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Details for jgoff5113


Real name:
Jim Goff

Location:
Davenport, IA

Division:
Men's 60

Messages posted by jgoff5113 »Message board home   »Start a new discussion

Aug. 10, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Runner on 2nd helping batter with inside/outside pitches.

So it seems like we can all agree that, for better or worse, it is rather common for someone to say something while the pitch is in the air:

1. The umpire, calling "Flat" or "Illegal" (as a batter, I find the "Illegal" call quite helpful, because a high arc pitch is in the air long enough for me to check my swing after the "Illegal" or "Too high" call is made).
2. The catcher, saying something like "Great pitch!" (annoying and potentially distracting to the batter, but not against the rules, I assume, since at least a few catchers do this, as lowprofile points out).
3. The "helpful" teammate in the dugout yelling "Short!" or "Deep!"

So my question was really just an extension of #3; namely, What if a teammate on 2nd base decided to "help" the batter? To be clear, I wasn't advocating for this at all; I was just curious whether it would be against the rules (Answer: No), and if not, opinions on how such behavior would be received (Answer: Not well).
Aug. 9, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Runner on 2nd helping batter with inside/outside pitches.

Thanks Dave. Really, no argument desired. As I wrote in my previous post, you've answered my legality question, and now in your latest post, you've also answered my call for opinions on the sportsmanship or spirit-of-the-game aspect. Much appreciated.
Aug. 9, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Runner on 2nd helping batter with inside/outside pitches.

Hmmm...OK DaveD and Jon44, so both of you would find such verbal "help" from your teammate on 2nd base, or from your dugout, too distracting and thus not helpful to you. If that's the case, then might I suggest that each time you step up to bat, you ask the ump not to call out "flat!" or "Illegal!" on pitches that are not within the legal arc? The timing of such a verbal "piece of info" about the pitch coming from the ump or a teammate would be the same, i.e. right around the time the pitch reaches the top of its arc. Tell the ump he can let you know after the pitch has hit the ground, so you don't lose your focus on the pitch. Lol! (Actually I was at a tournament this year run by one of the other sanctioning/governing companies where the umps did not declare the pitch illegal under after it hit the ground, so maybe they have a different rule or practice on declaration of illegal pitches.) I'm not trying to start an argument here, and thanks for letting me know that there's no rule against such verbal "help" from teammates. You've answered my question.
Aug. 9, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Runner on 2nd helping batter with inside/outside pitches.

Fine Jon44; then in your case, you would simply tell your teammates that you don't want that sort of verbal help from your teammate on 2nd base. But assuming there are any players out there who might find it helpful, my question was whether there is any rule against this. It's really no different from someone in the dugout yelling "short!" to try to help their teammate at bat lay off a pitch (teammates in the dugout enjoy a "side view" of the pitch that again, is arguably better than the view that the batter has, in the long/short dimension); haven't we all done this, or heard someone in the dugout yell "long!" or "short!" to their teammate at bat?
Aug. 9, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Runner on 2nd helping batter with inside/outside pitches.

When I'm a runner on 2nd base, I am looking right down the line of sight from pitcher to strike mat, and I can usually tell even before a pitch reaches the top of its arc, whether the pitch is going to be inside or outside and thus not a strike. I actually have a better view than my teammate at bat as to whether the pitch coming to him is going to be off-target in the inside/outside dimension. Is there any rule against saying in a load voice "inside!" or "outside!" to help my teammate who is at bat? Even if there is no rule against this, any thoughts or opinions on whether this might be considered poor sportsmanship, or not in the spirit of the game?
July 21, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Kicking the ball to a teammate legal?

Very interesting, bkb555. I assume that in the opposite scenario where the ball is on the infielder's glove and he touches the base with his other (bare) hand, the correct call would also be "out" (assuming it's a force play). Same principal that allows the much more typical play of the infielder having the ball in either hand and touching the bag with either foot. As long as the ball is in either hand and under control, touching the bag with any part of the body on a force play results in an out.
July 21, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Outfielder runs thru centerfield fence gap and catches home run ball; home run or out?

Thanks Wayne 37. Actually in the situation I was describing, the fielder runs through the open gate and then catches the fly ball, but your scenario is very good to know about as well. Often I've seen side gates (i.e. down the foul lines) mistakenly left open as well. And you're saying that if a defender catches a popup or fly ball in the field of play, but then is unable to stop, with his momentum carrying him through the open gate, the batter is out, but any other baserunners should be awarded an advance of one base. I've also played on fields where there isn't a side fence all the way along the field, and instead, a second line is painted on the grass to divide in-play foul territory from out-of-play territory. On that sort of field, you're saying that should a defender catch a ball on the in-play side of the line but then run over the line, again the batter would be out but any other baserunners should be awarded an advance of one base (after tagging up, as you wrote).
July 21, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Outfielder runs thru centerfield fence gap and catches home run ball; home run or out?

Thanks lb16 and Dave. You have relieved me of any temptation to risk my physical safety by attempting to run through that little gap, should I ever face the situation I described. On a related note, at the Sturgis, MI tournament last month, a wide gate (I'd estimate at least 12-feet wide) in the outfield fence was left open while a game was being played (I was coming in from the parking lot and closed it). The ump should have noticed the open gate and ordered play stopped until it was closed, but in effect, a section of the outfield fence was missing during play. This was a much higher fence, and had a fly ball landed just beyond where the fence should have been, a bru-ha-ha might have resulted on the question of whether it should be a home run or (I assume) a ground rule double. Had a batted ball bounced through the open gate, I assume the correct ruling would be a double. But still egg on the ump's face for not noticing the open gate. And had the left fielder run through the open gate and caught a fly ball, home run would be the correct call (but maybe the same bru-ha-ha, with the team in the field arguing that it would have hit the fence and not cleared it).
July 21, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Outfielder runs thru centerfield fence gap and catches home run ball; home run or out?

Ok Rules Brain Trust Guys, here's another just-for-fun, hypothetical question: I just finished playing outfield at an SSUSA tournament where the fields were only 280-ft. and the outfield fence was only 5-ft. high. More to the point though, the outfield fences featured that small overlapping gap in the fence in center field, in order to make it easier to retrieve home run balls. Now imagine there's a lefty at bat who is known for his power and is also all-pull. I'm playing left-center and we put the shift on him, which means I'm positioned almost in dead-center field, and close to the fence since it's only 280-ft. The batter hits a towering fly ball that is tracking to land a few feet beyond the fence and just a little to the right of dead-center. If I run through the fence gap in centerfield and catch the ball beyond the fence, is it still a home run, or should the batter be called out?
July 20, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Kicking the ball to a teammate legal?

Once again, thanks DD's and bkb555. You guys are the experts!
July 20, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Kicking the ball to a teammate legal?

Situation: Batted ball bounces off the pitcher and is rolling away from him and toward his 1st baseman. The pitcher deliberately kicks the ball the ball over to his 1st baseman who picks it up in time for the out. Is this a legal play? Or should the batter be called safe?
July 20, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Batter pops up, doesn't run; defense lets ball drop to get a double play. Legal?

Thank-you Dave, for citing the rule from the book. No double play.
July 20, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Batter pops up, doesn't run; defense lets ball drop to get a double play. Legal?

Situation: Runner on 1st with less than 2 out. Batter pops up in the infield, doesn't run because he's disgusted with his poor swing and assumes the ball is going to be caught. Defense notices batter isn't running and 2nd baseman deliberately lets the ball drop in front of him, then picks it up and throws to 2nd, then SS throws to 1st for a double play. Was it legal for the 2nd baseman to deliberately let the ball drop? I know there is a rule against deliberately dropping a line drive in order to get a double play, but in this case, it's really the batter's "bad" that he didn't run to 1st. Is this a legit double play? If not, what is the penalty for letting the ball drop?
March 15, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Catcher already has the ball when non-forced runner crosses commit line; I assume runner is out?

Thank-you B.J. I thought so, but wanted to confirm with you experts!
March 15, 2020
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Catcher already has the ball when non-forced runner crosses commit line; I assume runner is out?

Scenario: Bases loaded and less than 2 outs. Batter grounds it to the 3rd baseman, who steps on third (this means the baserunner who started the play on 3rd is no longer forced). The baserunner who started the play on 3rd has left the 3rd base bag; but instead of chasing this runner towards home to either tag him or force him to cross the commit line, the 3rd baseman after stepping on 3rd immediately throws the ball to the catcher (who is standing on the strike mat), and the catcher catches the ball BEFORE the baserunner crosses the commit line. The baserunner then crosses the commit line and scoring line with the catcher holding the ball while standing on the strike mat. I assume this baserunner should be called out, even though he wasn't forced at home and did not cross the commit line until after the catcher had the ball. I just want to confirm that the result is a double play?
Nov. 11, 2019
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Is a check-swing or deliberate half-swing legal?

Thank-you all for educating me on this. I suppose it would be unfair to umpires to expect them to enforce a rule that includes in it a term ("full swing") that is undefined.
Nov. 11, 2019
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Is a check-swing or deliberate half-swing legal?

And Nancy: His wrists were not turned.
Nov. 11, 2019
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Is a check-swing or deliberate half-swing legal?

Thanks everyone for your comments.

STL0: For what it's worth, this batter definitely did "not take a full swing when deliberately hitting a pitched ball".

Nancy (or anyone): Just for my edification, can you describe what "chopping at" a ball looks like?

Based on the wording from the rule book that I quoted back to STL0 above, it sounds like it is in fact against the rules not to take a full swing, but umpires don't enforce this rule. (I mean no disrespect to umpires!)
Nov. 11, 2019
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Is a check-swing or deliberate half-swing legal?

In the World Masters Tourney that just concluded, a batter made a half swing to dink the ball over the pitcher's head and just beyond 2nd base (we were playing just 10 defenders). His half- or check-swing was clearly deliberate, and while I have to admire his skill in being able to check-swing the ball exactly where he wanted it to go, I wonder if what he did is in keeping with the rules of our game. Just to be clear about the "swing" that he took, if it had been baseball (or softball for that matter) and if he had missed the ball, I'm confident that the umpire would have ruled it no swing, because the bat didn't even traverse the entire strike bat, and he certainly didn't break his wrists. Is such a bunt-like swing legal in our game?
Nov. 11, 2019
jgoff5113
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Base runner using the safety bag at 1st base

Awesome B.J.! Thanks for pointing me to the right place in the rulebook.
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