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Discussion: Strike or No Pitch

Posted Discussion
July 23, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
437 posts
Strike or No Pitch
A little diversion on a Mon., post game.
Batter disgusted with strike call steps out of batter's box and walks about 10 feet away. Time out is not called. Before batter returns to the batter's box, the pitcher pitches it and it hits
the mat.
Defensive team says no time out so it is a strike.
Offensive team says under ASA rules there is a sportmanship rule so it should be no pitch. They also say that pitcher is not allowed to quick pitch, must present ball to batter, so it is also an illegal pitch.
I have no idea what the right call is.
July 23, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4334 posts
Under which rules were you playing?
That might make a difference but I think a no pitch would be in order since batter wasn't in box yet, but some might argue batter was out of box therefore he is out... Not sure about distance of 10 feet away for stepping out to delay a pitch, as being just either. When I do it to delay another fast pitch it is so no more than 1- 2 feet out of the box with a hand raised. (to stop game)
If here use the book here on line. ASA also has it.
July 23, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Shouldn't matter where the batter was standing, in the box or out. If time has not been called by the umpire the ball is alive and a pitch can be thrown. Guys this age really never learned that players ask for time and umps grant it? A "hand raised" should not stop the game, never has. The ump MUST grant time out, that should be the only way the game is stopped.

Sportsmanship rule? HJ, surely you jest.
July 23, 2012
stick8
1265 posts
Im not sure about ASA but in USSSA if the pitcher is on the rubber and in a pitching motion and the batter steps out of the box any pitch delivered is an automatic strike no matter where it lands.
If time out wasn't called then the umpire certainly doesn't have to call time out, but he can if he wants. But ASA might be different.
Rule of thumb in any association: if you want time out while batting look at the umpire and ask for time out while the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher
July 23, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
437 posts
My post made it clear that I was presenting both arguments, not advocating any position, and, in fact, not sure what the correct call is.
Notwithstanding that, someone felt an ad hominem
attack necessary. Way to bring the discussion down.
That said I checked the rules of SSUSA on this website and found this:

Article 7: Not commit any act that could be considered unsportsmanlike conduct.

Reasonable minds can disagree on whether this is
unsportsmanslike conduct, but it certainly could be so considered.

Rule 6.11 of SSUSA mirrors an ASA rule which prohibits a quick return before the batter has taken his position. It has to be a quick return if the batter is not in the box.

Of course requesting time is the right thing to do, but that changes the facts from what occurred.
July 23, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
How is pitching the ball when time is in even remotely unsportsmanlike? A batter in his 50s, or older, not knowing the proper way to request time is the pitcher's fault? My kids knew that when they were 9, both the boys and the girls.

The point is the batter in the original post acted like a child, stepped out of the box because he was "disgusted with the strike call" (poor baby), doesn't protect himself by getting time before he goes off to pout, and then not only do they want a no pitch but also an illegal pitch. And all while time is still in.

Funny. Embarassing, but funny.
July 23, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Some umpires allow batters to step out even though it's not strick to the rules. Probably, as game management, just to keep good relations, and games running smoothly . With one umpire games it can help. Also, a batter can claim a distraction, such as dust getting the eyes, allowing the batter to step out without calling for time. When umpires deviate from rules, for better or worse, it sets up past practice issues for rule interpretations. It's possibly best to give people the benefit of doubt when possible to promote better discussion, without concerns of being jumped.
July 23, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I am not trying to jump anyone. I was just saying it has always been standard practice to ask for time from the ump. Again, for the 38 years I have been playing, players request time out and umpires grant it. Otherwise the game becomes anarchy.
July 25, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
996 posts
if the batter was ten feet away from the plate and he had not started his wind up to throw it, it should of been automatic timeout IMO.. everything after that should be called no pitch.. now if he stepped out while pitcher was ready to throw the pitch it's the batters fault! IMO.. umpire probably made a statement to someone for obviously questioning his strike calls!
July 25, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"automatic timeout" does not exist in any rule book I know of. It has to be asked for, and has to be granted.

Heck, with time still being in the pitcher should have thrown the next pitch long before the guy had the time to get 10 feet out of the box. If he is that ignorant of the rules, he can pay a price and hopefully learn for the next time what little kids often already know.
July 25, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
996 posts
when someone is ten feet away from homeplate I would not be chicken shit ump and call a pitch a strike in softball until both party's were ready! My feeling if the pitched drops a guys steps out to readjust his gloves or clear his eyes without calling timeout, is a legal auto time out for the batter... Did he ask, no, but most umps are giving the batter a time out with out asking for it. he's not in the batters box is he? he didn't ask for time out did he? it's a moment in the game where it's understood and given automatically!
July 25, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Sure some/most umps might give time anyway, but are under no obligation to. And let's go back to the original post. The guy stepped out to whine, pout, and show his disgust with the call. In other words, to show the ump up. Seriously, how many umps are going to do that a-hole any favors?

So if I dive into a base, get pants and a face full of dirt, and step off the bag to brush myself off without asking for time do I get an "automatic" time out? I sure don't think so. What's the difference?

July 25, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
437 posts
The difference is that the rules don't allow for
pitching when the pitcher know the batter isn't ready. Read above post. As usual, Swing makes the
most sense to me. Again this goes back to what is the most important thing.
July 25, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"As usual, Swing makes the most sense to me"

swing thinks there is such a thing as an automatic timeout, so I am not so sure in this case he is making the most sense.
July 25, 2012
southernson
257 posts
IMO - This is an umpire's discretion and I have seen it go both ways....

And I look for it as I pitch...

If the ump did not call time out, and he didn't like the batter's reaction, it could be strike 3.

Or the ump may provide a courtesy and say no pitch...

IMO, strictly an umpire's interpretation...but I make the pitch everytime....
July 25, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
southernson, I can't agree more.

If the ump's hand is not up, the pitch is coming.
July 25, 2012
frampton
Men's 55
55 posts
The original post didn't give us any clue what the ump did or said. If the ump was in position and watching the pitcher, without putting a hand up, I'd say it is a strike. (Though IME the ump will, and should, tell the batter to return to the box if the batter left the box before the pitcher has set up to pitch.) If the ump was looking at and/or talking to the batter, and the pitcher just pitched the ball, I'd say that was no pitch. Unlike hardball, the ball is dead between pitches, no?
July 25, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
996 posts
I really believe it's pretty Chicken crap to call a pitch a strike when the batter is ten feet from home plate between pitches.. It wouldn't happen to me nor a quick pitch or not being ready because I always ask for time before I ever get in the box.... once in the box I never take my eye off the pitcher. Seen to many cagey pitchers get others out with them not paying attention. I like to control the box and not the pitcher! So no matter what your feeling is on this matter, if you do what I just talked about it would be a mute point!
July 25, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
swing, I can understand what you think of the strike call, but keep in mind the batter stepped that far out to whine and pout and essentially show the ump up. He left himself wide open for what happened to him.
July 25, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
996 posts
As I stated before I'm sure the ump was making a statement... LOL
July 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
He might have been, who can blame him, but he was also quite correctly applying the rule.
July 26, 2012
neck10
491 posts
if its leauge play ump will usally give us time out when we step out of box if its tournement play you better ask for time or it might not be awarded Ive steped out befor & ask for time in ussa & had to step back in because the ball was coming.
July 26, 2012
RaptorPete
3 posts
Senior Slowpitch Softball, another time-out/stop play situation.
With 1 out, a runner on second base, batter walks. Ball is thrown back to the pitcher. Meanwhile the runner at second base is casually walking around the base waiting for the next pitch to be made. Can the pitcher throw the ball to the second baseman in an attempt to "pick-off", if thats the correct terminology, before making a pitch to the next batter? I was always under the impression that throwing the ball back to the pitcher, at the pitchers mound, while waiting for the next batter was like calling an unofficial 'Time Out'. And until the next pitch to the batter was made, this stoppage of play was still in effect. Had a big brawl over this one. Any references to any ASA rules concerning this situation would be appreciated.
Thank you.
July 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Pete, did guys over 50 actually think that was a live ball situation and the runner could be tagged out? Wow.......
July 26, 2012
RaptorPete
3 posts
Gary 19, yes they did. Actually there was quite a heated arguement about the situation and thats why I'm inquiring as to what happens to the state of the game in a situation such as this. I haven't played softball as much as most people but I can remember always being told to throw the ball back into the pitcher, who had to be reasonably close to the pitchers mound, and that would effectively stop play. Play would then resume with the next pitch. Can you help me?
July 26, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
437 posts
Did the runner on 1st touch 2nd or not. If not, then I think he can go back to bag and getting tagged 1st is irrelevant. If he touched 2nd and then wandered off, I think he does it at his own risk. If there is a rule, I don't know it. If the
pitcher pitches before while he is not touching the bag, he is out if ump sees it and appeal made. If the pitcher assumed the pitching position and made the requisite 1 second stop, then he must pitch it. If not, I think the runner
can be picked off. Why not? I think the burden is on the offense to come up with a contrary rationale.
July 26, 2012
RaptorPete
3 posts
HJ, the base runner was at second base when the the batter walked. First base was open. Umpire called ball 4, batter went to first base and ball was thrown back to pitcher. Runner at second could not advance and was just milling around waiting for the pitcher to get in position to pitch to the next batter.
July 27, 2012
bkb555
86 posts
my understanding is....If the batter isn't in the box, then there can't be a strike...that being said, I suppose the umpire has to grant a timeout to the batter first but as a courtesy, the pitcher usually doesn't pitch the ball unless the guy is in the box......I suppose a smart/veteran pitcher might just throw a "practice" pitch to see what the ump might say BUT , the bottom line is, the guy was irate over a ball/strike call and made the ump look bad....it is mat ball for god's sake...it hits the mat or it doesn't....pretty simple concept here...unless the ball takes 10 seconds to come down, there isn't much of a ceiling so JUST BE READY to hit the ball.....if it hits the mat, it is a strike...batter, man up...it's not like you start with a ball and strike like u-trip...you have 3 THREE strikes to look at coming in at 6 miles an hour (maybe more) stop arguing and get in the box...oh yeah one other thing, How many fields have clearly outlined batter boxes too?????
July 27, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Pete, in that situation the runner CANNOT be tagged out, just as he cannot advance to third. The ball is dead. Now, as I can tell you are aware, he has to be back on the base when the pitcher returns to the rubber and is ready to deliver the next pitch or he can be called out then.

bkb, there can be a strike called anytime that time is in regardless of where the batter happens to be. If he steps out of the box without requesting and receiving timeout he is doing so at his own risk. But I completely agree with you that he was doing his best to show up the umpire and then he expects the ump to cut him a break. Just ridiculous.
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