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Discussion: How much difference does an ounce make?

Posted Discussion
Sept. 12, 2012
0
56 posts
How much difference does an ounce make?
A batter has 2 bats.
Both end loads same make and model.
One bat weighs 27.8 ounces.
The other weighs 28.6 ounces.

Which bat should give the batter the overall best distance?
Sept. 12, 2012
Pull My Finger
70 posts
I would think that if the bat speeds are approximately the same so the extra ounce wouldn't make much difference.
Sept. 12, 2012
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2663 posts
I would think that if the batter could maintain bat speed after striking the ball that the 28.6 bat would have more distance.
Something else that might make a difference is the swing weights. Is the extra .8oz in the handle or is it in the end?
Remember when most bats were "made" heavier by installing a longer rod in the handle? I've always wondered if you liked swinging a 29oz, would it make sense to take a 26oz bat but add 3 ounces to your batting gloves? What's the difference in having the weight in the handle or on your batting gloves?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Sept. 12, 2012
Snot Nose Kid
41 posts

Interesting V E R Y interesting!

Sept. 12, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
381 posts
The heavier bat will hit the ball farther if the bat speed is the same.
Sept. 12, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
bruce don't knock the weighted batting gloves....i have a set i use(mostly during the winter months)to do tee work,and it seems sometimes the way to go,mine are 8 oz gloves....i can adjust the weight in them, as the weights are removable....i have thought about using them to hit,but......

as bruce says,use the bat that maintains the most bat speed after ball contact.....

and mario has it,if can maintain the after ball contact with the heavier bat,than that is the one that will hit it farther.....
Sept. 13, 2012
leftyfalcon
Men's 65
158 posts
mad dog played a 2 hour game against your old team in Dalton. They can hit.
Sept. 13, 2012
Bubble Gum
64 posts

BruceinGa

Interesting theory.
If using weighted batting gloves is equal to the changing the rod in the handle, then it would be conceivable that you now have 2 different bats in one.

Example: you start off with 26 oz end load bat and WALLAH. it becomes most likely a 29 oz. balanced with the use of the 3 oz weighted gloves.



Sept. 13, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Just curious. Any chance you guys are over-thinking a not very complex situation.

A person can either hit or they can't. Just a hunch, but I don't think Bert Smith used weighted gloves.
Sept. 13, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Don't you think they call it an end load for a reason...?
Time was, the added Extra weight is NOT in the handle. I would think extra weight in handle area would throw balance point way off from where the rod incorporation was used to keep swing speed and BPF at what ever level to be compliant for a particular ASSN.
Extra weight in glove may cause the grip to be uncomfortable as well. I know I don't like thick gloves.
Sept. 13, 2012
Shut Up & Pitch
55 posts

Guess I'll have to give it a try!
Sept. 13, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
442 posts
Everything I have read indicates batspeed after contact is irrelevant. I even posted a picture of a major leaguer hitting a HR and the bat had left his hands before ball contact.
If the bats are exactly the same except for weight (which is impossible) and if you generate the same batspeed with both bats, then the heavier bat will drive the ball further. The formula has the mass multiplied by the square of the batspeed (Mass x V x V). Generally there is a tradeoff because the more mass at the end (end loaded) makes it harder to generate batspeed. The correct answer is that it all depends. Restated, in the case at hand- some guys will hit the ball further with the lighter bat and vice versa. Most experts seem to say use the heaviest weight possible until batspeed decreases (even a little) and generally opt to use the lighter bat if not sure.

Again, batspeed after contact appears to be irrelevant. I know DeMarini supposedly said the opposite, but I can't find it and everything I have studied shows DeMarini was totally passionate about generating the fastest batspeed.
The physicists seem to say the time the ball is in contact with the bat is so short that only initial batspeed matters. I would like the bat
sellers to comment on post contact batspeed as relevant or not.
Sept. 13, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
HJ,no supposedly,demarini did say it and i have the video of him saying it in his vid.....if you don't maintain your bat speed the ball will NOT travel as far..try slowing your swing and see what happens.....the vid by demarini is called "MAX BAT SPEED".....

to g19 the resident know it all who always fails to be relevant,if it is good for wade boggs,good enough for me.......

the weight is in the top of the glove,doesn't bother the gripping of the bat......
Sept. 13, 2012
mikey1
12 posts
about 18 months in prison-TRUE STORY
Sept. 13, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
sad pup, so you eat a lot of chicken too?

A 40+ ounce bat was good enough for Babe Ruth. Going to run out and buy one?

Sept. 13, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
442 posts
Mad Dog,
I looked and found exactly what DeMarini said:

Hitting Tips From Ray DeMarini
These tips were posted on DeMarini Sports' web site when the softball list was in existence

Letís get started. Subject - what weight bat to use. I have done lots and lots of scientific testing relating to hitting a softball. I have become a proponent of using light weight bats and hereís why:

Using myself as an example - I generate approximately 95MPH bat speed with my 26 ounce bat. I can generate just about the same 95MPH speed using a 29 ounce bat. You would logically think that I should use the 29 ounce bat, no question. I can swing it as fast and the added mass will allow me to hit the ball farther than with the 26 ounce bat. Logic in this case is dead wrong!

The important part of the equation that isnít considered in the above comparison is relative bat speed immediately after the ball has left the bat. In other words, how much of my initial 95MPH speed was I able to maintain while hitting through the ball. Here are the facts. I swing both at 95MPH just prior to hitting the ball. With the 26 ounce bat, my bat speed immediately after the ball is hit goes down to 56MPH! With the 29 ounce bat, my bat speed goes down to 49MPH! In other words, with the heavier bat, Iím swinging it fast but cannot push the bat through the ball and maintain as much speed as I can with the lighter bat.

Before we even take this subject much further I think it is crucial to stop and realize the incredible fact that I lose that much speed from hitting a 6.5 ounce ball. It simply amazes me. I have a pretty good follow through, I am extremely strong and have a decent swing ... and I lose all that speed when I hit the ball. I have tested lots of hitters; it is a constant. You lose a lot of speed when you hit the ball.

If you really think about it, what separates the true power hitters from the mere mortals is their ability to maintain bat speed. Compare my stats to that of a truly great player. Iíll reference Larry Carter, one of the most awesome distance and power hitters Iíve ever seen (and Iíve seen most all of them!) Larry weighs 260lbs+ and is in great physical condition with a vicious swing and scary strength. He can squat over 600lbs, bench 485lbs. and military press 275lbs. (easy)! You get the message. Larry is strong! He is dedicated and a great, great banger. Compare his bat speed to mine. Itís the same at 95MPH. Larry uses a 31 ounce bat ... I use a 26 ounce. So why does he hit the ball over 100 feet farther than I do? Simple ... his speed during contact with the ball.

Larry has the highest Ďafterí speed I have recorded. I finish at 56MPH, Larry finishes at 89MPH. In other words, Larry literally loses NO bat speed while powering through the ball. Larry shouldnít go down in weight! He isnít losing any speed with the 31 ounce ... thereís no need to go lighter. The question is can YOU? If you went with a lighter bat than you now use, would you pickup Ďfinishingí speed, and therefore distance? Try a friend's lighter bat and give it a fair chance. Take the time to know what works for you. Donít swing 5 times and say, no, not for me. Give it 100 swings. See if your follow through seems more efficient. Note what is happening with the ball.

What I am really trying to get across to you is crucial to hitting performance: you MUST have an efficient and complete follow through with your swing. You must think acceleration through the ball. Go right directly through the ball. Donít give up your swing the second you feel the ball hit the bat ... in fact, thatís when you have to swing hardest! And give some thought to your bat weight. Make sure you give yourself full chance to be as good as you can!

A swinging bat has just so much energy at the point of contact. DeMarini correctly taught how to increase batspeed in many respects, particularly relaxation. Batspeed is the only thing the ball knows. The faster the batspeed and the greater the mass of the bat, the more energy imparted to the ball. Assuming no more energy is imparted to batspeed by the hitter, the speed of the heavier bat will be slower after contact because more energy went into the ball. The ball is long gone before you feel the contact. The speed after contact is not relevant. The lighter bat may have given DeMarini more control for his topspin hitting, but it did not impart more energy to the ball.
Incidentally, batspeed after contact is notoriously impossible to measure with an actual hitter since it is impossible to know what contact was made- underspin, topspin or dead on. The more dead on the slower the batspeed. Choose what works best for you.



Sept. 13, 2012
southernson
260 posts
HJ,
Thanks for the digging, that's good info....
Sept. 13, 2012
Az Iz
36 posts
HJ
I believe you said it quite well.

The way I have learned it...

is which would you rather be hit by?

A fly hitting you at 15 MPH or a train hitting you at 15 MPH?



Sept. 14, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
HJ,that is exactly what demarini said,thanks for digging it up......so now how can you say bat speed after contact is not relevant....
Sept. 14, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
442 posts
Mad dog, the snide answer is science. The explanation is that the heavier bat at the same speed puts more energy into the ball (it goes farther) and since more energy goes into the ball, bat must slow up more. DeMarini just measured the obvious to a physicist. The key point is that batspeed after contact is not relevant. The ball leaves the bat in milliseconds. Remember the major league HR hit w/no hands on the bat. The batspeed after contact was virtually zero but the energy imparted to the ball carried for a major league HR.
I am not arguing that DeMarini was a better hitter with a 26 oz. bat. I am arguing that if in fact he could generate the same batspeed with a 29 oz. bat as a 26, then he would hit farther with the 29 oz. bat. But farther in softball is not always better. Bat control and consistency are more important and you actually hit the ball farther with the correct underspin because of aerodynamics- it acts like a wing and flies. A direct square hit doesn't go as far.
I love DeMarini, but he was just wrong here from what I have learned elsewhere. If anyone has an explanation why DeMarini is right of course I would try to understand that argument
and determine if I am wrong. I love being corrected when I am wrong. Seriously.
Sept. 14, 2012
kid 32
20 posts
About 28 grams!
Sept. 14, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
No one is going to generate the same bat speed with a heavier bat, assuming the same level of effort when swinging both. It is just physics.

Try accelerating your car with and without a loaded trailer hooked on the back. Guaranteed you will accelerate faster, given the same amount of pressurre on the gas pedal, with the lighter vehicle. Just makes sense.
Sept. 14, 2012
?
86 posts

If follow through makes no difference then why does Tiger Woods or any golfer end up with his golf club high over his shoulder when he is hitting the golf ball only several inches in front of his toes?
Sept. 14, 2012
0
56 posts
Gary19
That goes back to my original question.
Will that 1 oz make that big of a difference?
Sept. 14, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1003 posts
I have swung 30 to 26.. and my feeling is that the 30 maybe has a hair less bat speed but has a little more weight to make up for less bat speed... so it's a fine line, and at the end of the day it's just what you personally feel comfortable with.. I have always swung heavier because of better timing to the ball for me.. Always been a bit quick!

If you have a train hit a wall going 98mph and you had a car hit the same wall at 100mph what would do more damage?

I don't think you will find a big difference in bats.. it's the Wizard not the Wand!
Sept. 14, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
The train, and it wouldn't even be close. Not remotely close.
Sept. 14, 2012
Full Monty
79 posts
swing
That's a trick question.
If the train hit the wall a 98mph there would be no wall left for the car to hit... :-)
Sept. 14, 2012
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
399 posts
I loved Mickey1's answer...LOL
Sept. 15, 2012
spoonplugger
Men's 60
58 posts

mikey1

According to G19, Senior bats are
a weapon.

Are you allowed to carry one?
Sept. 15, 2012
Full Monty
79 posts
From what I can understand is the extra ounce will make little difference if the bat speeds are within 1 or 2 mph of each other.

That being said, I would think the lighter bat would be a better choice as a player will begin to fatigue when playing tournament play.
Sept. 15, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Pretty sure I never said that.

Guys, it isn't the bat it's the batter.
Sept. 15, 2012
HJ
Men's 70
442 posts
I am not knocking DeMarini and in fact agree with his conclusion about generally using lighter bats is better. However I must correct misinformation.
There is more to bat speed than just the weight of the bat. Depending on balance point and MOI you can swing some 30 oz. bats faster than you can swing a 26 oz.(using different models, not the same model) Personally with a radar gun I have experienced this. So, G19, a heavier bat does not always swing slower and yes, it is physics. Restated, a heavy bat with more weight near the handle will swing faster, but there will be less mass to hit with. Everything is a tradeoff and there is no one best bat for everyone.

Mario and Full Monty have it right. Theoretically the best way to buy a bat once you choose the model you want is to measure your batspeed using different weights of the same bat and pick the heaviest one before the batspeed decreases. But be aware of fatigue and not all swings are good swings. Several tests at different times in different orders would be
best. And yes this is way too complicated and not practical.
Sept. 15, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
HJ, fair enough. Without having made myself clear, my example was with everything else being equal. Such as weight distribution.
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