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Discussion: NSA Worlds.......

Posted Discussion
July 30, 2006
CAT
148 posts
NSA Worlds.......
Here is it....less than 1/2 after the NSA Worlds in Rock Hill, S.C. and I have already had two teams , that have friends of mine, to call me and complain. And these teams were not sour losers. Both teams finished first and second in their respective age divsions.. Here are their pros and cons.....Pros, the field complex was probably one of the nicest or nicest that they have played throughout the country. Now here on the cons. What was once to be a four day tourn. turned out to be a ONE day !! This does not fair well with senior players in conjunction with the heat. The tourn. brackets were set up incorrectly. Balls on the first day, were terrible. Many complaints on the tourn. dir. Mr. Jim Sutton. Our team opted not to go for the reason of him not returning our calls to inform us on the number of days it was to have been. We as a team, dearly wanted to go to defend our championships status. Now here is my opinion on the NSA senior circuit. Nothing against Mr. Sutton or the others, but I feel that the NSA organization has no concept about senior softball. When calling the National headquarters, they have no idea. Resolution: NSA either gets a National director for senior softball or stay out of it entirely. Sure, it may take a little money from their pockets to create a good quality senior program. However, it would pay for itself many times over. Alone, just by team entrys. I know they lost an entry by us and I think by a few others. Again, the entry fees are exorbent, so if you take the money then give the team and players their money's worth. Some senior organizations do...while other's do not..Sorry for the length...just "airing out" on behalf of myself and my friends who played their in the squelching heat....
July 30, 2006
tcadmw1
Men's 55
62 posts
NSA Tournament Comments Rock Hill, SC

I will be writing this story from the perspective of an observer while trying to keep my player perspective in check. I will admit up front that some of my player perspective may slip out now and again so for that just consider the source ok?

Some starting facts: There were 39 Teams Total in the Tournament as listed on the following NSA website: www.ncsoftball.com/2006_senior_ws.htm

I don't have the totals for past NSA tournaments which have been most recently held in Alabama but this seems to be a pretty small number of teams participating in this event. Of these teams we had the following mix:

1 - 50 division(s) there were three divisions Major+, Major, and AAA. In the 50 Major+ division there were four teams with basically one of those teams being classified as a 50 Major+ team. With the other teams being combinations of teams moved into the Major+ bracket just to fill out a 50 Major+ bracket from my player perspective. In the Major division there were 5 teams with one of them being a move up from the 55 Major division. In the AAA division there were 6 teams.

2 - 55 division(s) there was only one bracket which was composed of 5, 55 AAA teams. The only 55 Major+ entry was moved up into the 50 Major+ Division. Originally there were 6 AAA teams but one was reclassified to 55 Major and then moved up into the 50 Major Divsion. Which in my opinion was not appropriate since it was a double penalty to the team. 1st they were reclassified as 55 Major and then bumped up into the younger age group but stayed in the same division (major). More appropriate would have been to bump them to 50 AAA first and if they were to strong still then move them to 50 major.

3 - In the 60 division(s) there were three divsions Major+, Major, and AAA. With only two teams in the 60 Major+, five in Major, with one of those teams being a move up from the 65 Major division. And 5 teams in the AAA division.

4 - Only one 65 division AA with four teams.

5 - Only one 70 division Major with three teams.

I was at the Cherry Park complex and it was a very nice complex. The fields were in very good shape and the park was very well kept. It was easy to access and the games started on time which is a pet peeve of mine, so good job NSA on scheduling pool play. In general this complex was very good for this tournament. Now there were other fields used but I didn't see them so anyone who played at these other fields can reply to this posting and let us know their thoughts?

A couple of constructive comments I offer to help future events is:

1) Hot weather and small water containers make for lots of thirsty players waiting on water! Bigger water coolers would have helped!

2) Covered spectator areas would help fans and players who while they did have lots of seats they were to hot to sit on most of the time. Baked back sides may for sore butts....

3) Some fields had plastic fences setup which in my opinion are not safe for older players or any players really. They came upto the mid section and you could fall over or run through them to easy. Invest in chain link portables that are anchored well and at least eight feet high. Some old guys can still get up at least to dime high or slightly higher

As for the games I saw, there seemed to be lots of very close low scoring games. Much of which could be associated with the fact that some fields had wind blowing in and the bats of course were not U2's or they weren't suppose to be..... See article on Altered Bats to read more on this subject.

Some teams came with Miken Freaks which is allowed in ASA but not in NSA. Come on NSA. Freak+ but not Freak? Ooops, my player opinion slipped out again. Sorry! Anyway, you can sure tell the difference in teams when they can't swing the U2. I heard lots of complaining about the balls which were .44 core, 525 compression. While I admit they didn't exactly jump out of the park they did seem to fly as well as could be expected based on the bat standards and the wind conditions I played in. Of course some of us got the wind blowing out so we were special and others weren't so lucky. But even then the typical U2 310' shot was a 280' fly out this weekend. Result: You had to hit'em good to get'em!!!

I don't have final results yet so you can check them out on the NSA website when they are posted and if they are we'll attempt to link to them from here so check back for them later.

Now for a short but interesting drama that unfolded on Friday in the 50 Major+ division. Bare with me if you have already heard this one because good news travels fast but bad news travels even faster than these message board posts can.

The "Specialty Tank" team was disqualified after their first game in pool play on Friday afternoon. Seems someone (name not included here) brought up their concern that the teams roster was not legit according to NSA and/or Senior Softball 2006 adopted bordering states rules. And after a very very lengthy debate between tournament directors, sponsors, and team management the decision was that the team was removed from the tournament.

I have to many differing statements relating to what actually happened to be able to say with certainty what exactly was the problem but the last information relayed to me (me being one of the players on the Specialty Tank team) was that apparently while the team was registered as a Georgia team their either wasn't enough GA players on the roster or at the tournament to qualify the team as a GA team. Therefore, the majority of players in attendance were from FL and that some how translated into players on the roster not from states that boardered FL, with the exception of one player that could by NSA rules be from outside these borders in the Major+ division were not allowed on the roster. The total players who fell in this category (depending on who you ask) was three or four?

Calls were reportedly made to NSA President, Hugh Cantrell regarding the matter to which it was reported that he concured that this was a violation of rules as intended by NSA. Therefore the team disqualification from further participation in the tournament was final.

At least one or two of the teams in the division affected stated that they had not made any such allegation that would have lead to the investigation and disqualification. In fact they when asked stated that they didn't care about the technical interpretation, which to most of us was difficult to see, and these other teams like us only wanted to play softball as scheduled.

Disappointed we were as players after taking time off from work to travel to the tournament, disappointed our sponsors were after spending their money to pay for the tournament entry fees and team registration, disappointed our team management was after working so hard to put together a team and get the players to the event. Disappointed the other teams in this division were to now go from a already small four team bracket to a three team bracket. While a rule infraction may have occured and/or a mistake may have been made I think there could have been a better resolution to this issue that would have left a lot fewer people disappointed and would have resulted in a much more positive weekend for everyone including NSA officials.

I did not come up with this suggestion on my own because I ain't that smart so here is what was suggested as a possible alternative that could have been offered to everyone involved, including the other teams in the division instead of what was the final non-player/participant decision:

1) If indeed several players on the roster were outside the appropriate boarders then remove them from the roster and not allow them to participate in the tournament further.

2) If after removing these players from participation and the team still has enough eligible players on the roster to play then allow them to participate with the reduced roster as long as the other teams in the division agree to allow such.

Now I know some of you reading this may jump to the conclusion that "NO WAY" they cheated. Well let me say that from my player perspective I had no idea that the teams roster was a problem and based on team managements response to me I don't believe that they thought there was a problem with it either based on how they read the rules. And in fact team management had forwarded a roster to NSA officials in advance of the tournament (as required) with no follow-up from NSA officials stating there was any problem or potential roster problem. So lets just for a moment assume this was not a deliberate attempt to cheat anyone or create an unfair participation to the disadvantage of the other teams in the division. If so then why penalize everyone on the team or in the division?

While in the end none of this changes the fact that lots of senior softball was played on this past weekend and for all the teams who participated I would enjoy reading your thoughts related to how the tournament was for you and your team from either an observer or players perspective.

This information is also posted on the FSSA Message Board for upcoming newsletter publication.

Sincerely,
Mike Walker
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Mike Walker:
While this happened with specialty tank/worth on friday in SC, the NSA A worlds had a similar occurence the same weekend with a team called Jeane Shoppe who was found to have an illegal player as well in the middle of there 1st game. They were given a forfiet loss for that game, and allowed to continue on in the losers bracket without him and went on to win the event??? question is why were they allowed to continue while specialy tank/worth was not given the same options???
50 major plus team specialty tank/worth was removed from the event after 1 game completed.
NSA senior ball only allows players from states and bordering states and 1 exemption player. The state with the majority of players is your home state or the state your based out of and that is your point of origin in regards to the states and bordering states. specialty tank registered out of Georgia but had at the park more players from Florida then from Georgia.
NSA ruled that the home state was Florida not Georgia and that made some other players illegal whose state touch Georgia but did not touch Florida.
A stupid rule and one that needs to be changed for sure but a rule that was enforced by what NSA rules say.
Question here is HOW did jeane shoppe get away with doing the same thing with an illegal player and continue on in the tournament at all??????
specialty tank/worth might have a case of discrimination now against NSA.
Based on that all the teams at the NSA A world have a case against NSA as well.
Question is why Jeane shoppe got special treatment while this 50 year old team got hosed. The 1 game that they played was only a seeding or pool game which did not even count in the standings. They should have been given the chance to see if they could have eliminated some players to end up with a legal roster and then be allowed to continue in the tournament.
IMO
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports 50 Major Plus
July 31, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2586 posts
Mike Walker, I think that I can add a few facts here. First, our game started with a 44/375 Baden ball. Then, after it was hit out we went to the Super Gold Dot 44/525. My friends that played 50 AAA and 55 AAA used the 44/375 in all games, or that is what I was told.
As for our roster, our manager said he faxed the roster in but it was never found at the field Friday morning. He said that it contained enough Georgia players to make us a Georgia team. Does it matter that four of these players would not be there? Or, should the roster list players that will be at the tournament? I don't know that answer. Anyway, we had to make up another roster Friday morning when the faxed copy couldn't be found. Only the names of players present were included on this roster. This roster made us a Florida team.
Congratulations to Conn. Sportsplex and Southern Softball for their respecitve championships.
July 31, 2006
hitman#2
4 posts
I thought the facility at Cherry Park was good. For a national tournament there were too few teams. I heard last year they had it in Cullman AL, was the turnout better there? As far as the border rule for selecting players, I feel it is fair. Florida borders two other states, that should be sufficient to field a team. If you let unlimited recruiting to occur then the sponsor with the most money (i.e. Steinbrenner) will bring in the best players from all over. And if that is the case then have a seperate unlimited recruital division! And somebody said that they had handed in rosters earlier, then why wasn't this caught and brought up to the Tank team prior to them travelling to Rock HIl. I'm sure they could have registered as a FL team and had enough just from FL and it s bordering states. Something is not right.
July 31, 2006
CAT
148 posts
To Gary 19. All fhe senior organizations NEED to get onto the same page and quit trying to compete with one another by rule adjustments and tourn. scheduling. I think that what Mike is trying to say and it IS a stupid rule in that: you have a set roster of players that play together throughout the entire year and then the NSA says that same team cannot participate in their tourn. If the NSA would cross reference with the "Big Three" on rosters, then they would not have to have that majority state rule. The NSA just does not get it for senior softball nor do they want to try. I have been an avid supporter for years of the NSA but I am now starting to lose interest in their senior programs...They either need to .... or get off the pot. Yea, as I have said before, if they want to actively get involved in senior softball, they need to let loose of some of their monies and get someone in their organization that understands us ole guys. All that we want to do is play ball with our buddies.....
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Gary19 asked mk39 Mike Kelly, just a quick question. Why is that a "stupid rule"?

Hi Gary19 and thanks for asking this question.

ANY state with water to there backs will not recive the same amount of states to draw from compared to states surrounded by landmass.

using the ssusa chart from there magazine shows that a state like colorado can draw from up to 7 to 8 states while a state like ca. or fl can only draw from 3 to 4.

That my friend is unfair not to mention not well thought out to begin with..

i have mentioned this before to let the states with water to there backs to be allowed to move in 1 state and make that state the home state so that they could be surrounded by landmass but have gotten no where at all with this.

when i built this years team i had to let guys from ca. go who have played with me the last 2 years because of this very thing.

i have based this years team with majority of players from nevada to stretch my search for players who can help us at the major plus level.

too many rules and i have said all along to make less restrictions for the major plus division and let us play ball.

Thanks again for asking

mike kelly
kelly's sports/worth 50 major plus

July 31, 2006
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
While I agree that the feilds and locations of feilds in relatations to hotels and places to eat were the best I have been to this year.
Having friends on the ST team that was disqualified, I think they got hosed. If NSA had their original roster that had been sent the roster had enough players that made the ST team legal, having to make one out the morning of the first game who thinks of putting any players that didn't show up on the roster. Also stating what MK stated, Florida is at a big disadvantage having only a couple stated to draw from. Specialty Tanks got the shaft.
We, Kayson's Grill AAA 50, protested an Major Plus player playing at the AAA level, they just didn't play him for our game and let the team finish the tournament.
Double standards????
While we finished third and left before the winners played, we played some great teams and congrats on who won the AAA 50 bracket.
Our umpiring on our winners bracket final game was horrible, the feilding ump even stated he wondered why he was calling a championship game. After a few bad calls the game before we knew he was not the best. But we tryed to play around it. 4 really bad calls in the winner bracket game cost us dearly, But our fault for letting the ump be in position to cause us win or lose the game.
But when a 6 foot 4" man takes out a 5 foot 8" man at third base and the ump says he don't have to slide, I think was not really in the sportmanship of our senior softball.
But the call on a ball that was truly a foot foul, being called fair really ended the game for us. Even with the other team shaking their heads but taking the call, I can't blame them for that.
Feilds were great except for a few soft spots here and there.
Mike Walker, the other complex feilds were almost as good as the Cherry Park feilds. Altho I heard a ump say that the Winners Bracket game should have not been played on the worse feild the tournament had, it was still better than some we have all played in.
Balls were horrible, 375 in one game, 525 in the next and then back to 375. Our last game coming out of the losers bracket didn't last long but the ball that was being used was flying. The other team stated that this was the best ball thay had seen all weekend and hit it hard and far.
Congrats on all the winners from this tournament.

Charles Pope
Kayson's Grill
50 AAA
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
gary19 in response to mk39 saying Mike, there are always going to be inequalities no matter how you do it.

Not at all.

If you want to make new rules that none of us ever played with in adult ball then make it the same for all.

The only way rules can work is when they are the same rule for all involved.

dont tell me that i can only draw from 3 states while the other guy can draw from 7.

what you also did not take into consideration is that ca. now produces 4 teams in the 50 major plus division so while we started with the most high level players there is way less left to choose from in the end.

ya know what i mean

thanks
mike kelly
kelly's sports/worth 50 major plus
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Gary19

You simply dont get it and i have tried the best i can to explain it to you in your first year of senior softball compared to my 5th year in senior softball but i guess you know best.
it is about being treated the same. desrimination starts with one person being treated differently then another person.
i have fought the tough fight to get ca. and fl. open to begin with and there are still other obstacles in the way that is making it difficult for us teams to deal with at the ball park.
unlike you i do feel sympathy for the specialty tank/worth team who got hosed this past weekend and if i was there i would have went out of my play to make sure they got a chance to compete.
have a nice day
mike kelly
kelly's sports/worth 50 major plus
July 31, 2006
CAT
148 posts
Guys; thank you for you inputs. From what I am reading, so far, is that the fields and hospitality were good and the balls; the way the tourn. was conducted; and the umpiring was NOT good. This needs to be served up to the NSA. I still appreciate all futher comments and if no one else will, then somewhere down the line, I will try to contact our state director and Hugh Cantrell of the NSA and let him read these comments. IF the efforts were put forth by the citty of Rock Hill to appease the senior softball guests, then they should not get the blunt of it with future tournaments because of the incompetency of the tourn. directors. Agree??
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
gary19

it is not just about you and i.

it is about ALL involved.

Tennesee gets 10 states to choose from and in the heart of big time ball = the south.

the state of washington gets 2 states to pick from.

don't you see that this is not quite right???

please look at a map of the us to get the whole picture.

thanks

Mike Kelly
kelly's sports/worth 50 major plus
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
CAT
I do agree with you and hope that NSA will consult with players and team managers in the future on what might make for a better event by going to those who know there own needs bette rhen anyone else.
have a good one.
mike kelly
kelly's sports/worth 50 major plus
July 31, 2006
surf88
Men's 60
845 posts
Mike, I'm one of the Colorado based players that you touched upon in your email. Unlike Florida and California, I have to travel over 7 hours to get to the cities/towns that our teams are based in. Colorado has 2 50's teams, 2 55's teams and a 60's team. There are no teams west of Denver. Utah has 1 50's team, etc etc.

Frankly, you have it a lot better than you think. What do you think the population of senior players might be in Florida and California? When I travel to Florida and to California, it sure seems like a mecca for ball players.

Hopefully you will get things worked out to your satisfaction. How about perhaps working on getting a landlocked ball player the ability to play on teams from beyond an adjoining state. That is the problem I face.

Surf888
July 31, 2006
rabbit
Men's 65
294 posts
Hi Charlie Pope, who were the teams in the finals? how did the seeding agmes go, we decided ( Indiana Classics) about 2 weeks before the tourney do drop out, I did not like what i was seeing from the director, he never had a answer , we also had some injured players and we decided to save it for Plano, were I knew it would be a better ran tourney. besides we have already played the Jags 4 times, OG's at least 3 times and Dayton Legends once, played your team last year a couple of times if I remember right, A coupl;e of the teams that were entered were not even rated, the team from NC and one from Alabama, how good of teams were they, the rest I know, are you guys going to Planon next week?? if so, I wil lsee you there, and look out for the Coors Light team out of Ill. they are one of the teams to beat among a couple of others. Rabbit, caoch of Indiana Classics

ps- we had played in the NSA Worlds the last 3 years, hope they move it back to Alabama next year, it had more teams there.r
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
gary19

Bingo and that is 1 of the possible soloutions.

While these senior softball people talk about how many senior players are in ca. and fl. they can never tell you how many are of major plus caliber becuase they honestly have no idea at all. do you?????

There are way less major plus players in the us compared to any other division.

there are 10 to 1 more major players then major plus players

30 to 1 more AAA players
50 to 1 more AA players

compared to major plus players

so mine is a simple question

why restrict us at all when the supply of players is so small to begin with

open it up and there would be more teams to play agaisnt and no body would ever have to forfiet becuase they had a player living in the wrong state???

thanks
mike kelly
kellys sports/worth 50 major plus
July 31, 2006
surf88
Men's 60
845 posts
Charlie Pope,

Hope all is well. Are you guys coming out to Seattle for the Worlds? If so, let me hear from you. Look forward to seeing you in the fall if not before.
Ed Andrews
July 31, 2006
Lecak
Men's 55
1004 posts
There are plenty of players not enough sponsors. If I was the Specialty Tank sponsor I would be livid. I live in Vegas there are no 50 teams that I know of based solely out of here. Occasionally I run into players that live here over 50 in league, tournaments, etc. I can almost guarentee if I was to get one of the big Casino's to sponsor a 50 team I could field a Major plus team even without the guys currently on other teams rosters in CA and elsewhere. Too few sponsors chasing the top guys, more sponsors you would have it spread out. Let's not chase out the few remaining sponsors by punishing teams who made a mistake and the others teams who came to play the best.
July 31, 2006
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
To answer a couple questions:

Rosters, thats a tough subject:
I seen full rosters sent in to tournament directors because most teams carry 16 to 20 players for injurys and players that can make weekends and maybe not the round robin games. This is also tough because some teams play round robin/seeding games with players and then the double elem games with players that didn't show up for the round robin games. Sand bagging?? Maybe, but you need a full roster because things do happen and some players can't make some games and other have thing come up and can't come to the tournament at all.
My good friends on the 60 Major team Suncoast Sunrays had 4 players that could not make the tournament at the last minute, They played with 11 players, hard on any team, much less a 60 team playing in the heat we all played in.
If you don't list these players from the start you can't add them later.
Rabbit:
We played the Jags, great team, beat them in th4e seeding round and lost a heart breaker in the last game of the winners bracket. Thay had 2 new players but they were always on the roster, that's the way the game is player.
Hackers was the team that finished us off, sorry don't remember where they were from but they had a very good team, don't know why they ever made it to the loser bracker to start with.
Mike Kelly:
I agree, Major Plus players are a rare breed, they are at the top of the game and strive to do so. I always felt their should be NO restrictions on where, how, who they played. Should be NO limits on what they do and what they play with. Want to play Major Plus, bring your Major Plus Game.
Lots of us AAA and AA players and to keep the elite from playing down there must be restrictions.

We all strive to be as good as we an be. We should be delighted we can still play this game we all love to play.
JMHO

Charlie Pope
cpope3@tampabay.rr.com
Kayson Grill 50 AAA
Suncoast Sunrays 60 Major
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
cpope

you know this becuase you have been there and done that and felt how hard it is for major plus teams to exist and survife giving all the restrictions placed upon them.

Gary19 this is expierence talking here from charlie pope.

The majoe plus division in order to grow needs less restrictions then all the rest because there are way less of us to begin with.

thanks charlie pope

mike kelly
kelly's sports/worth 50 major plus

July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Lecak

Being a sponsor of a major plus team is both quite expensive and a lot of hard work. there are some great teams out there that we play agaisnt and look forward to each and every game with them. if there was more sponsors then yes there would be more teams otherwise individuals with leadership normally step up and build a team from local talent. it has to worth my investment to continue on in senior softball and 2 to 4 teams events really is not worth it so i am trying to come up ideas to build the divison into more teams. i am not trying to belittle ot insult anyone and i am only speaking for the growth of the major plus division.

saddest thing is that there are some major plus players with no one to play with. if there was no restrictions on them then they could find a team and or form a team simply by putting it on this message board.

i have seen plenty of players including major plus get picked up off of this board but only by teams in there region.

how about a team for the east coast needing a major plus player and a guy from vegas getting the call right from this board.

how about an east coast major plus player needing a team and gets picked up by a west coast team right off of this board.

this could be the major plus unemployment board if the regions was open and then we would have more teams to play agaisnt and that is the bottom line.

thanks
mike kelly
kelly's sports/worth 50 major plus
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
gary19

yes this is about me and the entire major plus division in which i have invested 5 years now and a division that has grown in the past year because of less restrictions being implemented this year compared to past years..

thanks

mike kelly

kelly's sports/worth 50 major plus
July 31, 2006
CAT
148 posts
Rabbit;
Sounds like you made the right decision of not going and you took the words right from my mouth. Unless money grows on trees(which it doe not for us) why go to a tourn. that has the same teams you have played before. Sure it is nice to win but also nice to meet new fellows. We did the same as your team. Just set back, heeled or licked our wounds and going to where there are more teams and better run tourns. I got the same response as you did with the tourn. dirs. in the NSA. First your friend Nancy thought that I was blowin smoke and hopefully now she can see where there IS a problem with the NSA. Sorry that my team did not give you a better game in Ill. but I hope that we can, if we see ya in Plano. We were the walking wounded. As for the Major + teams.........let them go and play wide open softball!! Some of these guys have big egoes but most have bigger hearts who just love the game and the competition. IT is not like they do not put the hours into working out and practicing their skills. At least the organizations should give it an "opem" try for a 1-2 year period. And If they have to play down in qualifiers, I have found that HR differentials and/or run differentials just about even matters out. Let's shape up these TD and play ball!!!! Summer is almost over boys...another season under our belt and a year older next year : (
July 31, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2586 posts
Having played AAA, Major and Major Plus I have seen both sides of the argument. Each has its merits.

Cat, I beg to differ with you on your statement:
"And If they have to play down in qualifiers, I have found that HR differentials and/or run differentials just about even matters out."
Here in the southeast we were denied the opportunity to play in the SPA tournaments in Pensacola and Marietta. We were told that the AAA and Major team would drop out if we were allowed to play. I understand their concerns and this needs to addressed by the associations.
Which brings to mind, if an "impact player" can't play on a AAA team for safety reasons, why can they play against a AAA team in pool play in a qualifier????
July 31, 2006
mad dog
Men's 60
3922 posts
gary19 your quote"Bruce, JMO but I think it should be based on the TOURNAMENT roster. Otherwise what stops a team from just listing guys who, for all the TD knows, never play for the team but using them helps make a team legit for a particular state?"
now here is the problem with your statement.first we have to send in our rosters,then we have to check in at the tourney(so td's can verify rosters),at which time we can add only certain eligble players(if needed).most of the time they have to be from an age div older than the team wanting to add.so its not as simple as your brain is.

mk i'm with you as being able to open up the M+ div.hell they prolly only have 20 total between all ages.
July 31, 2006
tcadmw1
Men's 55
62 posts
Did anyone at the NSA tournament see any bats that looked like they might be Altered? If so did anyone say anything to the TD about it? What did they do then? Last year in AL lots of us saw and suspected a team of using a painted U2 and when the TD was told about it he said no it looked ok to him. Just curious since I didn't get to stick around long enough to observe many games.... haha

Mike Walker
July 31, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
mad dog

Thanks for the support and your sure right about the overall lack of 50 major plus teams
but
it can all change if organazations like NSA and ASA follow the USSSA lead and get away from these other senior softball organazations who are involved in this senior summitt and follow there own patterns that they have used in adult ball and let it carry over into senior ball.
That would mean no residency requiremenys at all.

USSSA is right there now and this coming weekend would have had a great draw if they had not been blindsided by ruth and hennesey putting the ISA on the USSSA established weekend. Sounds like a cutthoart move to me that is not good for senior softball at all. All this sleaze move by them accomplished was sending some teams to mo. and making it even worse for us.
thanks ruth and hennesey.
ps i see ruth actually had to send his 60 team to salem for the usssa , why is that ?? because the other 60 teams knew right from wrong and decided to go to the usssa whos event has been the same weekend for the last 7 years and they decided not to go to the ISA in mo.
I ask once again how this was good for senior softball????
there are 3 open weekends in august and they picked this established weekend?? Small wonder USSSA droped out of the senior summitt group.
mike kelly
kelly's sports/worth 50 major plus
July 31, 2006
Jags
Men's 50
8 posts
To all teams that paticipated in the 50 AAA World Series; "hats off to you"
The competiveness is what that tournament exciting. The Detroit JAGS have nothing but the utmost respect for the quality of play that was exhibited for the character, the right spirit, and fellowship from both teams and their fans.
I was truly AWESOME......

In essence, there were no losers in this tournamnet. We would be willing to go to battle with any of these teams anytime, anywhere.


Thanks
To the Hackers, Kayson's Grill, The Triangle Cobras, Dayton Legends, and the OG's, We love you all, and hope to play you in future tournaments.


P.S. Rabbit, you don't know what you missed!!!!!

JAGS
July 31, 2006
Jags
Men's 50
8 posts
Sorry,,, the NSA Tournament, Rock Hill, SC.

It was truly AWESOME, not I was truly AWESOME.


JAGS
Aug. 1, 2006
SAG
83 posts
Jags,

That last game we played against you guys was one of the most intense games I've been involved in for a long time.
I don't know what else could have happened in that game that did not happen except us winnng, great defense, poor defense, great hitting, bad calls, great come back aided by some very poor defense and great clutch hitting by you guys. I'm really glad you guys won it.
The Hackers team I feel was really a major team playing down. The game they played against us in the finals of the losers bracket was an awsome display of hitting on their part. They did not have an easy out in that game. Our outfielders were diving to catch sinnking line drives, going to the fence and gaps all game long. They hit bullets the whole 4 innings while they were blowing us out. If they are an ligit AAA team then there are very few teams that can beat them. We did call them on the Major Plus player that was playing with them (according to the guys on our team he is one of the nicest guys playing the game but he was a major+ player so we called them on it). He was kept out of that game. I guess we pissed them off.
Aug. 1, 2006
SAG
83 posts
Jags forgot to mention that the last post was from Kaysons Grille #19.
Aug. 1, 2006
rabbit
Men's 65
294 posts
Hi Jags, sounds like you had a real good tourney, we will see you in Dallas, as, we always have a good game when we play each other, the 4 times we have played each other this year , 3 games were by one run and the other by 5, As far as the Hackers, when ever you have a team that is not rated and paid $400.00 to play, you know they have a very good team, they would not be spending the money if they didnt, as usual teams that do that are uasually sand bagging team as history will dictate.That was another reason why i didnt come to Rock Hill, When we get to Dallas, we have to deal with the Metro/ Coors Lite team again as you had to in Champaign,they are another team close to being a major team if not already.
see you there, looks like it will be in the high 90's all week next week ,
Rabbit
Aug. 1, 2006
CAT
148 posts
Good competition makes better players....therefore, makes better teams. I am glad to see that the Jags won the NSA event without their so-called "SuperStar"....At least that is what he called himself. There a few players that I hate to release because of their talent, but if they do not have the Christian fellowhship and friendships that go with their talent, then it is my pleasure to release a person of that nature. Good luck to the Jags with their new super hero and congrats on a great tourn. I heard nothing but good regarding you class act team. Keep up the good work in the Black Nationals down in Cincy town.
Aug. 1, 2006
RedEye
Men's 55
92 posts
Congrads to the Jaguars on them Winning the 50AAA.
Good Luck Rest of the year.
Aug. 1, 2006
Bread
11 posts
CPope
We played and beat the hackers in all three games. They were all wars.
Great team....same as you guys !!!!
But Charlie you can not stand in the base path of a runner or you are awarded the base anyways. If he would have been on the bag then by all means you are correct.
Could have been a hell of a crash if the JAG player had not eased up.
Have Great respect for you and your team.
Come on that had to be one of best games you have played in ??????
Thanks to all the players. Your all class acts.
CJ
Aug. 1, 2006
Bread
11 posts
JAGS
Hey C you know the first posting was what you really wanted to say.
Just call him Awesome !!!!!!
Aug. 1, 2006
SAG
83 posts
Bread,

I'm #19 on Kaysons and I agree with you on the play at third. The third baseman even said after the game he was trying to deek the runner that the ball was not coming to the base and was standing about three feet in front of the bag in the baseline. He said he should hve been on the side or at the bag. When the ball got there so did the runner and since the third baseman was 160 and the runner over 200 he went flying. The runner may have been able to slide but the third baseman had no business in the baseline. I doubt I would have run him over. But who knows
Great game hats off to you guys.
Aug. 1, 2006
Bread
11 posts
Sag,
Was good talking to you at the dug out. Hope your hand heals well.
We don`t want anyone hurt having fun playing.
Hows your pitchers foot?
CJ
Aug. 2, 2006
SAG
83 posts
Bread,

We are going to have to make some adjustments in Plano. Our pitcher has a jammed thumb from a play on Friday and his foot is black and blue and swelled up twice the size of his other foot from the line drive. Our left fielder will be back (he missed Rock Hill) but we lose our left center fielder for Plano. We have been struggling all year to field the same team in a tournament. We lost me (outfield) and our starting third baseman clean-up hitter before the season started then our left fielder and first baseman went down. Been patching positions every tournament we play in. We have picked up several key players that did not play with us last year though and hope to keep them next year.

How are your two guys? The left fielder and the other fielder (smaller white guy) that could not play against us.
I heard you guys were not going to Plano. How did you guys do against the Coors team this year?
Aug. 2, 2006
Bread
11 posts
Sag
Calf strain on the wof and a thigh pull on the other.
Tough playing without your 2 starters.
Coors beat us twice in ill. Have not played them with our full team yet, but they are very good.Should be the team to beat.
Aug. 2, 2006
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
bread
I didn't hear the 3rd baseman say he was in front of the bag when he got hit. If he was then ofcourse you are right.
When it happen so quick only the runner and the 3rd baseman knows for sure.. But when ask the ump about sliding he didn't day anything about the 3rd baseman being in front of the bag, he only said the runner didn't have to slide and didn't run him over on purpose.
We know 99% of the time nobody will run over anyone on purpose but such as an intense of a game as it was nobody will ever know for sure.
You are correct, it was one of the best "Senior" games I have ever played in. Being 60 I have played in a few.
I as well as all our team, Kaysons Grill were very happy that you won. Congrats.
It was hard to play right after our game with you, all our adrenalin was left on that feild and we carried nothing over to the next game. Hope all your injurys heal and WE really want to play you again.
Aug. 2, 2006
Bread
11 posts
cpope
Your one hell of a ball player, 60 is hard to beleive!!!!
Hope you guys do well in Plano.
CJ
Aug. 2, 2006
Bread
11 posts
Sorry .....Believe
Yeah cpope you owe us one!
Aug. 2, 2006
monty25
Men's 55
96 posts
sorry to hear about specialty tank's situation ,maybe these org. will start working together to make senior softball a great thing.
Aug. 2, 2006
smooth01
Men's 50
120 posts
I may be wrong ,but if Mike Kelly base's his team out of Nevada, wouldn't he be able to draw from Oregon, Idaho,Utah, Arizona, Nevada,and also Calif. as it borders Nevada? And if this is legal, why couldn't Florida teams base out of Georgia, and draw from Tenn, North Carolina,South Carolina, Ala, Georgia and Florida. To get around the Calif and Flor. restriction, just BASE your team from another state, like old honest Mike did in Nevada earlier this year Don't you feel you could put a Major Plus team together with these states to draw from? That is what everyone else is expected to do,
Aug. 2, 2006
Lecak
Men's 55
1004 posts
Smooth01 I have nothing to do with the Kelly team but I do know that he has alot of players from Nevada specifically Vegas. Matter of fact I see a number of them in league, local D tournaments etc. Here is a complete outsider verifying his roster. Since major plus players aren't plentiful and his roster has the correct compliment of Nevada players sounds smart.
Aug. 2, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
smooth01
Your right and i did base my team out of Nevada this year so that i would have a bigger area to draw from. I am not sure if you knew that it is not just saying that i am based from Nevada but my team has to have the majority of players also come from Nevada before it is a legal roster. This means i had to let some players from California go that i would have rather kept on the team as well.
If they would just say to pick a state and start the process from there it would have worked for the specialty tank team that was forced out of the NSA event last weekend for not having the majority of players from Ga. and being forced to then be based out of Florida which left them without enough legal and out of the event.
These rules are not needed for major plus in my opinion but i will abide by them until they are changed.
thanks
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports/Worth
Aug. 2, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
STATE POPULATIONS:
59.6M PEOPLE or 21.1% of the U.S. POPULATION are 55 & OLDER. 33M are FEMALES & 26.6 M are MALES (MALES make up 45%).
Cal- 34m & 3 board' states w/ 10.5 m to draw from.
Tex- 21m & 4 board' states w/ 14.5m to draw from.
NY- 19m & 6 board' states w/ 32m.... ( 4.8 mil p' males)
Fla- 16m & 2 states w/ 12.5m.... (2.7 mil possible males)
Ill- 12.5m & 5 b' states W/ 24m
Penn- 12.3m & 6 states w/ 45.5m
Oh-11.3m & 5 b' states w/ 35m.... (4.4 mil possible males)
Mich- 10m & 4 b' states w/ 27m.... (3.5 mil possible males)
NJ- 8.4m & 3 b' states w/ 32m
Ga- 8.1m & 5 b' states w/ 38m.... (4.4 mil possible males)
N. C.- 8m & 4 b' states w/ 28m
Vir- 7m & 5 b' states w/ 25m..... (3 mil possible males)
Mass- 6.3m & 5 states w /25m
Ind- 6m & 4 states w/ 37.7m.... (4.1 mil possible males)
Tenn- 5.7m & 8 states w/ 44.5m... (4.7mil possible males)
Mo- 5.6m & 8 states w/ 35.4m
Ariz- 5.1m & 5 states w/ 44.3m (less Calif's 34m)
Co- 4.3m & 7 states w/ 17.4m..... (2mil possible males)
S. D.- 0.7m & 6 states w/ 11.5m
AK- 0.6m & no board' states.... ( 56,000 possible males)
N. D. - 0.6m & 3 states w/ 6m... (600,000 possible males)

NEVADA- 2.4 M & 5 boarding states. 47.4 m ...(Which will give Nv next year the possible 4.5 millon SENIOR MALES.
Hopefully, everone realizes that not all men play ball.)
WELL? Is there any real questions about fairness? Large populations to small? 8 states to no staes to draw from? Northen States in cold areas to warm States?
INFO from U S Census, 2000..
STONEMAN.............OUT

Aug. 3, 2006
hitman#2
4 posts
Stoneman, Obviously someone has way too much free time to look up and print these stats......
Aug. 3, 2006
PattyMac
95 posts
MK,

Just for a point of info. The tournament director did not give us the option to play with Florida, Georgia players with 1 exception player. We had enough there to field a team last weekend.

We were not given that option or I assure you we would have played.

Our only mistake was that our whole roster was not received by the director or so he says. Our faxed roster had all of our players on it. The roster we filled out at the tournament was signed by the players we had there. We assumed the director had our faxed copy.

Anyway an expensive and long weekend to play one game.

That is the real story.

PattyMac
Aug. 3, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
STONEMAN
First off, good to hear from you again.
This is the kind of stat that hennesey and the boys have fed to senior softball all along as the reason to close borders and to descriminate against certain states.
I have some big problems with these stats.
1. of all those gazillions of adult senior male men, how many are slowpitch softball players.
2. how many are of major plus caliber which again is all i am talking about here.
California right now has 3 50 major plus teams. I have mine from Nevava and the oregon masters out of oregon. This region of bordering states to ca. has produced 5 teams in the 50 major plus division by itself. Seeing how there are only really 10 teams in the 50 major plus divsion, that means we have already supplied half of the divison from this 3 state area. That means that the entire rest of the US only produced the other 5 teams combined.
There are a lot of players of major plus caliber who need teams to play on but cant becuase of border requirements and it is killing the programs ability to grow. Go to open regions and the major plus program would prosper.
Hey we go to the USSSA this weekend , wish us luck
Mike Kelly
]Kelly's Sports/Worth 50 Major plus
Aug. 3, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
PattyMac
How ya doing, you big time home run hitter you.
Been to long since i last saw ya. Wish you guys were coming to the usssa this weekend. open regions, bring who you can or want and no problems.
NSA and all other supporting majority of players is making a huge mistake. it means that on the field you always have to have the majority from the state you claim or else this could happen. i understand that terrell and some other guys from ga. could not make it for that event, 4 guys from ga. is what i heard and it lreaves you in a bad place under the majority rules. Most people have having a hard time understanding how hard it is to treplace a major plus player like terrell with another major plus players at the last moment and with border restirctions.
What do you do when players cant make it and it puts you in jepordy.
1. pick up anyone who can go regardless if they can play or not just to fill out the roster??
2. take a chance and just go with what is left of the team??
it could have been avoided by just letting you play with enough florida and ga. players and your 1 exemption. Looks like NSA really blew it by not letting you. sorry for your lost weekend and you deserved better. looks like there own rules confused them.
are you guys going to vegas late sept. looking forward to seeing you again.
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports/Worth 50 major plus
Aug. 3, 2006
RedEye
Men's 55
92 posts
MK39.......37 are listed as M+ teams but only about 15-20 are active if that & they rest don't really play anymore.
I am in agreement with you let the M+ teams draw from anywhere as long as they are only on one roster for the year. No going from team to team & every Assoc. to honor these roster's. The teams can police them selves.
Just let them play in this Upper Division, but on the same note don't let them drop down & play AAA or AA.
Good Luck the rest of the year.

Al Estes Bail Bonds Pinellas Park FL Major-Plus Nov. 1, 2004
BRL/Academy Sports Salt Lake City UT Major-Plus Oct. 18, 2004
C.C. Red/JC Painting of Park Ridge Chicago IL Major-Plus Nov. 2, 2005
California Thunder Salida CA Major-Plus Oct. 4, 2005
Campbell Tire/ Bone-Dry Roofing Indianapolis IN Major-Plus Sept. 14, 2004
Crush Softball Boca Raton FL Major-Plus June 17, 2005
Direct Hire Trafalgar IN Major-Plus Nov. 1, 2004
Doc's Greyhounds MN Major-Plus Sept. 16, 2005
Extra Inning Softball Richmond VA Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Hollis Appraisal Jacksonville FL Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Indiana Legends / Dixon Softball Indianapolis IN Major-Plus July 14, 2004
JAH Masters Atlanta GA Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Joe D's & Dominck OH Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Kelly Sports Vacaville CA Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Korba/Miken MN Major-Plus Jan. 23, 2006
Las Vegas Stars Las Vegas NV Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Miken/Old South/Lill Woodstock GA Major-Plus May 20, 2005
Mizuno New Jersey Stockton NJ Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Mt. Clemens Seniors MI Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Murphy's Law Springfield VA Major-Plus Jan. 23, 2006
Norelco NY Statesmen Long Island NY Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Northwest Masters (OR Masters/DOA) Hillsboro OR Major-Plus May 23, 2006
Old A's Team First Palo Cedro CA Major-Plus May 23, 2006
Pilcher's Ultimate 50's(Sonny's Colorado Rockies) Highlands Ranch CO Major-Plus May 10, 2005
Pine Knob Mt. Clemens MI Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Ploog Construction MN Major-Plus Nov. 1, 2004
Randy Smith Lafayette LA Major-Plus June 17, 2005
RC Aluminum FL Major-Plus July 14, 2004
S. Florida Blitz FL Major-Plus Oct. 4, 2005
Schones Chiropractic Galloway OH Major-Plus Jan. 23, 2006
Seacrest Mavericks Huntington Beach CA Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Solid Gold Fairfax VA Major-Plus May 20, 2005
Specialty Tank/Worth (Florida Fins) Boca Raton FL Major-Plus April 17, 2006
Stafford Sales Cincinnati OH Major-Plus July 14, 2004
Sutton Lawn Care (Motown Stars) Detroit MI Major-Plus June 14, 2006
Team Miken / Supreme Sportswear / Korba Insurance Little Canada MN Major-Plus Jan. 21, 2006
Aug. 3, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
RedEye
Of the 15-20 that are active some of those are 55 major plus now.
Couple more of them dont really want to be major plus and dont show up at all.
weed it all out and you are down to about 10 partisipating 50 major plus teams and we never seem to get together for the same events.
You do bring up a great point though as to how many out of place major plus players there really is, either playing on major teams or not playing at all. The real major plus teams are those who volunteer to be in the major plus divsion, not those who are forced into it.
I dont have all the answers to what to do here but i know that less restrictions would be better.
thanks
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports/Worth 50 major plus
Aug. 3, 2006
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
NSa finally said they was wrong after the Tank team had left the Park. This is what was on the Old Scout Board, Thanks to the NSA they broke up a good Team
It was an NSA
Posted by sam on August 2, 2006, 11:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Us 50 year olds can outhit your sorry aZZ any day.... I don't even need roids.."
209.214.141.93

screwup, which they admitted after the damage was done, sad though but the decision was probably made over breakfast at Denny's which would explain the snail like pace on how this was handled.


Aug. 3, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
jah#4

Are you saying that this incident has caused your 50 major plus team to disban??

I sure hope not as i was sure looking forward to the competition between our 2 teams.

say it ain't so.

Hennesey and Hooks, please pay attention here to the damage caused by too many uneeded rules.

sorry to hear it Don.

Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports/Worth 50 major plus
Aug. 3, 2006
CAT
148 posts
JAH #4 - Thanks to you and the other's fpr your responses. I think that from all of these replies you can see my reassoning for my initial message. Again, I saw the ineptness of the TD way prior to the tourn. We hated not to be there, but anymore, I refuse to use our good money for a bad cause. What is NSA going to do now?? Are they going to reimburse your money? Probably not. They just might try to give you a free entry for next year. Big deal. I knew this and more about the way that the tourn. was going to be run and it feel among many of deaf ears. As I had mentioned before, in another message; We the players need to created a tourn. evaluatiion and make ALL aware of these matters, both good and bad. My suggestion to all of the other teams our there - until the NSA cleans up their act....stay away from their World tourn. They will then get the point. Thus the creation of the LVSSA. We decided to save our hard earned money and go there instead of the NSA...Looks more to have been a good decision on our part. Can I get some comment about the LVSSA worlds?? As I had said,,,we have never been there before....Thanks again, guys for your responses. And just remember: no players> no teams> no teams> no organizations>no organizations> no MONEY(for them). Maybe we, as players, need to unionize!!!! Have a safe and good one.......
Aug. 3, 2006
rabbit
Men's 65
294 posts
Hi Red Eye,being from the Midwest i can tell about some of M+ teams on your list you posted, Campbell Tire and is no longer a team, some play with Indiana legends/Dixon, but they went 55 AAA with some Riverside Paving players, but I have heard they have disbanded for the year??, so you can scratch those two teams from the list, Direct Hire is now Travelodge, but they do not have all the same players as when they were Direct Hire, they play in the 50 majors now, a real good team, and finally Stafford Sales out of Cincinnati, is no longer together from what I have been told, some play for LeClaire Insurance out of Ohio now ,

as far as still playing, I have seen Schones, Motown Stars, Leclaire Insurance play this year around in this area, seen some others but not on your list, Rabbit
Aug. 4, 2006
RedEye
Men's 55
92 posts
Rabbit, yes some of those teams do not play as those teams anymoe.

Declaires is playing Major, they started out AAA but got bumped up after Indy & another tourney. Good Major team, they beat Schones (Major+) in Cols., Ohio a few weeks back. Good group of guys...............most have been playing since they were 35 and over team.
Aug. 4, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
CAT: One can check out the LVSSA'S web site. Here r some E-MAILS. President- Fred Turnier... Fandrt@cox.net
& his #: (702) 645-6314. V. Pres.- Jim Slark... JSlark@cox.net. The members of LVSSA, would love to have yer team come to Vegas. Any questions, u can E-MAIL me @ STONEMAN_ANIMAL@YAHOO.COM ...

LVSSA, uses the best ball, a DECKER SHARK. This ball is a 44 cor ball w/ a 375 comp. Several of us club member have been hitting some of these DECKER SHARK balls 4 over a year. The club, allows players to use the ULTRA 11.

Good Luck..... Things will turn 4 the better.
The STONEMAN................OUT
Aug. 5, 2006
CAT
148 posts
Now this STONEMAN is a class act. He took the time to sit down at the computer and give me as much info. as I needed to assist me on the LVSSA tourn. This is why I still like senior softball....players taking time to assist other players...I.E. fellowships and new friendships...Thank you Stoneman....
Aug. 6, 2006
CAT
148 posts
Over the weekend, I talked with some "heavy hitters" associated with the NSA organization. Sounds like there may be some law suits coming up with their fiasco during the Worlds. Wrongfully, not allowing a team to play, just look at the lost expenses for the team not alone waste of vacation time. You have hotel expenses, plane flights, entry fees, meals, auto rental etc. Sounds like this just might turn into a soap opera. I am just thankful that I saw the "writing on the wall" with the TDs way before I paid our fees. Maybe they need to go back to Cullman, Ala. where Mr. Joe Cothran and his crew knew how to run the tournament.
Aug. 7, 2006
Fourfour
Men's 50
9 posts
I'm mostly responding to Mike Kelly,
In several ways, I have to agree with you. But I don't think there is a real answer. I've been a USSSA guy almost as long as it has existed. I've had these same discussions with Don D for years. He's always willing to listen to any suggestions, and I believe that U-trip is the closest to getting it right. The problem as I see it is the dwindling of sponsorship money. If the restrictions are lifted, then the few remaining sponsors will get all of the players. When all of the other players realize that it is futile to go to a tournament, they are forced out, or must move down. Which no one wants them to do. This is what destroyed the Masters programs(35-45). One team was always far superior than the rest. As that team gained recognition, everyone wanted to be on it. So subsequent teams were assembled from the players that didn't make the teams higher up on the food chain. That caused everyone to play down, where they had a chance, but they were much better than the teams that belong at the lower level, causing those teams to move lower, or quit because they feel cheated. I think the state touching rule was originally designed the let the smaller states, with smaller programs compete with California, Florida and Texas. You have to admit that as people get older they move to warmer climates, giving those states an advantage. But I do agree that it is discrimination against those states. I don't have the solution. If I did, I'd probably be in charge of the summit.
I also have a comment on people playing on different teams. If you restrict that, you may be eliminating teams. As stated earlier, sponsorship money is limited. It is unlikely than there are many teams than can go to every World Tournament for each association. However, I know there are plenty of players, like myself, that would go to every one, if possible. So, thanks to 2 good teams from Michigan, I have been able to play in more tournaments than if I was limited to only one team. And since both teams don't go to the same tournament, those tournaments benefit from having a team there that might not normally be there.
I think, and hope, that the spirit of the Summit is to help the game grow. Instead of each association. We need to realize that the competion is not each other. It's other choices besides softball. If we want the program to grow, we'd better start offering a better product, so people will leave a tournament site with a disire to come back, instead being one of the many complaints on this board.
Thanks for listening (or reading).
Jim Hanna44
Pine Knob Softball/Motown Stars
Aug. 8, 2006
Jags
Men's 50
8 posts
THIS IS A RESPONSE TO WHOMEVER : THE JAGS LOVE PLAYING THIS GAME AND THE ONLY REASON THE JAGS ARE NOT PLAYING ON FRIDAY AUG 11 IS WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH LEGAL PLAYERS(FROM OUR ROSTER) TO FIELD A TEAM BECAUSE OF WORK RESTRICTIONS. WE CERTAINLY ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO PLAYING AND WOULD LOVE TO PARTICIPATE IN EVERY SEGMENT OF THIS EASTERN NATIONAL . TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST THIS HURTS US MORE THAN IT HELPS WE BELIEVE WE HAVE DISCOVERED THE FORMULA TO WINNING AND IT BEGINS IN THE ROUND ROBIN I WANT TO APOLOGIZE TO ANY ONE WHO MAY BE OFFENDED BUT UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT BECAUSE WE ARE DUCKING WE ENJOY THE COMPETITION THAT COMES FROM PARTICIPATING IN TOURNAMENTS OF THIS CALIBER GOD BLESS YOU AND I HOPE THAT ALL TEAMS PLAYING ARE HEALTHY JAGS
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