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Discussion: 2012 vegas worlds

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Oct. 8, 2012
ballplayer3
4 posts
2012 vegas worlds
Just wanted to comment on the umpires that were used at the vegas worlds. In a word, they were garbage!!!! My sponsor, my teamates, and myself as well as every team we played, were pissed off and really dissappointed at how terrible the umps were. Sponsors pay lots of money to get us all there and expect world series caliber umpires, not even close. Its pretty sad when the umpires are asking players what the count is and how many outs there are. If your going to charge premium prices for your tourneys then get premium quality umpires. I guess you don't always get what you pay for.....
Oct. 8, 2012
magic #25
Men's 40
14 posts
I agree Garbage!! We had a umpire blow four calls in a single game giving the other team nine additional runs or almost two free innings of runs. Had no idea where to position himself, and stood in the same spot the whole game, the kicker is when asked to get help from umpire behind the plate RUFUSED EACH REQUEST!!
Oct. 8, 2012
mx_ata2d
Men's 50
3 posts
I'm not one to complain about umpires because I am one in my local area but I have to strongly agree. There were a few good umps but they were definitely overshadowed by the ridiculous calls of the bad umps. Shame on the league for subjecting all the teams that traveled so far and spent so much money to get there. I know that regardless of the call an umpire makes he is sure to piss one team or the other. But there was a lot of bad calls really bad calls, and lack of focus as to balls,strikes and outs. Very dissapointing ending to a long year of tournament ball.
Oct. 9, 2012
neck10
504 posts
we only had one weak umpire just so happens he had us the first 3 games behind the plate besides that um the rest of them were good
Oct. 9, 2012
Tim Millette
499 posts
We played nine games.....had about six umps I'd say we're great....a few that we average and two that were bad.

Both the bad umps were nice guys.... Just over their head on a couple occasions...

The best example of this could be in the semi finals of the major Division our home plate umpire made this ruling......

Screaming liner hit at our pitcher....
Trying to field it our pitcher gloves it at the tip of his glove....
This resulted in his glove being ripped from his hand....
As the glove lay on the ground and the ball rolling towards second base the ump yells.....

Ground rule TRIPLE!!!!!

He explained that he knew our pitcher did not throw his glove at the ball but that didn't matter.... It was still a triple.... Thank heavens he allowed help and was well..... Let's just say.... It was a teachable moment for him...

The question is...... How could a guy that believed that was a ground rule triple have any umpiring experience?
Oct. 9, 2012
Tim Millette
499 posts
One more thing...... Every umpire we had, carried themselves in a professional manner and had good/great people skills.

That gives you a lot of leeway when you mess up as far as I am concerned.
Oct. 9, 2012
BobLaser
Men's 50
38 posts
The umpires were pretty good overall that we had but in the top of the 7th inning, I beat out a grounder by a step and was called out. It changed the complexion of the inning, we didn't score, and the Family Stones 50's came back in the bottom of the 7th to score 5 runs and beat us. Hats off to the Hawaii team. They were awesome but how could an ump blow a call that everybody could see in a championship game? He had previously lamented that it was hot and if we won, we would have to play another game.
Oct. 9, 2012
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Yes, I have to strongly agree also, there were a lot BAD calls, way more than I expected at a World event. A few of those calls were so so wrong, I felt bad for the team that it went against. They did played a big part in some games. a lot of wasited time over not knowing or wrong call.
There was this guy who umpired our last game. He made 3 bad calls at 2nd base on us at Cheyanne Park Saturday night and the next day he umping at Arroyal Grande, the 50 Womans, Still making bad calls. He was always out of position. So they must of known these guys were bad So moved them around, park to park. Replacement Umps. LOL
Oct. 9, 2012
Mulewhipper
68 posts
Ground rule triple??? Seriously? WOW!
For the most parts all umpires were good...we had one at Doc Romeo that was pretty bad...but he didn't really factor in the game.

He did something funny once... called a pitch a strike... then told the pitcher to bring it down... wait...if it's a strike, why did he have to bring it down?
Oct. 9, 2012
ffdonnie
Men's 50
95 posts
Most of the umps we had were fine. Always the few questionable calls but they were the least of the problems at this tourney. One gentleman did get really fed-up with a couple poor sports from Idaho, but it was very late at night and his 9th or 10th game.

Speaking of poor sports, does any know the Bucs from Texas I think? Several wouldn't shake hands after and the whole team ran off and didn't give a salute to us (Ave. Towing). We have no idea what that was about. There was no crap talking at all during the game. First time I've seen that in Seniors.
Oct. 9, 2012
gott2play
Men's 55
148 posts
In our third game Friday at Cheyenne, out of position 2B umpire calls one of our players out for missing the 2B bag, which he clearly stepped right on, even showing the ump his cleat print. We ask for help from home plate ump and he says not his call...third out inning over. On our way out to field, player says to home plate umpire, "how can he make that call?". Home plate ump responds to player across the diamond with "do better next time". Really? I told him his job was to call balls and strikes and not add his personal commentary, to which he replied, "I'm a grown ass man"

SSUSA, I understand this tourney drew more teams than ever before. Maybe next year, we can do better with some of the umpiring crews.
Oct. 9, 2012
PrimeTime22
5 posts
Ground Rule Triple??...WOW is the word ... lol ... OK, first off, no Umpire cost us a game ... We beat ourselves and/or got killed twice despite finishing fairly high in the SS/Major Division with an injured and makeshift team so this is not sour grapes at all but some of this needs to be said and/or echoed ...

Senior Softball is fun but obviously Highway Robbery ... If you don't have a Very rich Sponsor, you can't play it ... Do the Math Folks, 446 Teams x $700 ($695 I know)...Almost $310,000 right there ... Then they make you register ... 10-15 Guys per team at what, depending on how they register, $15-$25 per player or more so tack on at the low end an extra $200 per team on registration alone x 446 for another $89,000

Now God Bless'em they created all this so they deserve whatever us nitwits are willing to pay and don't forget about buying Balls this past weekend ... Uggh ... However, being an Umpire myself for decades, I know it is not always easy and there are not that many great ones out there because most that are any good, still play ...

But considering the money made off this one Tournament alone, not to mention all the others across the Nation, the least they could do is try and find some capable Umpires that have a clue as to what is going on ... We had a guy late Friday Night who was more worried about updating the Scoreboard than watching the actual play ... We threw a Guy out at 2B by 5 feet and he was at the Backstop by the updater calling him safe ... Seriously??

So of course we got on him and he hustled up the 1B line the next inning only to intentionally screw us by calling a guy out who was a step PAST the base when the Ball got there ... He blew multiple other calls and while I was in LF, asked for the Manager, even though he knew my Number, my Asst Coach came out and intentionally said he was the Manager and he immediately threw him out of the game

The Guys over the Weekend were equally as bad ... calling Foul Ball Homers fair and calling balls that did not even come close to the Mat strikes ... And one guy even threw out a spectator just for saying "The least you could do is know the count!!" ... Never cursed at him, nothing ... It was just laughable

We were getting killed Friday Night and I asked the guy if there was a Mercy Run Rule ... He said "5 Runs an Inning" ... Then when I explained what I actually meant, he said he didn't know ... When a Tourney makes $450,000 in one Weekend (and probable Hotel Kickbacks to boot), the least you could do is have Umpires that know the actual rules ...

Sorry, except for teams tagging up from 2nd to 3rd up by 22 and other teams going middle with Ultra's up by 18 w/Homers left and some other stuff, we all mostly enjoy Senior Softball ... But we need to recruit Umps if need be that have some actual knowledge of the game ... I know it's a tough weekend with the NSA D's in town as well but fly guys in if you have to ... Because this was ludicrous
Oct. 9, 2012
hoovedog
Men's 50
73 posts
We has an Ump at Desert Breeze Friday morning for 60 AAA pool game Titans versus Texas Thunder, that had never umpired a slow pitch softball game!! Our catcher had to tell him what was legal and what wasn't.
Oct. 9, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Maybe they recruited from the NFL .... but you know, they will be back, maybe for PHX next month.
Ouch.
Oct. 9, 2012
ballplayer3
4 posts
Very well put primetime 22. We played in the 40's at BLD and in 8 games, 7 of the umpires were awful. Most of them were good guys, but that doesn't help with making the calls. They are making money hand over fist, the least they could do is to get experienced umps. We won our division so its not sour grapes that fuels this message. I was catching for the entire weekend, so when the umps are asking me the count and for an HR total for both teams I knew we all were in trouble. The competition was great and was the only thing that saved the weekend.
Oct. 9, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
hoovedog, that should have worked to your advantage....:)

PrimeTime22, you are preaching to this member of the choir. LOL

Oct. 9, 2012
hoovedog
Men's 50
73 posts
It worked great till the Titans were on the wrong end of a couple of calls..
Oct. 9, 2012
playball54
1 posts
I was out at games both wknds of the SSUSA World Championships - as a player one wknd and as a fan the other. I saw a lot of weak officials. There were also some very good ones. The first wknd at Doc Romeo there was a group of guys that did a hell of a job. I'm not sure where they were from. I was actually at Shadow Rock this past Sun watching Family Stones vs Lasers and myself as well as the group I was with thought the umpire made the correct call at first base in top of open inning. Nor did any of us think that one call changed the game. There
was actually a closer call earlier in the game at first base that went NM way on a double play
ball but we thought the umpire nailed that one too. That crew was very vocal and always hustled. I think there are some very unfair comments being made about the umpires. I caught
a game the first Sat night at Doc Romeo and I have never seen a team complain so much about whether or not strikes were hitting the mat. It was obvious they were but because that team was losing it was all the umpires fault. Grow up guys. Nice job umpires!
Oct. 9, 2012
Softball77
1 posts
I watched a lot of the games, I agree some of the umpires never moved from the plate, or didnt offer any help when asked by the other umpire. Bad calls happen, and there was one team that didnt score but 2 runs in 3 innings, got a bad call in the fourth inning and went crazy, blamed the umpires on them losing. It's softball, not life or death. I saw some classless players who I wouldnt want my kids or anyone else watch. You play with corked bats, that makes you better than you are. Let's go back to the same bats everyone who plays uses. No senior softball bats untill your over 65. See how many superstars we'd have out there.
Oct. 10, 2012
BobLaser
Men's 50
38 posts
I was bothered by the mistreatment of the umps wih players yelling at them after the inital protest. We need to show respect for them. I told the ump that I was safe and that is where it ended. Still playball54, I respectfully disagree with you and your 'group'. My entire team told me otherwise and don't you know I saw my foot hit the bag and then the ball hit the glove. I was there. Even the Hawaiian players next to the dugout were laughing with me. At the same time, Family Stone came back and scored 5 runs with 2 outs in bottom of 7th inning. Hats offs to them. Plus even if we won, we had to win another 'if' game. Maybe, we were spared . Not only was Family Stone a great team but they were a classy group of guys!
Oct. 10, 2012
BobLaser
Men's 50
38 posts
My apologies. My first base coach just told me I was out barely. I could've have sworn I was safe and my whole dugout told me I was. Those lying communists!
Oct. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Softball77, welcome to the board, and thanks for a dose of common sense.
Oct. 10, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
182 posts
I was also in Vegas...We had some good umps and a few not so good...But bottom line is..Umps don't win or lose a game..The team does..Each team gets it's own share of good calls and bad calls..Just play and stop whining..As far as the old rules..I'd play with a whiffle ball and rolled up newspaper if that's what was required...I use the latest bat but wouldn't care if we went back to wood bats..I just show up / play and run for myself...Just my .02
Oct. 10, 2012
southernson
261 posts
PrimeTime22,

Echo here my softball brother, $450K is a LOT OF CASH...

Oct. 10, 2012
ballplayer3
4 posts
No one is whining, If you pay alot of money then you should get what you pay for. A few bad calls are no big deal, it happens. When the umps don't know the rules, the strike zone, how many outs there are how many HR's both teams have what a mercy rule is, then it becomes an issue. The umpires as a whole were garbage. This has nothing to do with the bats, balls or when you played ball and were young. Umpires at the worlds should be there because they have earned the chance to umpire a world tourney. They make tons of money on these tourneys they can afford better umps. Go play with the wooden bats and wiffle balls if you want to, the umpires still sucked at the worlds!!!!
Oct. 10, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
182 posts
ballplayer3..Not saying things were perfect..Just stating the facts as I saw them where I played...Didn't see but 1 Umpire that filled the descriptions given...Don't know where you played..But it wasn't that bad where I was...My point was...I play because I can and want too,,My wiffle ball comment was just to point that out. Next time I'll type slower and use smaller words so as not to cause you any confusion...
Oct. 10, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
225 posts
Boblaser...you guys played awesome n our game against u was very exciting! We were bless to comptete against ur team n all of the fans there were blown away...mahalo my Brada for the comment about our team...Aloha, Fabe (Left Field #7)
Oct. 10, 2012
PrimeTime22
5 posts
Thanks Fellas...Glad some others feel my pain ... lol ... And BP3 said it perfectly, he won (I assume with Team TPS) and as I mentioned, no Umpires cost us a game directly so none of this is sour grapes in any way, shape or form ... But they have to know the basic rules and WANT to be there ... Not doing 1,000 Games in a row in Vegas Heat ... Or after allegedly (as rumor had it) smoked stuff before games or anything else ...

As I previously stated, been Umpiring for YEARS and I know sometimes Softball Players do not make it easy but I have found, as long as you have a basic clue as to what you're doing, they won't kill you ... And again, maybe at some complexes you might've had good guys ... Good for you ...

But most of what did the Over-40 Major Division at BLD over this past weekend was an abomination ... Sorry but no simpler way to put it ... Heard the Triple-A Guys weren't bad ... Too bad they weren't switched ... The Team from Guam never would've noticed the difference ... lol
Oct. 11, 2012
ballplayer3
4 posts
Olden Slow, just so you can understand, No one was talking about how you play, why you play, or what you swing. The point I was making is that THE UMPIRES LEFT ALOT TO BE DESIRED. If that was to fast for you I'll send you a video and you can watch it. So to avoid further confusion.
Oct. 11, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
182 posts
bp3: A video would be appreciated. I also agree that from comments that it appears that Some Umps left a lot to be desired..I just did not see it at my venue...Please slow down next time...But my point is still, I will play as long as I can. There was a guy that I talked to that was playing and not Umping...He did make an interesting comment about the 1 Ump I was talking about..He said " If an Ump looks at his clicker on every pitch...Trouble is brewing" But that was an isolated incident..
It is too bad that the Umps at your venus played such a big part of the tourney..
Oct. 11, 2012
stick8
1318 posts
Ballplayer3 there might be a reason for that. As I understand it, 5 of the SSUSA Umpire-In-Chiefs were fired by SSUSA a short while ago. This is strictly speculatory, but it's possible that some of the crew of those UIC's may have decided not to ump because of those firings--loyalty to their crew chief. Again it's only speculation. If that's the case then SSUSA must have called out to as many local Las Vegas umpires as possible and give them a crash course on the rules.
Oct. 11, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
765 posts
I had the unigue pleasure of playing 13 games in two divisions the same weekend. 60 Major+ - GSF and 55 Major - NCI. In all of those games we had one umpiring crew in one game that was not up to the task. The pain was self inflicted by the umpires. The game was spirited and had serious implications.Initially the home plate umpire was too authoritative and did not handle a couple of situations well. Both involved the other team and did not impact our team adversely. I later had the same homeplate umpire in the championship game and he did not seem to have the same issues as earlier. My only conjecture is he did not have a good game. It happens to us all.

My personal consensus is, in these two divisions, the umpiring crews acted as arbiters of the game and did not become the game. Exactly the way it should be.

I agree with stick8, there may be some residule effect regarding UICs' being let go. This issue will resolve itself in time and I can say with confidence that SSUSA would not have made such a decision, considering its potential impact, without being forced to. I can appreciate the angst the management of SSUSA most have dealt with in trying to rectify this issue prior to Worlds.

In my opinion, in slowpitch softbal, there are significant moments that can affect outcomes, but for the most part, if you score early and often, your team will prevail.

Looking forward to Phoenix in November.

Mike Adair
Oct. 11, 2012
AE27
1 posts
PT22, I'm not sure I understand what you meant about the 40 triple A. You think they should have switched with major? Are you ripping the major division or tripple A division.
Oct. 12, 2012
PrimeTime22
5 posts
I wasn't ripping anybody...Just jokingly stating that rumor had it the Triple-A Umpires weren't bad ... Reportedly better than the Guys in the Major Division so too bad they didn't switch them ... It really wasn't meant to rip anybody ... Nobody actually knew certain Umpires were better than others, it just apparently worked out that way ... And if 5 UIC's were fired, that might go a long way towards explaining last weekend's debacle
Oct. 13, 2012
tvol01
1 posts
I thought overall it was a great weekend,,, and I also think like many other things in life the umpiring falls into a bell shape curve,,, some were great, some were really bad but overall most fell right in the middle,,,with as many umps as they had to use, I think it turned out pretty good,,,, My philosphy has always been " if your going to complain about something then also have an answer for fixing it,,, i've herd alot of complaining but not alot of GOOD suggestions for fixing it
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