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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 91 anonymousDiscussion: crossing commit line
| Posted | Discussion |
| Jan. 19, 2015 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | crossing commit line what is the ruling for crossing the commit line and going back to 3rd...immediately called out or an appeal play...please ref the rule please..... |
| Jan. 19, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | Runner is called out immediately upon recrossing the commitment line toward 3rd base ... This is NOT an appeal play ... See last sentence of the applicable rule below (emphasis added) ... _________ §8.8 • COMMITMENT LINE A commitment line thirty feet from the scoring line or scoring plate will be used. Once a runner's foot touches the ground on or past this line, the runner is committed to advancing to the scoring line or scoring plate and may no longer be tagged out. EFFECT: Tag of the runner by a defensive player will not be allowed. The runner will be called safe and the ball remains live. NOTE: If a runner re-crosses the commitment line in an attempt to return to third base, he will be declared out and the ball remains live. |
| Jan. 19, 2015 paul0784 Men's 60 218 posts | this happened to us in a tournament game and the third baseman was chasing the runner and he crossed the line and stopped with the third baseman running right into him. the umpire called interference on the third baseman and awarded the runner home late. How does that happen SSUSA? |
| Jan. 19, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | My guess would be that there is to be no contact between the runner and defense between the commitment line and the extra home plate. Per the rule quoted by Staff, "EFFECT: Tag of the runner by a defensive player will not be allowed. The runner will be called safe and the ball remains live." Sounds as if the runner was awarded home because of the contact. This scenario is different from Bob's original question. |
| Jan. 20, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | Paul ... The umpire in your "situation" appears to have invoked an incorrect rule, but with an absolutely correct result ... When your 3rd baseman ran into the stopped runner, he tagged the runner (quite possibly accidentally!), which resulted in the automatic award of home on a safe call for a tag between the commitment line and home ... The base runner's action by stopping dead in his tracks just across the commitment line to create the contact is one of the most heads-up base running plays we've ever heard about ... |
| Jan. 21, 2015 paul0784 Men's 60 218 posts | This happened in the Worlds and in the East/West game of all games. |
| Jan. 21, 2015 paul0784 Men's 60 218 posts | The runner stopped just over the commit line with the third baseman running full steam and tried to go back. So he was stradling the commit line and the third baseman couldn't stop in time and ran into the runner then threw home to the plate but you're right because of the contact he was awarded the plate? I don't think that was fair to the third baseman at all with the runner trying to go back to third. |
| Jan. 21, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | While your fact pattern probably wasn't what was contemplated when the commitment line rules were designed and written, the runner stopping was completely legal ... If he was straddling the line as stated, so long as a foot was down on or down past the commitment line, the runner's option to retreat to third base was terminated ... Thus, the only option for the 3rd baseman to get an out was to toss the ball to a defender at the strike mat ... Tagging the runner, by collision, by accident, on purpose or by trickery results in the safe call by rule for the runner who is deemed to have passed the commitment line ... The runner may retreat toward 3rd base, but he is protected from a tag out so long as he doesn't re-cross the commitment line going toward 3rd base, and if he does, he's immediately called out regardless of a tag or no tag (which was the initial question asked in this thread) ... As we mentioned earlier, this was perhaps the most heads-up base running move we've ever encountered, and will undoubtedly be an educational experience for all who were involved or may have read about it here! ... |
| Jan. 22, 2015 Corky Men's 55 451 posts | Question: (maybe 2) can a runner be tagged in a run down before he crosses the line. (I know it sounds silly if ya know the rules)BUT?.... AND... once he crosses the line he can only be put out by a player with the ball in hand/glove touching home plate? true or false. |
| Jan. 22, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | Corky - Runner can be tagged out in a run down before he crosses the commitment line the first time ... Thereafter, he may not re-cross back toward 3rd base, and may only be put out by a fielder having possession of the ball while in contact with the strike mat (or, in a rare exception, the fielder in contact with home plate itself if the mat has been dislodged from its initial position) ... |
| Jan. 23, 2015 stick8 1991 posts | Staff, in following up on this suppose a runner is trying to score and has crossed the committ line. The throw home is up the line and the catcher goes up to get the throw. In doing so the runner runs into the catcher trying to make a play on the ball like an infielder would. As I read your post that runner would automatically be awarded home scoring a run. True? And if true is the play still live or dead? |
| Jan. 23, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | stick8 ... We may be splitting hairs now to the degree that could result in the perfect unanswerable hypothetical, but here's our (rebbutable) presumption addressing your tweak to the fact pattern ... The umpire should exercise his usual good judgment in evaluating this collision under the interference rules, and decide whether or not the runner had interfered with the defender's opportunity to make a reasonable play on the ball ... We are taking this approach, rather than the obstruction viewpoint, primarily because the runner presumably has a lot of latitude in moving right (or even left) away from the foul line as he nears the scoring plate/line ... Your tweak to the situation differs materially (and decisively in our analysis) from the above discussion, where the runner was stationary and contact was initiated solely by the defender ... We didn't mean to state, or infer, that any contact resulting in a tag between the commitment line and the scoring line/plate results in an automatic safe call, but we would reach, and stand by, that conclusion if the runner was stationary or was overtaken in a "rear end collision", to use an automotive analogy ... Interesting stuff! ... |
| Jan. 24, 2015 B.J. 1105 posts | SSUSA STAFF when reading part b of rule.. it states that the "runner must continue home" once he passes the line...so if the runner has passed the line by several feet then stops and turns back toward 3rd base a couple steps trying to confuse the defense...shouldn't he be called out immediately for not continuing home? |
| Jan. 24, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | @B.J. - You were citing a "Definition" and not the "Rule" ... Regardless, the intent, and therefore our interpretation, of Definition §1.5 - COMMITMENT LINE at sub-part "(b) must continue home" is simply that the next base he may touch is home (scoring plate or line) and he may not return to 3rd. The definitions section of the Rulebook generally defines terms appearing thereafter, and reference to the actual Playing Rules governs, specifically at Rulebook §8.8 in this circumstance. The language of §8.8 does NOT obligate the runner to continue moving toward home without stopping, nor does it prohibit his movement back toward 3rd base short of the commitment line (but it DOES define what happens if he re-crosses that line.) In fact, if the runner's offense were to be either stopping or turning back, the rule would so state, and there would be no need at all for language referencing re-crossing the commitment line. The ONLY place in the rulebook that prohibits a runner from returning toward a base is at §8.3 H., which deals only with returning toward home before legally acquiring 1st base. We're sure you remember the confusion from our typographical error in that section the last time we printed the Rulebook! It is probably best to simply apply the rule as written rather than re-interpreting a definition as to its (presumed?) intent. |
| Jan. 24, 2015 B.J. 1105 posts | Staff thx for your interpretation |
| Jan. 25, 2015 stick8 1991 posts | Staff, that would be the way I'd look at it. A baserunner cannot interfere with a fielder attempting to make a play whether it's accidental or not. This actually happened in a rec co-ed league that I umpire in (they use the same 2nd-scoring plate rule). Girl was attempting to score and ran into the catcher trying to corral the ball. She couldn't stop or shift away and essentially plowed her over--accidental of course. Had to call interference. |
