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Discussion: AAA Home Runs

Posted Discussion
Oct. 11, 2012
Retired63
2 posts
AAA Home Runs
For AAA, home runs more then 3 in a game used to be considered outs. With the merger, this was changed to walks when more then 3 home runs were hit by a team. I would like this changed back to outs when more then 3 home runs are hit by a team in a game. This would help to level the playing field.

Just played in the Vegas tournament at the 60 AAA level. We watched a team hit 9 home runs in the game before us, and then hit 8 home runs against us when we played them in the next game. They were obviously a Major caliber team.

By going back to outs after 3 home runs, this might move some teams (or players) up to Majors.
Oct. 11, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
The best way to level the playing field is to improve your team and players. Rules should not make games competitive, players should. JMO
Oct. 11, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
220 posts
I agree with G19 on this topic :)

Having played in Vegas multiple times over 24+ years, balls that go 315 in Ohio seem to go 375++++ in Vegas (same ball anyway)44/375??

Guys on one of my league teams, who uses composite bats and the same balls in league games and never hits homers in Ohio, can hit them 305++ in Vegas.

Line drives a few feet over a shortstops head sometimes go out in Vegas. They just keep going.

My point being, I think some teams can hit way more homers in Vegas than they would in other parts of the country, at least midwest and east??

The team that was clobbering HR's could be a legitimate AAA team

I personally like the walk rule after 3 HR's, & don't think you should not be penalized outs, for hitting fair balls.

BUT, another argument could be with all the teams and back-ups with game times this year, the outs could have sped some games up too????
Oct. 11, 2012
Doorman
35 posts
I saw a 50AAA team hit 18 HR's in a game. Most of the HR's were way over the fence. One guy had 5 HR's and I think he could hit HR's out of the Grand Canyon. I saw plenty of other teams hitting 10+ HR's during the tournament in LV and I dont see them as a AAA team.

If teams can hit 18 HR's per game then they should be playing in Majors or M+, not AAA.

My team played 11 games and we only hit 18 for the entire tournament (11 games).

I dont like the walk rule after 3 HR's...in fact I hate it. I like 3 HR's, then 1 up rule, then outs.

Allowing HR's to be walks is another advantage for the teams that produce most of their runs off HR's. It feeds into the concept that SS is all about hitting HR's while discounting the importance of fielding, base running, physical endurance and base hits.

We use nuclear powered bats, we hit super balls, we have unlimited pinch runners, plus players get to hit and they dont need to play the field...ever. Obviously the game is geared for hitting HR's. Why do the homerun hitters need another advantage?

If SS is just going to be a HR hitting contest then get rid of the fielders and the bases. JMO
Oct. 11, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Expect to see some toning down of the rules next year, not where they where, but somewhere in between. Black17 is right, Vegas does have a huge effect on distance.
Oct. 11, 2012
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
I can tell you that in the 65 Major Plus bracket, home runs were NOT the rule (except when Dave Reed from Florida Thunder was at the plate). We (Omen) played 7 games and I'll bet we did not hit 15 TOTAL in the 7 games. I think Dave hit 17 by himself in one of the best exhibitions of power hitting I've ever seen. And then there's Turn 2 with 4 legitimate home run hitters. They just out-powered (and outhit) everyone.
Oct. 11, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
220 posts
Doormans Quote>

"We use nuclear powered bats, we hit super balls, we have unlimited pinch runners, plus players get to hit and they dont need to play the field...ever. Obviously the game is geared for hitting HR's. Why do the homerun hitters need another advantage"?

I remember one of my first posts on this board a couple years ago was almost word for word what you wrote. I might have added the word "WHAM-O"

YES, I am a fan of the one up rule too if used correctly.

I guess for tournaments with big brackets, & time schedules to meet, & trying to get the 8:30PM game to start before 11PM-------homers in tournaments over the limit should "probably" be outs to get the game moving.

9 homers over the limit would be the equivalent of three innings of "OUTS" which would either deter teams from hitting at will, or get the games simply over quicker.

Oct. 11, 2012
tucsondoubleplay
6 posts
I have been playing AAA and up for the last 10 years and have never seen a AAA team hit any where near 18 home runs in any game even with a toronado like wind blowing out. How they got in AAA had to be a screw-up.
Oct. 11, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
220 posts
Tuscon: I've seen it in AAA----it happens. Live balls and bats on 300 fences. Guys get hot, pitcher grooving balls, wind blowing even slightly out, guys don't care and swing away because worse that can happen is, its a "walk"

Make those over the limit = outs, you won't see that many or even close.

I love SSUSA, but another association has a lot of tournaments (not all) on 325 fences----which most complexes don't have. 325 fences can equalize a lot of the long balls to equate to long outs.
Oct. 11, 2012
tucsondoubleplay
6 posts
A legimate AAA team doesn't hit 18 hrs in one game in Las Vegas or any other place.
Oct. 11, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
I can not believe there is ANY AAA team in the WORLD that have enough guys that KNOW HOW to hit a ball over the fence 18 times in a game.
Even when you have the power and knowledge few people can hit a ball out of the park on a high percentage basis.
Oh Well, a heck of a AAA team.
Oct. 11, 2012
Allan55
80 posts
Retired63, I agree with you. I disagreed with the associations when they agreed to count homeruns as walks after reaching the limit. All divisions (AA, AAA, and Major) should have all homeruns over the limit count as outs. That is the only way to promote upward movement.
Oct. 12, 2012
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Retired63 ... Couldn't agree with you more ... We played a AAA team in LV who hit 8 out and 6 more lasers off the wall ... There were a number of teams who were similar ... Too many sandbaggers ... Outs are the only way to actually penalize sandbagging teams, and make them at least think about moving up to the next level voluntarily ... Making them walks are a joke.

#19
Oct. 12, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Who is the sandbag god? can't guys who just turned 50 play AAA, how do you determine who's sandbagging?
Oct. 12, 2012
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
5Tools ... It's not hard to determine sandbaggers ... For example, if you are playing AAA which allows 3 home runs, and your team is hitting 8, 9, 10 balls out of the park, there is a good chance your team is sandbagging ... See how easy that was?

#19
Oct. 12, 2012
local
128 posts
The team that won the 60 AAA hit 2 Hr's against us and although I did not watch all their games I don't believe they hit more than 3 in any one game. They were just a very Good team. The team we lost to hit 2 hr's. I think we average 6 hr a game.

The ball traveled. One of our smaller players hit his first ever HR on his birthday. So who is sandbagging ? 3 Hr's and the rest walks. Walks are less valuable than a single because no runner advanced.

I will you tell you this, more players than not have to change their swing if hitting the ball too hard results in an out. Many times they end up going up the middle. Yes I know what your thinking! They are not trying to hit the pitcher they are trying to get a hit.

There is more to winnning softball than hitting HR's just like there is more to golf than hittng the long drive.

Maybe SSUSA should evaluate the players on AAA teams. If they played college ball and above they should be Major or Major plus. Does a great Shortstop stay at AAA and not Major because he can't hit Hr's ??

This subject always pisses me off (obviously).Let's punish the guy that stays in shape and workouts in the off season so he can play his best (sometimes) each summer.
Oct. 12, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Something kind of sad that everyone just wants to point to home runs as the one and only factor in determining how good a player or team are. Sure they have always been a significant part of the game, but to this degree?

Anyone remember the days of basehitting? Baserunning? Defense? Fundamentals?
Oct. 12, 2012
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Local ... Played against the team that won 60AAA in other tournaments ... Yes, they are a very good team without hitting a bunch of homers ... The team that played against them just ran out of gas and are a legitimate Major team ... If your team is averaging 6 hrs a game, you shouldn't be playing AAA, IMHO ... I have never seen a study indicating that anyone goes up the middle if they can't hit home runs.
Oct. 12, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Any game where hitting a homerun equals an out is not for me. Do whatever, but punish good hitting, what is that . The hot bats in seniors seemed to be allowed to help weaker hitters, now what the weak hitters seem to want is to get rid of strong hitters. Change the bats, fields, whatever but punish good hitting? Feels like Soviets type communism. We already kicked that butt.
Oct. 12, 2012
local
128 posts
#19, I said many times a hitter that changes his swing ends up going up the middle. There is no study ? It's just the way it is. Yes we average 6 hr's a game at this tournament. I said " the ball traveled" others agreed. Our smallest player hit the only HR of his life. In fact he started to run all of the bases because he had never been there before.

When you really "study" this it comes down to this. We hit 3 Hr's a game and the rest were one base, no advancing the runner singles ! Where is the advantage to that ? How does that make us a Major team ? We didn't even place in the top 6.
Oct. 12, 2012
5ToolsinOhio
Men's 50
160 posts
Hey#19 Thanks, My sandbagging point is this, some think example that Tm50 is a AAA hitter and some think he is a Major hitter who or what determines what class a player is?...the word sandbagging is for cry babies just like shaved sticks until there is a solution for either its all hot water..to many classes/divisions games that mean nothing or they say seeding, i don't know whats wrong with the old school double elimination format.
Oct. 12, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
220 posts
^^^^5ToolsinOhio and I played in a AAA Tournament in early summer. A team run ruled us and knocked us into losers bracket in the first round-------I don't know how many HR's they hit for walks that (after the one up rule), but it was double digits. THAT DAY they seemed like they belonged in Major?

The next day they lost a game and we played them again, and under nowhere near the same circumstances, and THEN we beat THEM to advance to championship round. Both teams struggled to get to 3HR's late in the game and then it went to the one up rule.

In the Championship Game we got killed, probably lost by 25 runs to another team that had double digit dingers for walks. It was like a merry go round-----it made me dizzy.

That same team in another tournament didn't do diddly with homers. Very nice team, but I think they are in the right place in AAA (just my opinion, overall for entire season?)

There is more to AAA and all the divisions than homers. Our team can get hot and start hitting a homer barage too--------BUT---------we have defensive issues and will go in spurts where nobody can make a play--------& we'd get destroyed in "many" major games, and some other AAA teams I see, would be in the same boat as us.

ALL BEING SAID, I'd like to see a one up rule BUT if you go over the limit and the other team has not matched you yet, then they (HR's) should be outs-------it would help speed up some play
Oct. 12, 2012
JamesLG
303 posts


I agree with Local on this one 100%. Just because a team gets hot and hits a bunch out of the park does not make them a major team. We have been on both sides of these games and it is just part of senior softball. I bet that guy who hit his first HR had a day he will never forget. What is wrong with that?

Thanks:

James
Oct. 12, 2012
local
128 posts
JamesLG, Your are correct. It was the hit he will always remember. We all signed the ball for him and bought him a soda and hot dog like our dad would if we hit one out during our little league games.
Oct. 12, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
BS
The "B" means BULL hope U are smart enough to guess the S

Any team that can hit 18 HR's in a game is not at the low level of AAA.

I have played with and against the guys on the SPA list of IMPACT PLAYERS.... Normal guys do not just all gell and start banging HR's... again BS
Oct. 12, 2012
local
128 posts
I don't think we have every played against a AAA 60's team that hit 18 hr in one game. We have 3 or 4 players that can dong it. They don't always do it in the same game but there are times when it does happen. We have never had a double digit home run game. I consider us "normal guys". I
Oct. 13, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
220 posts
I also want to clarify the instances I mentioned in my posts above were (50)AAA, not 60's
Oct. 13, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
220 posts
All I know is we (Familystones Hawaii) won the 50s AAA w/out hittn 18 hrs in a game! I never saw this team nor did they make it to the final games....Aloha, Fabe
Oct. 13, 2012
Freddie
Men's 55
108 posts
I've been with SSUSA for the last 10 years & we have always played AAA. With the new rule change this year, I have never seen teams from top to bottom that could hit so many h/r's. AAA use to be for teams that did not belong in AA because they were better fielders and base hitters, very seldom did you see a team hit their limit of 3. In Vegas, the teams in 60 AAA that were hitting more than 3 h/r's could of been contenders to win the Majors because they played good defense & had 5-6 players that could hit the long ball. In my 10 yrs, we all had the same weather conditions, used the same balls & bats & I never have seen the loopsided advantage that the new rule brought to AAA.
Oct. 13, 2012
ffdonnie
Men's 50
95 posts
Really? Guys things change. There is ALOT more seniors playing now, if you haven't noticed. The level of play is going to improve. Ball players are going to be faster, stronger, and in some cases smarter. It's not the same game it was 10 years ago, clearly. The one thing that stays the same is consistency. Weather it's top to bottom of your order, or of individuals. You are going to see guys that hit the ball a long ways in AAA now, but if only a few of them in the line up do it there probably not a major team. There's still a big difference between majors and AAA. I play on a good AAA team and we were bumped to majors for a short time this year, we got killed up there. We don't have a consistent line up top to bottom.
It's still only three and then singles. That keeps just about everyone in the game. Do what you do well and don't worry about everyone else.
Oct. 14, 2012
Doorman
35 posts
I dont think the level of play has increased, but there are more teams. I dont see anyone getting faster or stronger as we age.

In LV the balls really fly in the dry climate and the wind. Maybe the ball was too lively for that type of tournament.

A few of the teams I was watching in LV were definitely not your average 50AAA team. I was watching a team that was filled with huge guys that were hitting HR after HR. There was one guy we referred to as Shaq. We watched him hit 5 HR's in a game, plus they had 3 other guys that hit multiple HR's.

SS needs to do a better job of gauging the talent of each team and do a better job of putting teams in the correct division. Somehow there are teams that get loaded with HR hitters. I think SS needs to keep records of HR's including the HR's that are walks.

Bottom line: Any AAA team that hits 18 in one game are sandbaggers and they should get moved up. If teams are consistently hitting 5-8 HR's per game then I think they are a majors team. Teams that hit 3-5 HR's should be AAA.
Oct. 14, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
220 posts
Door...u keep bringin this team up, but I never saw them nor did they win the 50AAA...we did! Aloha, Fabe
Oct. 15, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Doorman, so homers are the only gauge of both players and teams? That is all you keep mentioning. The rest of the sport, you know things like defense, basehitting, and baserunning, mean nothing?
Oct. 15, 2012
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Gary19 ... You can't play defense against balls hit 350+ feet.
Oct. 15, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Very true. But you can minimize the damage done by the balls that aren't. And you can basehit to make up for them.

I know they are a part of the game, and an artifically large part with the special bats. But I just think it is kind of sad if that is all guys and teams are judged by.

Galloway was an outstanding fielder. Macenko a terrific 2B. Ford and Nye were very good defensively. Elliott a helluva pitcher, as was Arndt.

While I know many were very one-dimensional, the history of the game does have a number of home run hitters who did much more than just that. And did it well.
Oct. 15, 2012
southernson
260 posts
Let's see, with no one on base, and 9 home runs that are walks, that's uh....6 runs. Are we really crying about 6 runs from walks via HR's?Stop, stop it now.

HR's as OUTs is a psychotic thought process and SSUSA corrected that by making them walks....as they should be. Let it go....
Oct. 15, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
As long as homeruns are a major part of the criteria to place teams into or limit divisions because of the numbers of homeruns hit, this is always going to be a problem. Years ago, when we were all younger, the associations had directors at every tourney played. This changed when complexes starting going up & more tourneys were being held and directors were not at these parks watching the games. It became a money grab for the complexes and it made the directors jobs easier because they did not have to be at the park, because the complexes were running the tourney themselves. Directors could see who were the teams playing above, below or in the correct divisions and rectify that during or most likely after that tourney was completed. The only thing most of these associations know about your team or teams now, have they have paid the money. JMO
Oct. 15, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Pro baseball doesn't allow metal or composite bats like college and lower levels, softball needs to control the bats at higher levels. As the senior game improves the controls must be adjusted. When you have so many homeruns that they start being called outs or walks or whatever, then its time for a change at that level. Get real, this is obvious. The majors don't need senior bats, and it may be the AAA don't. Lets have some pride and give up the crutches. Be proud you still don't need a senior bat.
Oct. 15, 2012
Robo2
223 posts
I respectfully disagree with the issue of making them outs. I do not hit that many but when I do, it makes no sense to be an out. In fact if we made they unlimited, the good teams would move up faster instead of being held back due to a rule that restricts or hides there abilities. Let's face it, I believe, the majority of teams will not move up on there own. so allowing unlimited HRs will allow for quicker and easier separation of ability. It will also get the game over quicker because the 5 run inning will get over quicker.

I understand some of the different issues mentioned here but I do not see the solution of going back to calling a 55 or 60 yr old person out for hitting a ball over 300 feet. I do not see our team or teams we have faced have the ability to hit HR whenever they want. I would like to see the power teams move up quicker and I don't want power hitters coming back up the middle trying to avoid an out by slaming a ball intentionally low.
Oct. 15, 2012
SSUSA Staff
1268 posts
Doorman - The Official Game Card for SSUSA sanctioned events contains an area for umpires to record all balls hit out of the park in fair territory by each team, whether or not they are scored as a Home Run or a walk. This information is tabulated after each event and becomes a part of the subjective criteria used by the National Rating Committee when evaluating any team's present or proposed rating level within their age group.
Oct. 15, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Our generation has changed as much or more than the younger one's. Self-gratification! If anyone on here ever thought that "I understand some of the different issues mentioned here but I do not see the solution of going back to calling a 55 or 60 yr old person out for hitting a ball over 300 feet" would even be in a softball discussion amongst ourselves 30 years ago, I'll be the first to call you a liar. If your going to have a homerun rule, then they should be outs after the limit has been met. If not, it's not worth even talking about. That's why we insist on playing in complexes with fences, so we can feed the egos. We can end all this talk be taking a tourneys to open fields. Egos would be in check after the first 420 bombs is snapped off for an out.
Oct. 15, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
When a AA team hits 6+ homeruns in a game they should be moved to AAA for at least 2 years.
When a AAA hits 9+ homeruns in a game they should be moved up to MAJOR on the spot......

That will teach them to do that.
Oct. 15, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
The biggest problem with that, Pricer, is that every gapper becomes a loooonnngg 4 bases to run and someone has to go get the ball no matter how far it rolls.Plus if you play far enough back to 'snap off' a 420 foot shot, anything in front of you drops for 2 or 3 bases.
I have stated before I would be happy to go back to alloy bats like the Orange crush and a 47/525 ball. When the composites came out, they were even trying to ban that combo. Really, I would play with any combo. Just love the game.
Oct. 15, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
Seems simple, no senior bats for the level of play that they are obviously inappropriate. Any time you are wanting to call a homerun anything other than a homerun, at that level the the homerun is inappropriate. I love hitting a homerun, but it should have meaning. Lets stop acting like grown men wanting to hit homeruns in a little league park. Leave the senior bats for those who need them. Man up. Make the game more than homeruns.
Oct. 15, 2012
CAPT D5
124 posts
To add on the previous post. The bats are inappropriate when they cause homeruns to be considered other than homeruns. Many of us are addicted to the senior bat. The feel is great. But if it hurts the game there is a problem to address. We can make field changes to keep the bat if its so important. Thats my preference, I like the challenge of the hot shots, but the bases must be moved back for the infielders. There is probably only a problem with the senior bat at the higher levels. One of the bat sellers told me, to promote his bat, of hitting homeruns in over half of his at bats in a major tournament with the bat he was selling. Later he posted, promoting his bat, of how great the bat hit and said he wasn't even that good. The bat sellers are making money, some players are feeling great hitting the hot bats, so the bat is likely to stay, just hope some common sense is applied at the higher levels. Its can be a better game for more than homeruns if thats what the majority want. This just one opinion and enough has been said, out of respect for other opinions.
Oct. 15, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
Question, I have not seen teams that hit HR HR HR, etc


Now Fabe won the championship in the bracket that had a team that hit 18 HR's.....

FABE said he did not see that team.

I think that team is madeup figmate of your imagination.

I played in the SPA Nationals in Dalton Ga with 50's, 60's and my bracket 70's and I only saw 1 ball hit out of the park for a HOMERUN............

The guy that hit it was 70 years old. Where were the 50's that hit HR HR HR HR like this thread talks about?????

I think it is a bunch of BS BS BS BS...

HEY Fabe, back in the 90's a bunch of your Islanders hosted my old team Beeline from Tulsa in your homes to come over and play some softball, .. They were great people and what that did for our team can not be covered with words.

James
Oct. 15, 2012
Doorman
35 posts
SSUSA Staff: Thanks for the info about the card. Does the umpire also list the player that hit the HR or just the quantity of HR's hit per team?
Oct. 15, 2012
Doorman
35 posts
Gary19: homers are not the only gauge of an individual players strength, but it is a huge component when determining a teams strength.

I know this might come as a surprise to you, but the HR is the greatest weapon in softball. It is such an important part of the game that SS has put limits on how many HR's teams can hit in each game.

SS has spent countless hours analyzing it and debating the HR rules and I think they got it wrong. In AAA it should be 3 HR's, then the 1 up rule, then outs.



Oct. 15, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
GUYS, 6 hr's and 9 hr's are the way to move teams up on the spotl. What do you not understand??? Do you not have any sense???

Every now and then someone will hit an HR.
That is OK.

18 HR's are not reality.. Unless you are at least M+.

Get Real. CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCc
Oct. 15, 2012
NWHits
1 posts
Honestly, I would like less HRs per game or adding another division that caters to defense and speed (yeah, I know some call that AA - ha!).

Don't get me wrong, if a guy can hit 5 out, I say GOD bless him, but let him do it a higher level of play. There is no luck involved when someone hits more than two out in a game, so teams know that they should be playing up.

The enhancements in bats and liberal substitution rules have made this game geared towards the HR hitter. It should be of no surprise that teams are loading up on this talent, while avoiding playing at the higher levels. Some say this is what needs to be done in order to remain competitive, but is that really true? Or has the system created a potential nightmare in the years to come?

Oct. 16, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
220 posts
James glad to hear you experience some Island Aloha! Just was checking our stats...we hit a few, maybe 6 or 7 was the most we hit in one game....but 18! Wish we could've played that team, to see how we would stack up.. Aloha, Fabe
Oct. 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Doorman, I don't think so either, but it is all you read about on here.

And it is only a huge component because people choose to make it huge and ignore literally all the other areas of the game. Maybe because it is the easy way out just to count homers instead of actually having to understand and evaluate the play.

Just because SS decided to do that doesn't give it importance. They did not invent the sport, just make money off of it. Could just be that they took the easy way out (see paragraph above).
Oct. 16, 2012
neck10
498 posts
I guess you will play hockey with out a net????????????????????????
Oct. 16, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Hockey was never played without a net. Baseball/softball started out without fences. Lame excuse or try at making light of my example. Did you not play without fences early in your career? Is that only reason you play? Pride can not only be a good thing, it can create problems sometimes if you can't swallow it at times.
Oct. 16, 2012
local
128 posts
Let's take this whole issue one more step. What happens to the poor guy that can hit home runs and according to some of you needs to play Major if there are no major teams within 500 miles of where he lives?

In the great Northwest there is (1) Major 60's team, Ruth. So you want this guy to play major because he hits the ball too hard. Where is he suppose to play ? Should he play with his friends for the enjoyment of the game or should he travel to California to be with a team of people he does not know ? Or we can just call him out if he hit's the ball too hard. That really makes sense.

Leave the HR rule alone it wasn't a deal breaker at Worlds for the 60's. 3 hr's and the rest are walks.
Oct. 16, 2012
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
399 posts
This is an interesting topic and I agree with Local, leave the HR rule alone. The 3-HR rule was not a deciding factor in any of the 11-games we played in Vegas or any other tournament this year at 60 AAA.
Oct. 16, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
my take is,if ya want to hit hrs move up....AA,AAA should have limits with outs over the limits,the walk rule promotes sandbagging.teams that hit more than 5 hrs at those levels need to be moved up,18 hrs hit is just ridicules...ya want to be a big boy move up...
another thing is the "i have to hit middle when hrs are gone",that is pure bs,learn to hit then...
Oct. 16, 2012
BobLaser
Men's 50
38 posts
There are alot of good points. Our team is built on speed and defense but we do have some power. Not as much as alot of the elite teams but we had fun.I definitely see how the home runs after 3 being singles would draw the big power teams but I like playing them. Of course, I prayed for the wind to blow in(jk). I also wish they would make it easier for more teams to get in double A instead of letting them get pounded and 5 and out every year.
Oct. 16, 2012
littleguy1
Men's 50
8 posts
As a player who is not a homerun hitter by any means, I could care less what the homerun limit is. However, if you set a limit and make a rule, going over the limit and breaking that rule should have consequences. Makeing HR's over the limit "walks" does nothing to "punish" the team that goes over the limit. An earlier post said that 9 HR's with no one on was only 6 runs, true. But if they were not walks, it would be 9 outs or 3 innings and chances are you will lose that game.
My experience is that the better hitters don't always hit HR's they also can base hit with anyone.
Oct. 16, 2012
southernson
260 posts
So the wind is 25-30mph blowing out....

Do we now have "wind rules"? A team hits 6 home runs in AAA....You guys still want to move them up??? Please....

SSUSA, leave this one alone, you have it correct as it is....

Oct. 16, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
6 HRS IN AAA IS DEFINITELY NOT THE THING TO DO, 3 AND OUTS LIKE IT USED TO BE WILL STOP THE SANDBAGGERS FROM DROPPING DOWN,THERE WERE TO MANY TEAMS HITTING THE 3HRS AND USING THE WALKS IN VEGAS,CAN'T DEFENSE A BALL OVER THE FENCE..THERE IS A REASON TO HAVE UPPER AND LOWER DIVISIONS....3 AND OUTS IN AAA IS VERY REASONABLE....IF YA WANT TO HIT THEM OUT,MOVE UP....
Oct. 16, 2012
littleguy1
Men's 50
8 posts
I don't care if they move up or not. That is not the point of my post. If you break the rules, you get punished. Over the limit should be an out not a free base.
I am not talking about one game with the wind blowing out 25-30 mph but if you have a TEAM that can hit an average of 6 to 9 hrs a game, why would you want to play AAA where there is a limit of 3?
Oct. 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
littleguy, perhaps that team doesn't play very good defense, has a questionable pitcher, and/or and is a bunch of slow baserunners. Consequently, they are not really very good ballplayers and don't belong in Major.

There just is much more to the game than simplistically looking only at home runs.
Oct. 16, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
220 posts
Good point Gary19....Our games werent affected by the HR rule...In my opinion making a walk out of a Homer is punishment. I would leave the rules as is concerning this rule. Vegas appeared to have gone well under this rule. Aloha, Fabe
Oct. 16, 2012
littleguy1
Men's 50
8 posts
Gary19. Your last statement is correct. There is much more to the game than hr's. However, there are no limits on base hits, walks, fast players, or good defensive plays. There are restrictions on HR's.
IMO, go over the limit and it should be an out.
Oct. 16, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Maybe there should be limits on many or all of those too. Why are only home runs singled out? To classify players or teams based only on homers is just a lazy way to evaluate talent and ability.
Oct. 16, 2012
littleguy1
Men's 50
8 posts
I would only classify teams based on wins and losses. Individual classification, to me, is pointless. It is a team game.
Oct. 16, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
Pricer-I was neither making excuses nor making light of no fences, but also back then when we played with no fences we had wood bats-big difference. 4 outfielders cannot cover the outfield with no fences against these bats.
Oct. 16, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
I've been playing M+ for a year now and have not seen the huge HR derbies people talk about. I don't think we hit the 12 all year, and we had as much power as anyone in our division. The big innings were the result of a lot of hits more than HR's. Crusher-we did hit 5-7 a game in Dalton, but you really had to hit it to get it. No cheapies there. When you have Steve Imlay, Mike Adair, and Fred Purvis in the middle of the lineup-you can see HR's any time. But it never got crazy.
Oct. 16, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
Webbie -- Thanks for letting me know your team hit 5-7 HR's in Major+

I like seeing hr's.Wish I could have seen some of your games.

It was difficult to put one out of the park at Dalton.

The conditions seemed ok.
Oct. 16, 2012
jrd231
17 posts
What a bunch of cry babies!! We are a 65 AA team and we have four guys who can hit them out, but we are allowed to have ONE and then an OUT! Why allow hot bats, hot balls, and tournaments in higher elevations? It is pure torcher for those guys. So guys, we are the lowest division and yet we get ONE homerun only while all you guys complain about your three, nine, ten, and a zillion homeruns that you hit. Please!
Oct. 16, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
Hey jrd231 , to comfort your 4 major players so they do not feel bad, make them use alum or wood bats.
When I played AA any ball out of the park was an out, you now have it so good.
Oct. 16, 2012
jrd231
17 posts
Crusher, these are not major players just because they can hit one out once in a while. I have hit eight to ten out per year and I am a little guy, but certainly not a major player. Whatever happen to good defense, base running etc etc etc. Seems as though all that is talked about are homeruns. A major player to me is one that can hit for high average, play solid defense and make very few mental errors. What is your take on what a major player is?
Oct. 17, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1981 posts
jrd-if you have 4 that can hit them out and it is torture to hit, then maybe you need to move up to AAA and 3 homers per game.
So as not to hijack the thread-why don't you start one about what it takes to be a major player? We have done it before but there are many different views. It might be a good topic.
Oct. 17, 2012
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
Since everyone is giving their opinion I will jump in with mine. Why not have a 3 Home Run Rule (in AAA) with a 1 up provision. If a team exceeds the "1 up" the ball hit over the fence is a DBO. That way, if weather conditions (i.e.winds )are affecting the number of Home Runs or you have 2 teams who are both hitting a lot of balls over the fence, neither team is going to have an advantage. Personally, I don't like the "3 home runs then a walk" rule. That rule definitely favors AAA teams that have more power than the average AAA team.
Oct. 17, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Webbie, my comment (Hockey was never played without a net. Baseball/softball started out without fences. Lame excuse or try at making light of my example.) was directed towards someone else. I've learned not to give much of an opinion without using facts on here anymore. By the way, it's starting to cool down here in the mitten!
Oct. 17, 2012
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
399 posts
Whenever leftyodoul makes a comment it seems to make sense...
Oct. 17, 2012
jsheeran
Men's 50
41 posts
AAA 3 home run rule and then an out is the way to go. Maybe up it to 4 home run rule and then an out. If you make it a walk after the home run limit is met then the game becomes home run derby. If I wanted to play home run derby then I'd enter a home run derby contest. If the home run limit is met then hit a damn single, double, triple or walk. I have no interest in giving up my weekend to play home run derby games. I'll stay home in the pool thank you very much.
Oct. 17, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
220 posts
jsheeran: I am just asking, do you play with KSheeran out of Michigan with Pricer?

I don't agree or disagree with 3 or even if it went to 4 homers in AAA, but if you are part of the KSheeran team, well, that team can hit an awful lot of homers, and have indeed hit them for multiple walks against us in the past. (And lots of them)

I'm just guessing on your log in name----but I've seen KSheeran do the "home run derby" thing themselves.

I am probably more in favor of three and then "one up" as lefty says above.

That would help level the rules if the wind is outbound or playing with a short porch.

You can be at a tournament where one field wind is blowing out and the one behind your backstop is blowing in------

I do not agree with fair balls being outs.
Oct. 18, 2012
jsheeran
Men's 50
41 posts
17Black - yes I play SS for KSheeran. We played you in the SPA Buckeye Classic with 3 home runs and one up rule. This was our first time at this tournament and it was advertised online as a AAA with SPA rules only to find out when we got there that HO had the rule at 3 and one-up, so we had to play by the rules. If we had known this ahead of time we probably would not have attended this tournament. HO has since told me that this tournament next year will be 3 and an out. Yes our team can hit home runs. But we play the 3 and out because we do not want to play home run derby games. We want to play games where players need to get on base other than with homers. We want to play defense and not just turn our heads, stand there and watch balls go over the fence. Again, if I wanted to play home run derby I'll enter a contest. Hope this helps.
Oct. 18, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Why 3 HR's, it seems low. Sure they went overboard this year letting it turn into "homerun derby" as some say, but the majority of AAA teams that I see can hit 3 HR's easily. Put it somewhere in between where it is now and where it was, that is probably the best solution. Everyone has their limit on where they would like to see it. Progressive gets a bit confusing at times, but does keep teams in check when one has way more power than another.
Oct. 18, 2012
17Black
Men's 50
220 posts
jsheeran" Thanks----you guys have a real nice team, certainly one of the best AAA teams in the upper midwest for sure!!!! (Hitting and Defense & a couple good pitchers too)

I've also played against you in SSUSA in Lansing last year, and somewhere else in the past too.

BTW------"YOU" are one of the best shortstops I (we) have every played against!!!!

Good Luck and look forward to playing against you again down the road!!!
Oct. 18, 2012
jsheeran
Men's 50
41 posts
17Black - Thanks for the compliments. We really like the way our team is designed. We feel your team is one of the best around as well and look forward to playing you again. Jeff S.
Oct. 18, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
220 posts
Many good thoughts here, but let me say that the HR rule was not a big factor with us winning the Vegas Worlds! (50 AAA). Thus, believe we should let it stand for now, but be open to some adjustments mentioned above. Aloha, Fabe
Oct. 18, 2012
Retired63
2 posts
Home runs were a factor in 60 AAA at Vegas. There was a large difference in power between teams. I like the idea of 3 home runs, 1 up, and then outs. That takes into account weather conditions, etc., as mentioned prior. Let the home run teams and players move up to Major or Major +.
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