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Discussion: Senior softball summit

Posted Discussion
Nov. 1, 2012
JamesLG
300 posts
Senior softball summit


Hi All:

I believe the Senior Softball Summit meeting us coming up but the only two topics i have heard rumblings on are 70' bases and possibly toning down the home run rules a bit.

Just wondering if anybody had a heads up on what the agenda is?

Thank You:

James
Nov. 1, 2012
ShaneV
Men's 55
382 posts
I'm interested in your input James, send me an email or give me a call.

ShaneV
Nov. 2, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1972 posts
I'm sure Gary19 will be there to impart all of his wisdom of the game to us and meet us personally. His intense interest in the game is a tribute to who he is. I look forward to meeting him and attending his hitting clinic..... what? He's not coming?? He lacks the cojones to meet us personally?? 36/46? Say it ain't so!!

Seriously, I am for the 70 foot bases. I think it will be as positive as the move to 65 from 60 was.

I also think they should discuss the format for worlds next year. You would assume they may push 500 teams and are working right now already to get the glitches out. I think a 2 game pool and straight double elimination for 4 game guarantee for this one event should be considered. Also, there must be a program written somewhere that can be downloaded to input results into a computer and automatically fills in the bracket. There are always growing pains, especially when you hit a growth 'spurt' like last year.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Yep, you are right. You busted me. I am soooooooooo afraid of meeting you. Glad to see you flatter yourself, at least someone is.

How will the number keep growing? Are they adding qualifiers? Oops, never mind. For a moment there I flashed back to the days when you actually had to qualify and earn your spot at Worlds, not just be willing to contribute to the association's coffers.

Nov. 2, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Webbie, for all the folks who hate when Gary19 adds his 2 cents, I think you guys must be interested in what he says or why you would awake the sleeping dog. World tourneys were never meant to be more than one representitve from each state. A winner that earned the right to do so. What did all of these teams do to earn the passage to the most important tourney of the year? All it takes is MONEY! This is no world tourney. It's not the best of the best. it's the teams with the expendandable cash. JMO
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
Pricer, just curious what other adult men's slow pitch association only takes 1 representative from each state? Has there ever been only 1 representative from each state in a men's adult slow pitch for a national tournament?
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Not sure about states, but in the 60s, 70s, and into the 80s the ASA had very clearly defined regions, and only the champ of each region qualified for worlds.

Kind of made it meaningful to get in and get to play, not just a matter of who wanted to spend some money and make a trip. Also, only double elimination, no guarantee of more than 2 games. The honor of earning your way in, and playing in a truly select field, was more than enough reason for teams to travel to play potentially only 2 games.
Nov. 2, 2012
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
I do know in ASA in the 70s'

Each State was broken down into Districts the top 2 and some Regions with larger registrations got 3 teams into the State

Then the top 2 from State went to Regional, at the regional the top 2 in Major went to National and the 3rd place team qualified for the Class A National

There were only 2 divisions in ASA at that time Major and A

And in each the Homeruns were unlimited
Nov. 2, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Well cal, I don't think any of them do anymore. But this could be why some of the softball purist don't think much of our game anymore. USSSA started the world series for each class with only teams that won qualifiers. Then it became NIT champs only. I think that number at my first WS was 16 teams. The NIT were filled with teams looking to win that berth. The money being made was made on the NIT and the WS was the prize for winning one. Now the awards for the World winners aren't much different the the ones earned at the local tourney's, but the sure is!
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
Pricer, You said that World tourneys were never meant to be more than one representative from each state. I did some quick research on the history of the associations and cannot find where any men's slow pitch had only 1 representative from each state. ASA was mostly the only game in town until the 80's. I know USSSA started before then, but not much impact on big tournaments until much later.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Garocket, perhaps in some places but not all. In the 60s, 70s, and 80s the Metro Cleveland district got their tournament winner directly to the Worlds while the runner-up got a second chance to go to regionals.

But in either event you had to win your way in, not just pay to get in. And with only a 2-game guarantee.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
cal, in the 60s and 70s many teams had NO representatives at Worlds. The fields, at least the ones I watched in the 60s and 70s, had less than 50 teams so clearly each state was not getting a team in. And that was with often 3 teams just from Ohio, since we would get the state qualifier, the Cleveland qualifier, and often a host team from this area when the tourney was either in Cleveland or Parma as it often was.
Nov. 2, 2012
stick8
1282 posts
Cal50, you should know there's a bigger, more underlying point here. When USSSA started off having world tournaments in the lower classes during early 90's the only way a team could play is if they qualified--won an NIT. The first world tournament I won was in 1994--class C. There were 32 teams that were entered--all earned a berth by winning NIT's or placing high enough in an NIT to get a berth that was passed own. The point is a team had to earn their way to play. Years later the powers at USSSA got the idea that they could make more revenue by expanding it to 64 teams, then they decided to let any registered team play. In Michigan if a team plays one NIT, states and regionals (no matter how they fare) they can enter the world tournament.
SSUSA is very similar. Play one SSUSA qualifier and your in.
As Pricer correctly stated, it's not the best of the best, but who has the most expendable cash to burn.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
stick8, Of course I know there is a bigger underlying point here. Never disagreed with that. But Pricer said never more than 1 per state and that was incorrect.

SSUSA has a tournament of champions. Only the champions who have the most expendable cash will win that one as well as you describe. I wonder what percentage of those eligible go to that one versus the world?

Why does a world tournament have to have any other qualifier than it does? SSUSA defines it pretty clearly on the qualifications to play in the world tournament.

Which is more fun and prestigious to win? The tournament of champions where just a few teams play or a tournament that is the biggest a team plays in for the year?

In the major division in Vegas more than half of the teams that played could have gotten hot and won.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Oops, I meant many states had no representation.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
cal, winning the Super Bowl is pretty prestigious, and there are only two teams in it. Reason being everyone had a shot, but only the best earn their way in.

No earning in senior softball, just paying.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
Couldn't you say the same for the USSSA conference?
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Probably. Softball seems to have very low standards these days. Much more of a business than it was when we were young.
Nov. 2, 2012
SSUSA Staff
1211 posts
Maybe it's time to clarify the term "qualifier" as it relates to SSUSA events. We require teams to play in a "qualifier" prior to participating in either the Eastern or Western Nationals or the World Masters Championships solely to allow us to 'qualify' their rating. When a team 'qualifies', we use the term in its intransitive verb definition: to exhibit a required degree of ability in a preliminary contest [Merriam-Webster Dictionary].

Frequently, certain posters seem to erroneously believe that the term 'qualify' (or 'qualifier') is synonymous with a non-existent requirement to win an interim competition in order to advance to some theoretical next phase of competition. We simply 'qualify' teams at a specific rating level in order to make a best-efforts attempt to have teams in the proper competitive level at the Eastern's, Western's and World Masters tournaments, all of which are open-entry tournaments.

Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I think we all know that you don't have to qualify in the traditional sense to play in a National, or Worlds. You just have to have the willingness and ability to pay.

Some of us lament that dumbing-down of the sport, but I guess it is what it has been allowed to become.

So if these tournaments are open-entry, just like all other tournaments throughout the year, what if anything makes them special? Or significant? Just because someone slaps a spiffy label on them?
Nov. 2, 2012
goforit
97 posts
I also liked how a team could qualify for a national tournament back in the 70's and 80's. We had to win a state tournament and then a regional tournament to get to places like Jacksonville in the early 80's. By the way that was probably the greatest most fun tournament i remember playing in when i was younger, the competition was fantastic. It seems now that all you have to do is pick a qualifier close to home go o-5 and you can go to World's if they choose. That is the rules so we live with it. I would like to see maybe the top two in each division at a qualifier get to go to World's. This would make some teams go to more then one qualifier if needed in order to get in the top two. I do realize that this also may be tough on teams if the same teams always go to the same qualifiers, i would imagine that guidelines would need to be set up for the third place team if the same two teams go 1st and 2nd mutliple times. Just my thoughts, but in reality it is nice getting to see old friends and meet new guys at these large tournaments like World's.

John Giesler
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
The obvious thing that makes them special or significant is the number of teams that participate.
Nov. 2, 2012
stick8
1282 posts
Cal50 that isn't exactly what Pricer wrote. He clearly wrote it was the intent. Many things don't work out the way they were intended to. Example being the middle hitting rule SSUSA put in a couple years ago.
Taking your questions one at a time:
SSUSA has a tournament of champions. Only the champions who have the most expendable cash will win that one as well as you describe. I wonder what percentage of those eligible go to that one versus the world?
Overall I don't exactly know. I've played the TOC twice and while for me it's a good getaway from winter weather my experience is it's mostly teams from Florida or surrounding states who play in that tournament. You'd have to research all the TOC qualifiers, who qualified, how many made the trip to Florida and figure out the percentage.

Why does a world tournament have to have any other qualifier than it does? SSUSA defines it pretty clearly on the qualifications to play in the world tournament.

SSUSA doesn't have to. Senior Softball USA is first and foremost a business. I'm sure the powers that be in SSUSA have a business plan and in order for them to survive and provide for us the game we all love play they have to be profitable. Sure it can be costly, no doubt. But no profit means no business means no games.

Which is more fun and prestigious to win? The tournament of champions where just a few teams play or a tournament that is the biggest a team plays in for the year?
I see that as an individual teams choice and individual players choice. Some may not be TOC or Vegas. Some might be Huntsman, their local qualifier or even their local league.

In the major division in Vegas more than half of the teams that played could have gotten hot and won.

Oh no doubt. You could hold the same tournament 2 weeks later and have completely different results. Wouldn't that be true in most all the divisions and levels?
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
cal, that is probably true but that only happens after the spiffy name is attached, well that and the possibility of winning the right to BUY your own ring.

Put the tourney in Dubuque as strictly a double elimination and see if 500 teams show up.
Nov. 2, 2012
stick8
1282 posts
Gary you make a valid point. I was talking on the phone yesterday to one of my teammates and he expressed a desire to play Rock-N-Reno next season. I've never played there and as I understand it it's beautiful facility. But he indicated that all the teams we see in the SSUSA worlds will be there. Logically, couldn't that be called a world or national tournament?
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Yes, it could. Hell, so could the tournament in Barberton, or at Berliner. After all, anyone in the world is allowed to come play.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I know I am getting old, but I miss the days when municipalities ran tournaments simply as part of their Recreation program. No profit motive involved.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
stick8, "World tourneys were never meant to be more than one representitve from each state." is exactly what he wrote, perhaps he intended something else, but that is exactly what he wrote.

Gary19, What point are you trying to make "Put the tourney in Dubuque as strictly a double elimination and see if 500 teams show up"

To get back to the original topic...I believe the thing that should be changed is to go to a 1 and 1 count, still too many games that don't get played in full. We played in Bridgeton MO and the tournament director made the games 50 minutes long. That should never be allowed.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Simple. That to act like that many teams are actually that interested in playing for the "prestige" of winning this "world" tournament is just a fallacy. See how many of those teams would be interested in competing for such an "honor" if they were only promised 2 games, and weren't getting to bring the wives to a place like Vegas.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
What would your point be?

I see it as a good thing that you get to play a minimum of 5 games, can bring wives and have a high competition level where if you do win, it is prestigious.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
Gary19, what is wrong with profit?
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Bottom line, it is an open tournament, just like any other.

And the first three games are essentially exhibitions, those can be played a lot closer to home for a LOT less money.

Sure, large tournaments and many games are good things. But to make the one tournament a year that should be small and selective the poster child for "look how great our participation is" doesn't make much sense.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Profit is fine, but there used to be some purity to sports. Again, I must just be getting old. Traditional values just don't seem to fit in a lot of places anymore.

And in this case the profit motive has severely changed, and in many ways hurt, the game.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
SSUSA does have a small and selective tournament, it is called the tournament of champions. The tournament makes sense to everyone I know.
Nov. 2, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
218 posts
I agree with 70' bases, it allows the defense to be a big part of the game. Those of us who participated in the Vegas Worlds know how special this event was! All I know every team we played was skilled...we won every game in the Open Inning. This was a special moment for my team (Familystones) and for Hawaii! Aloha, Fabe
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Great, then that should be it. No further need for these other "world" or "national" tournaments that are no different than any other tournament held throughout the year. Those are all just open tournaments that anyone with cash can come to.

How many Super Bowls are held each year? Final Fours? World Series?
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Fabe, how many Hawaiians even know about your team, or the tournament? That last part might have been just a weeeeee bit over the top. This wasn't Jesse Owens winning in Berlin.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
Fabe, I agree the 70' bases would be a good change.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
I think the participation level will determine when as you say "that should be it"
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Want to know the real level of interest in the softball, and not the location? Play it in Helena.

So you think there should be multiple Super Bowls throughout the year?
Nov. 2, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
218 posts
Gary we had 20 teams in various groups compete...will be in the local newspaper this week! Don't know about your region, but here even the young guns have been giving us Congrats! No exaggeration on my part! Fabe
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
Don't you think location is extremely important in anything? Anticipate where you will have the most customers and "build it there".

This is not the super bowl, this is senior softball.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Fabe, I am sure your locals do recognize it. But going as far as mentioning the entire state was just a bit much.

No Cal, not really. If the draw is big enough, teams will attend. Like I have been saying, at least a half-dozen times, perhaps closer to 10, ASA Worlds were played in Parma, Ohio in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Everyone who qualified, yes you actually had to earn the right to participate, were more than happy to come back for the chance and win. How many guys on here have heard of Parma, yet ALL the big boys came. And even some smaller boys who just wanted the chance.

It was not held to make money, or draw wives to a vacation attraction, it was held as a meaningful sporting event and that was good enough for everyone.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
It is working very well now. Times change. A person can change with the times or live in the past.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Depends on your definition, I suppose. Certainly it works well for the association.

Me, I kind of like the past. I kind of liked growing up with friends who all were still living with both of their parents, and they all had the same last name. I liked having a mother who was home when I came home from school, and I didn't have to go to day maintenance. I liked having a father who I knew, and he was there when I went to bed at night and woke up in the morning.

I kind of like records where every other word didn't have to get beeped to be played on the radio. I liked $0.35/gallon gasoline...:)

And I liked having to earn the right to participate in special tournaments, and not just buy my way in.

But maybe that is all just me.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
"Me, I kind of like the past. I kind of liked growing up with friends who all were still living with both of their parents, and they all had the same last name. I liked having a mother who was home when I came home from school, and I didn't have to go to day maintenance. I liked having a father who I knew, and he was there when I went to bed at night and woke up in the morning."
I kind of like records where every other word didn't have to get beeped to be played on the radio. I liked $0.35/gallon gasoline...:)

Who doesn't?
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I was thinking of the poor kids now who are growing up in "families" with which I am not familiar.

My point was, no not all change is a good thing. Even if some private organization is trying to convince you it is.
Nov. 2, 2012
jsheeran
Men's 50
41 posts
Stick, I played the Florida TOC in February 2011. Living in Michigan as you know, my playing season ends by early October if I play in a fall league. Trying to get playing ready in the Michigan winter for a tournament in Florida in February to compete against teams from warm weahter states that play year round is something I will never, ever do again. Have a TOC in August or early September so teams from the Cold states will still be in prime playing season and then we shall see.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
Gary19, not sure why you are making a point that not all change is good. I know of no one that thinks that way, do you?

The private organization you are talking about could not convince anyone of doing something they did not want to do. Do you really think the people on here who like senior softball are that stupid?
Nov. 2, 2012
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Sorry cal, the statement "World tourneys were never meant to be more than one representative from each state" was used to indicate a field of teams from the US that represented all of the states that registered with the association hosting the world tourney. In other words, world tourneys teams were supposed earn their entry, not given them. Their intentions were not to have world tourneys that allowed teams that had not qualified to participate. But I sure you could read between the lines, just not sure why your insisting on being anal. Everyone but you could interpret this. I like change as well, just not most of the changes where a World tourney is NOT really a world tourney. We all like softball or this conversation would not be happening. Others & I have played it for years and in my OPINION, we have removed a vital ingredients from our game, but added another. We've lost some integrity and really over emphasized money. JMO
Nov. 2, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
218 posts
Gary, every Island was represented in Vegas...thus word got out! Please dont make a comment if you never lived or cant understand Island culture! Again this was big for the Softball Community of Hawaii! In fact many players came out to support us in the final game...dats Island Style!.....Fabe
Nov. 2, 2012
stick8
1282 posts
I agree Jeff. As nice a getaway from the cold as it is it's tough to compete against teams in mid-season form when you haven't really played since October.
I recall back in the day going to Las Vegas every March to play those early NIT's. Forget about it, you couldn't compete. The teams out there were in mid-season form but come September we were also and fared much better.
I think SPA may have or is about to start up an end of the year tournament of champions. I agree it would be a better time to hold such an event. You might want to check into that for next year.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
cal, so you are saying that everyone thinks all change is good? I know that is not the case. I just pointed out a bunch of things that have changed that we both agreed aren't so good.

They should not be able to convince anyone of anything, but sadly there seems to be enough guys willing to follow along. Just think PT Barnum.

Fine Fabe, I can go along with it being big for the "Softball Community". That is fine. That just isn't what you first posted.
Nov. 2, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
No I didn't mean that about change if you took it that way, but you know that.

Like any business if the product is good you buy it. It would not survive if that wasn't the case. I would think you would know that too.
Nov. 2, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
If the product is that good you don't have 3 or 4 team brackets in a HUGE percentage of the tournaments. You don't have to combine age groups and classifcations frequently. But you know that.

If the product is that good you don't need to take it to Vegas to attract teams to what should be your premier event. But I am sure you know that too.
Nov. 2, 2012
garyheifner
360 posts
Got to Florida and getting ready to play ball and Gary 19s not.

All the above and other posts can be simply placed into two possible outcomes/solutions.

Choice 1. Enjoy senior softball with 1000s of others, as is, adjust to rule changes and play.

Choice 2. Join Gary 19 at your computer every night. Type nonsense all night long and don't play. If you chose #2, as with Gary 19, you will not be missed.

Back to the original post:

Submit your ideas to the guys in California and they will be discussed at the summit. I proposed one last year and it was apparently rejected, Never heard. But, I will try again. Rules will never be changed because one or two wackos are ranting out there. However, if a large number of "Tournament Players" contact the guys about a possible change, it might get the job done.
Nov. 2, 2012
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
419 posts
Gary Heifner,

Don't want to get this thread off track, but who are you playing with in Florida? I will be playing with the Dallas Spurs (#8) and, if you play with the team I believe you do, we will be playing each other in the RR. Let's be sure to say hello.
Nov. 2, 2012
Allan55
79 posts
Gary19, I agree with you regarding qualifying for National tournaments in the 70's and 80's. I remember having to qualify for the National in a regional tournament. Our state also received three entries. It was not an easy road to the National. There were not teams from all the states. However, a number of states didn't have teams wanting to play in the tournament. And, yes, I played in Parma, Ohio, and Burlington, North Carolina, more than a couple of times. Those were great tournaments.

I do want to add that the 50 Major tournament was the best yet. All the top teams were there, and the winner (ENR) played great. Although the tournament had some bumps in the road, this was a tournament with the best competition from the U.S. and Canada.

If people remember, the USSSA isn't too far from the SSUSA. Although you had to qualify in a NIT, I remember a number of teams finishing third, fourth, and even fifth in those tournaments and receiving berths to the World tournament, since all the teams finishing above them in the standings already earned their berths. I didn't think the USSSA World tournament was nearly as difficult to qualify for as the ASA National.

Stick8, Your friend is correct regarding Reno as being a place to play if you want to see great competition. The 50 and 55 M+ divisions had the majority of entrants that participated in Vegas. There was great competition and facilities this year.

Nov. 3, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1972 posts
Gary-you are unbelievable. To get on Fabe is a new low, even for you. Again you don't understand anything, yet you type away. I got a chance to play against Fabe and the Hawaiians last year and it was great. They were all friendly and enthusiastic. They played hard. This year they won the biggest bracket ever in SSUSA. Congratulations again to them. But for you, Gary, to say that they were 'over the top' about what it meant to Hawaii is just plain hurtful and stupid. The Islands are a lot different and closer knit and I'm betting these guys are heroes over there.And that's great. You just can't stand to see SSUSA or anybody succeed where you can't-it the game of softball. What a loser! And Congratulations again, Fabe.
Nov. 3, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1972 posts
'And I liked having to earn the right to participate in special tournaments, and not just buy my way in.'

Gary-you don't even play, who cares what you like.
Nov. 3, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
"Gary-you don't even play"

Keep on lying.
Nov. 3, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
218 posts
Mahalo Web for the great commands...was tryn to let Gary know how close Island living is! If you played in this Vegas Tourney you would know how special this was! Great time, great games and great people were involved!! Aloha, Fabe
Nov. 3, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
Hi Stick. It would be great if you guys came to the Rock n Reno next year! Although Golden Eagle is a GREAT facility, there is a chance that we would get stuck playing in Carson City or some other place. You are right that it is exactly the same teams you see at the world tournament, but the only one other than the worlds that there are enough teams at the Major+ level that it doesn't need to be combined with Major.
Nov. 3, 2012
stever
Men's 65
62 posts
I decided long ago not to respond to anything Gary19 (Dirty, etc) had to say because he is, at least in his own mind, a majority of one with the only opinion that counts. Rather than giving him any grist for his self-rightous mill it seemed more prudent to ignore him. But his attack on Fabe is over the top. It is obvious he has no knowledge of the people or culture of Hawaii. I played softball there for many years in the 80's and 90's and it truly is a close-knit community. In fact, the entire island culture is close-knit and I have absolutely no doubt that winning was a big thing there. To Fabe and his team, well earned congratulations. Hawaii no ka oi!
Nov. 3, 2012
stick8
1282 posts
Jawood it appears at this point Rock-N-Reno will be on our schedule next year. Of course funding will be a factor but hopefully we'll be able to attend.
Congrats again on Vegas and have a great winter!!
Nov. 3, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
What "attack", you bunch of women?

All I questioned was the statement that it was a "special moment for Hawaii". For his team? Of course. For the Hawaiian softball community? Sure. For the entire state, many/most of which I can't imagine know anything about his team? Just seems a bit overblown to me.

I was in Ohio in 1975 when Pyramid Cafe won the real ASA Worlds, and again in 1982 when Non-Ferrous did the same. And I am pretty sure 99.9% of Ohioans had NO ides of either team or what they accomplished.

stever, I believe that Hawaii has a close-knit softball community, but I am also guessing the vast majority on the islands don't play softball, are not part of the community, and consequently don't know or care anything about it.

Nov. 3, 2012
Fabe
Men's 50
218 posts
Gary you have no clue comparing the Islands with any other State! To call us women...well, may God continue to bless u n ur family. Aloha, Fabe
Nov. 3, 2012
JamesLG
300 posts


Fabe:

You should not even take that fool serious. He has no clue why most of us even play this game. I manage a chemical plant in Tacoma and our largest customer is BEI in Hawaii. They are like a family.

Thank You:

James
Nov. 4, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
329 posts
Fabe and others. Again you guys allow yourselves to take one persons opinion or statement and "make a mountain out of molehill".
Nov. 4, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Fabe, that comment was not directed toward you. You have not whined like the ladies have.

So you guys are telling me, and I am open to learning on this one, that Fabe's team winning AAA I believe, was truly a statewide cause for celebration amongst all the residents, not just the softball players?
Nov. 4, 2012
Mr. Manassas
227 posts
This may be crazy, but I like to play softball and these organizations provide a medium for me to do that. It provides some competition that I enjoy and the relationships with fellow players that I relish. Some tournaments are given lofty names but I don't care. What difference does it make........I think some people spend way too much time thinking of ways to complicate life.....loosen up!!!!
Nov. 4, 2012
boston
299 posts
Manassas: I agree call the things whatever you want. I just want to play ball. I just finished playing in a USSSA fall state tourney here in las cruces. Back in Sept I just played in the state championships for NM. Did I care about the name hell no. Just another chance to play ball with my son and my senior buddies against the youngsters.

Fabe: Congrats on your teams' accomplishment. The impact it had on Hawaii people can only be people understood by the from Hawaii. We can make assumptions based on our states as Gary 19 has. But that is all it is an assumption. I know when the Depserados won the TOC and they were players from Albuquerque & Las Cruces. Oops and El Paso sorry big John. lol The senior softball community in NM and El Paso were extremely proud of these guys. So were the young guys in the USSSA softball community. Personally, I couldn't care less if anyone outside my teammates and my opponents wants to know or recognizes what my team has accomplished. As long as I get the respect from those I have competed against and those who understand what it takes to play and win.

This is off topic but needs to be said. this sort of goes along the lines of what Fabe was stating about the young guys congratulating his team. When you compete as an older athlete. You do what you can to set an example for your children, grandchildren and the other youngsters that are watching. They could be 5 yrs old to 40 yrs old. We have an obligation to demonstrate to them how to play hard to win. But, how to properly conduct yourself with class, dignity and use good sportsmanship. If you play USSSA or ASA as I do it is even more important to set the standard and be the role model.

Sorry to preach to you guys because I know most men on this board understand these ideals, responsibilities and values. We as older men need to pass on.


"Stay thirsty my friends"
Nov. 4, 2012
Mr. Manassas
227 posts
Boston....Good stuff....I play because I like to play....I TRY HARD TO WIN....BUT....I respect my opponents and try to treat them the way I would like to be treated"........
Nov. 5, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1972 posts
Lying, Gary?-you have played one tournament since 2006-let's amend that-you were on one roster since 2006. Did you keep score? This isn't politics where you can lie about anything you want to lie about. We know your record. You refuse to play. You complain the brackets are too small. You complain that Vegas was too big. You run people and their accomplishments down. Why don't you just refuse to blog about the game you do not play and obviously hate so much? You would be very welcome on a political blogging site. They love people like you.
Nov. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Three in 2010, but nice try.

How many does it take to see what they are like? For me, six has been enough. For you, apparently you still haven't figured it out.
Nov. 5, 2012
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
well i guess i apparently haven't figured it out either.now you just bashed thousands of players, nice job gary.
Nov. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
How so? And what "bashing"?

Make whatever choices you want, never told you or the "thousands" of others not to. Tiny brackets with often the same teams over and over are not for me. Meaningless prelim games don't float my boat. You, and the "thousands of players", can spend your money and time however you like.

When/Where did I say otherwise?
Nov. 5, 2012
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
your exact words,How many does it take to see what they are like? For me, six has been enough. For you, apparently you still haven't figured it out.if your saying this to a man who plays alot of senior softball.so does that mean the rest of us who play haven't figured it out.i have no clue why you get on here is this your excitement for the day.sorry webbie i know you dont need me jumping in on this.
Nov. 5, 2012
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
That part is true. They are usually tiny, and if you are at all in the same geographic region it is often the same teams over and over. If you are fine with that, go for it. Just not my idea of a tournament.

And I did notice that trend pretty early on.
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