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Discussion: what's the best senior bat, gave up on the gsc promises.

Posted Discussion
July 2, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
what's the best senior bat, gave up on the gsc promises.
After a year of hearing how the gsc solid core bat was due out anytime I give. Whats the best senior bat with durability being most important, but with reasonable distance. I haven't broke a Worth yet, because I haven't tried or seen one. Due to play tournaments again, plan on swinging easier to avoid breaks. I should improve my average by concentrating on a quality swing. Hopefully enough distance will be there. I will appreciate any good recommendations on what's best. Thanks
July 2, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Also, might a more heavy bat increase durability. I have always used 26 oz to get bat speed. Maybe someone with bat manufacturing or other relevant experience has some good ideas.
July 2, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
976 posts
I would try the Reebok... I talk to a lot of guys on the circuit and I am getting great feedback from those that use them all... My feelings too.. I have bought 4 of them. I'm getting 200 plus swings on them and I'm hard on bats.
July 3, 2012
Tri18
568 posts
Captain,
The reebok is certainly an excellent choice. The combat in either white or black is the most durable. Either will give you good performance. Stay tuned for future developments....I'm happy to send you what you need or answer questions. Alan tricoach18@att.net
July 3, 2012
hemi racer
Men's 65
63 posts
I agree with Alan(Tri18), our travel team has tried several bats and the reebok seems(at this time)to give best peformance and value for the money.

On the question CAPT D5 had on the heavier bat being more durable, would the heavier bats not have a thicker wall to weigh more? Making them more durable.
July 3, 2012
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2581 posts
Hemi, I've always heard that the bats are the same weight, that the weight is adjusted by the rod in the handle and/or the weighted endcap/plug. I'm sure Tri18 and other would know more about this.
July 3, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4250 posts
I think that the rod and cap weights are primarily for the balance point and how that effects the stats or BPF for each assn's guideline. Some rods are rubber, plastic others steel. More than likely other forms for weight are also used.
July 3, 2012
hemi racer
Men's 65
63 posts
I agree with Alan(Tri18), our travel team has tried several bats and the reebok seems(at this time)to give best peformance and value for the money.

On the question CAPT D5 had on the heavier bat being more durable, would the heavier bats not have a thicker wall to weigh more? Making them more durable.
July 3, 2012
gott2play
Men's 55
137 posts
Capt D5,

Go with the Original Combat Da Bomb (Silver). Durable as all hell and with pop. I've had one for 6 years, used it in cold weather and it's still good to go. During that time I've broken countless Miken UII's, a few of Reebok Melee's, and a Worth Launch 510. I keep it as a back-up.

Tony Baltazar
So Cal 55's - 55 Major
Desert Dawgs - 50 AAA

July 3, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Capt D5............The Reebok is readily available. The year could be over before you find the Original Combat Da Bomb.
July 3, 2012
gott2play
Men's 55
137 posts
Salio,

From the front page on the senior softball site, click Senior Softball Store.com, go to Page 4, they have 'em for $189.95 free shipping. I swing a Reebok Melee myself, but this Combat is a great back-up.

Tony
July 3, 2012
Tri18
568 posts
Call me at 561-718-7504 and it ships today. You will have it by Saturday for bp! Alan
July 3, 2012
surf88
Men's 60
845 posts
Capt D: I also recommend our Reebok Vector-O which is approved by ASA, USSSA, ISA and NSA. It is the same bat as our senior Melee but with a thicker laminated barrel and it has excellent pop after being broken in. I have allowed many players to use mine from 22-65. It has well over 1,500-1,700 hits on it and is an excellent cold weather bat also. I have 6 left and no more will be manufactured bacause of cost. If I can assist you in acquiring one, please contact me.
Ed Andrews ed@ewandrews (970) 728-3144/729-3145
July 4, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
gott2play...........that which you see is a re-
issue........not the OG. You would have to purchase an OG from a previous owner.
July 4, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
gott2play...........I'm sure that the bat being sold now is fine, but not the same as the REAL ORIGINAL that came out in '06. Sorry for the intrusion.
July 4, 2012
gott2play
Men's 55
137 posts
Salio,

No problem, thanks for the clarification. I thought that maybe they were the same, performance-wise. It would seem that they are not since I've been asked by many if I would sell mine, which won't happen. Like I stated earlier, I swing a Reebok Melee EL, super hot bat, but the Combat will always be my back-up.

Tony
July 4, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
I appreciate the advice on the best bat, still plotting on whether going heavier will help with durability. Don't know if any research by manufacturers or knowledge gained by experience exists on the subject.. Might be a subject worth pursuing more. Again, thanks. D5
July 4, 2012
surf88
Men's 60
845 posts
Some of the players I worked with have the philosophy that if you are strong enough to swing a heavier bat, do it. Everyone thinks differently of course. Ed
July 4, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
380 posts
In past many references that a 26oz and 30oz composit bat are the same in wall thickness.
The weight is adjusted by the rod in handle and endcap area.
I just bought a new black combat CENT. 30oz balanced
and it seems to swing with the same weight as my
26oz Demarini Classic, bat speed seems to be same.
July 4, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
If the bat walls remain the same then weight would not matter. Then swinging a heavier bat would likely slow bat speed. Physics normally indicates speed is more important in generating power. Of course only in practice will all factors play out. At this point it looks like the lighter bat is ok for durability. Performance is another issue. Thank you
July 4, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
380 posts
CAPT D5,
as others have stated and I find very true for me is the more weight I can swing at the same speed the faster a ball will go because the bat speed stays higher after striking the ball.
If your bat speed is much lower after striking the ball then the ball will not exit as fast or far. What has happened is the bat has absorbed the impact instead of transfering all the energy to the ball.
July 4, 2012
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2581 posts
Crusher, you and I are on the same wave length!
I use a 29 or 30 endloaded bat, thinking that my bat speed after striking the ball is higher than with a lighter bat.
July 4, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
I appreciate the info, what works for each is what matters. Some lose feel as a bat gets lighter so to each his own, no matter what works for most. The Physics of Baseball book states in baseball the heavier bat, to a limit, is best for power. Baseball hitters over the years have gone, as a whole to lighter bats. Softball is its own game. I like light bats generally, but can hit long with any. Light bats give me more control. This hopefully is about sharing info not about who isd right based on majority opinion.
July 4, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
414 posts
I have read authorities who say the ball leaves the bat so fast that batspeed after contact is irrelevant. I don't know if this is true and would encourage anyone who knows to speak up.
July 4, 2012
bkb555
83 posts
I will refer this to the technology of golf where technology is first and foremost on ball striking, club speed etc.....the faster the swing speed the farther the ball will travel...of course most of the numbers use consistent clubs and weights etc...when you throw in the differences in bat weights and swing speed, there is a formula to calculate distance...I am sure something like mass times velocity (momentum) will play a huge part...but the thing to remember is that the only way to test these things is to actually get three different bats and go hit them...but also take into consideration of pacing yourself i.e. hitting only 5 balls before moving onto the next bat size to keep from tiring out thus changing things like bat speed and mechanics of swing...I am sure "somebody" has conducted this experiment but back to my original idea, I think bat speed is the key to distance and a lighter bat might generate that faster whip..jmo though..bkb555
July 4, 2012
bkb555
83 posts
so...for the past 20 years i have been using a 26 ounce bat...i guess in a 4 at bat game a heavier bat might generate a few extra feet but over the course of a weekend tourney where you play 6-10 games possibly, mechanics will break down as the body tires and bat speed falls as you continue to use a heavier bat....
July 4, 2012
bkb555
83 posts
oh...my bats of choice are Worth 454 Legit balanced for USSSA and Reebok Melee 34-26 for senior tourneys.....thanks alan Tri18 for the heads up on these babies...good advice and for others who may need a bat, Alan is a good guy
July 4, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
My original question involved durability as the main consideration. Most of the info shared is interesting and appreciated. I am though, interested in learning more about the worth senior bat. Also, I do remember something from kinesiology about the longer the bat is in contact with the ball during a swing the farther it goes. Which Is why a pulled ball often go farther. Hitting Is both simple and complicated which makes it fun.
July 4, 2012
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2581 posts
bkb555, is your Melee a utrip or ASA bat? Or, is it the Melee Legend, the senior bat?
July 4, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
380 posts
CAPT D5, if a light bat works for you use it. You will find that will help your game performance.
Good Luck.
James
July 4, 2012
garyheifner
334 posts
I have developed a different or maybe strange philosophy on this bat and breaking issue. I sold my snowmobiles and rarely ski out west anymore. So my retirement hobbies are my Harley, golf and softball. I put a bunch of time and $ into softball because I am a junkie and love playing the game. If I break a bat, so what! I order a new one. I budget my softball habit into expenditures. Heck, I still know guys/players who will belly up to the bar, put down a $100 bill and buy until it'gone and blow money on ridiculous things. A few that even buy a new car every year. Why ??? So what's a $180 delivered for a softball junkie?????? Guys, you can't take it with you.
July 5, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
414 posts
The following website is by a physicist who specializes in bats and worked as a consultant to Combat:

http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats.html

I do not understand most of it (there are many pages you can access from the main page which are more or less accurately described on the homepage). Based on my reading which may be wrong
I have concluded the folowing:
1. The equation for the force exerted on the ball squares the batspeed and the mass is not squared. Therefore batspeed is the most important
variable.
2. The speed of the bat after contact is totally irrelevant. The ball is in contact with the bat
for such a short period of time that it is gone before you feel it (except for hits off the handle.
3. The speed of batted balls off different bats is generally nor relevant to safety.(Baseball not softball study). Key to safety is pitcher position after releasing ball.
4. For cheaters there is a page on different ways to mechanically break in bats, one of which appears much better. Softball study.
I welcome comments on the science.
July 5, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
169 posts
garyh..That's what I'm talking about..I'm in the same boat as you..But I use a bat, if it works, I just stay with it. I spend my cash on what I enjoy..Softball and Golf are my fav's and I don't go the cheap route on either..Same as my cyling and running..Buy the best and don't worry about the rest..
July 5, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
My philosophy is I don't like telling others what to do or being told what to do. Also, If you don't mind spending hundreds on bats great. If you never break bats great. After breaking a thousand dollars worth of bats in a few days I decided enough. I can give up some distance and want more durability. I will go back to the combat and probably add a little weight as an experiment. I will share the results. Maybe a little less bat speed will increase durability. If any of you rich guys want to donate me and some of my teammates new bats you are welcome. My our wifes will appreciate it.
July 5, 2012
the wood
1071 posts
Capt D:
You can't go wrong with a Senior Combat... a lot of guys on here will give you advice about which bat is best for you. Some of them do have a good working knowledge of bats in general but hardly any of them will know what works best for you.
The best advice someone can offer you is try them out and see which seems best (like BKB555 stated). But BP is not the same as game conditions in terms of hitting difficult pitches.
Going heavier should increase the life of the bat because, in theory, you won't swing it as fast... again, in theory. But I get close to 1,000 swings per bat and I use a 26 oz Combat (end load)... white and/or gray models. The 1,000 swings is pertinent to the gray ones as I haven't had the white ones long enough to make that claim. The announcer for the USA v. Future Games mentioned that many of those players use a 26 oz bat. They seemed to demonstrate lots of distance, bat control, etc.
Finally, it was asked about the bat shell itself and the weight distribution. Most bat makers make one shell for all of the same model and use end load or balancing weight (rods) to differentiate between a 26, 27, 28, etc. Combat makes several different barrel types (barrel length) and colors so each of them are made separately. But a gray model bat is most likely the same regardless of which weight you prefer... until the weight and rod are added.
Reebok uses different graphics for end loaded and balanced. But I do not know if the specs of the bat itself are any different. I'm not a Reebok guy.
I hope that this helps.
Bob Woodroof
July 5, 2012
Tri18
568 posts
Olden and slow...interesting. I am also a certified fitness consultant, triathlon, cycling, and running coach and i compete in the Ironmans each year.What kind of cycling do you do?
Alan tricoach18@att.net
July 5, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
The wood, Thanks for the good info. I tend to agree with the 26 oz, but want to try a little heavier as an experiment. I know from experience I can hit with it, just want to give the heavier bat a chance for durability. Thanks again for the advice.
July 5, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
169 posts
Alan...Mostly road but some MTB.. But I have also done Some Ironman Tri's and 1/2s along with 18 Marys and a bunch of 1/2 Marys..Not doing a lot of that these days but continue to run 4-5 times a week and cycle 2-3 times monthly..This is what allows me to play Softball 2-3 times a week and tourneys without geting fatigued..Speed took a while to come back but finally did...and BTW I'll be 64 in 2 months and (this for gari19). I always run for myself :-o)
July 5, 2012
garyheifner
334 posts
HJ

Question about your point # 2. I think Ray Dimarini's studies showed that hitters who kept up bat head speed or had the lowest drops in bat head speed after contact hit the ball futher.

Not arguing with you, just curious. Just wondered if your study data debunked the Dimarini theory.
July 5, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
yes gary,that is what he says.he tested(i have the video he made)and was able to dry swing bat weights 26-29 oz at close to the same speed(95mph+),but his after contact speed went way down(55-65 mph).the 65 mph was with a 26 oz bat..he said to use the heaviest bat that allowed the highest after ball contact speed.
July 6, 2012
Tri18
568 posts
Olden slow, that's great...I'm training for ironman Cozumel right now.I also have my own line of tri and cycling wear. Shoot me an email and we can compare triathlon war stories...! Tricoach18@att.net
July 6, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
414 posts
garyh, As I understand the science, batspeed after you hit the ball is irrelevant. The professor has a video on his site of a major leaguer hitting a HR and the bat has actually left the batter's hands before contact is made so there was no batspeed at all after contact. The only variables that appear relevant are the speed of the bat at contact and its mass. Videos he has show the bat bending in at contact and the softball deforming to 1/2 its size at contact. The forces created are so great that contact with the bat is in milliseconds. It is gone before you
feel the contact.
It is possible that DeMarini was correct but what hapenned before contact was what created the faster batspeed after contact. I don't know. The professor does talk about the trampoline effect of bats and explains why composite bats get hotter. Incidentally, the professor demonstrated that bats he tested went downhill after about 1000 hits, but that may not be relevant to today's bats.
July 6, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Bat speed and bat acceleration are different in that acceleration is speed increasing each moment. Acceleration will increase the force applied at contact. An accelerating contact will continue after contact but will have no effect. The acceleration into contact is whats important. Thus a swing like a whip, generating accelerating speed will generate the most power. At least this is the best I can recall from my old kinesiology.
July 6, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
414 posts
Don't want to belabor it, but the emphasis on what I read was always on the speed at contact since the ball is gone so quickly. I know some technical teachers have the hitter hit into a bag
with the intent to generate max speed at impact,
period. They even teach relaxing thereafter.
July 6, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
HI, The teachers are likely emphasizing that its important to maintain speed, especially acceleration. Most important is not reduce speed or acceleration at and thru contact. Also the longer the bat is in contact with the ball with the most acceleration the better. Once the ball is gone its done, just relax and follow thru with out hurting yourself. At least that's a theory taught.
July 6, 2012
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Many years ago back in the late 70's I had a hitting conversation with Greg Fuhrman, one of the best of all-time. Back then when most were using heavier bats, 30 oz. and above, Greg was using a 26-27 oz. bat. He said something to me that has stuck with me ever since. He said, it is really quite simple. "Maximum bat speed at the point of contact creates maximum distance." Pretty simple indeed. One needs to choose a bat weight that can accomplish that for you. For some it may be a 26 oz. bat and for some it may be a different weight. Personally I now use a 27oz. bat and may switch to a 26 oz. bat as I get tired later in the weekend in order to maintain my maximum bat speed at all times. This has worked very well for me. I also believe that finishing your swing or follow through is also very important to complete the swing for distance. There are many hitting guru's out there, but Ray DiMarini was one of the best and in my opinion right on the money. Good luck to all in your experimentation. Hope you find something that works for you.
July 6, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
The Bull would have been a great hitter swinging a broom handle, so what he said might not automatically apply to everyone else. It could, but just use some judgment.

Joe Young once said not to take too much BP, because excessive swings can create bad habits. Joe would have been great probably no matter just about anything, so again what guys at that level said probably worked for them but might not for the rest of us.
July 6, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
The Bull would have been a great hitter swinging a broom handle, so what he said might not automatically apply to everyone else. It could, but just use some judgment.

Joe Young once said not to take too much BP, because excessive swings can create bad habits. Joe would have been great probably no matter just about anything, so again what guys at that level said probably worked for them but might not for the rest of us.
July 6, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
The concept of hitting thru the ball is fine in that it helps in not letting up on applied force before the ball leaves the bat. Its probably, like when the football coach says to drive thru your opponent when making a tackle. When the balls gone its gone, unless some quantum mechanical force, or something else is in effects that we don't know about. Newtonian physics is my conceptual limit. When all is said, come game game time, relax,with the hands back, have an intent. Then see the ball big and put the fat part of the bat on the ball hard. Thats what works now for me, but will probably change soon. Its a fun game, different for all. lets just enjoy it as long as our bodies and wifes allow. Time for me to get out and play. Good luck
July 7, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
CAPT D5......your first sentence say's it all. My daddy once told me that when you get in fight, don't just punch him in the face, drive your fist through his face and hit the back of his skull. Works in softball too.
July 7, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
256 posts
In batting there are many different styles that work, bat speed important, but most important thing in my opinion is timing, everything comes together at once.
July 7, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Timing is a given. Nothing happens w/o timing. Proper timing can result in a sequence where maximum acceleration results. This can be a never ending discussion, with topics like balance, rotational force etc. coming into play. When game time comes, you trust the swing you have developed and just see the ball hit the ball with a purpose. As said, hitting is both complicated and simple.
July 7, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
256 posts
You just mentioned the other important ingredient.....hit with a purpose. Without both... timing and focus (purpose), your chance of a quality at bat goes way down. Like you said could be a never ending discussion, like what is considered a quality at bat.
July 9, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
346 posts
Today I hit the new gray made in USA Miken and compared it to my personal Rebok Melee Legend. The Miken hit pretty good I thought. Ball came off of it really well with plenty of zip. Hit 4 real long home runs with it. Then I Pulled out my Rebok, and I was amazed at the difference in distance. I hit 7 really long home runs and they were all longer by about 20-30 feet than with the Miken. This was my first expirience with comparing bats at the same batting practice session. So for me I'll stick with my Rebok. Both bats were 30 oz.
July 10, 2012
Tri18
568 posts
Mario,
The Reebok is certainly the top performer these days. It is very important to hit the same balls , the same time with various bats to get simple testing results you can use. I have all of the Reeboks in when you need one. Alan tricoach18@att.net
July 10, 2012
Stretch14
Men's 50
180 posts
Red or yellow Mario.

July 11, 2012
stick8
1238 posts
Dale, I will have you know I'm exclusively using the yellow Reebok you got for me last year. Balls are really zinging off of it!! I did get a red one and for some reason after at least a couple hundred swings it doesn't have the same pop the yellow one has--maybe it's just me.
Do you find this to be common when comparing the two bats?
July 11, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
346 posts
Stretch I was using the Yellow Rebok.

Stick, I have only swung the Yellow one, have not found anyone using a 29 or 30oz Red one or I would tell you if there was a difference. You know that the Yellow one is endloaded and the Red one is balanced, right?
July 11, 2012
surf88
Men's 60
845 posts
For the record, I have heard from a number of guys who bought the balanced Melee Legends from me and they are saying they are getting excellent performance and more durability from their red (balanced)bats. I plan on swinging a 26 Balanced to see for myself.

I'm currently swinging the yellow EL so what I share above is again from those who have called me with their feedback. I have red in stock.
Thanks,
Ed Andrews ed@ewandrews.com
July 11, 2012
BJ_30yearCG
19 posts
Good Day,

I have swung with both the Reebok (end load, thanks to TEAM SPORTS (Alan - Tri18)) and also the Miken U2 end load, (both were brand new out of the rapper). Both have great pop, however; the Reebok was a little hotter out of the wrapper. Good luck and best of health to all. BJ
V/r
July 11, 2012
Stretch14
Men's 50
180 posts
Thanks Mario.
July 13, 2012
stick8
1238 posts
Dale, yes you did tell me that. Just seems odd because I've always preferred a balanced bat. Looking forward to next weekend!!
July 13, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
207 posts
bought TWO Reebok's from Tri18 (Alan)

THANKS Alan::::::::

I didn't know which to get, balanced or end loaded, so I bought both (30 ounce)---I just like heavier bats.

Tooks about 20/25 swings with both this past Tuesday evening, first few swings out of the box (with both) were impressive.

Used for first time in game last night, was 3 for 4 and used both bats twice, inconclusive to which is better, the end load certainly feels "much heavier" with the weight distribution.

They both "feel" good and I will give a better progress report after a few more games and two upcoming tournaments.

Short term I think I am going to stick with the balanced so I'm not swinging two different sticks every game.

All I can tell you is I now have a month old Miken Black U2 which honestly is the absolute worst Miken I ever bought, and I have had several balanced and red end loaded models in the past.

Something is wrong with the new one's. They "Just Ain't Right"!!!!!! Don't even sound the same??? I will say it probably has somewhere between 250/300 batting practice swings, and still "looks like" a new bat, which is another sign something is differnt about it LOL.

July 13, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
346 posts
Stick, I'm biting at the bit to get there next weekend. It seems like forever since we got to play.
July 14, 2012
Tri18
568 posts
17,
You are welcome. I'm glad you like the bats...they certainly are very consistent performers now which is a huge plus for all of us. Just got in a bunch more yesterday so let me know when your buddies need some!
Alan
Team 1
Tricoach18@att.net
July 14, 2012
stick8
1238 posts
Yes, by my count it's been 11 weeks since we last played. Way too long.
July 15, 2012
JamesLG
295 posts

The two hottest senior bats I have ever swung are the Reebok end load and Miken red end load but I do not use either one of them. I choose the black U2 because for some reason it fits my swing better and I find the sweet spot most of the time. Many of my softball friends have switched to the balanced Reebok and seem to be hitting the ball further than they ever have so I am going to give one of them a shot. They also say it has a larger sweet spot than the end load.

Thank You:

James
July 16, 2012
surf88
Men's 60
845 posts
Bat went out today James. Thanks for the business. If you need Reebok Melee Legends, I have them and have been helping seniors with their bat needs for almost 3 years. I believe customer service is critical as many players have come to expect. Playing senior ball since 1999.
Thanks,
Ed
ed@ewandrews.com
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