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Discussion: non tournament players

Posted Discussion
Aug. 21, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
non tournament players
Some make reference to non tournament players implying they are all less skilled than tournament players. I have played with many non tournament players who for a multitude of reasons don't play tournaments. Some have played professional baseball and are still top athletes. It is not valid to assume non tournament players are always less skilled. I played with some local players years ago in a major tournament nearby, which we won. We declined going to the world championship in Canada, because of the time and money. Its great that you play tournaments, but some great players don't play tournaments and are not lesser players because of it. If non tournament players are not welcome on this board, as some imply, make that clear. I don't think that is the stated purpose of the message board.
Aug. 21, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Apologize, for the repeat post,, my small smartphone and I sometimes goof.
Aug. 21, 2012
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
CAPT D5, I agree with you 100%, as I'm sure most would. My thought is that the negative comments about non tournament players are directed at one individual, not all.
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Differentiation should probably be made between guys who have never played tournaments, and those who played a half-dozen and don't need more to see the flaws in the current game. And those who fail to see the payoff in spending hundreds of dollars to play 5 games against the same 3 teams. All for the privilege of trying to win a tournament that barely, if at all, gives out any awards at the end.
Aug. 22, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
Why differentiate, Gary19-is that your attempt to validate yourself? Give it up.
Aug. 22, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Just trying to bring accuracy to your BS.
Aug. 22, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1006 posts
here is accuracy to your BS Mr19


I hate Senior softball Rules and regs.
I hate Senior bats
I hate pinch runners
I hate no sliding at home rule
I hate 5 run inning rule
I hate the number of teams in a Tourney
I hate the all the divisions
I hate rankings
I hate the Mat
I hate the 0ne in one count
I hate anything to protect the pitcher
I hate not being able to record three outs on defence
I hate that there are Seniors having a great time with out me!
I cannot believe that the senior game is so different from the game I played in the 70s and 80s.
I hate giving runs to teams in lower divisions
I hate giving a team a extra player to a team in a lower division.
I think all the lower division team should get creamed by the upper division teams
I hate the time limits
I basically hate every aspect of Senior Softball!
Aug. 22, 2012
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Hooooooweeeee...LOL... Man, Someone has a lot of issues.
Aug. 22, 2012
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Hey CAPT D5, No disrespect on this Board that I have ever seen towards Senior Leagues ball players.
We are all Senior Leagues ball players playing in week and weekend Leagues, But some of ous don't have a life so we play Tournaments. So fine something else to be upset about.

OR is this a Ralley cry for G-19.
Aug. 22, 2012
hitman
Men's 65
307 posts
TooooooWaaaaaaa,
His issues are all his own and we are tired of reading the same old BS.
In fact most of us that do play just bypass his comments and go on to something that really means more than his BS!!!!!!!!
Aug. 23, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
To once again be accurate, I don't hate pinch runners. It is "courtesy" runners that is horribly abused.

I don't hate "anything" that protects the pitcher. Gloves are just fine.....:)

And actually, I think the lower teams should work to improve rather than either look for Socialistic handouts or insist on being 12th graders playing on the Freshmen team.

hit, do you mean moving onto winning 3 team brackets and then getting to buy your own award?
Aug. 27, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Canjack, Sorry to hear about some tournament players not having a life. Most of the guys I play tournaments with do have lives. FYI, I will decide what to get upset about. As far as tournament players, I wanted to clarify something, which was mostly accomplished. As to the Gary19 thing, I don't know why people don't ignore him, it's useless to argue with him. I suppose, you could try and act like a tough guy and call him names or throw insults, if thats your style. Anyway good luck on your tournaments, they are a lot of fun. I just don't like making them my life. Been there.
Aug. 29, 2012
neck10
505 posts
gary always got to throw the little dig if they give the rings away for free take them if its an option thats what it is an (option)no one makes you buy them. we just won at lansing the guy forgot to give us the papers to order the rings(optional)& no one even noticed or knew what had happened or (cared).
Aug. 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Fair enough, but the fact that there are any tournaments who operate with the "you have our permission to spend your own money to buy a ring after you just spent hundreds per player to play in our small tournament" option is just really sad.
Aug. 29, 2012
southernson
261 posts
I gotta tell you, I love Courtesy runners, and we use them a lot.

In fact we generate another 4-5 runs a game because of speed.

Am I going to save my best hitter in the lineup from recurring hammie trouble?
You bet I am...

Am I going to put constant pressure on the opponents outfield by using speed?
It's a big part of our game that allows us to compete against higher ranked teams...

Do I feel bad about it?
Not in the least, my guys have learned to accept that approach as a weapon we can utilize to win games.

And SSUSA has rules to limit how much we can do that each inning.

So if it's in the rules, I'm going to use it....a lot.

Aug. 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Any chance that "best hitter in the lineup" could get himself into some kind of physical shape and not continue hurting himself? My God, it is only running, it is a shame if a guy cannot do that without pulling something.

I understand it is in the rules, and consequently probably should be used. The shame is that bogus "courtesy" running is allowed, but I know that it is.
Aug. 29, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Any chance that you can make that doctors appointment repeat19? or quit drinking the water at the Y. or do something different, your getting stale!
Aug. 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
So is defending the silly senior rules. But some insist on trying.
Aug. 29, 2012
green rocket
51 posts
Tournament players, league players...they are all good. The real issue is time constraints. Some prefer not to play weekends due to other considerations. Most play league (weekdays or nights)after playing tourney ball for many years.

Most of them can play both if they wanted, just a matter of preference. Ability is a non-issue. They all like to play ball.
Aug. 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Have you missed the memo? Tournament players are special. Winning a 3-team bracket over one weekend is more significant than a 6-8 team league over an entire summer.
Aug. 29, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
443 posts
"Silly rules" is an opinion. Using a pejorative adjective does not make an argument and in fact weakens an argument. Just state your opinion w/o baiting others. Southernson is being smart and using the rules to benefit his team. I thought your basic premise is win at all costs. He wins. Make your case for changing the rules and accept that others have brains and have different opinions. There is no clear right or wrong, it is all opinion so personal attacks are just silly to use your verbiage.
5Tools, are you having BP with MM this Friday?
Aug. 29, 2012
green rocket
51 posts
They all like to play. The winning and losing is secondary. Does not matter if they are playing 2 or 3 teams in a weekend or a bunch in league play over several weeks. Sure, some may get a little edgy of they lose but it's all forgotten by the next time they get out on that field.

All of them are special in my book, having the ability to play the game they love at their age and relative health.

No use getting into particulars about rules and the such. They all have to abide by them. If one does not like specifics, going to another association is always an alternative.
Aug. 29, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
HJ, Nothing this week,after the holiday will be back at it.
Aug. 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
HJ, techinically sure it is subjective, so is a woman's beauty and pornography. But most of us know it when we see it.

No baiting at all. I have written ad nauseum on here what the silly rules are. I told southernson I understand that what they do is legal, but also that the rule as written is absurd and has NOTHING to do with courtesy.

I have made that case, again, ad nauseum but there appears to be a lot of guys here who just want to protect their tiny world of senior tournament softball. I don't know, maybe they are afraid if the game became more appealing to more guys they would get more competition and would not be able to win 3-team brackets anymore.

rocket, sure you often forget the results the next day, though competitors forget a lot less easily than those who don't care about winning. To say winning and losing is secondary is silly. Why are scores and standing kept?
Aug. 29, 2012
stick8
1318 posts
Green Rocket I umpired in Lansing this past weekend. I don't imagine very many would dispute your point about ability to play the game at this age and relative health. But I don't believe for a second that the teams in Lansing (at least the ones I umpired) thought winning and losing was somehow secondary. As the saying goes "they were in it to win it"
Aug. 29, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
stick, let's hope so.
Aug. 29, 2012
stick8
1318 posts
Gary if they aren't then they are only cheating themselves.
Aug. 29, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Loosing a 3 team qualifier is not the same as loosing at the worlds with a 10 team field. Just as winning a 3 team qualifier is not the same as winning at the worlds. You don't go around bragging about winning a qualifier.
Aug. 30, 2012
stick8
1318 posts
Salio2k, besides what's at stake, I'm curious why you feel losing in a 3 team qualifier is not the same as losing in a 10 team world?
Aug. 30, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
stick8.....A 3 team qualifier is probably a local tournament where you are playing a team or teams that you play at every local tournament. The teams may not even be at full strength. If you loose, so what? You're going back to your normal life, perhaps playing in league. Your team gets back together in 3-4 weeks for another local tournament and you've forgotten the last.

Playing a 10 team world, you get to play teams that you see only once or twice a year. If you have a good team and you loose, it's probably because your defense let you down. Something like that, you remember all year. You can give a play-by-play of what went wrong even a year later.

Big difference to me.
Aug. 31, 2012
stick8
1318 posts
salio2k, don't players go back to their normal life after a world tournament regardless of how they finish?
I can relate to your second paragraph but let's say you have a good team in which you all feel your strong enough to win the worlds. Your team plays a local 3 team qualifier and your whole team is there. Your team has a bad weekend and loses. Wouldn't you believe a good team wouldn't forget that in much the same manner they wouldn't forget losing in a world tournament?
Aug. 31, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
stick, a larger truly significant tournament is probably more memorable. Sure they all wind up going back to their regular lives, just like the old Howard's guys all went back to their lives, which in many cases was working for Richard Howard. But I am sure they really cared about how they would do here in Parma every other Labor Day weekend.

Also, a lot of these guys who play tournaments just want to dismiss anything local, be it leagues or tourneys. Which is perhaps fine if they are at least Major players. But AAA or my God AA guys with that kind of attitude would be silly.
Aug. 31, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
stick8.......too many times teams are not at full strength because it's only a qualifier. Some players may come for one day but not for two. You might even have players that play league and don't want to let their league team down just to play in a qualifier. They will play one day also. If your team is at full strength and you loose to one of these half-strength teams, I can see it being disappointing that you're not as good as you thought. When teams get close to the WORLD'S,
then the whole team shows up, regardless of who the competition is.

For a world's, the team flies into town. You're there to play for THE WORLD'S!
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