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Discussion: What does it take?

Posted Discussion
Aug. 20, 2012
Gorilla Boy
Men's 50
183 posts
What does it take?
I have looked at this number before and now I would like your opinions on how many swings do you think you should get out of your senior softball bat before it breaks for the amount of money that you spend. I know the number varies but lets hear what you really need out of a senior softball bat?

Gorilla Boy
Aug. 20, 2012
Mulewhipper
54 posts
For the amount of money we spend on bats...1000 total swings would be what I would like to get...REALISTICALLY though...500 is about where the cutoff point for me is.
If I can get 500 swings...cant complain too much.

If you average 20-25 at-bats per tournament plus BP and break in period...500 should get you through a season.
Aug. 20, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
369 posts
Mike, Dale Mayo here, I think if I get 5-600 swings out of a senior bat, I'm doing good. I average about 12-1400 out of the young kids bats. So I think about 1/2 of that is a good honest number.
Aug. 20, 2012
Gorilla Boy
Men's 50
183 posts
Thanks guys. That is what I am talking about. The next question is what price point would you pay if you got 750 to 1000 swings per bat?

Gorilla Boy
Aug. 20, 2012
PJ3P
Men's 50
68 posts
Mike it is so hard to say. I have had 3 Reeboks in the past year. The first one lasted about 375 swings and the second one 260. The one I have now has a 1/2" crack at just 160 swings. My two MM Gears lasted 600 swings each. But, I had a Supermax Psycho that after 1000 swings rivaled my senior bats and it lasted 800 more swings before breaking. I have one of the new Combat Ambush bats in my bag and it is still going at 600 swings. So, I guess if I had to put a number on it, 600 for me is a pretty durable bat. I actually broke two USSSA 454's in just 400 swings each. So I guess you could say I am pretty hard on bats. Mind you 600 swings for me would be double that or more for most.
Aug. 20, 2012
PJ3P
Men's 50
68 posts
Mike it is so hard to say. I have had 3 Reeboks in the past year. The first one lasted about 375 swings and the second one 260. The one I have now has a 1/2" crack at just 160 swings. My two MM Gears lasted 600 swings each. But, I had a Supermax Psycho that after 1000 swings rivaled my senior bats and it lasted 800 more swings before breaking. I have one of the new Combat Ambush bats in my bag and it is still going at 600 swings. So, I guess if I had to put a number on it, 600 for me is a pretty durable bat. I actually broke two USSSA 454's in just 400 swings each. So I guess you could say I am pretty hard on bats. Mind you 600 swings for me would be double that or more for most.
Aug. 20, 2012
tg69
304 posts
Mike,in my opinion $200.00 is too much to pay for ANY non warranteed bat so are you asking if we could get 1000 hits on one would we be willing to pay twice as much?not me
Aug. 20, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
to me for $200 bat I would like to get 100 to 200 breakin and 300 tourney swings so my answer would be 500 and anything over that I would consider a bonus!
Aug. 20, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
if I got 700 to 1000 swings with the same performance of our bats we are swinging now I would pay $300 no problem!
Aug. 20, 2012
Gorilla Boy
Men's 50
183 posts
tg69, I understand where you are coming from. I would not want to try and sell a bat and ask double for it. I am trying to find out what is a good number for a bat to last before it breaks. The old saying "Get your moneys worth". I have always felt that softball bats break no matter what the material is. It is the nature of the beast. When you are looking for that extra performance now that is when the breakage becomes unpredictable. I am working on something and just looking for some input back from the players. I do appreciate all of your input. Thank You.

Gorilla Boy
Aug. 20, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
IMO... manufacturers use Planned obsolescence or built-in obsolescence in industrial design is a policy of planning or designing a product with a limited useful life, thus they break in a relative (close to same) amount of time depending on how hard the hitter hits as well as ball factors etc etc.
For myself I think about 750+ is a good number for a year of playing. Counting miss hits and foul balls in that. I doubt many count them.
75 hits is the least I've had twice on a Miken including foul balls.
My grey Combat has about 2k on it. But did have broken end cap replaced.
Warranted bats should be the way to go at close to same cost we are currently paying. No more than 50 more for a warranties bat.
Aug. 20, 2012
tg69
304 posts
Mike,now be as honest as you canbe.With as hard as you hit a ball, how long will one of YOUR bats last you? Without knowing your answer,Im going to bet it will cost at least $3.00 a swing.
Aug. 20, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Probably doesn't cost him a dime in reality. Think about it.
I've seen him hit too.
Aug. 20, 2012
Gorilla Boy
Men's 50
183 posts
Believe it or not but I had a Original Gray 475 swings on it and I had a 13 in yellow MM Gear with a little over 500 swings on it. I get as many swing as I do because of my swing. I use a lot of wrists in my swing and I actually have a lot of spin on the ball in my swing. I guess you could say I cut the ball.

A good friend of mine broke both bats within 25 swings at a home run derby contest. He hits the ball dead nuts. I miss the ball with my swing. He was only 25 too!

Have I broke bats in less than a 100 swings. Yes I have done that too. Honestly

I have always said the performance is there on all senior bats. It is the durability that I have always been after.

Gorilla Boy


Aug. 20, 2012
Mulewhipper
54 posts
For 750 to 1000 swings...I feel $170 is about right.

I have no statistical reasons or anything, just my gut feeling that $170 for 750-1000 swings seems about right to me.
Aug. 20, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Durability vs Performance... You can't have them both, but they're looking for the middle ground in most all of them they make.
Aug. 20, 2012
wagon487
Men's 50
516 posts
I have no complaints, I swing COMBAT!!!!
Have 2 yellow MM, 1 blue MM, 1 grey senior and 1 ambush.
My last yellow lasted 3 years....my last grey last 2.5 years.
I love me some combat.
Aug. 21, 2012
Gorilla Boy
Men's 50
183 posts
It has always been Durability vs Performance. I say why can't you have both? I know it comes down to the Manufacturers. If I am trying to improve on the senior bat it would be the durability. The hard part is to try and provide great durability with performance. That is what I have always been working on. Just looking for some feedback and I do appreciate the responses. Thank You..

Gorilla Boy
Aug. 21, 2012
hector
Men's 60
16 posts
I believe if the bat cost is $175.00+/-, 1,000 hits would be good.
Aug. 21, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
i'm with hector,$175 and 1000 hits....
Aug. 21, 2012
DCPete
232 posts
GB; you might want to add a wrinkle to your project which would be how many swings the bat lasts AFTER break-in.
Don't know if that's doable but that would be the more critical factor since a bat that lasts 500 swings but takes 400 swings to break-in isn't wouldn't be a very good product in most players minds.
Aug. 22, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
When the bats start webbing rub Wintercrest on barrel????
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Mike, the very thing that makes bats perform (thin walls) is what makes them less durable. The property that is working for performance works directly against durability. Not sure how that can ever be completely reconciled.
Aug. 22, 2012
BruceAZ
Men's 60
87 posts
Hi Mike, G19 is right, it's a trade off between performance and durability. If I could get a Senior bat to last 1 year I would be happy. I play 30 tournaments a year, 25 at bats per, equals 750 swings, plus 50-100 for break in, that's 800-850. I think most guys would be extremely happy if they could get 850 swings out of their Senior bat. I've hat Combats and Mikens and the only bat that lasted for more than a year for me was your Yellow MM Gear. Just make that bat again.

Thanks,

Bruce
Aug. 22, 2012
Beasley
Men's 50
169 posts
Good afternoon Mike,

Bruce sounds like he has it about right. I've managed to baby my bats for almost an entire year. It's nice to be able to swing them a little in BP and know you can depend on them in the game.

I also really enjoyed swinging the yellow MM but have switched to a Reebok. And now I'll be giving the Ambush a shot.

To answer the question - about 1,000 swings and I believe the current cost is about right if you're getting that amount of swings out of a bat.

Unless I can get them cheaper!
Aug. 22, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
432 posts
The MM Yellow was probably a great bat for tournament players because of the durability. But
it probably was not a market success because the "average" player would take much to long to break it in and blame the bat as a dud. Then the word got out. The Mikens and Reeboks are "hot" much quicker. Maybe a $250 bat with a 6 month warranty
would work for tournament players with 1 replacement only. Rec players are probably happy
relatively speaking with what is now available w/o warranty.
Aug. 22, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Met the Gorilla Boy for some BP to see what he is working on and again nice workout, BigMike hit 32 out of 52balls in round 1, pretty far quite a few in the 350 to 375 all 44/375 balls with a special bat that felt great, i had to suck it up alittle being the bat was a 29ounce endload haha but i whacked a few, we also hit the combat white one 27ounce /reebock yellow 29oz endload both sweet bats as you all know. But anyways hey Grinch19 we are at it again tomorrow at 10am Brookpark fields come on down and test some bats bring your boys if there available.... and anyone in area wants to get some cuts we will be there from 10am til noonish.
Aug. 22, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
981 posts
Grinch 19 LMAO!
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Some of us have bills to pay and kids in college.
Aug. 22, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Its against the law to not get a lunch break. It could be anytime and you would not show, your that type! You have bills(we all do) mine are small though. The way you post i thought you might be retired or at least be running something other than your fingers.
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Actually, unless I have been with a lot of felonious employers over the years, it is not unusual for salaried employees to not take a lunch.

With three in college I am far from being retired.
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