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Discussion: non tournament players

Posted Discussion
Aug. 21, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
non tournament players
Some make reference to non tournament players implying they are all less skilled than tournament players. I have played with many non tournament players who for a multitude of reasons don't play tournaments. Some have played professional baseball and are still top athletes. It is not valid to assume non tournament players are always less skilled. I played with some local players years ago in a major tournament nearby, which we won. We declined going to the world championship in Canada, because of the time and money. Its great that you play tournaments, but some great players don't play tournaments and are not lesser players because of it. If non tournament players are not welcome on this board, as some imply, make that clear. I don't think that is the stated purpose of the message board.
Aug. 21, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
Non Tournament players is a generalization on players that are not up to the skill level as Tournament players... sure there are a ton of Great players that quit playing for one reason or another... We have one triple A former player that I consider a non Tournament player and he gets most of the Non Tournament player comments.. No one says that a non tournament player can't comment, but when a non Tournament player is trying to belittle our SS we all love and play! We will call foul and call them what they are! Nothing personal to those that are not playing that are outstanding players! FYI
Aug. 21, 2012
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
Swing, I agree with you If you are playing then tear down the system but if you are sitting on your butt then stick your opinion in the same place. Thanks Harry
Aug. 21, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
There are many recreational players, as sometimes called, that are worthy of playing tourney ball. Many reasons for not doing so are obvious. Time, jobs, family, & money etc. etc. I know quite a few.
Many that do, probably shouldn't. I might be one of those... But I play when I can afford it.
Really wanted to go to Medford, OR next month but just couldn't swing that one. So placed an ad to play in Turlock.
Some day I hope to play in Vegas again and PHX for the 1st time.

I tried to recruit a 65 player this week I knew from my 50's\55's travel ball, but he is content playing senior baseball. Golf takes up another guys time for travel ball, but he plays league.
Aug. 21, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
I do occasionally play tournaments and know a lot of tournament players who aren't that skilled but who enjoy the tournaments. Just seems that generalizations can cause unnecessary offense. The real problem appears that of disrespect. People visiting this board can get the impression of disrespect to non tournament players. I'm sure that is not usually the intent. Don't know what causes someone to engage in the repetitious attacks refered to. There are problems involved with playing senior softball, that can be improved, but it is disrespectful to keep repeating the gripes implying everybody else is stupid. That is truely stupid. I, like most, believe the game is a gift which should be respected and enjoyed by those involved, but improvements are needed, even if suggested by non tournament players. Generalizations lead to prejudice if not applied judiciously.
Aug. 21, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
D5, I wouldn't make a big issue about this, G19 is the one that doesn't play in SSUSA anymore by his own account... He is considered a non Tournament player, because he doesn't play... Those that don't play that continue to bad mouth the entire state of SS will be called out as a non playing clown! If you think that it's a slight to all that don't play Tourneys, you are wrong! There are ton's of untalented guys playing SS at some level, however they are playing and doing something they obviously love and want to be a part of. They have first hand view of our Game and I would consider anything they have to say about the game as valid point of view! Guys sitting on the sidelines and taking pot shots at SS will be called out, as they should be! Just the way it is! IMO
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Well, if not wanting to continue paying hundreds of dollars on a flawed product is what makes one a clown, send me to the circus!

swing, what I have I said about the current state of senior softball that is not true? I realize many guys don't like having mirrors held up, so for that I guess I am a pariah, but seriously what have I said that is incorrect?
Aug. 22, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
Gary19 is already the circus here. Almost everyone I speak to and meet agrees he has no validity on the board. I don't believe I have ever seen anyone else disparage non-tournament players, probably because they realize that there are a lot of good players who just want to play a little for fun and don't want the committment of a tournament team. Look in your own mirror Gary-can you really like what you see?
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I am open-minded. Please tell me where I have been factually incorrect in what I have said.
Aug. 22, 2012
tater9
62 posts
Gary19, Telling an entire team they have no balls thus questioning their moral an ethic fiber. I asked you to prove that the entire team had no balls.. Still waiting for the facts on that one!

You and I agree on many aspects of todays senior game but your approach to change the game as you say you want to is questionable. Very poor approach! I base that on the fact that you have 2125 posts and to my knowledge nothing has changed.

By the way nothing is free...associated costs with everything!
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
tater, I was not the first to bring up their reluctance to move up when by all accounts they should have been. I am not quite sure I said each guys is missing them, but from all accounts as a team they appear to.

I know I am fighting an uphill battle. Doesn't make me wrong, just a visionary......:) But seriously, I know guys just don't quite see the improvements that could be made to make the tournaments more attractive, though I realize perhaps many do not want more teams and more competition. Which would be a shame, but that is how some can be.
Aug. 22, 2012
tater9
62 posts
Gary19, Don't care who brought it up first I asked you to prove it because you made the reference. Unless I am wrong you mentioned the entire team. It may have given you a certain appearance but can't be proven with the information you were given. I would never question the moral and ethical fiber of a human being let alone an entire group based on a couple of tournaments. We will just disagree on that one.

Never said you were wrong just your approach if you want to make change. Again, you and I just disagree on how that change should take place. I also consider myself a visionary but I do realize that nothing can be as it once was....not possible.

Are there changes that need to be made...yes...the reason I do not play anymore is because of some of the silly rules. Rather than waste my time trying to change the game I will just move on and do something else. Those that want to play....go and have a great time........it just isn't for me.

You and I both know $$$ talks and that is what will ultimately change the game.

Good luck in your quest!
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Can't argue with that.
Aug. 22, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
220 posts
Gary19, I am hearing that approx. 400-450 teams will be @the Vegas Worlds. Many of us enjoy the current tourneys! Changes need to be done to keep up with current players, equipment n other variables. But I dont believe the Senior game will ever go back to the way the game was played...I look forward to hearing some of your solutions to improve our game, then ideas can be shared in a positive way. Aloha, Fabe
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Fabe, I am sure it won't.

That is a great turnout for that tournament, though I do wonder how many it would be if it was held in Wyoming or Iowa and not Sin City.
Aug. 22, 2012
hitman
Men's 65
306 posts
G19 you could be given gold plated TP and you still wouldn't be happy.
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Not a matter of happiness, but rather perspective. Sure it is great to play in a tournament with real brackets. My simple point is that one tournament with a large crowd drawn I am sure to some extent by the location is not a real indication of the health of the senior game. That was all.

Take a poll of the attendees and see how many come if it is in Des Moines. Or Laredo.
Aug. 22, 2012
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
G19, you really are a piece of work. Last year there were 337 teams in the same tournament and it was held in Pheonix. Might be more if it weren't in Vegas. I know some teams that aren't going because of cost.
And you have said many things that may not be incorrect, but most certainly are yours and only yours opinion. And you know what opinions are like don't you?
Aug. 22, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
Gary, SS is not going to have huge turnouts because half the seniors are not playing and some are not with us. The amount of seniors that are playing is really truly astonishing! There is no way my Dad generation was playing softball at such a high level into his 50, 60,70s! Hell, not even in his 40s. I think the Worlds are a good place to see decent Turnouts.. Show up there G19 and let's see what you got! I commend all seniors for doing what we do... Now that I'm 50 I'm hoping 60 is the new 40 LOL Keep ripping the size of the Tourneys G19,when you take a shower next time, look down and ask yourself does size really matter! :)
Aug. 22, 2012
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
If this tourney was held in G19's home town the majority of teams would attend. This is a big tourney for senior softball and teams would attend no matter where it was held. actually if it was held in Cleveland there would be more teams showing up. It does not surprise me that you went to Mich. being from Ohio, it just fits. Thanks Harry
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Al, might be less if it was in Boise.

swing, no problems for me there....:) And sure size matters. Paying literally hundreds for 95+% of the tourneys to have 3 teams in a bracket, and worse yet perhaps having to socialistically give runs, matters.

Not saying it is not great that guys our ages and older are still playing, just a shame the product isn't a bit better.

You are right Harry, not a surprise at all. Michigan is an outstanding university, even better at the graduate level. And no, not because I went there. It was outstanding long before me, and continues to be long after me.
Aug. 22, 2012
Ho
231 posts
Wouldn't have that many teams in OHIO...we have to push to draw 77 for THEE Buckeye Classic each year.

The neat thing about the SSUSA tournament in VEGAS drawing 400 + teams 9/28-10/7 is the HUNTSMAN GAMES in ST. GEORGE will draw 350+ in the following 10/8-10/20 span.

That is over 800 senior softball players taking part in two tournments played back-to-back.

Speaks pretty highly of both organizations SSUSA and HUNTSMAN to put together world tournaments like this.

I would be nearly 200 of the teams playing in VEGAS will also be makingb the trip to ST.GEORGE the following week to play.

Ho

Question for SWING for THE FENCES, how long did you play fast pitch softball before you switched to slow pitch. Sounds like you were a pretty active player in your younger days. I made the switch at "45", game got too fast for me.
Aug. 22, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
Ho, I switched from Baseball to slowpitch at 30... never played fastpitch only a modified version in a league for a few seasons!
Aug. 22, 2012
Ho
231 posts
Baseball and fast pitch about the same...do you remember the first time you swung at a ball in slowpitch after playing baseball? I thought I was going to break my back when I made the switch from fast pitch.

I was using one of those old HOWARD FURNITURE silver lead pipe 38 oz and I couldn't stop my swing.

I'm sure you probably had the same experience.

Ho
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I used to play in a Sunday morning league in the mid-90s with a guy who had been a replacement player for the Braves. He would hit probably .650 for us in the morning, then turn around in the afternoon in a 30-and-over hardball league in the afternoon and hit .500 there.

Never quite knew how he made that adjustment in literally 2 hours, but he did.
Aug. 22, 2012
Ho
231 posts
He probably had been doing it for awhile. I saw a guy who played minor A ball (penn/N.Y. League)try to make the switch when playing his first slow pitch game. He struck out three times ...throw his bat into the woods and I never saw hime again.

It isn't easy to make the adjustment right away...your hands are always ahead of your hips. Does make you a good opposite field hitters as you tend to try and hold back your swing.

Ho
Aug. 22, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
Ho, I'm still fighting swinging early! LOL... I was swinging that silver and purple easton 38 oz.. trying to slow my ass down.. LOL
Aug. 22, 2012
Ho
231 posts
I can understand your problem..been there, done that.

I am sure there are others on this board who also have gone through the change from baseball and fast pitch to slow pitch and also have swung those table leg 38-0z...If not they do not know what they missed.

Ho
Aug. 22, 2012
boston
306 posts
Capt D5: I often get the impression that so-called non-tourney players are somehow not up to par with the so-called tourney players on this site. To take it a step further if you are not a Major/Major Plus player ur opinion doesn't appear to carry the same weight. I have been a competitive and still am but senior softball ssusa tourneys aren't for all of us.
I've been to enough senior tourneys to know that not all guys that play tourneys are all that good. What constitutes a tourney player? I have been to 4 senior tourneys only 1 qualifier. The rest were local senior tourneys. So do I qualify or am I one of the lesser guys on this board. I am going to the NM Senior Olympics in 2 weeks does that count. I made the decision to stop going to numerous SSUSA tourneys after Worlds 2010. Just didn't seem worth it to me. You guys that still play great but it is not the only choice many of us have.
I prefered playing with the young guns the past 2 years. I am not one of those older guys that brag about playing with the kids and either play pitcher, catcher or EH. I play LF, LC, SS and 2B. I believe I have the credentials to comment as I have in the past. I will not be in Vegas even though I have been asked to qualify for several teams. My only problem with playing softball in Vegas is. It's Vegas and I don't take the senior game serious enough to go to Vegas and concentrate on softball. That is why I never went to Winter worlds in the past. Actually, I don't take any softball serious enough to go to Las Vegas for a tourney. I guess at 58 the "thrill is gone"
My hats off to those that go and can actually stay on course. Good Luck and be safe. don't take any wooden nickels.
Webbie: See you in Rio Rancho in 2 weeks for that beer. I plan on going to happy hour at TGIF in Cottonwood Mall after the games on Friday.
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"What constitutes a tourney player?" The first requirement seems to be both an ability and certainly a willingness to spend a lot for not all that many games often against even a smaller number of opponents most of the time.

"tourney players" come in all varieties. Certainly there is a HUGE difference between the bulk of Major and Major+ guys and AA. Anytime there are four levels, by definition there is a large gap between the two. If there isn't, then no need for so many classifications.

To lump Major+ with AA and call them all "tourney players" is just absurd.
Aug. 22, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
Boston-if I can I will be there. I look forward to it!

Aug. 22, 2012
rightrj1
Men's 55
211 posts
G-19 you keep bring cost, the cost is a small price to pay for something that we love & enjoy.....If you really enjoy doing it, does it really matter what the cost is? Golf can very expensive, but guys pay to play! Guys travel and play for a number of reasons. I for one budget myself for Softball and when you win the cost really doesn't come into play...It's only when you lose; that you might say Dam I spent a lot of money!
I'll be playing in the BASA world in 2 weeks in St.louis, their expecting 300-400 teams there! Of course, most of the teams are the younger guys, but they'll still be 20-30 senior teams involved. Great tourney!
If you get a chance to go, check it out, you might have fun! Take it from a tourney player we have creditability on this board....lol
Aug. 23, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
rightj, on some level i can understand what you are saying. But it is that sheep mentality that the associations count on when they provide a less-than-ideal product, and often don't even bother to provide any type of meaningful awards.

Absolutely winning is great, but other than a very few select tournaments winning 3 or 4 team brackets just cannot really mean all that much.

I have checked it out, have played in 6 tournaments over the years, and just saw the same small brackets with essentially the same teams over and over. At this point just not my idea of a quality product.
Aug. 23, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
G 19, what do you expect living in Cleveland! LOL
Aug. 23, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
swing, you act like you are in Paris or London....:)

And hey, I did travel to Michigan, Indiana, and Kentucky to play. LOL
Aug. 23, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
Sorry Gary, I'm in a better place than Paris.. SF Bay Area! ;)
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