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Discussion: Vegas Worlds Roster rules

Posted Discussion
Aug. 24, 2012
The real deal
Men's 60
63 posts
Vegas Worlds Roster rules
Need some help on the roster rules for Vegas: Can a team pick up a few players to fill out their roster? Or could a player whose team isn't going to Vegas play with another team? Thanks for your input...
Aug. 24, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
You would hope not, or it just becomes another pickup tournament.

The concept of "team" just seems to have disappeared...:(
Aug. 24, 2012
Chief144
Men's 60
67 posts
You have to use a "qualifying" roster. You can only add players if you drop to 11 players or below.
Contact George at SSUSA for more info.
Aug. 24, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Chief, so a team can cut their worst 3 guys and pickup 3 ringers? What would stop that?
Aug. 24, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
744 posts
Tournament Tab, Rules. Covered in this sheet

World Championships Roster Considerations & Rules (PDF)

This applies if the team has changes if beyond the qualifying date. Very strict guidelines and no you can't drop and add "stud" unless you do so in a qualifying event and even then depending on the additions you might be moved in classification.

Best advice call and get in writing.
Aug. 24, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
What would be the reason to have qualifiers if teams could just pick up any player for a world event?
Aug. 25, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1975 posts
And again Gary19 jumps in without knowing the rules and chops down the game.
Ask the Desperados how tough it is to add players-they went to Aurora with a skeleton team because they could not add anyone that hadn't qualified in an earlier tournament.
Aug. 25, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4364 posts
I think this is correct: the add on players need to have qualified on some other team in order to play on another as a 'pick up'.
Trouble here comes getting the release by that team in order to play & after from the new team should the player Not want to stay on that team. You're are only allowed one.a year.
Pick up may also have to play in different age or rating, maybe both to do this as well,
But it is all part of another part of the game in senior ball.
Some one correct me if incorrect.
Aug. 25, 2012
FreeAgent10
43 posts
taits, would you email me at gthomas39@comcast.net. Have some info for you.
Thanks
GT
Aug. 26, 2012
Mr. Manassas
227 posts
G-19....He is asking about a rule....Not your opinion about a rule...Save that for someone who cares!!!!
Aug. 26, 2012
LP
282 posts
if you are down to 10 players you can pick up two players to make a total of 12 but the pick up players must be from and older division
Aug. 26, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
331 posts
I agree with Gary19
Aug. 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"Chief, so a team can cut their worst 3 guys and pickup 3 ringers? What would stop that?"

Manassas, this clearly was a question about the application of the rule. No opinion there.
Aug. 26, 2012
The real deal
Men's 60
63 posts
Unfortunately, Gary, there probably are managers out there that discourage their worst few guys from attending the worlds by telling them their playing time will be limited - not too many guys want to spend that kind of money to sit.
Aug. 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I am sure there are. I just find it unfortunate that the associations would condone it.
Aug. 26, 2012
boston
299 posts
I personally don't see a problem with leaving weak links behind or having them understand their role on a team. If your going to spend money to travel to a tourney might as well try to win it. Most guys should understand their limitations and contribution to a team or lack of as well. If they care about the team, they will accept a limited role or stay home.
Aug. 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
boston, you don't mind if these 'nationals' and 'worlds' are nothing more than pick up games? If these guys aren't good enough to take, why do the the teams ever have them rostered?

I know we usually agree on things, but teams just changing rosters for an allegedly significant tournament is appalling and runs counter to every definition of "team".
Aug. 26, 2012
stick8
1283 posts
I agree with Gary19 on this. If a teams 3 (or whatever number) "weakest" players are going to be cut to make room for 3 (or whatever number) "better" players to put on the team why have the "weaker" players on your team from the start? Presuming there are no injuries or other personal/work commitments on the weekend of the world tourney the team you start the year with should be the team you end the year with. A player can always elect to change teams in the off-season.
Aug. 26, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
stick, it reminds me of "dance with the one who brung ya".
Aug. 26, 2012
stick8
1283 posts
That's the way I feel Gary. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Aug. 26, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Gary19..........Chief144 said to speak with George at SSUSA. Then you had the audacity to say "Chief, so a team can cut their worst 3 guys and pickup 3 ringers? What would stop that?". I thought you said that you played in tournaments, Gary? You ever see this happen? NO! You can't keep making this crap up Gary. Now you've got stick8 believing that there are teams that do that. Check the rules, call George at SSUSA! Poor Chief144 is sitting at his computer thinking "I didn't say that".
Aug. 26, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
999 posts
Salio2k.. FYI this does happen FYI I was one picked up for winter worlds with two others from an upper rated team.. this team got bumped the very next year then had to state their case why they shouldn't be with us three being released...
Aug. 27, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
The winter worlds is your team for next year. Did the team you join drop 3 inferior players to pick you up? were you in the same age bracket?
Aug. 27, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
If a participating team's roster falls below the 15/16 limit, the team will be able to add players
until it reaches the 15/16 player level. These players must be from the next OLDER age group
in the SAME or LOWER skill level. Managers must notify SSUSA in writing before September
10, 2012, of the players the team is adding
Aug. 27, 2012
stick8
1283 posts
Salio2k I've been on a senior team where it's happened. I thought it was wrong because I felt the guy who's spot was taken over didn't deserve to sit (it wasn't me btw) but I had no say so in the matter.
I suspect this doesn't happen nearly as often in senior ball as it does in young man's ball. Different rules come into play as I understand it but it's not like you can quit or get cut from a senior team and have numerous other senior teams to go to, it's somewhat limited.
If a team is formed at the start of the year that is felt to be a winning team why break up the nucleus because a couple players turn out to be "weak"? Why not go out and work with them? Take some extra bp or extra fielding? Just makes more sense to me to do that way. jmho
Aug. 27, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
stick8.........What I have seen is the the players that are not going to get a lot of playing time in the DE will get to play more in the round robin. Can't see a manager actually cutting 3 players though. Good luck at the worlds.
Aug. 27, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
999 posts
Salio, the team we played for no doubt sat three players that would of been playing if we weren't there.. The appreciated that we came with them and released us before my regular team started the season... We played in same age bracket but at a lower level.
Aug. 27, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
999 posts
I guess what you want to know is how the three players felt not playing... Well, if they weren't playing they weren't that good and I'm sure they would of felt great winning a ring even though not starting... everyone got into the games we played and we came in 3rd and were very close to winning the whole thing.
Aug. 27, 2012
stick8
1283 posts
Salio2k, your right but wouldn't that be true of a roster that's pretty much been intact the whole year?
With a month to go to Vegas I was thinking of a team adding new player(s) to a said teams roster that would put a player(s) on the pine who's played the whole year.
Aug. 27, 2012
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
That's just no right! There will always be teams that try to win at all costs.
Aug. 27, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4364 posts
Every since I have player senior ball some teams have played what I do call the game of players. That said, many players cannot for some reason to all the teams scheduled events.
Some change or cancel with little notice. I had that happen last month.
If players go to a qualifier but later cannot attend another like this one referred to, sure the mgr is going to seek a better replacement player, if he's smart. Why not do it if its allowed, and since the assn's want them there, it will likely always be.
Perhaps a better 'rule' to stem that tide or 'ringers' as someone said, would be to require the team to only use players on the team rester that did not attend a qualifier. That might cause problems for teams that bring the whole group. But you can still only play 10-11 on the field. Excess personnel sit for ever how long.
Teams want the best players and for them to give 100%. If you don't have at least the 100% chances are not very good for the TEAM.
The bigger T's are where the evolution changes the complexity of teams and the year end event is where they seek new players for the next year.
Another suggestion is a limit of say 2 players as a pick up.
Releases are the last worry for all concerned. You only get one for the year.

Aug. 27, 2012
birdie
Men's 60
681 posts
taits, I agree with you about only picking up players on the original roster. if they did not make the qualifying tourney, why should they be punished. I do not agree with picking up two players. if these players are much better than the existing roster players then they will play. It would be the same as dropping two and picking up two better players. I am totally against that concept. Thanks Harry
Aug. 27, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4364 posts
Only reason for that is a player must be from an older age group, as I believe, per the rules. Other wise I agree with you.
There are downsides for what ever is done or needed to 'live' by.
The coin flip; One side wants a better than original team, other side wants more teams teams entered. Getting the coin to land on its side is tough.
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