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Discussion: Is SSUSA trying to go too far?

Posted Discussion
Oct. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Is SSUSA trying to go too far?
First off, if this does not get deleted thanks to SSUSA for allowing candor on this board.

But, are they trying to push too hard on the Vegas Worlds? Too many teams with the promise of too many games seems to be leading to games being played on terrible fields with crappy umpires. Perhaps just not enough quality fields and umps to go around for the expanded field and schedule.

I know I am the first to talk about the tiny brackets, but I don't think the Worlds is the place to try and show how many teams you can attract. And it certainly should not be the place where a 5-game guarantee is needed to entice teams to participate.

Actual qualifiers should be used to control bracket size, and the fact it is as close as perhaps senior softball comes to a real World tourney should be enough to attract teams to just play a double-elimination tournament in a meaningful situation. It was good enough to get teams to little old Parma, Ohio MANY times in the 60s and 70s. Teams did not need the allure of Vegas to come and potentially play only two games. The honor and opportunity was more than enough.

Why not now?
Oct. 10, 2012
AZTOMC
Men's 55
104 posts
Gary, what team were you on in Vegas? Which division?
Oct. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Just going by the MANY comments posted on here.

If either all of the fields were excellent, or all of the umps were outstanding, I apologize.
Oct. 10, 2012
AZTOMC
Men's 55
104 posts
If you weren't there and you don't play, mind your own business and stay out of it. All you do is get on here and make moronic negative statements and you don't even play the game. Get out there and compete, then your opinions would count. Now go ahead and blast me like you do everyone else, I DON'T CARE.
Oct. 10, 2012
wagon487
Men's 50
524 posts
I have to agree with AZTOMC, you weren't there, you don't play, why do you feel like you have to comment on everything you know nothing about! Please go away.......
Oct. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
So I am wrong, as must be a bunch of other guys, and the fields were all good and the umps were all great? There weren't too many games and teams to be accommodated?

Guys do need a 5-game guarantee to play for a world championship, or they won't come? It does have to be in Vegas to make guys want to compete?

Gee, my bad......LOL
Oct. 10, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
In all honesty, I was just asking a legitimate question. You read and hear all the time about organizations who try to grow and expand too quickly, and don't have the necessary infrastructure to support it.

That's all this was about, sorry you guys get so immediately defensive.
Oct. 10, 2012
Ugly Stick
Men's 60
20 posts
I watch some of the games from different fields as I live in Vegas. Some fields are tougher than others to play on. Just the thought about playing at cheyene has the players thinking should I bring a gun or what. Might want to leave that one out next year. 450+ teams is a lot of teams to accomadate. The SSUSA does try and do their best to keep everybody happy. I just met Dave and Fran this year and they are super people that bust their butts to get it all done. It might be a little too much, but there is only one way to find out. Give it a try, and they did. The question is overall was the tourney an success? I don't know the answer to that but I would like to think so.

I got my seat reserved for next year at Big League Dreams for the championship.. Great effort to everyone involved.
Oct. 10, 2012
Budda12
Men's 65
31 posts
Had a grate time in vegas all teams in the 60AA were very good. A lot of close games and extra innings. Upms were from Maryland, very good umps, at shadow rock comples fields
Oct. 10, 2012
Budda12
Men's 65
31 posts
Sorry it was the 65AA guess I had a good time forgot how old I was. HA
Oct. 10, 2012
AZTOMC
Men's 55
104 posts
I played in the 55's. I too had a great time. Great teammates, good ballgames, fields at Lorenzi were very nice. The Umps....their human. hahaha. I think they did a great job. Wish I could have gone up and played the 50's the next weekend. I would play again in Vegas in a heartbeat. See ya all in Phoenix in a couple weeks.
Oct. 10, 2012
boston
305 posts
Aztomc: Ur out of line saying someone doesn't have a right to speak about senior tourneys since they do not play. That is paramount to saying you have no right to speak out about education because you are not a teacher or you do not have kids in school. I am very outspoken politically on blogs and in newspapers with letters to the editors. I am not a politician and never have been so does that exempt me from an informed opinion or just an opinion on issues. I think not.

We all know Gary19 can be a pain in the astericks. But it did appear from the many posts that SSUSA was over reaching with 400 plus teams in Vegas. No one denies that Dave and fran work hard and do their best to give players a quality tourney/tourneys. But, it is possible that the Vegas venue was not conducive to handle the 400 plus teams with quality fields, umpires and playing times. There is no way seniors should be playing past 9 or 10pm forget about midnight and 1am. I play in 24 hr tourneys and it is tough between 12 and 5am but I go knowing what i'm getting myself into. Plus in my defense I can always turn to a 20 yr old and say sub. Seniors don't have that option.

A couple of guys stated they had a great time w/ teammates and had good games. But, seniors say that about playing in Phoenix, Dalton, Timbukto etc. There are players that don't care where they play as long as they are with there buddies. So my impression is Vegas wouldn't make a difference for these guys.

I hope I have a right to say all this since I only play about 3 senior tourneys a year and play in an 18 team senior league. I as not in Vegas and I stated in another discussion about softball tourneys and Vegas. it is just not a place i am going to spend money to travel to to play softball.

Congrats to all the teams that finished top 3. Quite an accomplishment with the size of some of the divisions.
Oct. 10, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
Ahhhh Gary19 the ultimate hypocrite. One of your incessantly recurring complaints is small brackets and not enough competition to waste your money on. Now, at a tournament you didn't even attend you come out saying too many teams, too many problems. Why don't you go into your little keyboard corner and allow the guys that were there to debate these points. There are a lot of new posters here-let them talk.
Boston-you play-you understand. It seems obvious this was major growing pains for SSUSA. But I know these guys and will be betting they are working hard already to prevent a repeat and improve it. The city of Las Vegas bears the blame on some of this too-see Dave Dowell's comment on another thread. As a matter of fact, I am willing to offer to help some next year-time permitting-to get this tournament running better rather than just hollering about it. How about you, Gary19?
Oct. 10, 2012
Doorman
35 posts
Is SSUSA trying to go too far? No

Did they have some problems in LV? Yes

Did they push to hard? No, SS got pushed too hard by so many teams entering the tournament so late. I think 125 teams entered in the last week of registration which is a lot more than they anticipated. My guess is SS thought they had this under control...until the 125 extra teams registered. LV was an enormous undertaking for the organizers and they may have bitten off more than they can chew, but they got it done. Keep in mind that a SS tournament this large is new and it is evolving.

Q. Before SS, where did senior softball ballplayers play?

A. We played against the kids or we quit. Let's be happy we have a place to play.

Also, let's be realistic. SS is a BUSINESS and businesses are created to make MONEY. Making money is not a crime.

There have been lots of complaints about umpires. My guess is SS probably had to import extra umpires at the last minute. Plus they worked the crap out of all the umpires because the field of teams grew so much and so fast. BTW, umpires are going to make mistakes, it has always been this way and it will never change.

I have been critical of some of the scheduling and I think they needed to hear it. I think they do need to work on some issues and they probably know it. I think it could run better but they are on the right track. I wasn't happy about everything that happened in LV, but overall I still had fun.

It would be a lot more constructive if more people would offer solutions and help rather than just complain.



Oct. 10, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
220 posts
Well I was there n can tell you for so many people from Hawaii this was a special event! The amount of teams, the high skill of players n the this huge tourney being put together was mind boggling! My team Familystones Hawaii won the 50s AAA n is a moment we all will never forget! The tourney wasnt perfect, but none ever is....We were bless to be there. When your Dad tells you the game was so exciting that people were leaving the bleachers cause they could'nt watch....I say thats a success! Aloha, Fabe
Oct. 11, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
Fabe-congratulations! You guys get it!! Welcome to majors. I remember meeting you guys last year and it was a pleasure. I am very glad you did so well.
Oct. 11, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Is SSUSA trying to go too far? No

Did they have some problems in LV? Yes

Did they push to hard? No, SS got pushed too hard by so many teams entering the tournament so late. I think 125 teams entered in the last week of registration which is a lot more than they anticipated. My guess is SS thought they had this under control...until the 125 extra teams registered. LV was an enormous undertaking for the organizers and they may have bitten off more than they can chew, but they got it done. Keep in mind that a SS tournament this large is new and it is evolving. Don't you have to qualify? Wasn't there a manageable limit for the number of teams?

Q. Before SS, where did senior softball ballplayers play?

A. We played against the kids or we quit. Let's be happy we have a place to play.

Also, let's be realistic. SS is a BUSINESS and businesses are created to make MONEY. Making money is not a crime. It certainly isn't. But if not a legal one you certainly have a moral and ethical obligation when you take someone's money to provide the highest quality product.

There have been lots of complaints about umpires. My guess is SS probably had to import extra umpires at the last minute. Plus they worked the crap out of all the umpires because the field of teams grew so much and so fast. BTW, umpires are going to make mistakes, it has always been this way and it will never change.

I have been critical of some of the scheduling and I think they needed to hear it. I think they do need to work on some issues and they probably know it. I think it could run better but they are on the right track. I wasn't happy about everything that happened in LV, but overall I still had fun.

It would be a lot more constructive if more people would offer solutions and help rather than just complain. I did, in my original post. Have a set number of qualifiers which will automatically control the number of participants. Consequently the proper number of MAINTAINED fields and qualified umpires can be procurerd. Can't get much more of a tangible solution than that.

Oct. 11, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"I know I am the first to talk about the tiny brackets, but I don't think the Worlds is the place to try and show how many teams you can attract."

Mark, try reading just a weeeeeee bit better. I headed you off on this one. Nice try, though.......:)
Oct. 11, 2012
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
Is this the proper thread to propose that, fittingly, Cheyenne Park in Vegas be renamed G19 Fields? What do think Webbie? (Nice meeting you by the way. You had a super tourney. Always a pleasure to put faes with board names.)
Oct. 11, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
NO......:)

Some of you guys must belong to the biggest flock of sheep in captivity. Or maybe some of you aren't captive.

Too bad PT Barnum is not still around to startup an association.
Oct. 11, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
This from a non playing, non card carrying gadfly.

Wait, maybe its not from 46/36, but rather, this is from the boy who cried wolf.

See you in Phoenix - not.
Oct. 11, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Once again, I play plenty. Just much more economically.

Oct. 11, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
Youa re not playing SSUSA, unless they are running tournaments at Lomand Elementry, down the street from you.

You have a right to your opinion, but to opine about an organization that you are not participating in is just.....being a school yard bully....or rather as I like to say, your mouth/keyboard is writing checks that your body can't cash.
Oct. 11, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
220 posts
Gary19, I have played a lot of ball over the years and I can tell u that this was the most exciting tourney I have won! We invest to compete for these eternal memories! I can speak for my team that we would do it all over again...not sheep just willing to compete at a high level. Aloha, Fabe
Oct. 11, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Fabe, competing at a high level is great.

The problem is when you are taken advantage of with sub-standard fields and sub-par umpires, both I read about in many posts on here, because they know guys will just keep coming back and paying more with no regard for the quality of what is being provided.

You would not do that at a restaurant, or a clothing store, or an auto dealer, why for softball?
Oct. 11, 2012
boston
305 posts
Fabe: Am I to understand that playing senior tournaments is the only way to compete at a higher level in softball past the age of 50.
Oct. 11, 2012
AZTOMC
Men's 55
104 posts
Question, are Boston and Gary19 the same person?
Oct. 11, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
No Gary Sommers lives in Ohio, I believe Boston lives in NM. In Sommers case he has not played in an SSUSA event since 2010 where he played 2 or 3, he could not remember exactly. 46/36 always writes like we are supposed to be ashamed that we are getting older and not playing the same type of ball that we did when we were in our 20s. Trouble is kid softball today is not the same as it was 35-40 years ago. He applies a double standard when it fits his purposes. Instead of playing kid ball and dealing with it. He continues to hijack our threads with his "remember when" comments. Instead of showing up on the ballfield and competing as we do, he perfers his couch in shaker heights with his wireless keyboard and dreams of days gone by.
Oct. 11, 2012
boston
305 posts
Aztomic: Not the same just have some similar views at times. I live in NM but am originally and always will be a Bostonian. Never played softball in the good old days some of you guys talk about. Was too busy with baseball and basketball. Softball was seen as a game for old fat guys. lol I have definitely changed my opinion on that one. I played baseball up until age 50. I do play senior tourneys, senior league and usssa leagues. But don't do as many senior tourneys as years past. Play more USSSA tourneys I now get to play on the same team as my son. Even better we play beside each other in the OF. Also, so G19 and I won't ever be confused I'm more of a 42/32. lol

Stay thirsty my friends!!
Oct. 12, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
softball4b, you are correct. It hasn't been since WAAAAAAAAY back in 2010 that I played a tournament. So sorry it has been SOOOOOOOOOO long.

Could you tell me what has changed since then that I am out-of-date with? Is the mat gone? The special bats? Bogus "courtesy" runners? Run limits? Time limits? Lousy awards? Tiny brackets in 90% of the tournaments? Have those all gone away in ALL that time? Any of them?
Oct. 12, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
AZTOMC-they are not the same person. I know Boston personally and he actually plays tournaments and meets people face to face. G19 doesn't have the guts to do that. He sits behind his keyboard and disparages people, SSUSA, the game of senior softball, and, if he is getting his tail whipped verbally, he will unleash some very personal attacks on people. He must be so proud to be who he is. Boston is learning that senior softball is different-we spoke last tournament about it. You have to play to really get the difference.36/46 or whatever he is will never get it-and that fact gives me great pleasure.
Oct. 12, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Mark, tell me you aren't playing that lame courage card. My name and city are posted on here, unlike the vast majority of posters, and I don't have guts? I am not at all hard to find.

And I don't disagree at all that senior softball is "different". My question is, why. Most of the differences are not for safety, or as accommodations to age, but rather to keep games moving, get them over with, and make people money.

You can be happy with those differences, and I notice you did not say improvements, but I prefer to be able to see through things.
Oct. 12, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Gary19,
Gee you make that sound like your the mostly upstanding guy on this thread. Lets take a shortened synopsis of your self here ...
Three different ids none of which until this last one actually had your name and location. Before that your were like the no info guys on here. But at least most of them offer good information or worthy comments. Your rare good posts are just that, rare but good when you have one,,,err senior moment.... lol
While I like to know who I'm chatting with, for me its in the content. Usually, the rest comes out eventually, some how some way.
Kinda like your invite on Linkendin for me which I ignored because we really have no common thread. SB or business wise. Also you did not reply to an email I sent about a year ago to addy on here, wasn't returned so I know it was vlid.
Any way, why worry about no personal info, you did it for about 4 years.
You must really be lonely.... But I hope not.
Anyway, take care.
Oct. 12, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Scott, you pay more attention to me than I do myself, but I am pretty sure I have always identified myself. Your claim of my no personal info for 4 years I do believe is just plain incorrect, but like I said you pay more attention to me than I do.

I will agree content might be more important than idenification, but if someone is going to call me gutless I need to point out that not identifying yourself can also be taken as a wee bit of cowardice.

As far as LinkedIn, I only invited you since you felt the need to look me up on there. I did not go looking for you. If we have nothing in common why did you go looking me up?

Lonely? No, not really. A wife of 32 years, five kids, friends at three differnt YMCAs I workout at weekly, teammates on multiple teams in the area. I am just fine in that regard, but thanks for being concerned.

You take care, too!
Oct. 12, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
You just proved you don't get it. The difference is the approach of a huge number of players, (many, many of which I have spoken with in person),unlike you)play as much for the fun of it as anything.But, keep trying, oh Contrary one.
By the way, did you actually play any innings in 2010 or did you keep score and just get on the roster?
Oct. 12, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
46/36 lets not try and rewrite history. Your information is available because it posted here by me. You got ticked off that it was posted even though it was public information. All that was needed was a little Google mining. Why you need multiple ids is known only to you, mine has been the same for 20+ years.
I played more SSUSA innings and had more at bats, two weekends ago, than you did all of 2010. Senior Softball is constantly evolving as is the kids’ game. This organization seems to receive the majority of your ire. Most of the other organizations recognize that rules must be adjusted based on age and skill, but you seem to limit your comments to this website. That is unless you maintain a persona different than Gary19 when lurking on other message boards.

You seem mired in the past and write as though you have not had an original thought in 40 years. I am sure that in your professional life you have adapted and adjusted based on the needs of you chosen field. Recognize this is true of all things. Though nostalgic, the five and dime is gone, the drive in theater, and the American League has the DH.

BTW even in 1971, there were 2 divisions Rec and Open.

You are certainly right to your opinion, but it appears that you constantly take the opposing view, regardless of the subject matter. I don’t doubt that it is more fun for you to be “the fire starter” rather than actually providing a cogent thought provoking idea. The emotionally immature person, however, has low levels of self-esteem and self-confidence and consequently feels insecure; to counter these feelings of insecurity they will spend a large proportion of their lives creating situations in which they become the centre of attention.

Words are Words, Actions are facts. I will be in Phoenix in November.
Oct. 12, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1003 posts
Mr 46/36 LMAO
Oct. 12, 2012
gott2play
Men's 55
146 posts
Mike,

Very well put, a well thought out, well written verbal lashing if you will. Sadly, I doubt it will have any effect on this individual as he'll most likely move on to the next thread to hijack and voice his repetitive nonsense about the nature of the SSUSA game and events, none of which he even patronizes.

Tony Baltazar
So Cal 55 - Major
Oct. 13, 2012
boston
305 posts
Webbie my daughter and grandson moved to rio rancho last week. He is the one whose team won 7u coach pitch state and world series. If u know any one that has any info on a competitive 8u AAA or 7U AAA team in the rio rancho area could u lmk. u can email me at bostonnm@yahoo.com w/ info.
Must admit even though I love playing with my son in usssa. We played a dblhdr last nite. I also played a dblehdr today with the seniors. I am stuck with these dilemnas, expect the kids to performed based on their youth speed, power, agilty, arm strength, nite vision. Then I expect the older guys to perform based on their experience and maturity. when either doesn't i get frustrated. Not that I don't make mistakes but is it too much to have different expectations for people based on their age.
Oct. 14, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
Age takes its toll-mentally and physically. We know the mental ones as senior moments. Every so often I do something on the field and have that 'What the heck was THAT!-moment". I know better, but just did it. As for the physical, nothing we can do about that. I used to have those high expectations of my teammates, but know I look at the effort given. If a guy gives it all-I will never say anything about the result.(Except maybe to rib him about getting older). I hear so many guys say 'I've had my best days and best tournaments.I am going to have fun now." I still strive to be the best, but I have a lot more fun now. I used to dwell on losses. After 44 years of playing this game I don't any more.
Oct. 14, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
220 posts
Web, great post n mahalo for the reminder of being respectful! I always prepare myself the best that I can n have learned to respect my mates preparation also. By the way poking fun at each other is fun n part of being a solid team! Aloha, Fabe
Oct. 14, 2012
audieh
Men's 60
242 posts
Webbie/Fabe I like your spirit and thinking as I never get mad at a teammate that is trying. None of us try to hit into a double play or over throw first or get thrown out trying to take an extra base. Softball is a game and we try our best, but it is not war or life and death.

We try our darn-est to win but if we lose we look forward to the next game. At 60 the body and mind do not react like they did when I was 30 but the element of fun has increased exponentially to the reduction in skill.

Several of my kids came to Vegas a few years ago to watch us play. They all agreed that we played like we were 10 years old which offended me at first. Then they explained that I had taught them to get their gloves on the dirt and come up on a ground ball, to always get in front of a hard grounder in the infield, to always hit the cut off man, to listen to the base coaches, to always know the out count.

I slowly began to realize that we as a team were guilty of flaws in many of the fundamentals for self preservation and eroding skills BUT we get to come back and play again without injury! So even though I will continue to try and improve I realize that as seniors we all have are limitations and I will not be overly harsh on myself or my teammates!
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