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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 90 anonymousDiscussion: courtesy runners
| Posted | Discussion |
| Nov. 27, 2014 JMAC OO Men's 60 22 posts | courtesy runners What do you think about doing away with courtesy runners in the 50-55 age group? We are getting away from how all aspects of the game was meant to be played. Games are taking longer to play,substitutions,etc... I see it happening in all age groups, young and old. |
| Nov. 27, 2014 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | JMAC 00, I agree with "getting away from how all aspects of the game was meant to be played".... limited runs per inning, no/limited home runs, 1-1 count, courtesy runners, time limits etc. As for courtesy runners, allow only one per inning and that runner must be the last out. |
| Nov. 27, 2014 tg69 393 posts | what if the courtesy runner had to be the guy coaching first base? |
| Nov. 27, 2014 stick8 1991 posts | Although I agree with the above sentiments regarding games taking longer having courtesy runners is one of the lures of many who play senior softball. Personally I would prefer to have it such that once players are on base they cannot get a courtesy runner after the first pitch to the next batter. IOW, if I get a base hit and once the first pitch is thrown to the next batter, no courtesy runner would be allowed for me. Get a runner for me before that first pitch to the next batter. jmho |
| Nov. 27, 2014 ChiPrimeMarty Men's 60 104 posts | stick8, I like your suggestion. Too often teams use a courtesy runner a batter or two later when the slow guy gets to 2nd with 2 outs and a faster runner has a better chance to score. I think that's an abuse of a rule meant to allow players with bad legs to still play this game. Here's another suggestion: A courtesy runner can advance only 1 base on any hit other than OTF HR. One of my park district leagues has this rule, and it greatly reduces the instances of coutesy runners. |
| Nov. 27, 2014 E6 in AZ Men's 50 91 posts | I understand that we all want the game to go faster, but I have to say in the 17 tourney games we have played this fall only 1 did not get into the 7th and we use runners for those who need them. What about injuries gentlemen ? We are all exposed to the risk of injury and yet we all want to compete to the best of our ability. On my team we have a great group of players who give a 100%. Maybe we all do not have all four tools (glove, bat, run, arm), but we can make allowances to get everyone in every game (positions, runner, etc). I like tg69's comment, and we primarily use our base coaches as runners when needed. Let's not make this any harder than it really should be. Just my 2 cents. Happy Thanksgiving and LET'S PLAY BALL ! |
| Nov. 27, 2014 titanhd Men's 60 638 posts | No courtesy runners unless for injury. |
| Nov. 27, 2014 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | E6 in AZ, wrong assumption. I for one don't want the game to go faster. Happy Thanksgiving! |
| Nov. 27, 2014 hemi racer Men's 65 237 posts | There are so many good instances when a courtesy is not only called for, but good sportsmanship to allow it by the other team you would need a congressional size bill to cover them all. I think you just have to live with it the way it is. |
| Nov. 27, 2014 Jawood Men's 50 943 posts | Once again BruceinGa, the suggestions are not trying to get the game to go faster, rather to get more playing action in the time we are given. |
| Nov. 28, 2014 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Jawood, if you want action in the allotted playing time, play one pitch. My problem is that associations want to reduce total game time. I don't blame them, but we, as players, we should want 90 minute games. If the games ends in 70 minutes, so be it. Just don't artificially shorten games. I don't hear baseball players trying to shorten their games, nor do I hear golfers trying to finish their round earlier. |
| Nov. 28, 2014 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | I'm really not opposed to your wanting more playing action. Maybe we should limit the use of courtesy runners, use the flip flop rule and the 1-1 count. Use these rule modifications and play the full 7 innings WITHOUT a clock. If a team is slow taking the field or a batter is slow entering the batter's box, the umpire should start calling balls or strikes. |
| Nov. 28, 2014 bkb555 301 posts | i don't even consider them courtesy runners, they are more like PINCH runners.....every game I have ever seen a runner used, a faster guy was put on base for the "slower" or "injured" runner.....maybe a limit on the number of times a runner can be used should be limited...maybe only ONE runner per inning...maybe no runners after a certain inning.....obviously, the rule is abused so I don't think the speed of the game time is affected but the SPEED on the base paths definitely is affected.... |
| Nov. 28, 2014 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | In my own situation with my knee replacement, I disagree with just that criteria being if you can make it there you can't get a runner. If I hit a ball off the wall, I could hobble to second, but really needed to get a runner the rest of the way. I would suggest that once a defense is set for the next pitch, that you can not call time to insert a runner. And, no runners can be replaced at any time after the first pitch to the next batter. That runner must now finish running all of the way. It would only take a couple times with guys having to run because a runner was not ready to get teams to have the courtesy runners ready. This is not a big change, but I believe it would allow for more quite a bit more playing time.I even know some coaches who would use this tactic to 'slow down' a game in a situation where it would be an advantage. |
| Nov. 28, 2014 hemi racer Men's 65 237 posts | The last three or four post brings out why I stated there is no way to draft a rule to cover all game conditions, there would be just too many gray areas. Just my thoughts. |
| Nov. 28, 2014 boston Men's 60 355 posts | I see being a courtesy runner almost as a punishment for being in shape. I can only speak for myself and my experiences in senior ball. My comments may offend some but we are here to give are opinions so here goes. I have been in tourneys where I could barely walk after playing OF, running for myself then running for others. On many occasions I would get on base score from 1st or second then run for the guy that got the base hit to score me. I have also seen players jog to first on balls, they may have been able to get to second. basically not exerting any effort since they know they can get a runner. Many of the players we run for are catchers, pitchers, first basemen. Positions where you very seldom have to move a lot. This running also affects the runners ability to perform in the field and at bat later in a tourney. If you have coaches that base everything on BA or OBP Many of the courtesy runners can be left off All-Tourney teams since their BA & OBP fall as fatigue sets in. With that said I understand people want to play and may be physically unable to run. I also understand players have and are coming back from a surgery and want to play. Some guys come back too early knowing they can have a runner instead of waiting for a full recovery. The injury situation is different. Things happen in the course of a game pulled muscles, cramps etc. different situation than aforementioned. I have had 7 surgeries in the past 10 yrs and know how hard it is to want to come back and play. But, something does have to change. |
| Nov. 28, 2014 TaterinGa Men's 50 179 posts | Everybody has pros & cons about every aspect of SSball: but until we have a vote on the rules via Player Polls; you are going to get what is served. I have been advocating this for years in ALL associations. I believe last year a handful of people decided what was going to be changed & what was going to remain. Why have a Winter Summit? Cost a lot of money; most guys still work!! I think there are about 10K members in SSUSA (could be off on this); so that means that less than 1% decided the rules for ALL of us (if 10K is correct). Maybe it would be hard to mass email everyone. OK fine: send an eee to ALL coaches; getting them to contact ALL their players about rule changes; they report their ideas to the coaches; then unto SSUSA. Give the coaches one month to respond with their input!!! Then the majority makes the rules!!! If you do not vote after this scenario; then you have no reason to gripe. I cannot make the summit; ALL of my team mates cannot make the summit; but we can definitely give our opinions to our coach to send into the SUSA!!! LX L |
| Nov. 28, 2014 SSUSA Staff 3483 posts | @Tater in GA • Reprint from another thread: For those interested in providing input for Rules Committee consideration, we welcome your input ... There are three ways to submit items for Agenda consideration ... [1] Attend the open Rules Committee Sessions at the National Convention in Tupelo, MS; [2] Send e-mail correspondence to info@seniorsoftball.com with "Rules Committee" in the subject line; and [3] Send written correspondence by regular mail to the "SSUSA Rules Committee" at 9823 Old Winery Place, Ste. 12, Sacramento, CA. 95827 ... (This one is probably not the best approach as we are leaving for the convention on Sunday, 11/30/14) Message Board posting commentary is disregarded for Agenda consideration by the Rules Committee due to the generally anonymous posting environment and our inability to differentiate between registered SSUSA members and other non-affiliated posters ... Thanks! |
| Nov. 29, 2014 mck71 Men's 60 344 posts | The beginning of this thread was started as "50-55 age group" changes. I have seen that the guys coming up from playing open tournaments into 40 and 50's want limited or no courtesy runners and 1 - 1 counts, maybe the same can be said for 55 and even 60. Being new to the Senior Softball community (this is not only my first year but my first post), I have a very simple question: would there ever be a time where the rules could be changed for specific age groups? (i.e. 1 -1 count and/or limited courtesy runners for 40 - 60 with no changes for 65 - 80?) If there isn't, why not? Honestly, the only reason I could think of would be making sure umpires are aware of the differences but that would no different than them knowing what are the applicable HR's. And apologies to SSUSA Staff if this has been answered before, like I said I am new this year and was just curious. Happy holidays and good luck to all in 2015! |
| Nov. 29, 2014 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | I didn't read the whole thread, but only two players should be designated to be run for at the beginning of the game. The player who runs for them should be the last batted out. If you can play in the field, you can damn sure run to first base. You can do some modifications as the game goes on as long as both coaches agree to same. There are obvious times when a player gets hurt during a game, and needs to be run for, but just putting a faster runner in for the hell of it only takes away from the skill of the game. |
| Nov. 29, 2014 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | I would limit runners in the 50-55 Major and Major Plus. If you can't run are you really a Major or Major Plus player or are you just a good hitter. |
| Nov. 29, 2014 scopes99 2 posts | this was THE major sore point i had in the last 2 yrs i played in a mid-west senior league…I am by no means fast (ok i once was in high school..track team) but that was looong ago. the problem i had with courtesy runners was the abuse of it and also i for one (and this was a personal issue) was being singled out for being "show" however several team members commented on how fast i was for my weight 5' 11" 245 pds…i did have a high OBP but found the "coach" sending someone out to be a courtesy runner A LOT (esp when the game was tight) now what do i do raise a stink hold up the game??? the last straw was my last senior game when he sent out a player slower than me to be a courtesy runner….seems to me unless injury everyone should run and it should be up to the person on base if they request a runner before the first pitch…just my 2 cents... |
| Dec. 4, 2014 laramie55 13 posts | If (so-called) courtesy running was restricted to using only players in the batting order it would reduce the unfairness of having a guy on the roster whose only function is to run. We all have seen the guy ( I didn't say "player") who is trotted out there every inning in the hope that he can score a run when no one else on the team is likely to. Seven innings=improved chance for seven runs. We've all lost a couple hundred games in our lives by seven runs or less. When it's all that player can do with no contribution at bat or playing defense it goes against the spirit of fair play. They're not ballplayers, maybe they can join a senior sprint team. If we draw the line at those who are in the batting order it will cut down on gratuitous courtesy runners, after all under 7.1(1) • BATTER ELIGIBILITY "A team may bat every player in the dugout and on the team roster." There is no reason to have "rabbit only" guys on the roster. We can already have all the EH specialists we want to bat, we don't need to have guys that are "runners only" too. At this point we have scenarios where a guy who only bats gets a hit and is replaced by a guy who only runs. Courtesy running was supposed to be well- a 'courtesy' to the injured or unable to run ballplayer. Now it's a cottage industry for some guys. |
| Dec. 4, 2014 LeeLee50 140 posts | Just my opinion, 2 problems with limiting courtesy runners for M and M+ and players in the line up. 1.Confusion for the Umpires. 2.Time, it will only slow down the game. (substitution's)team will be force to may them for the courtesy runners. |
| Dec. 4, 2014 Mulewhipper Men's 55 128 posts | One courtesy runner per inning...that's it. |
| Dec. 4, 2014 king 44 16 posts | My situation last year I had to have several cortisone shots in my foot to even be able to play. I would rather run for myself but after a couple of games I could barely walk and felt like I was a burden for other players to run for me but I probably would not be able to finish the tournaments. Hopefully the surgery I had a couple of weeks ago will fix my problem for next year. I would suggest to speed up the game to do like our team did and have the courtesy runners ready as soon as time has been called. I also believe like Bruce suggested to make the time limit 90 minutes with all the money the sponsors and players spend to play. |
| Dec. 4, 2014 Robo2 238 posts | This might be a situation that can change with age groups; or decided at the field. I can speak for myself that when I pitch, I wear shin guards. In LV I hit several doubles but immediately took a runner only to be able to start to put on chin guards and save time between innings. One thing that makes sense is that a runner should be ready before the batter gets to a base. Lets face it, everybody on the team knows who needs a runner and where you are in the lineup so have the person ready and save the time. Common sense and common courtesy. |
| Dec. 4, 2014 Tim Millette 615 posts | I would say...only two players can be pinch run for each inning. In the open inning, if the player that was pinch run for earlier in the inning gets on base again he can be pinch run for again. |
| Dec. 5, 2014 CAT 200 posts | Not always is a courtesy runner used for the speed or an injury...years ago, I inserted a courtesy runner in the International Worlds in Manassas, Va in the 7th. inning for the winning run of the championships. He was not, by any means, the fastest but he was the only player that did not have the opportunity to get into that game. He scored on the next hit and we had won the championship. He was just as important of a player as anyone else on the team. To me, that is what senior softball, fellowships, and championship teams are made of... |
| Dec. 5, 2014 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | I like the idea of limiting them somewhat in 50 and 55 Major and Major Plus. While having a lot of big guys that can hit the ball 400ft. is an advantage at the plate when they have to run bases there is no advantage. Seems like it balances things out a little |
