lets use it instead of the old stuff we used to use....not saying the assoc have to replace anything that has been used or wore out,but when you go to telling players they have to buy new bats,at $200+ a pop,something is gonna give.players don't want to have to replace their arsenal,like ASA made people do when they went thru their bat banning,ASA play took a hit back then.the mfg'ers had to absorb some of that cost with a couple of the ASA bats that got banned,almost before they got on the market.

just change the ball and save the players a big cost,is what i'm saying......
March 31, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
kbl.........You are correct about how seniors feel about the senior bats. Just look in the dugouts. What bats do you see. One can play with single wall bats local if that is what one wants.

Pricer........Not many screaming about safety. Just the same few.

Then you have Gary complaining about being able to hit further than he could when he was 20. Seniors don't care about what you or others could do as kids. They only care about what they can do themselves against their peers today.
March 31, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
mmm galloway only hitting a ball that would land between 295-300'...hell i have done that,along with a few of my military teammates.we played on fences that were any where from 250-275' when we were using wood bats (before going to metal in 72)and could put the ball 15-30' over the fence,so short hopping a ball at 300' object no great feat....seems that guy wasn't as good as you say......
March 31, 2012
surf88
Men's 60
845 posts
I've been using my Vector-O lately and like it. Same technology as our Melee senior bat but with a thicker wall. Takes a little longer to break in but has good pop. Not quite as much as the Melee but good and is very strong. Mine has over 1,500 hits on it and I let a lot of bigguns use it. Also has 1 year warranty. Not too many guys have used it as I understand.
Surf
April 2, 2012
neck10
476 posts
pricer if you want to go back to double wall demarini's bring back the dudley sb 12 night & day ball just hit a few of them in the parking lot in tc with my old worn out double wall.
April 2, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
Neck, you and some of the others are missing the point here. I'm not gonna change the game of softball by telling anyone what bat to use or not to use. What I'm trying to touch on is, stop bitching and moaning about all this saftey BS. If you want a safe game, change the parts of it you can change, not the fabric of the game we grew up playing. I'm just lost on the addiction the bats have on the players today. Protective gear, screens & the middle off limits is just absurd. Why would it matter if we played with a old Harwood CN100 and wooden bats. What changed? Did we stop being competitive somewhere along the lines here? We can't have it both ways, safety and the hottest equipment in the market. So, don't complain about safety if you really don't care. The solution is right in front of you, but most just refuse to acknowledge this.
April 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
"Neck, you and some of the others are missing the point here"
Gee, what a shock!

"We can't have it both ways, safety and the hottest equipment in the market."
This is the hypocrisy those who want their cake and eat it too just don't/can't comprehend.

"The solution is right in front of you, but most just refuse to acknowledge this."
Their egos just won't allow them to.

April 2, 2012
Tri18
563 posts
Combat has resolved the end cap issue with the black Centurian bat. The are tremendously durable and deliver great performance. Contact me if you need one or any other senior bat. Alan tricoach18@att.net 561-718-7504
April 2, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
ZZZZZZZZZZZ Its called Marine glue, every end cap problem has been resolved for sometime now.
April 6, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
973 posts
Can Jack, I broke two combats last year... and then broke a third one that never made it thru a round of batting practice... I had my yellow combat last me for most of the year and then two combats the Centinarian lasted me about month and the blue combat me 50 swings..done.. they told me the blue was the same as the yellow but I could see the barrel wasn't even close to being the same.. the Yellow had rings around it spaced inch apart.. No rings on the blue combat! Something changed. I am more about how long it last then the 5 to 10 feet of distance..
April 7, 2012
neck10
476 posts
pricer I played in the usssa tourneys in detroit in the 80's & nobody went up the middle when we could hit all thos hr's we stayed away we had a guy up here that hit middle only & you couldnt get out of the way it just didnt hurt as much back then also me & your buddy rob took batting practice one day in Tc we put the screen up & he used mty demirini single wall if I didnt have that screen I wouldnt be here but I dont think sleedee would have hit it at me with no screen.
April 7, 2012
neck10
476 posts
& I dont bitch about anything in the game & will never go middle unless the other team goes after our pitcher for no reason then its open.
April 7, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
973 posts
Pricer, I don't care what ball combination you use.. if you take aim at the pitcher he will get hurt eventually.. doesn't matter what combination... first 45 feet of travel is lethal with anything.. Anyone who plays this game likes it when they hit a good balll.. I would be all for single wall metal bats and a good ball like they used in the early 90s.. But I think it fair to say they are never going to do that... My point is that you want to blame it on hot equipment and I am placing the blame on those who chose to blow the pitcher up. I played 40s three years ago and they had a protection box... Had zero problem with that.. I'm all for no rule changes however.. We just need individuals and there teammates to police themselves.
April 7, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
neck, why would you hit middle just because the other team does? How is hitting an innocent bystander better than taking your issue up with whoever hit at your pitcher, if that is what's bothering you?

If someone in a bar sucker punches one of your friends, are you going to go and sucker punch one of his?
April 8, 2012
cheezhed1
Men's 65
17 posts
The game we love has gone through many changes since we played in our 20's and 30's. While change can be good, it can also cause situations that are not in the best interst of the game. When associations try to make softball safer by banning bats and changing softball specifications, they're creating a smoke screen. Lets be real. We can't stop the technology used in manufacturing the bats. The ball is still going to go through the infield at a very high rate of speed regardless of it's core value and compression. We all know that injuries are part of the game. As an infielder and pitcher, I would like to think that nobody in senior softball would intenionally try to hurt or severly injure a fellow player. In my humble opinion, the only person that make a difference in the safety of the game is the person swinging the bat. We can't turn back the hands of time when either your were a home run hitter or you were not. Bat technology has changed that. To avoid those unfortunate injuries, we, as seniors, adjust our game according and try to play smarter. The older we get the better we used to be! Bottom line is, softball isn't broke, associations need to quit trying fix it!
April 8, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
973 posts
Cheeshed, I played in a Tourney a month ago.. we had old guys playing young guys.. Senior bats weren't allowed... so the the Old guys were doing what the 20s and 30s were doing today! Game has changed a bit... but the bottom line is there a good number of guys over 40 and 50 and some 60 that hit the ball as well as they did in their 20 and 30s..
April 8, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
cheezhead.........The associations are not trying to fix anything by banning senior bats. They are here to stay. In fact, ASA is now allowing senior bats in tournaments.

Local leagues are different. Your local sports directors can set their own rules for open league, co-ed, etc.

Some players on here just have a problem with those that would champion the hot bat, then speak of safety in the same sentence. Not all seniors are gentlemen. Some will go middle to "protect" their pitcher. I'm sure that a lot of pitchers have been fortunate to knock down or catch some of those liners that could have injured them. These un-gentlemen players are in the minority.

Like you said, softball isn't broke, have fun.
April 8, 2012
neck10
476 posts
gary 19 its called protecting your pitcher & usally all you have to do is say the middle is open & the other team will stop,I hit a pitcher by accident a couple of years ago in young ball I pulled my pitcher & I pitched the rest of the game even tho I didnt try to hit him I pitched anyway.
April 10, 2012
Tim Millette
465 posts
The only reason old guys are hitting like they used to do in their 20 and 30's is because back when they were young they were swinging single wall aluminum.

No one in the fifty plus age group has the hand speed they had when they were "young".

As far a 40 guys goes.....from my experience.... Many guys can still do what they were doing athletically in their mid 30's..... Just not for as long a duration.

But let's not kid ourselves..... Age takes its toll.... Foot speed, muscle densitity, eye sight, hand speed, flexibility, endurance catch up to all of us if we continue to play a sport.....

How many position players have competed in MLB in their fifties? Zero?
April 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
So you "protect" your friend in the bar by sucker punching his friend?

It is called being chicken crap and hiding behind special bats instead of confronting the 'perpetrator'.

Any game I have ever played in the middle is always open. It is part of the field. When we have to play "call your field" like we did when we were 10 and were playing 5 on 5, the game has really gone to hell.

So Tim, it all goes to using someone else's R&D. The oldest, slowest group wants to use bats no one under 50 is allowed to use. Still very interesting, and strange, to me.
April 10, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
mmm what would you do then if your getting lit up by the opposing team,while your pitching,really tell us how it should be......


if i see my pitcher getting lit up,i have no problem protecting him,(well except g-19 he doesn't need it).if the other pitcher is smart,maybe he'll say something to his teammates about it....

neck way to man up,i pitch a lot for the kids,and tell them to not worry about hitting middle if it is not done on purpose.i tell them i can protect myself with my glove and bat if need be.....i have always been a middle hitter,just never a pitcher hunter......
April 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Define "lit up". They are hitting up the middle, but with no apparent bad intent? I would do nothing more than my best to field the ball, just like at any other position. It is their job to get hits, mine to field what is near me.

If I have proof of bad intentions, I "speak" with whoever is causing the problem.

Again, you find it manly to take up the issue with an innocent bystander? Interesting, but kind of sad.
April 10, 2012
the answer
Men's 55
104 posts
I remember that we used steele core balls with warnings on them and 52 core balls...the bats were metal but we hit the balls just as hard as today...now the balls are worse and the bats better...its all about money..bats are alot more profitable then balls
April 10, 2012
the answer
Men's 55
104 posts
use 11 fielders and the screen to protect pitchers
April 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
So we need to change the fundamental way the game is played for the bats??? :(
April 10, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
if i have to define "lit up " for you,guess your not as smart as you tell us your are.
April 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Maybe I am not, since I have never been "lit up".

So why not define for me anyway, because it won't support your "point"?
April 10, 2012
JamesLG
295 posts

Gary19:

In our league the 40+ teams do use senior bats and if anybody does not like it they can go play somewhere else. It is that simple.

James
April 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Absolutely. And I am sure they like them. Who, I guess, doesn't like doing now what they might not have been 20 years ago without having to work really hard to do it? Even if it means a bunch of nonsense rules.
April 10, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
973 posts
the Answer.... you hit the nail on the head... We compete in open league with big strong bucks out of college.. there are a few of us old timers out there hitting them as far or farther than these strong young bucks.. we are using 44 375 yellow balls and ASA tested bats... So the thing is we are still plenty strong and hit them as far as when we were in our 20 and 30s.. been lucky with genes I guess. Recovery time and night vision are the biggest difference from 20 and 30s to now my 40s and now 51 year..

Maddog, lit up the middle is what it is.. Just glad most understand no matter what equipment you use, you can hurt the guy 40 feet from you.. so the Gentleman unwritten rule that 99 percent of the Softball guys go by is, you don't Blow up the pitcher, Lite up the middle, ect. going up and over or side to side is the way to play the game.. Anyone comparing baseball swing and the softball swing when you can change direction with anypitch in softball is just insane. We all know the accidents happen and the pitcher has to be ready, but to take aim at him is just not cool! I don't no a team in California that wouldn't be pissed if 7 balls were hit through their pitcher with any balls or bats!
April 10, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1936 posts
Mad dog-Those that don't play can't be lit up. Again he proves my point by not even knowing what 'lit up' is. This is too funny. Poor guy is so upset he can't utilize these bats all he can do is rail against them. Very sad.

Swing-maybe my 2 longest shots of the last 2 years have been with a USSSA freak with one estimated about 475. I have been challenged several times in league against the kids about the bats, but the umps tell them I have been hitting them like that for 40 years. (Qualification-we are playing at over 5000 feet, too) The kids aren't hitting them that far, so what should I conclude? There really are a lot of guys still hitting reasonably close to as well as they ever did.
April 10, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
973 posts
I know for a fact I am Webbie... Ask joe ranaldi what I did with an ASA bat the other night... We have big kids in there 20s and 30s in open league in SF and we still put it out there with them and farther.
April 10, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
973 posts
Webbie, I have been hitting BP for the first time in my life on a semi Regular basis with Joe and few others on tues and thurs.. I can tell you watching Joe Ranaldi pump the ball 350 at sea level with a 70 Senergy bat is amazing.. He's 64 years old! I am hoping I can hit like that for the next 14 years!
April 10, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
973 posts
that was a 70 dollar Senergy
April 11, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1936 posts
swing-I'm looking forward to playing on the same team with Joe. It could be fun. Watching Fred Purvis, Mike Adair, Steve Imlay, Ron Danoski hit has been entertaining. I can't imagine any of them have lost that much.
April 11, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Do you two want to slobber all over yourselves any more?

Thanks for a look into your circle jerk.
April 11, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
973 posts
Webbie, I felt a flea somewhere.. Anyway, I am sure you guys will have a blast with all that talent!
April 11, 2012
JamesLG
295 posts


Last year at the Western Nationals Joe spent a good 30 minutes talking to my boy and I about bats and hitting. My boy is just starting to play slowpitch and Joe did a better job than I could have explaining hitting. His time was much appreciated.

Thanks:

James
April 17, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
973 posts
Yep James, that is the Way Joe rolls.. he's a great guy and will try to help everyone around him! We are always trying to help each other in Batting practice when we get out of sync. I played against Joe in leagues for years and now I get to play with him... He's a wealth of information for sure.. We are still working on our games!
April 19, 2012
neck10
476 posts
gary 19 not my style Ill go toe to toe & if one of my friends is not causing the problem ,then yes Ill step up.what do you do if a team starts hitting the middle on your pitcher just say O dont do that.
April 19, 2012
garyheifner
331 posts
As usual Gary 19 doesn't remember much if anything. The U2 with todays TOURNAMENT balls (375/44) is a wash when you compare the aluminum bats and hot balls from the 60s, 70s and 80s. I pitched U-trip against some of the best players in the world during this era. They routinely hit Hrs 375-400' +. People wouldn't park in the 1st 3 or 4 rows of the parking lot. They hit shots up the middle you couldn't even react to. I displayed quite a few seam marks on my body each season. I remember one team called downtown shell out of Milwaukee that hit 15 Hrs against us in the 1st 2 innings without any nationaly known stars.

Last year at the 65AAA level, we played against the best teams in the USA at several regional nationals and World championships in Dalton and Phoenix. We also played about a half dozen major teams in qualifiers. There wasn't a team that had more than 2 or 3 guys capable of hitting an Hr. We had only one game all year that the opponents hit 3. Cut the crap that with senior bats EVERYONE is launching Hrs at will or that every player hits balls with 120 MPH exit speed. In recent years I have noticed the majority of players control singles hitting rather than trying to blast deep. The vast majority of 65 players have realized that a senior bat means a 280' fly out for most and are going for singles and batting averages. I got to watch 2 M+ powerhouses last year. "7" innings- no wind "5" Hrs total. The game, for those who play on the tournament trail, is just fine.
April 20, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Gary, you must have conveniently missed/forgotten the posts on here from many guys stating that balls hit with today's combo are going further than balls with most any combo from the past. And these are by guys in their 50s and 60s, not 20s and 30s. Yes, 25 year olds were hitting balls 400' before, now FIFFTY-FIVE year old guys are. And you don't see the difference?

You actually believe that guys in seniors now are not hitting balls harder and further than many (not all) of them were 30 years ago? Seriously?

Of course guys got hit before, but that isn't the point and doesn't prove yours.

By the way, I just about guarantee you very few (certainly not 2 or 3 a team) 65 year old guys were going to hit home runs with the bats and balls of the 60s and 70s. Again, you don't see a difference?
April 20, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
"The U2 with today’s TOURNAMENT balls (375/44) is a wash when you compare the aluminum bats and hot balls from the 60s, 70s and 80s." I played against these same players every year for 10-15 years. I will tell you that is poppycock! You are fooling yourselves if you think players today at 30 YEARS OLDER are as good today as they were then. That BS and you all know it. You talk about certain circumstances when you want to protect the image of these composite bats. The FACT is more people hit the ball farther today than they ever did 30 YEARS AGO. 30 YEARS AGO, and most of the top hitters today did not even play at the top levels 30 YEARS AGO!
April 20, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
What Pricer said........
April 20, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Let's also remember to be at the top level 30 years ago, or any level I suppose, you had to be able to make three plays per inning (EVERY inning) to be able to go back in and hit again. Not in today's game.
April 20, 2012
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
The redundance of some is only out done by their lack of common sense.
April 20, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
The oxen is slow, but the earth is patient!
April 20, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
413 posts
I think people on this thread are talking around each other w/o actually understanding what the other guy is saying. The simple fact is that a 40
year old "senior" is quite different from a 60 year old senior. I play in a 60+ league. The regular season including all teams is 180 games.
The 4 fields are between 290 and 310 feet.There are less than a handful of HRs hit over the fence in all these games. Gary H is right on in his comments of the 60+ game. Perhaps Gary 19 has some validity for those under say 55. As Ted Williams said, if you can't hit it out don't try.
The smart plus 60 hitters don't try to hit it out. In my 60+ league there are lots of 270' hitters with their senior bats who just consistently fly out. Perhaps the real issue is the age cut off point when senior bats should be allowed.
April 21, 2012
garyheifner
331 posts


Can many guys hit 270' fly outs with the senior bats? You bet.
I disagree that more guys hit deep today. I have next to me a TPS Rich Plante aluminum bat 30oz. CU31 alloy. I used this bat in the 80s and 90s. I was in my 40s and early 50s and was the 2 hitter on a good U-trip team. Not a Hr minded guy rather line drive hitter. They were the next 4 hitters. I still averaged in the upper teens to lower 20s in Hrs in league and tourney play combined each year. The balls were hot and carried not only off this bat but all the good aluminums of the era. Our entire lineup could hit it out or bang the wall consistantly and we were just a "C" borderline "B" team. Not all our guys were animals. Some were rabbits and could still drive it. I firmly believe the ball-bat combos are comparable. To jump to the other end of the scale, try playing in a tourney that allowed only ASA bats and the ASA 40 core ball (never agin). Gary 19 might like it, but your outfielders will have a boring day standing at 210' and catching soft flys all day.
April 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
But your infielders and pitcher will have a much more enjoyable day actually being able to field balls without fearing for their safety, along with being able to play at a depth that their diminished arm strengths will allow them to throw batters out.

Not to mention the pitchers won't have to stand behind a screen like a monkey in a cage.

April 22, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
garyheifner...........You're describing tournament ball, whereas Gary19 sounds like he's describing recreational ball. Big difference.
April 22, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
heif, I agree. (By the way, Rich Plante was a legend up here in the Pacific NW.)The rec player always seems to have advice for the tournaments guys. It appears he just doesn't grasp the entire concept from not partisipating in current activities at a National level. HUGE difference.

19, there are no screens in tournament ball. They allow us to use gloves though.
April 22, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
314 posts
HEIF. Not understanding how anyone can say that more guys don't hit deep more today than in the 80's. Granted there is some difference between a REC player and one that plays a lot of tournamnets but,be it as it may a Rec player or a "Tournament player" (as you say)- either or will hit the ball farther with today's equipment. You are fooling yourself to think otherwise. I know that it doesn't matter but,just to state. I play on the National Level.
April 22, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
616 posts
"Granted there is some difference between a REC player and one that plays a lot of tournamnets but,be it as it may a Rec player or a "Tournament player" (as you say)- either or will hit the ball farther with today's equipment." Thank you!
April 22, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
380 posts
I agree that with todays equipment the weak/frail players can hit a softball farther. Some can now hit the ball almost 200 feet.

With the old equipment in the late 80's and early 90's I could hit balls over a 320" fence that was 10 ft high. Today can still hit ball that far.

The basic difference to me is the bats are more balanced and swing eaiser today than in yesteryear. Sweet spots are larger. More people have confidence in their swing than years ago, and that is a huge difference.
April 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Bomber, I understand that, and the difference. But that doesn't change my first statement in my last post.

titan, Gary is just trying to fool himself, he has to be or he is just plain ignorant. But he is not fooling many if any others.

crusher, that is the point. You now have guys 20-30 years older doing at least what they were doing before. In what other sport can that be said?
April 22, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
380 posts
For me I am stronger then I was 20 years ago. Go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week. Do not work heavy for fear of injury, limit bench to 225 pounds, curls to 50 pound dumbells then work on cable and machines where you add weighs.

And as for speed, always was slow, my age has finally caught up with my speed.
April 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
If you are curling 50 pound dumbbells in your 70s, you are either:

a) using terrible form
b) on some supplements that I wish you would share with me, or
c) the freakiest physical specimen I have ever seen in 33 years in gyms.
April 22, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
380 posts
No supplements, using proper form, 50 pounds is really not that much.
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