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Discussion: How did SSUSA decide which Division had teams shorted to four gg?

Posted Discussion
Oct. 9, 2013
Tim Millette
615 posts
How did SSUSA decide which Division had teams shorted to four gg?
Just got back from the very balanced/competitive 50 major Plus Worlds and still cannot figure out how SSUSA decided to limit some Plus teams to only four games instead of five.

I would have thought that getting the 50 Plus Division to 11 teams ( mostly bumped 50 Major teams from last year) would have merited supporting those teams that decided to take the challenge to move up instead of shorting more then a couple of them only four games.

This will not keep me from supporting SSUSA events sure will give me something to think about with the new associations going after seniors.

We did get a whole $150 back but....we spent approx $200 per person on airfare=$2,400.
$225 per person on rooms=$2,700...$50 per person on rental cars...$50 per person on entry fee....
Added together....that's easily $6,000....

Since we got 20% less games then we were supposed to play....that $150 was a drop in the bucket and sure didn't cover 20% of our expenses $1,200.

I told the on site Director this is just another example of why Plus doesn't feel valued in SSUSA.
Oct. 9, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1202 posts
I feel for you with all those expenses Timmy, however you could of got much more bang for your buck if your team didn't bat out of order! FYI ;-)
Oct. 9, 2013
Men's 55
250 posts
This happen to my team Rated...We were told that because of the league that plays at Sunset Park all games had to be completed bye 3pm....however we were also told that because of all the extra 40 teams there ,that need to play, is another reason for the cut in our games....They cut the ladies games to 5 innings because they had no lights!!! We played 2 games Friday, 1 Saturday & 1 Sunday.....Now the killer, I over heard 1 director say SSUSA will NEVER FIX MAJOR PLUS because we don't make them $$$$$$$$$$$.....They said that with only 200 players Nation wide their only job is to give the + players somewhere to play!!! Not cater to them, they said the same goes for the Women divisions.......Looks like only AA, AAA & Majors get the LOVE!!!!
Oct. 9, 2013
Men's 50
888 posts
In addition to this, our team did play 7 games but we were only able to get 6 innings in 5 of the games and only 5 innings in 2 of the games because of the time restrictions. Yes we played 7 games, but really only played 6 when you take into effect the 65/70 minute time limits.

They need to find some ways to speed these games up so we can play a regulation game, it's the WORLD TOURNAMENT, too much wasted time such as umpires having to write down every player change on the scorecard, too many talks on the mound and letting infield warmup go on every inning.

Going back to 5 runs an inning would help and look again at the 1 and 1 count. Do we want playing action or standing around waiting for some action?

rightj1, the site director that said they basically don't give a s**t about Major+ should be fired!
Oct. 9, 2013
Men's 55
250 posts
Taking into account the time limits, then we only played 3 games…….The director will never be fired!!! Management has his back!!!
To me, the only way to fix this, is a team limit…1st 400 team entered get in, we only have a limited # of fields to handle 400 teams…or if you want more teams, spread the tournament out over the entire month… All Major + divisions 1 weekend, Majors the next weekend, AAA following, then AA….make all seeding games 65-70 minutes…Bracket games 7 innings, that way everyone gets what they pay for!! SSUSA still get all their money & Us Players get to play!!! Just my 2 cents!
Oct. 9, 2013
96 posts

I understand your point. However, 80 teams X $700 = big money. For that reason, I can't see SSUSA limiting teams. I feel they should choose fields where there are not any restrictions.

What I am more concerned with has to do with the number of teams that will be bumped from major to major plus. That is how you build the M+ program so it will mean more than it does now.
Oct. 10, 2013
86 posts
They won't bump up a bunch of teams and half of the ones they do will break up. Why move up to division that SSUSA
doesn't care about and is treated as the stepchild. Please no offense intended.

Oct. 10, 2013
Men's 60
1045 posts
I don't believe Major+ is treated more poorly because they are classified as M+. I do believe that any organization will respond/cater to their core business group. In truth there is no one place in the country that can handle the number of teams that come to Vegas for the Worlds.

In order to put the teams only on the best fields, the tournament would have to be spread out over 5 or 6 weekends. That really dilutes the financial and political impact of the event within the host city.

IMO, SSUSA works hard at anticipating the number of teams entering the tournament and the resources needed to bring it together.

That is not to say that there was not problems and room for improvement. Of course there is and the SSUSA will make every attempt to identify and correct them. If they don't the tournament will suffer for it. Regardless of what said to Ron, I don't believe that to be general opinion of the SSUSA at the management level.

Oct. 10, 2013
1 posts
This is an interesting discussion and I concur with many, Here is my issue, We get bumped to Major+ after a unexpected good run last year, We contact head office and they tell us we need to play 4 tournaments and then we can file a reclassification request,
1 Major+ tourney on the east coast and the balance are AAA or maybe a couple major teams, We have no option to play 4 so we ride the wave and qualifiy to spend a ton of dough to fly to Vegas only to play 4 games, 3 of which were 5 innings due to the time limits which they have zero controls in place to monitor,This limits at bats and ability to possibly win a game in an extra inning or two,
How about this if there is a time limit then pinch runners need to be the base coach, there is a time limit to take the field between innings and if the other team decides to BS and play toss, figure out who is pinch running and generally play the clock they should lose an out in the upcoming inning.

Speed it up, put a few simple measures in place to allow for 7 innings and get the teams the 5GG they pay for, or combine the Major+ with Majors , go to 7 Hrs and after that its an out, May make for a little more fun.
Oct. 11, 2013
Men's 55
373 posts
They explained the reason for doing and their decisions at the Managers meeting....Aloha, Fabe
Oct. 11, 2013
Tim Millette
615 posts
Fabe, so what was the reason they chose to short the Plus teams instead of the others?
Oct. 12, 2013
Tim Millette
615 posts
Staff....I am still waiting for the first explanation as to why it was the Plus Division that had the lessened losers bracket.

I didn't follow the other events so I don't know if it happened anywhere else or not...

nor do I know if some losers bracket Plus games could have been played elsewhere.

All I know is...a division ssusa has been trying to grow finally made it to 11 teams and you shorted three of us one game.

I do hope ssusa figures out a way to help the Plus program, because at this time it is not very enticing to play most of the time.

I think the teams were all evenly matched and 11 teams is a great jumping off point to grow the Division...

I think your office does a great job getting rosters and such together for teams...but....

There is huge competition coming your way for OUR senior dollars and I hope you pay attention to it...your days of being the only show in town could very soon be over.

I'd recommend doing everything you can to show your doing everything possible for us.....even if it requires explaining more then three times why 50% of the teams that were bumped to Plus without winning anything only got four games.

Huge player registration fees, 3 day events in many 50 events/when many times they can be played in two days, buying and chasing our own balls, the same cheap hats and bags as awards for many years...and what many see as gouging entry fees, has many believing your not in it to give us a good value for our senior dollars....

I know your here to make money...and your very successful doing that but.....I'd start taking OUR senior softball dollars a little less for granted....

A game or two at Cheyenne sure would have sounded like a better option then the hot tub.
Oct. 12, 2013
Big Mike
84 posts
I for one, would welcome another senior division. It seems when you are the only game in town you kind of get comfortable being the king.
Oct. 12, 2013
Tim Millette
615 posts
I don't know exactly what their game plans are but, I am sure ASA and USSSA that both attempted senior programs late this season are re adjusting their game plan on getting OUR senior dollars.

SSUSA has a HUGE head start but....those two have DEEP pockets, many Directors, many venues, many senior league teams to tempt, many connections.....

As a consumer I see competition as a good thing...just imagine what we could get if say...USSSA came out with a reduced player ID fee, tourney staff supply and chase all the balls, reduced entry fee alternative, awards that are not the same old hats/bat bags....

With SSUSA having Worlds in Vegas....two thirds of the teams across the country (central and eastern) could be lost instantly. Those loses could also tempt some western teams to head east (kinda like the eastern teams head west right now).

I know ASA in their ineptness put their first western senior worlds four hours from the nearest metro airport (Medford) but....I wouldn't count on that stupidity lasting forever.

If ASA moved that tourney into one of the strong senior areas in ca towards the end of the summer...ssusa western worlds would be a locals only event.

Heck....what would happen if they took the NorCal fields vacant on Reno weekends.....

Once again....SSUSA has opened themselves up with many actions that a lot of seniors see as gouging or ignoring concerns.
Oct. 12, 2013
Men's 55
250 posts
Tim.....I will answer your questions as I did earlier in the thread.....

FROM THE MOUTH OF SSUSA DIRECTOR!!!! SSUSA WILL NEVER CATER TO A GROUP OF PLAYERS THAT DON'T MAKE THEM $$$$$$ that means as far as Major + & the Women's divisions are concern! From a business stand point, their correct!

Remember SSUSA doesn't need the Major + the Major + Players need SSUSA, if we want to play!
Since we pay the same fees as the other divisions, you would think it would be different!

Mike you & I will have to agree to disagree on this one!

This is a hobby for the players, if it was business, I'm sure we would take our $$$ somewhere else.

It would really be nice to have a choice, but ASA is weak on the west coast & usssa won't allow Senior Bats they also want to have a screen on the field....

So Tim what can 1 of 200 players nation wide do???? Stay home on the weekends & play with MOMMA??
Oct. 17, 2013
Wayne 37
Men's 60
376 posts
When more teams start staying home from big nationals, it will affect the pocketbook. They lose, you save. If Ted Cruz can shut down the government........well you get my drift.
Oct. 17, 2013
Men's 50
328 posts
480 teams! Has there ever been a tournament this big in any association? There may have been a few things that were not perfect but I believe it was incredibly well run event.
Oct. 17, 2013
2 posts
Girls NSA Fastpitch Tournament/Columbus Ohio/Berliner Park(31 fields in same park)/year 2000/687 teams/Monday thru Saturday. I was in charge of the 14U division which had 194 teams by it self.
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