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Discussion: Southwest Championships

Posted Discussion
April 23, 2012
Dbax
Men's 60
1299 posts
Southwest Championships
SSUSA, how about cutting the grass at Shadow Rock this week so ground balls through the infield can reach the outfielders, instead of coming to a stop? That would be nice.
April 29, 2012
Doorman
35 posts
I just got back from the tournament and I played at Shadow Rock. Field 3-4 are artificial turf and beautiful. Fields 1-2 had horrible outfields. I dont know if they cut the grass or not. It was long in spots, bare in spots, grass clumps everywhere, etc. It was hard to run on and it was one of the worst outfields I have ever played on in an SSUSA tournament. Hard hit balls were taking horrible bounces and it was dangerous for the outfielders to get in front of the ball. The outfields on 1-2 need to be re-done to bring it up to an acceptable level.
April 30, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
I played 10 games in 2 different divisions this weekend at Arroyo Grande. There was one problem with a leaking sprinkler on one of the fields. The tournament was well run and I would view the merger of the LVSSA and SSUSA a positive one for all. The rule changes did not cause any issues, bottom line, you have to hit and play defense. The home run rules benefited the teams that knew how to hit and use them effectively. If you hit all of them in the first inning it hurt you in the long run. Midwest and East Coast guys need to come to Vegas. Great weather and great competition.
April 30, 2012
kbl
Men's 60
532 posts
Softball4b.... Our team played in Vegas in 2004. Fields were nice then. I would love for our team to attend again, but the flight cost is prohibitive. We are from Pa. Thanks, ken
April 30, 2012
surf88
Men's 60
903 posts
Doorman is right about Shadow Rock outfields. Balls would take terrible angle hops off the grass clumps on fields 1&2.

The 70 foot base distances and longer mound distances were a bit different. Bases added 10 feet to each base length from what we are used to.

SSUSA and LVSSA worked hard at Shadow Rock to make it run smoothly and I appreciated all their efforts. The staff was very friendly and accomodating.
Thank You
Ed Andrews
Sun Reebok Sr Rep
Arizona Rangers
(970) 729-3145
April 30, 2012
Doorman
35 posts
I did not like the 70' bases at all. It changed the game too much for teams that hit singles and use their speed on the bases to score runs...like my team. The longer bases made made it almost impossible to take an extra base. I didn't see anyone try to stretch a single into a double. It effectively made fast runners and slow runners the same speed because almost all the base runners could only advance go 1 base on a single.

Most teams have several players that struggle with the running part of the game. Making the bases longer just makes it harder for poor runners to get to first base, creates more double plays, less runners beat out infield singles, etc. Basically it minimizes running speed.

The longer bases did not make a better game and I see no reason for it. If they want us to play with 70' bases then they should allow base runners to lead off with the pitch.

The guys and gals working on the fields at Shadow Rock did a great job with raking the fields and making sure there was drinking water available. Thanks
April 30, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
Was not aware that bases where going to be at 70', but it's a much better and safer game with the bases back another 5'.
April 30, 2012
Doorman
35 posts
Why does the extra 5' make it a safer game? With that logic maybe 70' is too short.

I have played in at least 30 SS tournaments and all of them have used 65' bases...except for LV. It is the equivalent of MLB playing the world series using 95' bases instead of 90'.

The field dimensions should not change depending upon the region. If it is a SSUSA event then SSUSA rules / field dimensions should apply.

May 1, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
183 posts
70' bases made it a little tougher, bur if you can run you still take the extra base. I did see more collisions at the bases, so I doubt it is safer..Saw a couple of cheap shot low bridge hits on defensive players..Saw 1 idiot get tossed for that and another idiot from the same team get tossed for arguing balls and strikes...REALLY...Guy was a total tool. Overall the was well run and I had a great time..
May 1, 2012
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Love the 70' bases ... Brings a little bit of defense back into the game ... reduces cheap doubles that should have only been singles.

#19
May 1, 2012
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
#19,but ya still have to play at the fence and those cheap 1b/2b are had bc of the dept the outfieldes have to play,hell even as slow as myself can do that........
May 1, 2012
SSUSA Staff
1320 posts
The City of Las Vegas and Clark County softball facilities are controlled by NSA Leagues and Tournament bookings. The NSA field specification is for 70' bases, and the municipal entities declined to allow us to change the configuration for the Southwest Championships. This was not a choice issue last week, but is being worked on/negotiated for 65' bases at the World Masters Championships in Las Vegas this fall. We will advise the membership if there is a change in status.
May 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Sure there is a choice, don't use their facilities.

Doorman makes a valid point about MLB.
May 1, 2012
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
616 posts
Doorman, the safety issue came in because this happened in conjunction with NSA moving the pitcher's rubber back to 53' the same year. It does cause the fielders to stand a little further back to be where they think they should be with the bags. ASA changed the bags from 65' to 70' this year for all adult leagues. You get a lot more outs at first is all that I see. The throw from 3rd is tougher though.
May 1, 2012
boston
307 posts
There is the option that the tourney directors for all senior tourneys in Vegas. Have the 40's and 50 major plus place play at the fields with the 70' bases. These uys are supposedly the physical cream of the crop so the extra 5 feet should not affect them. JMO
May 2, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
We have played 70 foot bases a number of times now in Vegas and the more we do the better I like it. That almost automatic double for any guy with speed goes away and infielders have that extra fraction of a second to make a play if they bobble a ball a little. Double plays are more frequent, too.
Doorman-do you remember when the bases were 60 feet? Back then I was very fast (6.3 60 yard dash, 4.5 40 yard) and left handed-I was rarely thrown out at first on an infield grounder. The move to 65 made a positive difference. I know we're older and all that, but I still look on this as a possibly positive change to consider. Maybe for 65 and up the bases should stay at 65 feet.
It is great that Las Vegas has enough complexes to have a large tourney. So few cities in the west do have enough facilities for a tournament this size. This weekend was a lot of fun for all of us who came and competed.
May 2, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
Doorman, another reason not mentioned for having the bases back another 5' is when you are on first or third with a pull hitter up. The extra 5' gives you a little more time to get out of the way.
May 2, 2012
DoubleL10
Men's 65
836 posts
I've played on the 70 foot bases a few tournaments now and I like it both as an outfielder and a runner. The automatic first-to-third for a base runner is not so automatic and it does give outfielders an actual chance to make a throw and perhaps get someone out. 99% of the time, I'll hit the cutoff man but every once in a while a runner gets carried away and I'll have to try to see if the old arm can still get it there in time! As a runner, I have to run hard to get from first to third on most base hits but sometimes I just have to stop at second.

I played on the 60 foot bases in the 70s and there was one guy in our league (left-handed) who, if the ball was hit on the ground, you had no chance to get out. If the ball went through the infield, he would be on second.

I think I like the 70 foot bases better even at age 65.
May 2, 2012
sliplayer
Men's 60
70 posts
I like the 70 ft base paths. I think it's safer and it helps as a overall equalizer. It takes away the automatic extra base that everyone gets. It involves defense's both infielders and outfielder's with the ability of making plays that they wouldn't be able to make on 65' base paths. I do agree it's tough going from one field at 65' to another field/complex where the bases are 70'.
I would like to see all fields go to the 70' bases.
Steven Imlay
May 3, 2012
ffdonnie
Men's 50
96 posts
I agree the 70' base paths brought back a little defense to the game. Didn't think 5' would make a difference, but it does.
I'm torn on whether I like the X-rocks or not. I like hitting them into the wind (which there was plenty of) but I don't like what they did to my bats. I think they're too hard for senior bats. Blew up one, and put some heavy stress cracks in my newer back-up. And it was 80+ out there. Don't have that problem with the Stotes.
Anybody agree?
May 4, 2012
curveball
Men's 65
408 posts
I don't agree. The X-Rocks seem softer to me. They hold up very nicely, but are far from being too hard. We use them here exclusively, just don't see that many "blow ups".
The Senior bats are going to break, no matter what ball. Maybe it was just their time to go donnie.
Like Larry, Steve, and Donnie ahead of me, 70' bases make for a better game.
May 4, 2012
ffdonnie
Men's 50
96 posts
Very possible curve. The soft feel is deceiving, they are a "hard" ball. Just wondering what others thought. Thanks.
May 4, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
Personal opinion. Love the rock, it holds up better in hot humid weather. I am not a mechanical engineer, but I think the ball is as good if not better for the senior bats. Certain batters, for what ever reason, break bats more often than others. No problem this weekend and the reebok I used was purchased 01/2011 and has at least 800 swings on it. Yellow 29oz EL.
May 4, 2012
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts

I agree Mike,

The ROCK. The best 44/375 softball you will find on planet earth. Period. I just started using them for BP 6 months ago, and they don't wear out. The older dirty balls are just as hard as the new ones out of the box. 1 thing... these balls move a lot while in flight!They can fly, You will see more knuckle balls hit with see balls. I went to these balls because.... I crack bats.

Kennard
May 4, 2012
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Correction:
You will see more knuckle balls hit off the bat with these balls.
May 4, 2012
LT
Men's 50
31 posts
Are the Tournament results posted anywhere? Thanks!
May 6, 2012
Doorman
35 posts
I few comebacks about the 70' bases. Some of you guys act as if base runners and infielders are being carted off after being hit by the ball. I have never seen any base runner hit with a ball when playing the 65' bases.
The fielders can play anywhere they want but tend to play deeper with the longer bases. Infielders will play where they feel safe and where they can make plays regardless of the base length. I see no safety advantage for fielders or base runners.

Guys trying to break up the double play at 2B has always been a part of the game. Making the bases longer does not stop this from occurring. If they want to eliminate this part of the game then eliminate sliding or call a double play for making any contact with an infielder.

Nobody can deny the longer bases changes the game and I say it doesn't make it better. Based on the message from SSUSA, they get the point but cant adjust the thinking in LV...yet.

Last thing. The 53' pitching rubber may be safer, but so would 55', 60', etc. If they want to make the game safer, slow down the speed of the ball, not change the field dimensions.
May 6, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
I find no problem with 70' bases, it is no diffewrent than playing on a 325' fence instead of 300', adjust your game.
May 7, 2012
neck10
513 posts
what you want to do kill your outfielders thay cant cover 300 feet must less 325'.
May 7, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
I did not say anything about wanting my outfielders having to play on 325' in fact I have posts on this board how I did not think it was a good idea. However, in the past that has had to occur when we played in Phoenix, so you adjusted your game accordingly. Hitters hit gaps and outfielders played deeper.

Does not change what I said about adjusting to the 70' bases. Infielders play a little deeper and runners with speed get singles that might have been outs before conversely not as many doubles. Evens out.
May 7, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
I personally don't mind the 325 as an outfielder-it's a little more of a challenge. But the 325 makes a difference offensively.
Personally, if I was an infielder, I would not play that extra 5-10 feet deeper. That would give me that fraction of a second more to make the play on most balls hit to me and I think that would more than compensate for the 1 extra ball you might barely reach if you were deeper.
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