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Discussion: 2012 Home Run Rule Clarification

Posted Discussion
April 24, 2012
Brett
Men's 55
239 posts
2012 Home Run Rule Clarification
SSUSA please clarify the following rule:
Can the home team go 'one-up' on home runs in the unlimited inning, provided the one-up home run does not win the game for them? I have heard differing opinions that this rule has been changed and is now allowed in 2012. However, I have not been able to find this rule change actually documented.
April 24, 2012
garyheifner
361 posts
I understand the rule as written. What I don't understand is if the visiting team has had 7 innings-21outs in which to hit their alloted Hrs, how is it unfair if the home team in the bottom hits one that puts them one up and would/should win the game? It seems to me the rule punishes the home team.
April 24, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Don't care for the home team not being allowed to use what they can in their at bat.
It's not their fault the visitors didn't score more during the game no theirs but it is their turn at bat and you are impeding it.
April 24, 2012
udaplaya
91 posts
SSUSA staff,

this very issue came up in our game at the WW in LV. After the reading the rulebook and the addendum, i do not find where it supports your positon stated above. It does state that you can not win on a 1-UP homer, but it does not say you can't go 1-UP under all other circumstances.

To be clear, i do like your interpretation above, but i worry that a manager, armed with your rulebook, could argue successfully against it. i think if someone said, "yeah, but forget the rulebook, i read this on the message board", they woould be told to take a hikedl to take a hike.

if it is in there and i missed it, i now look silly and apologize.

gary, to your question, the 1-UP only applies after both teams have hit their maximum. Up until that point, if you are still below your limit going into the 7th, you can hit as many hrs in the bottom of the 7th, short of going 1-UP.
April 24, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
More Socialism. =(
April 24, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
udaplaya, taits and garheifner-the rule is right by not letting the home team go one up in the bottom of the seventh after the limit has been reached. If you look at it a different way, suppose the visitors are 1-up on home runs in the top of the seventh and they have the bases loaded with 2 outs. A player hits one out. He is awarded a walk that scores one run. Then the next batter makes an out. In the bottom half the home team hits a home run to tie it. Their next home run wins it, despite the fact that the visitors had a grand slam taken away and made a walk. Tell me why the home team should be allowed one more home run-IN ANY CASE-than the visitors. Home team is advantage enough by itself. And a staunch Obama supporter cries 'Socialism'? Really??? Funny!! Crying wolf, anyone?
April 24, 2012
stick8
1306 posts
Webbie I might be wrong here but I'm pretty certain NSA started the 1 up hr rule and they used the same reasoning that SSUSA staff elluded to above. That being said a men's double-header league that I umpire uses that rule with the home team being able to go 1 up in the last inning. Since it's a double leader league and each team is home for one game they have the same chance to go one up. But if the visiting team hits less hr's than the home team does the home team is out of luck. There is a strategy involved!!
April 24, 2012
udaplaya
91 posts
W25...

Please note my comment..."to be clear, i do like SSUSA's interpretation...", but it is not supported by their rulebook.

i agree, homefield advange is very favroable in senior softball, no need to give the home team an added hr also.
April 24, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
The rule as the SSUSA staff stated it is the one that makes the most sense and the one that is used everywhere else that I know of.

Look at it this way, should you make the coin toss that much more important? Home field advantage is considered a big advantage as it is.

Should you also allow the home team to have 1 more home run than the visitors?
April 24, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
335 posts
Understand too that the allotted limit does not have to have been reached for this rule. Both teams could have hit zero homeruns thru out the game and the one up rule would still apply.That means that The Home team could hit the first homerun of the game in the bottom of the seventh and it would not count as a homerun.
April 24, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
titanhd, I think you are wrong. If there is a 7 home run limit and the visitors have hit zero, the home team still could hit to their limit of 7 in the bottom of the last inning. They would have hit 7 more home runs that opponents, but could not go up 1 more than the 7.
April 24, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
335 posts
Thanks Cal.
April 24, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Webbie,
I am aware of all that, But I simply just do not like it.
Still play with rule as the others need to also but it's just another game change, after all right. We are used to them.

April 26, 2012
DCPete
235 posts
Neither team (Home or Visitors) has any room to complain now that extra HRs are Walks instead of Outs.
Extra HRs really should be foul balls instead of walks so there's at least a little strategy in the game vs just seeing how many you can blast over the fence.
April 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Pete, if seniors cared about strategy instead of "blasting" the ball they would not insist on the special bats.
April 26, 2012
crump22
Men's 50
43 posts
Webbie25,what do Obama has to do with a senior softball homerun rule?
April 26, 2012
garyheifner
361 posts
gary 19

Once again, since you don't play on the tour, you have "ZERO" clue as to how seniors play. Another ignorant post. I believe you have stated your dislike for our game, what 200-30o times? How about something "new" "original". NO wait, it's Gary 19-that won't happen!
April 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Once again, it doesn't take some of us repeated playing to see how things are. A half-dozen times was sufficient for me.

And you have stated your dislike for me 200-300 times, so how is your repetition any different?
April 27, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
Unfortunately, you've painted yourself into the corner that "heif" talks about. Your posts reflect a POS that has no clue, based on lack of partisipation and knowledge of today's current conditions.

It's not "heif" dislikes of you 200-300 times, it's more like the majority of the board dislikes you one time, the present time.

April 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Don't need three outs to go in and bat.

Other team does not have to record three outs to stop you from batting.

Bats only guys 50+ are allowed to use.

Giving teams extra runs or an extra fielder, despite both teams putting their pants on one leg at a time.

Not always, but often tiny brackets.

"Courtesy" runners for perfectly healthy guys.

All absurd, yet all true. What clues don't I have? I was just very specific, you be too.
April 27, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3939 posts
do you know that except for the bats,i have played all of those exceptions playing with the younger guys(the under 50 crowd),so i guess it is just not only senior ball that does it......oh and used a mat also with them.....so now what......
April 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
You might have. I have never.

And the difference is while those might be used on an exception basis with the kids, they are not the standard rules as they are with seniors. ALL senior use them, few kids.
April 27, 2012
stick8
1306 posts
Mad Dog I woukld guess the vast majority of house or city adult (not senior)leagues across the country have some sort of a courtesy runner rule. Even some festival type tourneys may have a courtesy runner rule. Not saying there aren't any but I'm not aware of a mens league where teams are allowed to use senior bats, spot runs to the other team or are allowed to add an 11th fielder. That being said I do know men's USSSA nit's, NSA nit's, ASA qualifiers and all their world tournaments don't allow any of the "perks" senior softball uses. I believe ISA worlds, nit's and qualifiers have what they call a base burglar. He can run once an inning for someone and that's it. He's not a fielder or a batter. He can be inserted as a filder or batter at any time but then the team loses the base burglar "perk" for the rest of the game.
April 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
The pup just tries so hard, and lamely, to make points.

And I still haven't been told what clues I don't have.
April 27, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3939 posts
stick i understand for champ play it doens't happen,also on the burglar,not sure if they loose that if he happens to come in the game,may need to check that one out.....will check it out with my umps.....
April 28, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
"Webbie25,what do Obama has to do with a senior softball homerun rule?"

Crum 22

Same as what Obama has to do with balancing the USA's Budget! Nothing! ;-)

it was just a accurate reply to a non player that would need the power of Three senior bats combined to get one out of the park!
He's obviously jealous of what us true players can do!

It's amazing the SSUSA let's someone so negative about the Senior game and rules, spew his venom on the message boards. Anyway, I must admit, it's entertaining to watch the most hated person on the boards stir it up!
April 28, 2012
crump22
Men's 50
43 posts
swing for the fences, i though this were a softball site,you not going to change no one mind about Obama,the one that like him will vote for him and the one that don,t like him want vote for him.we should stay focus on senior softball and try to improve the game that we all love and play.
April 28, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Why do I have the feeling that in '08 Swing voted for an unqualified, elderly guy and a dingbat who would have been a heartbeat from the Oval Office?
April 28, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
I agee with you Crump, it's some flea that starts it with Socialism comment! I do leave politics out of it. Was just making a point that Obama has nothing to do with it as you said. Who I vote for is my business... I would vote them all out, left and right! Anyway, let's keep it to softball and stay positive!
April 28, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
By the way Swing, Socialism is an economic system, NOT a political one.

Nice try, though. LOL ROFL LMFAO =)
April 28, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
Last post speaks for itself.... Keep drinking the Koolaid! how can you say Socialism is not political? Back to softball please!
April 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Didn't your father ever teach you it is better to keep your mouth closed and not remove all doubt?

You poor dope! =(
April 29, 2012
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
gary name calling you know better then that.
April 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
You call that a "name"??????? It was much more a description.

Well, at least you didn't try to dispute my other statement.
April 29, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
RIK56 don't bother with this person, it's just what the turd wants! I am going back to no response to this turd!
April 29, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
So if we have 7 to 7 tie last inning home team at the plate bases loaded and visting team didn't hit a homer and both sides hit there all there homers... if the home team hit it out is it considered a walk and game over????
April 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
If I continually posted responses of such poor quality I would not make any further responses either. Glad to see you were capable of at least one wise decision.
April 29, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
swing, that is correct as you stated it.
April 30, 2012
4x4
Men's 65
597 posts
G19 - If we can take your word from your last post (directed at SFTF) ever.

We should be hearing no more from you..............

And the board would be better for it !

Do I get an "Amen" out there - from the real softball brethren. The guys that actually care about and play the game.

Not some hack/whack job who's only purpose is to disrupt and destroy the board and those in it. Purely to feed his own illness. There's simply no other conclusion that can be drawn.



April 30, 2012
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
AMEN
April 30, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
If I didn't care, I wouldn't care that:

Not needing to record three outs to go in and hit is a joke/mockery/travesty/absurd.

Taking the bat out of team's hands because they were good enough to score five runs in an inning is a shame.

Turning the game into local amateur golf or bowling by giving teams handicaps is ridiculous.

You guys just bend over for anything that is handed you. And that is not whacked?
April 30, 2012
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
"It's amazing the SSUSA let's someone so negative about the Senior game and rules, spew his venom on the message boards. Anyway, I must admit, it's entertaining to watch the most hated person on the boards stir it up!"

Swing, if you read through past posts, Softballfans.com had enough of his crap and banned him. Long time members said the move was extremely positive.

"If I didn't care, I wouldn't care that:" Better stated would be, If I wasn't such an a$$, I'd let people enjoy what they choose to enjoy. Being a non-partisipant and a follower rather than a leader, it's none of my business anyway." Like has been said so many times to you, if you don't like it, correct it or go on to some other form of recreation, let those who enjoy it play it. Seems like a simple enough solution.

April 30, 2012
neck10
498 posts
if you ignore him he might go away & I bet ssusa knows what he's doing & its only a matter of time & he will be banned for running the organization down all the time.its a good organazation over all it's not there fault that teams dont go to all of there tourney's our team only does 6 a year if we lived closer to most of the tourney's we would go more it's the travel that cost takes time & most 55 guy's still work.I go to indy it rains no tourny who's fault SSUSA,mine ,or the weather man's cant go back the next weekend already used that alloted time.
April 30, 2012
DCPete
235 posts
Swing; you bring up another good reason why the extra HRs should be foul balls instead of Walks . . .
April 30, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Oh, I don't know Bomber, maybe SSUSA commendably believes in the First Amendment.

I take it you don't?

So 30 years ago you were sitting around with teammates after games wishing they would put in run limits to "improve" the game? You were wishing they would allow weaker teams to use an extra fielder, or were given runs, to help weak teams do what they wouldn't or couldn't on their own?
April 30, 2012
neck10
498 posts
30 years ago there were more teams playing you didnt have to play up or down when you went to a tourney ,but heath issues jobs wives grandchildren have changed all that if you want to play tell me the rules lets play because as it was 30yrs ago once you know & acept the rules its the same for everyone,when we played ASA in northern michigan with all the arc then went down to detroit to play some USSSA we didnt like the way the pitchers were allowed to pitch with all that motion but we were told this is the USSSA rules (all that flat stuff)we could either play or go home the second time we went we knew the rulles so we just played didnt complain just played after twoo or three tourneys everthing was fine & Mr. DeDonatis wasnt quite as bad a guy as we thought.
April 30, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Gary19...Why do you speak of the past? When you became eligible to play senior ball, the rules for senior softball were already in play. I cannot understand your problem. You are making wrong comparisons. It is what it is.
April 30, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Because without learning from it you are destined to make mistakes.

When blacks were born in the 1800s rules were in place too. Should they have remained?

When many our our mothers were born there were rules in place too. Should we have kept all of them?

Or should both groups have moved to different nations?
April 30, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
By the way, I understand some/many/all of this is never going to change. But that does not make run limits or handicaps any less absurd.
April 30, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Brett.....I understand what you are saying, but now you'r hijacking your own thread. Your original question was about home run rules.
May 1, 2012
Maj + player
16 posts
The explanation of the one up rule by ssusa staff is not what the rule reads, under the umpire section for rules. It states that you can not go one up to win a game, but does not state that you can not go one up if it does not win the game. The language is bad on this rule and should be changed to say, you can not go one up in the bottom of the last inning, or that you can go one up as long as it does not win the ball game.I have umpired for thirty five yrs and nine in ssusa.Some people don't like my personality as an ump but very few withh disagree with my inturpatation(sp?)of the rules. Good luck on this one being called consistantly, until the wording is changed.
May 1, 2012
SSUMP18
3 posts
Maj + player, I agree that the explanation by SSUSA is not what the rule says. At the annual UIC clinic this year this rule was discussed at great length. It was agreed that the wording was not sufficient and we would have problems. I had this ducussion at Shadow Rock on the weekend with a couple of teams, and a few umpires when this situation came up. The way the rule is written, a team MAY go 1 up in the bottom of the open inning as long as it does not win the game. Which by the way, we decided was un-fair to the visiting team. I have asked the SSUSA UIC to review the wording in this rule.
May 1, 2012
SSUSA Staff
1284 posts
We have again reviewed the actions of the 2011 Rules Committee meeting and have published the current rules for 2012. Although there is some confusion, the rule as published in the Addendum sent to teams and umpires will govern play, and we will not implement any differing interpretation.

Accordingly, a home team may go "1-Up" in the bottom of the last inning, but only if that Home Run is not a 'walk-off' game winner. We will re-visit this specific issue again at the convention in December in Mesquite, NV. We apologize for any confusion which has arisen.
May 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
So if the homer contributes to an eventual win later in the 7th it is okay, but not if it is the actual game-winner?
May 1, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
The rule as you now interpret it even gives the home team a much bigger, even unfair advantage.

With a home run, it clears the bases eliminating a potential force out. It is silly to flip flop on this, no other association does this because it makes no sense and is unfair to the visiting team.

We are playing in Indy this weekend and common sense says to have 1 six team tournament, instead you go to 2 three team tournaments.

Making the players touch the next base after a home run is another no common sense rule.

I have agreed with most of your rules, but these 3 decisions are things that common sense should overrule.
May 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
cal, as you know I am far from a defender of many senior rules, but what is the harm in touching the next base? It won't, or shouldn't, hold the game up. And I can't imagine jogging 65' is a strain on anyone.
May 1, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
The better question is what good does it do?
Of course it holds up the game. People don't stand in the batters box waiting for them to touch the base and get off of the field, they wait to go to the batters box.

May 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
How slow do your baserunners move? They should be able to jog 65' and then get off the field in plenty of time while the outfielders and infielders are returning much further to their positions. The outfielders should have been moving back to the fence in the eventuality the ball did not go out, and the infielders should have been moving out into the outfield to line up cutoffs. All those guys have to return to their positions.

Granted it doesn't serve any real purpose, but should not be doing any harm at all either.

May 1, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
284 posts
If it doesn't server a purpose why do it?

Does it make you feel like a big boy to want to always try to get a little zinger in your posts? Slow base runners have nothing to do with it.

I have not responded to you in quite awhile because of that and because I believe you are little more than a troll on here.
May 1, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
What "little zinger"? There was nothing even remotely offensive in my post. Nothing close.

But the fact is they must be moving really slowly if they cannot go 65' and get off the field while all that other stuff is going on.

By the way, how big does it make you feel to call me some ridiculous name?
May 2, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
cal50-he will say anything to try to be a pest here-it's all he has in life. How sad he is. I think most of us even feel a little sorry for him.
May 2, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
NOT!
May 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"NOT!"?????????

What are you, 12?

Still waiting for someone to explain how guys cannot go 65' and then get into the dugout before one/half an outfield and one-half an infield gets back into position without just being slow.
May 2, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
Webbie, is it right that you were hitting leadoff.... I say new homerun rule all leadoff hitters that hit homerun over 400 ft have to run them out..:-)

May 2, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
You're right-I bow to the superior intelligence of the great gary19 -I should have to run out every home run-all the way around. He knows, being a major player and all that.
Swing-I still have to earn that spot-I have been inconsistent this year so far. That will make me work harder to prove I belong there, offensively and defensively.
May 2, 2012
garyheifner
361 posts
Have any of you guys ever had a big "ZIT" on the end of your nose? It is quite annoying and can affect you physical and mental health. If you squeeze it, interact with it, it often gets worse. If you just let it sit there, leave it alone, don't interact with it, it eventually dries up and goes away. It is hard to ignore a big "ZIT", but it can be done. Just a medical note.
May 3, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Never said that Mark, and your sarcasm is a poor attempt to deflect from what was really said.

Gee Gary, you are such a poor sport. =(
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