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Discussion: AAA HR rule question

Posted Discussion
Dec. 24, 2012
garyheifner
331 posts
AAA HR rule question
I agree with the new rule as I have seen (at least in the midwest) quite a few major level players filtering down into AAA. This might motivate them to go back to major.

Question:

Since you get only 3 and then outs, did they drop the silly rule about not being able to go one up with a walk off Hr in the last inning.

example. Bottom of the 7th and each team has 1 Hr. If I hit one out is it a game winner or is it still a single????
Dec. 24, 2012
cal50
Men's 50
256 posts
It is a home run. It also would have been a home run before the new rule. The key in your statement is that neither team had yet reached the limit.
Dec. 24, 2012
SSUSA Staff
1009 posts
The rule in question has been amended as follows and is applicable at all rating levels of play:

8.4(6) GAME-WINNING HOME RUN
A team may hit up to its limit of home runs at any time during the game, including a game-winning home run.


The "1-up" HR provisions were eliminated, making the issue moot. Teams at the Major+ and Major levels may, of course, string together a series of excess HR's treated as "walks" to push across a winning run, but the final one will be scored as a "walk" and not a home run.

The 2013 Official SSUSA Rulebook is ready to go to press pending the resolution of the "1-1" count issue that was referred out of the Rules Committee hearings for further analysis and later committee action. This should occur shortly into the new year.
Dec. 26, 2012
southernson
250 posts
Please keep the 1-1, it doesn't hurt the hitters, it doesn't impair the pitchers ability to spot pitch, and yes, it does speed up the game.
Dec. 26, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
784 posts
The AAA HR rule may move some teams and players up to Major, but there is still no motivation for the top Major teams to move up to Major+.

A compromise for the 1-1 count would be using it in the seeding games this year and see how it goes.
Dec. 26, 2012
SSUSA Staff
1009 posts
southernson: The current starting pitch count is "0-0". The consideration before the Rules Committee now is whether to change to "1-1", and if so, whether to allow the batter a 'waste foul' on any 2-strike count.
Dec. 26, 2012
southernson
250 posts
SSUSA,
Thanks for the info, please go to the 1-1. 80% of our tournaments are 1-1, it works and we get to play 7 innings most of the time.
Dec. 26, 2012
garyheifner
331 posts
If the 1-1 is voted down, Jawood makes a good point. Maybe use the 1-1 in the prelims of the ring tournies. It might help keep the games on time and not an hour or so late which happens often, especially if your in an age division that has to play "4" prelims. Our experience has shown that most TDs go to the 1-1 in the qualifers anyway. I think its value has been demonstrated over and over.
Dec. 26, 2012
DoubleL10
Men's 65
797 posts
I'd rather play 1-pitch if we are in such a hurry to get games done. It is, after all, as the 1-1 proponents say, a hitters game. That way the hitter will be agressive from the get-go!
Dec. 26, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3922 posts
larry that seems to be the point for the 1-1 count,the hitters are not that aggressive on first pitches for 4-3 counts,like they would be for 1-1 counts....i also would not have an extra foul ball for the 1-1 count...wish SSUSA had that for a 3rd option in the poll,as i would prefer that....its what ASA,USSSA plays at leagues and tourney's....
Dec. 26, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4253 posts
NOT ALL USE 1 CRAP 1 COUNT. IN EITHER ASSN.

I'M AGAINST IT.

Besides continually changing the senior softball game to be more business orientated what does it do for the players...nothing.
Short list:
We've lost: runs allowed, HR's, game time, half innings at end , one could argue the balls used. Freedom to play w\o gear.
Gained: Sign waver of do not play pitcher, a double 1st base, CR, better bats, could also go either way for some. Longer distances to run around bases, lol, longer pitching distance , and more venues to pick from so none have full compliments at each one.
Well, what's next for 2013?
Dec. 26, 2012
garyheifner
331 posts
Well, let's see:

1. 1-1 count-more agressive hitters. Play "7" innings in
Vegas rather than a series of 5 and maybe 6 inning games.
2. Trump 375/44 ball pretty good.
3. Dlb 1st base-almost no crashes at 1st.
4. 70' bases-yep longer but has brought the double play back into the game.
5. Longer pitching distance-only took me a few innings to zero in.
6. etc. etc.

Everything evolves-as Mr. Spock said, "the needs of the many far out weight the needs of the one."

When you have 1000's of men playing senior softball, you can't please everyone. At least the rules guys have been willing to try new stuff and get rid of it if it doesn't work. Sometimes it seems like all the grumpy old men in senior ball are on this site. I would be willing to bet 95% or more of the senior players could care less what the rules are. They just want to play.

Another possibility is for all the guys who hate SSUSA, as it is, should join together and start an organization that can it "ALL" right.

Got a hunch 2013 is just going to be fine.
Dec. 26, 2012
LP
266 posts
as a coach and a player i would like the count to stay at 0-0. as a pitcher i want to nibble at the corners.and as a batter i want to look at as many pitches as i can to make my best selection of pitched balls. and maybe because of the $325.00 to $695.00 per tournament i dont want to speed the game up any faster than it is.
Dec. 26, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3922 posts
well taits you need to check your rules....USSSA has been 1-1 for at least 20 years,ASA change 2 yrs back....so please check your facts before saying something you know nothing about....most all assoc's now have 70' bases,why do parks and recs are set up for that,why do they need to just cater to the senior org....as SSUSA has said,vegas/clark county would not change back to 65',so what,get in shape so you can run 70',it'll make ya more healthy.......

LP as a pitcher you can still nibble with the 1-1 count,in fact you can force a batter to swing even quicker with it....how many batters want to be down 1-2 that you know....the game now is so offensive orientated it is sickening,let the pitcher have a chance at least,and bring some D back.......

gary h yep..they'll all play no matter what the rules are,i figure also....
Dec. 27, 2012
taits
Men's 65
4253 posts
Bob, read the post, it doesn't say ALL ...it's NOT ALL have 1\1 count. The it's here in ASA don't use it either. Nor the league in Fresburg and the T's they put on.
As for bases some parks aren't big enough to accommodate the longer paths either but that wasn't part of that post.
As for assns, it's about incoming money nothing much more. always been how to generate more, without much outlay in the process.
Dec. 28, 2012
Marv19
Men's 60
424 posts
For what its worth guys we used the 1 and 1 rule with one to waste in the "Toys for Kids" one day'r last weekend. We were on a field without lights and staying on schedule was crucial. Im happy to report that all 6 games were 7 innings long. The last game time was even moved up 20 minutes and we finished 1/2 hour before schedule. From an organizers standpoint staying on schedule is important. And from most players I have heard from getting 7 innings in is important. So I think this little experiment was a very positive win win. As a side note we used 70s as well. Quite a few double plays. These tend to speed up the game too.
Dec. 28, 2012
GI
Men's 60
160 posts
Just finshed playing today in Scottsdale . I enjoyed having time off to play and wanted to get in some practice. This group plays Tues and Fri. in PHX area. about 35 guys showed up and we played on two fields splitting groups from younger to Older. I enjoyed playing the rules today of starting 1-1 count with also having to hit ball fair with 2 strikes. No extra pitch to waste. First thing I noticed was batters were aggressive to hit 1st pitch and 1st game was finished after 7 innings in less than an hour.Was really great to see batters being ready to hit and as a pitcher I loved if batter looked at first pitch and had two strikes. I than had a option of throwing several different pitches and batter understanding that a foul ball would be an out and being ready to swing his bat. 1-1 is a no brainer for speeding up game, as I have said in past Batters looking at 1st pitch will result in 42 extra pitches (6 pitches per inning times 7 innings That's if only 3 batters per team bat per per inning.) at least being thrown without a swing of the bat. 42 pitches at 30 seconds a pitch adds up to 21 minutes. 10-20 minutes being saved will make 7 inning games possible. Just a thought, I will bet outfielders etc will be glad to have less time on field and heat to watch batters be a statue for 1st swing. Happy New year
Dec. 28, 2012
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
Gary in response to your opening post
"example. Bottom of the 7th and each team has 1 Hr. If I hit one out is it a game winner or is it still a single???? "
In reality it is a Miracle if you hit one out--JMO
Dec. 28, 2012
steve65
Men's 65
175 posts
just a little humor for the new year sir
Dec. 29, 2012
JDub
Men's 50
131 posts
Marv, since you're visiting the SSUSA Board, let me just state that if you took some time to Understand Pitching Rules you could also keep your Games on Schedule. One (1) time past the Hip does NOT constitute a Windmill Pitch! Get it Right, cuz Real Pitchers don't always like Serving up Cookies in a "Hitters Game." Some Pitchers know how to mix things up Legally and otherwise, therefore, if a Half Windmill Upsets Hitters then why not just use a Tee ? ? ?

Your Umpires were advised of my "Specialty Pitches" prior to each game, and I mentioned there would be Whiners! Your Umpires didn't have a Problem, and enjoyed it, but because your Participating Teams were Whining all day (including Sommerville), you tried to Enforce that it is an Illegal Pitch! At least a couple of your Umpires (and Players) ignored you and got it right! Have you even bothered to look up that Specific Rule yet? Reminder, ASA, NSA, and SSUSA don't have a Problem with the Half Windmill Delivery . . .

Please take note, we Enjoy Playing in Cali, but you gotta let Pitchers have a little FUN too, as long as we're in the cross-hairs of every pitch . . .


Happy New Year,
Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite
Dec. 29, 2012
mad dog
Men's 60
3922 posts
taits if they are not using the 1-1 count in an ASA,USSSA,then they are modifying the rules.....parks/leagues can do what they want,but once you get to any qualifier in those asso's,it will be the 1-1 count....so i really don't care what the local yokels do,as they are making up their rules......

jdub agree about a batter who whine's b/c a pitcher looks deceiving to them,those batters are ones to me who can't hit and prolly should go play t-ball...


all ya ever hear on here is batter,batter,batter....who cares,let the pitcher have some fun,or just make the game "PITCH TO YOUR OWN TEAM" then you don't have anyone to blame but your team.......
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