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Discussion: Walk-off Rule

Posted Discussion
June 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Walk-off Rule
Not sure if it applies to all levels, but I just heard of some rule in SPA where a game cannot end on a home run. Is this true, and if so what possibly is the point?
June 26, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts

Regarding and taking into consideration the hr limits within all this:
Players want 1-Up-Progressive HR rules
1-Up Progressive is designed to keep things fair
NO other association allows 1-Up HR in bottom of last inning to win game
Nothing is more fair than having the same number of HR's allowed per team (after limit)
If Visiting team equalizes HR's hit in top of last inning, Fairness would dictate that home team shouldn't be able to go 1-up to win a game in the bottom of the last inning and deprive visitor of opportunity to equalize in top of the next inning, an inning that won't occur.
With that, personally I think its bad not to allow them its their turn at bat so why not its their turn other team had a at bat.
But yea it is a rule, live with it. But then you need to play, sorry I forgot about that.
June 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I guess blacks and women should have lived with not being able to vote. After all, it was a rule.
June 26, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
I was involved in that game. The rule was enforced differently in our last two games. First game, not one up allowed in the last inning. In the second game it was allowed, but they indicated it could not be the game winner. I guess the only problem I had with it is how can umps could not know this rule and how to apply it correctly. Both games were decided in the bottom of the seventh or extra innings. Great games versus great teams. Lot's of fun had by all.
June 26, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
222 posts
I was involved in the game with Pricer (above)

I'm still confused to what happened although it benefitted my team (Capp Steel)

Bottom Line in the 2nd game Pricer refers to.

My team was batting in bottom of the 7th and started inning down by 5 with unlimited runs allowed this inning. We scored three with no outs, still down by two. Got a guy on base and then we hit a home run to tie the game in bottom of the 7th (not to win)

Game stopped for about ten minutes until rules clarified. My understanding is the final determination is the home run was allowed because it was "not" the game winner, it tied the game.

We went on to score the last run, also with no outs.

Pricer, you guys have a great team and it is always fun to play against you guys, win or lose!!!!!! (Although I think this was the first time any team I have been associated with actually won against you, especially after you kicked are butts in the first game Saturday)

Good Luck rest of the season!!!!
June 26, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
222 posts
Personally I think there could be two rules to discuss to ammend this rule (or tweak it).

(A) since we have unlimited runs in last innning, NOBODY is allowed to hit a homer in last inning.

(or)

(B) if one team is DOWN a homer, they have opportunity to at least MATCH the other teams homer, regardless of top or bottom of the inning, but if both teams are EVEN on homers in last inning, homers should be cooked for the game, last innning, extra innings and etc. Also if game goes to extra innings, one team should still be able to match the home run (not go one up or ahead on homers) if they didn't hit one in the last inning of regulation

I liked the progressive home run rule used in Akron (Barberton) it kept the games level, there were quite a few "whammers" playing in the tournament!!
June 26, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1010 posts
The way I feel about the walk off rule is if you save your homer for the bottom of the 7th and hit it to win the game, it should count... I don't feel that just because you are the visiting team, you have the choice to hit a hr or not hit it, dictating what the home team does. I feel if a team saves their HR for the 7th then it should count! Period! if the visting team hits 4 hrs and you are allowed 8 hrs.. say the home team hits 6 hrs thru 6 then they should be able to hit two more in the 7th regardless of the score or game winner IMO!
June 26, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1010 posts
forgot to add this in.. if you are playing the one up rule too.. then the one up rule should last thru the entire game! Which includes the game winner in the 7th regardless of home team or vistors hitting it!
June 26, 2012
Joncon
289 posts
That rule is completely stupid as is whoever devised it.

The rule should SIMPLY be, you can't go one up the bottom of the last inning.

Not rocket science. No team should have an advantage over another. An extra HR is an obvious advantage.

Can't win on a one up HR??? What were they thinking with that gem.
June 26, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
We thought that because both teams were even heading into the bottom of the inning we were safe from the one up rule regardless of game tying or winning homerun. We even discussed this during our at bat in the top half of the inning. Both teams were totally in the dark on what the real rule was and what it turned out to be. Great game to play in regardless of winning or losing.
June 26, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
The idea of the rule is that the home team is not allowed to go one up in the bottom of the seventh in any case, because it gives them an extra potential home run and even more of an advantage than being home team, which we all know is huge. I'm not sure how Dave worded it, but that IS the intention.
Swing-this is only for a one-up situation. If you have saved your home runs below your limit, you can hit them up to your limit. But it is not fair to give the home team that one EXTRA home run, the one-up in the bottom of the seventh.
June 26, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1010 posts
yes Mark, however I have played when you can't win the game with walk off. which I say if you saved them you should be able to. I do agree that the home team can't hit one more homer then the visting team does throughout the game so in the seventh I amend what I was talking about and say that I agree that the home team should only be able to hit an HR to get even up in HR, however if it is a go ahead homer it should count!
June 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Is this foolishness only for seniors?
June 26, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Right, swingfor thefences-you can hit one to even it up-you just cannot go one up.
June 26, 2012
boston
307 posts
All things cannot be fair and even. Man, I get sooo frigin tired of hearing about things having to be fair and even for everyone. You guys sound like elementary school kids, instead of grown men. If you have a one up rule then have it. Gimme a break, 1 up unless your batting in the bottom of the seventh to win a game. If the cards happen to fall your way in that situation so be it. If everything has to be fair how about in the 7th if one team has the top of thier line-up leading off, the other team should be able to alter thier line-up so thier top hitters lead-off.
Like I tell my students life isn't fair and we are not all equal.
June 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
boston, you're still the best! Welcome to the new world of Socialist softball. It seems to be popular among the old guys.
June 26, 2012
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Gary please address these rules offensive ejection if you hit a HR yet you can still play the field but when you come up your an automatic out. How about if you hit a HR the other team gets runs and the penalty escalate for example the 4th HR is 4 runs for the other team. All rules in your beloved young mans game come on man give it a rest. Softball in general is messed up.
June 26, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
OK, Tony-you agree with Gary and hate the 'friggin' SSUSA rules. Why don't you guys get together and start an association with the rules you want to see on the field and start advertising for teams to come to your tournaments. First things first-composites are illegal-back to alloy bats and a 47/525 ball, ok? Then open runs per inning, open home runs and that takes care of the 1-up rule, no second home plate, no orange safety base, no courtesy runners at all, no re-entry rule, no time limit, run rule after 5 innings-- Maybe 10 or 15 runs? Maybe 2 divisions-open and recreational. Age divisions 50-59, 60-69, 70+?? Should take care of the small brackets to only have 6 divisions. Only 48 teams get in you could have 8 per division-very good. Let's see, thats 1 --read that ONE more game for the team that wins the winners bracket. Maybe 3 more games for guys that are over 50, over 60 or over 70 in the losers brackets-yes that should make everybody happy to play 10 games or so. I'm sure the guys that are 69 would have a fighting chance against guys that are 60 in that situation.
Tony-I have yet to see anyone put out a product that is better than what we have with SSUSA. Gary has declined to put it out there and crawled into his keyboard. Are you the one to try it?
June 26, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
222 posts
Pricer, I could be wrong here, BUT-----I am "pretty sure" (not positive) we were "down" one home run in the game in question and the one we hit in the bottom of the 7th was the equalizer????

I don't know, the scorebook is now 60 miles away from me, but I am "pretty sure" not certain, we did not go up by a homer in bottom of the 7th. There were quite a few homers by both teams, one team up by one,m then down by one----------you need an abacus behind home plate to keep track.

I "think" you went one up in top of the 7th??

G19, LOL, I am NOT advocating an abacus rule :)

Pricer. your team has more whammers top to bottom than our team.

It was a great game, especially since you played the nine inning two hour marathon just before playing us. You guys had to be whooped at that point???
June 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Lecak, those are standard, national association rules? Or something some local league put in?

Mark, maybe women and blacks should have started their own nation so they would have been allowed to vote. That sounds like your recommended approach.

June 27, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Joncon,
i believe that is the way it is, no one up in bottom of open inning.
June 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
If I am allowed to go one up in the bottom of any other inning, how/why is the last inning any different? All it is doing is egualizing the number of innings my team has batted with the visiting team.
June 27, 2012
miken44
78 posts
the ruling was that you could go up by one if you were tied but you could not win the progressive homerun rule should be the way to play
June 27, 2012
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Gary UTRIP and NSA. If your going to comment on senior for having it wrong then your beloved young mans game is off the rails. How come you don't know these rules when you hold senior ball to be like everyone else?
June 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
So those are national rules used everywhere those two associations govern?
June 27, 2012
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Yes Gary those are national rules. UTRIP is for class E ball which is by far the most prevalent of their divisions. I don't understand your reluctance to share your thoughts on those idiotic rules. Some of the young mens rules are far more ridiculous than anything senior ball has yet you hold them up as the example for all to follow. You do need to get out more.
June 27, 2012
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
joe,you forgot the inning ending hr coupled with the offensive ejection......
joe,he doesn't care,he is just trying to take up band width here......
June 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
What "reluctance"? Clearly, as you described, those are pretty silly too. Now silly rules for the kids doesn't excuse silly rules for seniors. They can both/all be silly. There apparently is plenty of room for silliness in softall these days.

sad pup, glad to see you came out of the closet and back onto the board. Still stalking me, huh? LMFAO
June 27, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
800 posts
The easiest solution is just go with an "X" amount of HR's and NO progressive. With the rule now being no DBO's, that's fair for both teams.
June 27, 2012
boston
307 posts
Mark- it is not all the rules that bother me. I just feel you don't have to make every situation equal. Because in the end all is not equal. If it were we wouldn't have divisions and age groups. I agree with the divisions and age groups. I do feel the higher up you play major and major plus the more the game should be played like the original game. I don't agree guys playing Major or Major plus should have runners or not be able to go 1 up in bottom of 7th. When you are at that level you should be in pretty damn good shape and run on your own. With that said I understand the need for older gentlemen needing adjustments. You may not agree but 50-possibly 59 you should have different rules than the 60 and over. The AA & AAA should also have different rules than the Major/Major Plus. I don't mean just the HR rule.
Lecak- I do agree with the state of softball in general being messed up. I tried a Class E tourney this yr. and had it was a mess. I only got 4 AB's for 2 games having hit HR's in my 2nd AB each game and causing my team 3 outs w/ 1 AB. So, I moved up to play w/ a different HR rule.
Finally, people on this site need to stop getting so defensive about comments made about the senior game. We all have different opinions about various issues. If we were to discuss the economy, illegal immigration, education, etc. I hope we would have differing opinions but be able to agree to disagree about these matters. Because I may not agree with certain rules doesn't mean I don't enjoy playing with my senior peers. I hope you guys are as passionate about what is going on in this country as you are with senior softball. Webbie- If your in Silver for the USSSA Senior State Championships we'll have a couple cold ones on me. I usually bring an ice chest with Stella Artois to tourneys. I will be there between my grandson's World Championship games in Las cruces.
June 27, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Boston-I don't fully agree with all of the equalizing rules, but you have to agree it works. There are more seniors playing now than ever before-si it is working. Would I make some changes-yes. But SSUSA puts their existance on the line in every tournament and it is working.
And of course you know we will have a cold one-we both know none of this is personal!
June 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
THREE team brackets is "working"???????? You really need to set your bar a bit higher.
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