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Discussion: Which choice would Plus Champions take if Bumped like every other Division?

Posted Discussion
Nov. 28, 2012
Tim Millette
465 posts
Which choice would Plus Champions take if Bumped like every other Division?
If ALL the Plus Champions were treated much like every other Champion and given the CHOICE of.......

## returning SIX players and staying in the Plus Division they just won, or.....


## staying together and being BUMPED to the the next level (younger plus level while given five runs or an extra fielder)


Which one do you think they would choose?



Nov. 28, 2012
stick8
1238 posts
Tim, I appreciate your passion for offering ideas to help & improve senior softball. Speaking only for myself here and not to sound condescending but if SSUSA only offered the two choices you posted for teams who won major plus worlds I would not choose either one. Instead I would opt to take my team to play other associations.
Nov. 28, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
345 posts
Tim, under "Your" rules we could end up playing in the worlds against Resmondo if we kept winning worlds. I know what we should do is all go back to playing the young guys, do away with senior ball all together. LOL
Nov. 28, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
345 posts
Seriously Tim, I don't hear Plus guys on here complaining about the Plus game like you do. I'm still trying to figure out what you are trying to accomplish since you don't play Plus youself (worlds).
Nov. 28, 2012
Tim Millette
465 posts
Stick8,,,, where would you take your team?

To SPA???

Probably not because of their impact players list.... To USSSA Worlds, ASA.... Where would you go?

And honestly.... Do you really think many/mos/all of your players would not jump onto other SSUSA teams for some tourneys/worlds?

As far as I am concerned your sounding like many of the other teams that are bumped after dominating AA, AAA, Major in SSUSA but.... Most of those players always seem to find a place to land/play... And the Divisions that the Champions were bumped from have the opportunity for many other teams to enjoy playing late Sunday at Worlds.

So now.... Strait8, does that mean you great Plus players have finally seen a level your scared to move up to after to win Plus Worlds???? If that's the case.... Keep 6 and rebuild in plus or keep 3 and move down to Major.
Nov. 28, 2012
Tim Millette
465 posts
Mario.... I guess you have see not following all the crying going on with the Plus guys whining about....

# "We need Major and Plus merged".

# There are not enough Plus teams, put us in with the Major
guys".

# senior softball needs to push up the top half of Major to Plus.... It's not right we are playing in 2 or 3 team events".

# majors can beat plus teams a lot, just reduce the homeruns"

Should I go on...

Man..... It really amazes me how many "competetive" Plus guys are so scared to move up once then win Plus Worlds....I mean really..... Where is all the ... Play whoever is put in front of us bravado now?
Nov. 29, 2012
stick8
1238 posts
Tim to honestly answer your questions:
1)Yes I would take "my" team to SPA, ISSA, ISA, ASA, NSA and I'd even seek to include USSSA. There's pretty decent competition to play without the fear of being broken up if we win. I'd also look to possibly play SSUSA qualifiers within driving distance.
2)They might join other SSUSA teams if I didn't look to play SSUSA qualifiers. That's something they would be free to do.
3)I know players will find other teams to join to stay at a level after winning worlds. I'd much prefer they move up but it's a choice they make. There are rules and from what I've seen those rules are pretty well policed. Perhaps I'm different than others but if I was compelled by your choices and I was not one of the six players my team kept it would be tough because there aren't many major plus or major teams for me to choose from where I'm at. It's much easier in young mans ball because of more teams to select from and not having bordering states rules.
I just don't see the point of mandating that if a major plus team wins SSUSA worlds they literally have to be split apart to stay playing major plus.
Yes I'd like to see more teams in major plus but the way it is now isn't necessarily broken. jmho
Nov. 29, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
706 posts
Tim so you now want Melissa Rycroft, latest DWTS winner, to only dance against professionals. Say it ain't so. I mean really she only won once, does that mean she can come back and dance again, but can't dance with Tony. I am appalled and at a loss.
Nov. 29, 2012
Tim Millette
465 posts
Mike, sorry...this is a discussion about SSUSA Plus ball...can't compare oranges to no Adams APPLES...

Now....can you tell me why you think SSUSA bumps the AA AAA MAJOR Champions every year?

Using Plus mindset...souldnt they be allowed to stay together in the Division they just won? According to Plus guys....they are not to strong...it's just everyone else has to work a little harder.

Nov. 29, 2012
softball4b
Men's 60
706 posts
See you can be funny.

You got me on the bumping issue, you have to ask them.

I just know when you get to the top floor unless they build another floor you can't go any higher.
Nov. 29, 2012
Tim Millette
465 posts
I am funny all the time...or is that goofy?

What it comes to Mike is...for some reason the Dynasty Plus teams seem entitled to dominate a Division and cannot see that that Dynasty mindset is keeping to program from increasing team participation.

The only good thing about all this discussion is ..... It's ended all the crying from Plus guys whining about merging Major..... It's amazing what the few Dynasty Plus teams would rather play 2,3,4,5 team events then ever think about watering worn their teams a little to make a healthier program....self entered at its best....

Heaven forbid those great Plus Competetors every compete with guys a few years younger then them because their ...that's to dangerous...lol
Nov. 29, 2012
garyheifner
334 posts
Tim

I am not in your caliber of play. But my AAA team was bumped from AA. We had the same choice to make. We decided to stay together, as we have been together since 2002 and go for it. I believe we were 2-11 in championship bracket play this year at ring tournaments. We faired a little better in prelims as our opponent always batted 14-18 guys but got down to the top 10 or 11 in championship bracket play. Fielded a lot of batting practice for other teams. It is the nature of the beast.
Your choice is to hang in there if you like playing with your current team. If not, and getting crushed at tournies next year would not be fun, break up and reform.
Nov. 29, 2012
Malo37
52 posts
I promised myself I would stay out of this, but then again I promised myself I would quit playing ball and I just can't cure the softball sickness..... I also have to say my one final piece so here goes......

NO WAY should any team be required to break up. PERIOD!!!!! This is fun! What makes it fun is competing against the best with people that you really care about, my brothers from other mothers! If someone made our team break up I'd rather not play than have to retool This isn't a job it's fun. If teams don't want to play against the best competition then don't!! No one forces any manager or sponsor to play in a tourney against better competition. This post is unbelieveable, there's just one person complaining about the plus division and he doesn't even play in it. Our team is a 50 major team and we enjoy playing against the +division when given the opportunity. Tim before you say (again), why don't we join the plus division, that's our decision not yours. However, we're happy to compete with them. Get off the soapbox, just because you say it, doesn't make it right. Now I'm done!!!

Dave Quiroz. #37
Arizona Elite
Nov. 29, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Dave-of course you like playing plus teams-you handed us our butt on a platter 3 times in Prescott and we didn't even give you a game. (I was on GSF)I think you need to be broken up because of the 'Prescott Dynasty' you have established! LOL

Tim-you are really starting to sound like you are jealous of the guys who have been able to establish a dynasty. I would love to be a part of a dynasty, but I sure don't begrudge those who have done it. I still say let them stay together and we are coming after you!

Nov. 29, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
345 posts
Tim, the only "CRYING " I'm hearing is you.
Bring on anybody you want to play and we'll play you. I didn't make these rules, I just have to live by them. Look above at all the Plus guys response......its pretty much a given. We don't think its broke. Yes we would like more teams to play, but its no different than it was back in the day. I personally don't think they should make anybody move up if they win Worlds, but there again I don't make the rules. Just for your information we have tried to get some young guys to play us old guys in unlimited hr's here around our place and we could not get any takers. So age doesn't matter to most of us. We play Senior ball because we can and we can hit bunches of hr's and compete against others that want to do the same.
Nov. 29, 2012
JDub
Men's 50
131 posts
I just want to AXE a few Questions:

1) When & Where are Dem Damn Yankees gonna Move UP ? ? ?

2) When & Where are Dem Damn ResMando Sod Boys gonna Move UP ? ? ?

3) When & Where was Cassius Clay supposed Move UP ? ? ?

4) When you were a Kid and Played King of Da Hill, When & Where were you supposed to Move UP ? ? ?

5) If you're on Top of Da World or Pyramid, When & Where are you supposed to Move UP ? ? ?

Arizona Elite has Played 2 Seasons now, and has Not Won a True World Championship . . . Yet! However, we are Not "Escared" to Play the Best of the Best, cuz in the end it will make us Better! Who knows, we just might Win a Championship or 2, but that won't make us a Dynasty (IMHO) ! ! !


Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite
Nov. 29, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
975 posts
You sure beat a dead horse Timmy, you're worst than Einstein! In fact I think you have become him and only post under your TM name!
Nov. 29, 2012
donll
55 posts
Tim does not care about the health of the plus program. He is only trying to weaken it because he is afraid he will have to play in it. And more importantly he is worried that if he is reclassified to Plus, he will have to GIVE runs rather than receive in all the local tournaments and play the Longhorns and East Bay straight up. It will be hard for him to continue his local tournament Dynasty Team. Which incidentally should be broken up anyway according to his logic.
Nov. 29, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
975 posts
I say all the major plus teams petition to get MTC in the Major plus league and teach Timmy a lesson! ;-)
Nov. 29, 2012
donll
55 posts
Tim,
There were 99 teams combined in the 50 worlds this year. There were 7 in Plus. So your finish at 3rd in the major division, would place you 10th overall among the 99 teams. Where do you think you belong? Where would you draw the line to divide the divisions? If there were 3 divisions would you take the top 30? The top 25? How would you divide them? I would like to hear how you think those 99 teams should be divided into divisions?
Nov. 29, 2012
Mario
Men's 50
345 posts
Malo37, JDub , Swing , donll thank you very much !!!!!!!
Nov. 29, 2012
Tim Millette
465 posts
Jeff, the Yankees have a salary cap.

The Major type ResmOndo teams are killing upper level USSSA.... no need to go into this on the senior site.

If you weren't escared To play "the best" you would have played them full time in Plus not Major.

Webbie, there is nothing in senior softball I will ever be jealous of.... Personally I give no value to wining rings.

As a matter of fact I have turned down many good teams over my playing days to stay with friends....the best player I ever played with (Jeff Peterson) taught me softball is for fun, not glory, and as long as your with friends your wining/no matter the score.

Jeff turned down Steeles, Bell Corp and other top teams to stay with his friend from first grade (me) and other teammates he befriended.

Webbie, In the end .... When I see senior teams cutting friends to make
a team that might be better on the field, I see them as losers.

Sorry... That's just how I see it.

Softball is a hobby and the more ways we can support methods to make the game enjoyable to more players the better.

On this more for more players thing..... Do you think more DIFFERENT
Players would have a chance to enjoy competing late into Sunday at the Plus World if the plus Champions were required to rework their team told sworn their team "some" after winning a plus World?

We all Know the obvious answer to that question.
Nov. 29, 2012
Malo37
52 posts
Jdub, great points...
Webbie, thanks. You guys have a great team and always compete. That's what we enjoy doing. May the best team win whoever they are or whatever division they may be in...

Tim, you're the one suggesting that teams cut players or friends for being successful. That's YOUR idea. Keep 6 or 7 and cut the rest of the team if you win. Do you hear how rediculous that sounds?? With your suggestion/idea potentially You and Jeff would have to split teams because you had a successful run or a great weekend at worlds and won it. Now you have to move up or split up this successful team. That's so wrong.......

Again, no one is making you play up, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT!!! Leave it alone and go on to some other subject.

Dave Quiroz
Nov. 30, 2012
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Tim-Malo beat me to it-your idea breaks up teams of friends arbitrarily. No choice. But the difference is that the main reason to play Plus is the desire to be the best, and play the best. I didn't lose friends when I moved up.

I also do not understand your blog after blog about a division you don't even play in, and lobby hard to prove you don't belong in. What is your real agenda?

Dec. 1, 2012
swing for the fences
Men's 50
975 posts
Come on Mark, Timothy is Crap pot stirring, he's so scared of moving up that he's trying to change to division to compete.. it's pretty sad coming from such an accomplished striker of the ball... I believe he may not be on his meds! ;-)
Dec. 2, 2012
stick8
1238 posts
Tim,
Do you think more DIFFERENT
Players would have a chance to enjoy competing late into Sunday at the Plus World if the plus Champions were required to rework their team told sworn their team "some" after winning a plus World?
Tim, short answer is yes. But I fail to see how re-working a 50 major plus championship roster from the year before is going to guarantee other players from other teams enjoying making it to sunday? As one who's played 50 major plus for 5 years I can tell you the any of the teams that play 50 major plus can get hot and run right thru to Sunday and beat anyone--including the defending champs. I would hate to think that because NW Legends won this year that by rule they can only have 6 players from last years team for this year. Speaking for myself only I would much prefer to work hard, train, practice and prepare myself as best as I can to help my team (OKI) win next year. Because of that reason, I wouldn't want to see the defending champs roster watered down just to try and ensure different players make it to Sunday. Shouldn't those different players earn their way to Sunday? It's nice to defeat a defending champ but I would feel much better winning a game like that knowing it was THEIR chosen roster--not some watered down version because of a mandated rule. At this level teams should be able to keep who THEY want and add or pick up whoever THEY want.

Dec. 2, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
314 posts
I agree Stick. Plus Rosters or the disbaning of should never be touched by "rule". If that were the rule then logically we could make the same theory for all divisions not just PLUS. There are alot of teams that can compete with or as Plus but,what we here "we don't have the budget to play Plus".It's not the Plus Division that causes that.It's the lack of Plus teams.If AAA had the same amount of teams Natioanally as the Plus Division you would hear the same statement from them. That being said.To have a balanced quantity of teams for all divisions either we combine divisions or mandate move-ups but, never should team rosters be broken up to in Theory prevent a "Dynasty".

Malo. We played Elite in Vegas earlier this season.Best all around Major team that I have played against.
Dec. 2, 2012
Malo37
52 posts
Titan - Thanks!! We sure enjoy playing. What team do you play with? We look forward to getting after it again soon. Take a couple of months out and let everyone heal up a little. Happy Holidays Everyone!!
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