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Details for fennellwg


Real name:
Bill Fennell

Location:
, RI

Division:
Men's 60

Messages posted by fennellwg »Message board home   »Start a new discussion

May 3, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: Question for Bat Geeks

Mass index is LS attempt to quantify moment of inertia (moi) or amount of endload in the bat.
More endload provides more momentum to collision with the ball if able to maintain the same swing speed.
More balanced ( less endload) usually allows for increase in batspeed.

Generally the two are inversely proportional.
As endload increases, batspeed will decrease with little change in total momentum delivered to ball.
...so finding the number that you are comfortable swinging will likely provide the best results.
Finding the mass index for bats from other vendors will help compare inertial properties.... the difficult part is getting everyone to use the same scale.


IMO




April 21, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Jason Branch teaches Hitting Mechanics, Power and Place Hitting. SM#71

I like this one a lot.
The video is a good indicator of how better player swing a bat.
Jasonís technique is a bit different than the approach Bogie teaches.
Hell, Jasonís technique is even different than what he claims to be doing.
But he still gets the job done, doesnít he?
Bill

March 28, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Dead ball ground rule double situation.

My condolences Dave D.
This is probably the third time in as many days that you have offered an objective , rational interpretation of the rule book.

Yet far too often it seems there are those that wish to dissect and parce every word until they reach some imagined intent of the rule or outcome they may feel had been unfairly denied.

Perhaps I have exaggerated a bit, but it seems we are spending more time ďlitigatingĒ the game instead of playing it.

Just a thought
bill
March 28, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Need advice

Dave is a big fan of spending a lot of time with your bat of choice and not switching from one to the other because of the ways it may disrupt your swing until youíve had time to adjust.

No doubt the red miken and big cats feel/swing much different for you.

My suggestion is to pick one of the most popular flavors that has a weight and balance point similar to the bat you wish to use in the future.

Dave has a pretty good list of ďswing weightsĒ for bats that he has recently reviewed. Those numbers can be easily converted to determine the balance point. ....something you can quickly measure for your own bats.

IMO,
Bill
March 13, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: miken Freak Black ASA maxload 2016

So...irishmike,
It sounds like you are playing in something that could be described as an ASA Senior league.
Which mandates the use of ASA certified (98mph) bats .
And even though ASA bats that are now designed for and certified using .52COR/ 300 psi balls, itís possible that your league may use .44COR/375 psi balls instead.
Yes/No ?

Regardless of any changes in performance or durability or safety....

if you donít wish to buy an ASA bat, what alternatives do you have?

In general I think:
A harder ball with low COR will need a flexible (SSUSA) bat to perform best.
A higher COR ball should. make a stiff walled (ASA) bat perform better compared to using a low COR ball.
But both types of ball will likely benefit from using a flexible walled (SSUAS) bat.

i canít speak to the durability of the latest generation of ASA bat when using .44/375 balls. But it seems reasonable that a harder ball would put more stress on the barrel.

Bill


March 13, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: miken Freak Black ASA maxload 2016

Iím willing to speculate without really knowing the answer.

Are you looking for a bat to use in senior league?
Even though there is no official compression spec for senior bats I believe most of them would be ruled ineligible at any ASA tournament for being too soft / flexible ( below 220 lbs)

BPF = BBCOR/COR
so for a bpf of 1.2 and a COR of .44. The combination of bat and ball ( BBCOR) improves the collision efficiency by 20%

If all things were equal , switching to a ball with 20% better bounce , would have a similar effect


I suspect a bouncier.52 COR ball will negate much of the benefit of a senior bat with bpf = 1.21 but the bat is still more efficient at transferring momentum than either a .44 or .52 COR

IMO,
Bill


Feb. 28, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: New Dudleys

We had this discussion last year around this time regarding Kellyís heated bat breaki-in process

https://seniorsoftball.com/?messageboard&viewby_thread=138376&message_topic_id=review&keywordsfound=Heat+treat

Dave did comment by way of stating SSUSA definition of an ďaltered ď bat.

You may interpret for yourself what that means in relation to your new bat..

To my knowledge, no one has ever been challenged at a senior tournament for prepping a bat this way. But itís Not likely that anyone has ever admitted doing it, either.

regards,
bill
Feb. 20, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Today's "super" bats

Thanks again,
Iím not proposing any COR/comp flavor.
Just curious to see where they fall if compared against some equivalent standard like SI

I was surprised by DOERBAUMís proposal to use a 500 psi comp ball. But if the crash test dummys indicate that such a hard ball can be matched with a COR that makes it ďrelativelyĒ safe ....so be it.


Feb. 19, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Today's "super" bats

Thanks Kevin & HJ ,
Your explanation for the effects of COR on severity index still leaves me a bit confused, but I have no problem accepting your test results.

So for clarity,
Is it safe to say that increasing the compression of any ball with a fixed COR will create a corresponding increase in severity index?

What Compression combined with a .52 COR ball is likely to limit the severity index to 1200 ?

regards.
bill
Feb. 19, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Today's "super" bats

DOERBAUM, or anyone that wants to comment.
Correct me if Iím wrong, but I believe the NX3 is marketed as a safer alternative with lower severity index is due specifically to itís relatively LOW compression of 300psi.

Going to a harder ball will certainly hit and field as true as any, but collisions with body parts will be more damaging and take a bigger toll.

-bill


Feb. 13, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Today's "super" bats

Hmmm.. the circular logic for this thread appears to be spiraling to its forgone conclusion.

Things started by chastising SSUSA for not protecting players through better regulation of bats.
Soon the bats were not really the culprit, we just need to change the balls.
But if we change the ball, the number of ďold guyĒ home runs will drop.

The overall consensus seems to be: ďDo whatever itís takes, just donít change anything.Ē

Did I miss anything?
As long as senile old geezers are willing to stand in front of 100 mph missiles just so they get another chance to hit one out, Iím pretty sure things are not changing anytime soon.

The only suggestion I have is to dress all infielders like hockey goalies and turn em loose.


Jan. 26, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: What Became of 30+ Ounce Bats?

In a rare display of self-control Iím not gonna take the bait and totally sidetrack this thread
But I do have a lot of issues with the Ray Demarini comments in the Infamous batspeed video. Itís had me scratching my head for a long time.
if anyone wants to start a new thread or talk about this off-line, Iím interested.
fennellwgATverizon.net
Jan. 25, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: What Became of 30+ Ounce Bats?

To SOFTBALLNUTZ:
Lots of ďifsĒ in your question,
But if you bought a 30 oz bat that was tested to have bpf = 1.21,
I believe that adding weight to the handle could allow it to test at a lower value..

Either way, itís not likely that anyone would experience performance benefits by adding knob cuffs to a 30 oz bat
Jan. 25, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: What Became of 30+ Ounce Bats?

Which brings up a good point.
I believe cyborg is essentially correct. They would potentially need to ďtune downď the performance of many of the heavier bats to pass BPF.

Bat manufacturers have been required to adhere to current BPF standard for over a decade. Yet reaching and exceeding bpf=1.2 has been possible since the days of the OG Ultra.
Since everyone is stuck at 1.21 , what performance benefits are we really buying with the new bats?
Jan. 25, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: What Became of 30+ Ounce Bats?

Iím inclined to side with Nancy.
Ray Demarini was the one to put the wheels in motion for high performance bats.
The science already existed, but baby boomers were putting their disposable cash into games like golf and tennis. I guess Major League Baseball had the financial resources to advance the technology, but I believe their interests were more aligned by maintaining the status quo. Juiced balls and bats were something to be outlawed.
The advent of carbon composites and exotic allows like titanium have made bats too good. All of the softball associations have become a bit like MLB in their attempts to regulate bat performance to some consistent standard. In the case of SSUSA, the acceptance standard is set at BPF=1.21
One of the criteria for the BPF test is to fire a softball against a stationary bat at 110 mph in order to measure the rebound speed of the ball. The speed was selected to simulate bat/ball collision speeds demonstrated by professional players. Since collision speed is a constant for this test, the ball rebound speed always increases as the mass and rotational inertia of the bat increases.
To cyborgís point ( and the original question): real life measurements of professional softball players recorded an increase in batted ball speed with the use of heavier or more endloaded bats. Current BPF standards also indicate a similar trend. The physical attributes of these players were never specified, but itís safe to assume they weighed over 250 lbs and had bat speed approaching 100 mph. Regardless, eventually performance tends to level off and decline as batspeed is reduced due to the increased inertia of heavier bats. Depending on the amount of endload, peak performance for the field results of this particular test occurred while using bats comparable to our 28-30 oz flavors.
In the case of old geezers like myself, your mileage may vary.

Jan. 24, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: Critical read on utilizing engineering & physics while selecting your new senior bat

YOU SAY YOU WERE MAKING FUN OF ME!!..?....NO WAY!!
Thatís not me...well maybe.

OK, that is me, I canít deny it.

Iím like every other geezer on this site, nobody ever changes.

I donít really expect to see myself change anytime soon, but I would like to stop swinging at low, inside pitches.

Besides, it is funny
Alan has always proven himself to be one of the best, on many levels.
Now you can add psychological counseling.
Do you make house calls?

-bill

Jan. 23, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: Critical read on utilizing engineering & physics while selecting your new senior bat

Excellent.
Your grasp of the relevant facts is humbling.
regards,
bill
Jan. 22, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: New 2018 Melee Reloaded

SOFTBALLNUTZ,
If all things were equal, the increased inertia of heavier bats helps to transfer more momentum to the ball for greater ball speed and distance.
However, increasing bat inertia usually causes a proportional decrease in batspeed for no net change in momentum transfer and no real performance advantage....bummer

That said, there are no laws of physics or genetics that require ďall things ď to be equal.
Now that Iím in my 60s I know a lot of old guys that are still ďstrong as an oxĒ
but have lost a lot of fast twitch muscle. That may limited in batspeed , but they can still swing a Buick as fast as their 30 oz bat.
Iím only partly joking, but if youíre gonna swing slow, swing the heaviest thing you can.

Theoretically there are a couple of things that could work in your favor.
Even if the bats had similar performance, softballs are the least efficient part of the collision. .44 COR balls lose a lot of energy to friction as the ball is deformed..
Lower batspeed of a 30 oz bat could ďtheoretically ď cause less deformation of the ball and associated friction losses.....not sure I believe that.
In one of the D. Russel articles he states that all BPF tests for SSUSA are conducted by firing a softball at the mathematical center of percussion (sweet spot) of the bat. Heavier bats ( greater MOI) tend to have better BPF measurements. Testers have noted that small shifts in the balance point of the bat can shift the center of percussion without having much effect on the true location of peak performance. Net result is the bat may be tested at a location that is not where peak performance occurs. I donít know if this is standard for senior bats , but I know ASA certification dictates testing at multiple locations along the barrel to find the point of peak performance.

I guess the devil is always in the details.
bill
Jan. 22, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: New 2018 Melee Reloaded

Donít blame Lee.
Anyone getting a paycheck has an obligation to comply with the wishes of management.
Virtually all of the principal bat manufacturers have made it policy to not provide basic mass and inertial properties of their products.
Maybe they donít want to confuse us with details that may distract from the fancy paint job or marketing hype...?

The good news is that as more folks become aware of the relationship between these properties and performance many third party reviews are willing to provide the answers.

Knowing the actual BPF measurements of each bat would definitely be catastrophic to all the potential losers. But the fact is, all of the major vendors make some really good bats.
Knowing the balance point or moment of inertia is just a way to identify the properties that suit an individualís preference or skill level.
Not much different than knowing your own shoe size.
IMO.
Bill

Jan. 20, 2018
fennellwg
Topic: Bats
Discussion: New 2018 Melee Reloaded

Both AJC and mck71 offer opinions as valid as anyoneís.

Iím going to stand by my comment above and quote myself;
ďAll of the above options are possible. Lee canít ( or wonít) tell you, but pretty soon someone will just measure the BP of one to tell us how the weight distribution compares to other brandsĒ

One extra tidbit to add to your confusion:
Dave V ( senior softball bat reviews) posted some measurement for the endloaded 12Ē Melee 2 .
He weighed the barrel end while the bat was positioned horizontally and simply supported at the knob.

One bat 27 oz and the other was 26oz.

The barrel end of the 27 weighed 16.8 oz
The barrel end of the 26 weighed 16.7 oz

Pretty close, all things considered.
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