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Discussion: Brickyard

Posted Discussion
May 6, 2012
tg69
295 posts
Brickyard
How did the tourney in Indy go?
May 7, 2012
missouridave
Men's 55
69 posts
The weather was great. 50 Cal from St. Louis won the 50 Major. Sports Image from St Charles (MO) won the 55 AAA.
May 7, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
314 posts
Twin City won the 50 AAA- Chicago Prime finished Second.
Two very good teams

OKI won.
May 7, 2012
garyheifner
331 posts
Good tourney. 7 teams competed in the 65-70 division. Umpires were very good and one was outstanding in terms of hustle. Think most were NSA guys and the arc was about 10 feet on the top. Didn't give 12' as we are used to, but they were consistant. The outfields need work in the areas that the outfielders usually stand. There were approx. 10 x 15 foot areas that were really rough and dangerous. Especially fields 5 and 6. Had one of our guys crash hard when he stepped in a hole about 6-8 inches deep and about as round as a small dinner plate on field 3. They need to walk, find and fill in holes. Having to pay $3 per person per day to get in the park really sucked. Other than that,
it was great to play again even though everything from my neck down is torn, sore, pulled or aching.
May 7, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
How many of you guys, when you bowl, have to pay a door fee for the privilege of entering the establishment and paying more money to actually bowl? How many of you would if the house required that?
May 7, 2012
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
I (we) didn't pay to watch ourselves when we were young. There were always player passes. The $3 fee to get into the park was absolutely ridiculous. It was nice to visit with Dave Dowell again and see lots of our softball buddies.
May 7, 2012
kbl
Men's 60
523 posts
SSUSA...i think a good idea, when there is a tournament and you know in advance that there will be a charge to go to the complexes, that you take that into consideration "somehow" with the owners and include it in the entry fee....there are tournaments that do do that. thank you, ken
May 7, 2012
stig1
Men's 60
32 posts
I don't bowl and don't understand the comparison. They have been charging gate admission at Midwest for 20 years. Just like the bats and balls most players do not care what they swing or what they swing at. Just a few on this board think it's a big deal. Yhey just want to play ball. If you don't play don't gripe.
May 7, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Clearly not a "gripe", but a simple question.

And many on this thread so far sound like they have an issue with it. Not just at Midwest, but anywhere that double-dips.
May 7, 2012
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
One of the things I looked forward to when I turned 65 was not having to pay "gate admission" anymore. This is the first time I can remember that Midwest has charged 65+ players. I will never agree with parks charging high fees for leagues and tournaments and then charging the players on the teams that paid those fees admission so that they can compete in a league or tournament for which their team has already paid.
May 7, 2012
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1030 posts
The Midwest Sports Complex had (until about noon last Friday) a line on their "Do's and Don't" sign at the entry point stating that admission was free for ages 65+ and children under 12. Despite that, park personnel charged everyone the $3 admission. At about 1:00 pm, after having left the facility to purchase additional water jugs, I noticed the sign had been changed by the application of red duct tape to cover the part about the 'over 65' category being free admission. This was after I had asked the Midwest park management to honor the terms of the signage.

Obviously, this is a park based decision over which we have no control, or financial benefit arising therefrom. We apologize for this circumstance, although it was completely outside of our causation.
May 7, 2012
JT9
32 posts
Should at least give some sort of senior citizen discount :)
May 7, 2012
neck10
476 posts
why should us younger guys pay for the older ones when they are spending all the monies we put into social security & there's not going to be any left for us lets see if gary 19 agree's or disagrees with me & by the way Im just kidding.I pay out the ying ying in taxes someone should enjoy it.
May 7, 2012
neck10
476 posts
by the way tourney went great 5 teams in the 55 I would have to say the four teams we played against were real nice players & even better men. we had some issues come up but never any disagreements between the player's one game againts windy city one of our guys took called strike three it was about 4.5 feet high two innings later one of the windy city guys took third strike call it was maybe 4 feet high,each team just kind of laughed it off I dont like the no call on the height of pitch but it is what it is.
May 7, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
neck, in this case I do disagree with 65+ being free. This is not a case where these folks, on perhaps limited incomes, need to eat. It is guys voluntarily paying borderline outrageous amounts of money for a weekend of a purely recreational activity against only a few other teams. No need for any discount there. Not to mention when there is a 65+ with three kids in college like we have now then perhaps a discount for him (and me :)) would be in order.

No doubt I wasn't there, but I don't think guys realize just how flat 4' is when they make such allegations. Chances are the pitch was close to 3' off the ground when it left the pitchers hand. It seriously only elevated a foot or so in the 50 or more feet it traveled?
May 7, 2012
crump22
Men's 50
44 posts
Motown Stars won the 55 major behind the great pitching of Charles Neal.lol
May 7, 2012
garyheifner
331 posts
Lemons, you are right 65+ has never paid. I did pay when I was in my 50s and early 60s, no problem, it was the posted rules. I like to follow the rules and expect people to follow them. The rules of the park clearly said 65+ and kids 12 and under no charge. They covered the rules as Dave noted. It ended up being $6 for two days and the guys with wives paid $12. I saw one guy come in with wife and 3 kids. Charged $15 just to watch grandpa play a softball game. SSUSA could possibly move this tourney to South Bend since they aren't having SPA tournies there anymore. I also thought there was a time that this complex was going to be torn down and the tourney moved to a complex on the east side of Indy. If that is true, time to move.

Maybe it's time for SSUSA to hook up with Rudy Preble over in Champaign again and have a tourney at the really nice 6 field complex there. Rudy ran one of the best tournies around for years and would do it again. My team would have no problem dropping Indy for Champaign.
May 8, 2012
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
588 posts
Gary H, I am definitely not going to defend the gate fees charged to 65+. After playing out there for over 20 years and umpiring there for more years than I want to think about, Tim is consistent. I understand what he does but often do not agree. It was bad form to not follow the posted rules at the gate. I will not even go into the angry mobs when fast pitch tournaments are there (let's just say the entry fees are higher). In Indy before the private parks, we played at city parks. We had to bring our own bases; unpires did not show up; there was no management on site; most parks had no lights or fences. After the private parks were open here (there were 4 with at least 4 diamonds), the issues above were taken care of, but the gate fees started. Two of those parks are gone, including the one you mentioned on the east side. Midwest is one of the best parks in the state, and it shows best when weather is bad which fortunately it was perfect this weekend. The grounds crew busts butt getting diamonds in playing shape when rain comes. Public parks often do not have grounds crews, let alone diamond dry. I am sure that others have had the experience of a sunny day but unplayable diamonds because no one is there to get them back in shape (St. Louis, Elgin, Pensacola, Columbus, etc). The other private park here charges gate fees also, but there are other issues there. I also like the South Bend and Champaign parks, but they also have issues. Some of the other parks that I like in Indiana are in Bloomington, Shelbyville, Columbus, and Michigan City. Grounds crews being available are also a problem at 3 of those. Every park has pluses and minuses, and I wish there was a perfect one because we would all be there. Who else has private vs. public parks in their city? I only know about about this area but would like to hear from others that have this situation.
May 8, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
They changed their admission policy in the middle of the tournament?????

What more do people need to never frequent that park again? Respect is a two-way street. When the business no longer respects the customers, it would be time to move on.

Unbelievable!
May 8, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
Congrats to Sports Image 55's,,,,,,,,great championship game, pulling it out 19/18 in bottom of 7. Also Dayton Legends played very well, it took all we had to eek out a win against them. (They still have a 2 game to 1 edge on us)......I umpired the 65's n 70's on friday and heard no comlaints (except the gate fee) That's Private vs. Public parks.....Thanks heif for the kind words :}
Corky
Brickyard Legends #44
May 8, 2012
missouridave
Men's 55
69 posts
Thanks Corky, we were very happy that we did not have to play another game against your team. Good luck for the rest of the year.
May 8, 2012
Wes
Men's 65
306 posts
Private parks make some of their money by having a gate fees and selling hot dogs. I ran
a tournament at Fort Knox for two years and
the guy that had the fields rented from Fort Knox had other tournaments at the same time as mine. He charged me a little more to rent the fields but no gate fee, each player showed is
SPA card and could bring a freind--He charged
Mon & Dad coming to his tournament a gate fee.
They have to pay those guys to fix the feild after it rains

Who won the 70's?????????????
May 8, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
I'm pretty sure Direct Employers won the 70's......Indiana Legends won 60's AAA......Sports Image won 55'sAAA......OKI won the Major/Major+ 50's
May 8, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
50cal major
May 8, 2012
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1030 posts
Complete game scores and bracket results are now available from the links on the event tournament page ... Thanks you to all of the teams and players who participated!
May 8, 2012
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
I can understand a private park complex charging a fee for spectators or for players in evening leagues where the team entry fee is modest. But the $3 charge works out to about $120 more per team (including a few wives) which is on top of the already hefty tournament entry fees. Those tourney entry fees should be raised to cover this unwaived cost.

What I can't understand is having a poorly maintained park such as garyheifner experienced. If you're charging every team $120 for a 30 team tourney, you'd think the fields would be in excellent shape. And I wonder if the scoreboards were working. Private parks in our area not only charge the gate fee, but they often prohibit bringing in food or drink (other than jug water) so you have to pay monopoly prices for food and drink and get the normal poor quality ball park food.

As to raising prices in the middle of the tournament and sneakily changing the rules to do so, I agree with Gary19—why go there again if they disrespect their customers?

Public parks in our area have good maintenance staffs, but often it is the TD who has to gather teammates and friends to make a field playable for a tournament after adverse weather. Maybe private parks don't allow such volunteers, but surely city parks should welcome them. Our city does.
May 8, 2012
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
588 posts
Omar, thanks for the insight. Where do you play? I know a lot about Indy but not other places on their usual scheduled play. I am not sure on the math for a 2 day tournament. Midwest is the nicest overall park in the city here which is why they have more teams, and the diamonds are much better than many that I have been to elsewhere. That being said, they do not put as much money back into the diamonds as they used to before the township bought out half the land. All of the scoreboards work, and the lights are great as long as you do not look directly into them. League fees are not modest, $500 plus $50 for 2 forfeit fees which is not much more than the other private parks here. They do not allow food and drink into the park because of concessions. They did not change prices in the middle of the tournament, but they did not honor their own sign. That they should have bit the bullet on in my opinion only. In the good old days players used to help roll the tarp over the fields. The only real volunteer help that I haver seen here is when Avon went underwater after an extreme flood. The grounds crew at Midwest is the hardest working bunch of individuals that I have ever seen, and they play more games there than anywhere here.

It is the nicest park here, and I like being there, but it is not only ballpark that I hang at. The park makes lots of money, but it is all business. It is clean and has a lot more than softball there. Our personal is goal is to enjoy the game. Theirs is to maximize profit, and they do it very well.
May 8, 2012
garyheifner
331 posts
P.S.

More importantly than the x-tra fees- NO PORTA POTTIES out at fields 5 and 6. There have always been 2 there. No time between innings to run down to the main building and back. Not good for old guys and weak kidneys.
May 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Nancy, none of that excuses changing the admission policy
May 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Especially in the MIDDLE of the tournament. Very disrespectful! Very classless!
May 9, 2012
neck10
476 posts
too bad you couldnt be charged for everything before you arrive then no extra's .
May 9, 2012
neck10
476 posts
gary 19 you must remember it wasnt the SSUSA IT WAS THE LOCAL PARK so I guess it is what it is I knew I was going to pay for entry to the park before I went down I didnt know that 65 & older were free doesnt concern my budget so I dont care either way if they buy a new 1st base or a couple softballs I guess thats great.I think parents should have to pay to go see there kids in little leauge then all the parents are involved and just not supported by a few.Im a sucker for kids every time they come by my office I donate or stop & get a clean truck washed at the local high scool wash.
May 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I understand it was the park that did that, I had said earlier they are the ones who severely disrespected their customers by making that change mid-stream.

I would NEVER pay an admission fee for the "right" to play games that have already been paid for, just like my example of paying a door fee at the bowling alley to go in and pay more for my games. But that is me.

And good luck these days getting parents to get involved with their kids, for the majority those days are looooooong gone. :(
May 9, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
Have to disagree with Nancy on Midwest being "the nicest park in the city" I realize her connection there, but as she stated its only leased until the owner, Pike township schools, takes over and Tim hasn't put much money back into improving the facility. The owner/operators at Indianapolis Sports Park have dumped tons of money back into their park and is now in my opinion the "Best in Indy". Concessions and restroom facilities near all diamonds(6)..... drainage,sprinkler systems and recently sodded fields look and play great. Also shelters with picnic tables provide shade. That's why Indiana Senior Softball Organization has chosen to play leagues there.
(Private Park = gate fees) If ya gotta pay why not play at the Best facility.
May 9, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
BTW Dave Dowell.....Brickyard Legends won the championship game of the losers bracket and played Sports Image in the finals.
May 9, 2012
DaveDowell
Men's 60
1030 posts
Noted and fixed ... Thanks Corky (too many Legends and Brickyards were there!)
May 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Corky, somehow private bowling centers manage to not charge door fees. Private miniature golf centers don't charge a fee for the "privilege" of paying to play. Yet they often put money back into their facilities.

Looks like people bend over for the softball complexes who would probably never do it to bowl or putt.
May 9, 2012
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
Hard to take you seriously gary when you don't have a dog in this fight....since I don't play putt putt or bowl, I'm not concerned...was hoping you would be there so I could put a face to your posts...looked for ya in Columbus last year but didn't see ya.....Daytons coming up may 19 maybe we can hook up there........or in Columbus this year......Hope ya get to play......surely someone could use your talents. Don't take this as an attack.......just an observation.
May 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Not sure why I have to have been there to read what appears to be facts, and make logical deductions.

As far as you not bowling or putting, fine but it doesn't take much to again see the analogies.

Thanks for the comment, but I have travelled in two previous summers and was disappointed a bit to see what is lacking. I am sure the relatively few large tournaments are quite nice, but the numerous small ones just weren't for me.
May 9, 2012
Senior Moments
Men's 60
56 posts
Although Senior Moments did not attend this tournament, it is an issue that effects all senior teams.

For instance, the Disney Complex in Florida wil charge players $5-$10
per day to play in their events. We live in Florida and will not pay to play in a Disney event. They have already received an entry fee of $400-$600 per team.

It is Senior Moments team policy that we will not play in an event that charges a gate fee for players or family. The money for travel expense our money donated to the local economy when we are in their town should offset any gate fees. Why pay additional fees to play?

It should be the sponsoring group responsibily to negotiate the player / family gate charges.

The age level for gate charges should not be a factor in any event
that you have paid an entry registration. No players or family should
pay.
May 9, 2012
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
Nancy Allen, I play in northern California and the only private parks I know of are Field of Dreams (in Manteca and in Redding) and Twin Creeks in Sunnyvale. Twin Creeks caused a ruckus last year when they charged Senior Games players and spectators their normal gate fee. One of the principles of the national Senior Games movement is that spectators can come free, in order to build interest in senior involvement in athletics (softball is just one of their many sports). And then Twin Creeks charged the gate fee! Lots of unhappy players and fans, plus the Senior Games administration who had to apologize for violating their own charter. I doubt if they will return to Twin Creeks.

A big difference in California is the weather. We don't have many rain outs, and seldom even enough rain to have to prepare a field for play. This greatly reduces the amount of staff needed for maintenance. It means that many, many cities have good softball complexes because the maintenance is minimal (dragging the field and striping before league play or a tournament). And because of the cost of water in California, more and more fields are going to artificial turf (greatly improved in the last decade—most senior players like it better than natural conditions) and so cities don't have to water, drag, or stripe fields.

The same holds true for the private parks. Minimal maintenance required, which makes it all the more irritating when outfields are let go and there are bald spots or holes, and infield base paths are not maintained (Field of Dreams has natural turf outfield and artificial infield). What do you get for your gate fee? More profit for the owners and shabby conditions in many respects, not to mention overpriced average food. They do have a good selection of beer that many rec departments cannot allow by city codes.:=)
May 9, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4253 posts
Omar,
There are about 4 FOD\BLD parks down south. Like Twin Creeks, etc they charge to get in.
May 9, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4253 posts
Forgot even the one we had here in Fresno, had a charge except for when i had T's there as part of the deal. But I think they more than made up for it in my cost for the 3 fields.
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