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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 128 anonymousDiscussion: No batters box, Umpire calling batter out for hitting outside the batters box
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| Sept. 28, 2015 chris7907 2 posts | No batters box, Umpire calling batter out for hitting outside the batters box Hey everyone. First time poster here. I have a quick question. I play in a small beer league at a park near my home. We have foul lines on the field, but there are no batter box lines. I have never seen an umpire call a batter out for stepping outside the batters box while hitting until this last weekend. I always knew the rule existed, but never really seen it enforced. My question is, can a batter be called out in leagues that don't put down batter box lines? We don't have the lines there to help us or guide us, so we feel like it kind of unfair to enforce the rule. Any help or advise is appreciated. Thank you. |
| Sept. 28, 2015 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | lined out or not..the box is still there.....most umps don't/won't call it.....they seem to just let the batter roam where ever they want.... |
| Sept. 28, 2015 DCPete 409 posts | As long as the batter doesn't step on the plate or directly in front of it (or doesn't walk up 10 feet towards the pitcher) the Umpire should Never call the hitter out for being outside the box. This is just another chicken-crap call that an ump would only make if they happen to think they're more important than the players & the game and it's inexcusable on their part. Reality is the box lines are usually gone by the 2nd inning anyway & a lot of them are incorrect in the 1st place as the grounds keepers often put them in based on the baseball specs where home plate isn't part of the strike zone like it is in the Senior game. Last but not least, there's no inherent advantage in the batter being in or out of the box, it's just a personal preference like a lot of pitchers who try to pitch from outside the pitcher's box, which is also not generally enforced as long as they're close. |
| Sept. 29, 2015 Katzy63 Men's 60 24 posts | So any call that has to do with going over and beyond a marked boundary should just be disregarded? Because You think it's a chicken-crap call? Ever get a speeding ticket and tell the cop it's a chicken-crap ticket cause you were only going 5mph over the limit? If so, how'd that work out for you? Since nobody likes the rules that have been in place for decades to be called, why don't we just throw two more defenders on the field and remove the foul lines as well? Hell, since everyone thinks the strike zone isn't what the umpire is calling anyways, let's just put a tee out there for you to hit off of? No more need for an umpire now. |
| Sept. 29, 2015 DCPete 409 posts | What part of the "box lines are usually gone by the 2nd inning" don't you understand? Are you really saying it's OK for the ump to call the batter out because he thinks he may have stepped out of the box even though the lines are no longer there? And who said anything about "any marked boundary should be disregarded"? No one is questioning the Foul lines like Chris7907 said in the start of this thread. Pretty sure the foul lines qualify as a "marked boundary". And no, don't know ANYONE who has EVER gotten a speeding ticket for going 5mph over the limit. We're all out playing ball to have fun hitting, pitching & fielding; no one wants to have an ump take the bat out of our hands because we might have stepped over an invisible line. |
| Sept. 29, 2015 STL0 Men's 60 230 posts | We don't really have all of the details but every time I've see this happen in leagues where no batter's box is marked it is called because someone stepped on the plate or in front of the plate. That's a legitimate call and really no arguing about it. |
| Sept. 29, 2015 chris7907 2 posts | I found this page which claims that it pulled its facts from the ASA rule book. http://www.mscr.org/~mscrorg/images/PDFs/2013%20Commonly%20Occurring%20ASA%20With%20drawing.pdf In it it states: The batter is out and the ball is dead if he/she hits the ball, fair or foul, while his/her entire foot is completely out of the box and touching the ground or is touching home plate at the time of contact. The size of the batter’s box is three feet wide by seven feet long, for both FP and SP play. The front line of the box is four feet in front of a line drawn to the center of home plate. The inside line of the batter's box is six inches from the edge of home plate. The lines of the batter's box are considered inside the box. In cases where there are not batter's lines evident, good judgement must be used and the benefit of any doubt must go to the batter. So according to the ASA when no lines are present any doubt must go to the batter. This is probably where the rule can be hit or miss, because the ump can say there is no doubt in his mind so the ruling will not be in favor of the batter. Where as the batter might say there is doubt and the ruling must go in his favor. IMO if there are no lines, then you should only call player out if he/she steps on the plate. Stepping anywhere else and getting called out is going to cause drama if no lines are present. |
| Sept. 29, 2015 jfsully 82 posts | In most associations (all that I know of) the batter's bx exists whether the lines are visible or not. The batter's box is defined by dimensions NOT just lines on the ground. The ASA point of emphasis says "In cases where there are no batter’s box lines evident, good judgment must be used and the benefit of any doubt must go to the batter. If no contact is made with the ball, there is no penalty." A good comparison is, when the foul lines are erased, does that mean there is no foul line? |
| Sept. 29, 2015 Katzy63 Men's 60 24 posts | If you look at OUR rules, and by that I mean SSUSA, they really want the front line and inside (plate side) lines enforced. Why? Because generally when someone steps past those lines the pitcher is the one in jeopardy. The point I was trying to get across in my previous post was that the culture in our game now is to just let them play, and make as few calls as possible. When you think about a rulebook that consists of a hundred pages, the only things you really want to hear called are balls, strikes and outs. Oh, and the occasional infield fly. Isn't it the umpires job to look for infractions if they do happen? I hate to say how many times I've heard teams scream from the dugout that a guy stepped out of the box, but their view is skewed. Or a pitch is too high or flat. Most of the time the catcher has the same view you do, and laughs about it just as I do. |
| Sept. 30, 2015 joel 1975 131 posts | not only was there no line in front of batter box umpire refused to draw one saying it was his game and he didn't want to.then when ask after the game how far the line is out in front of plat he didn't kno |
| Sept. 30, 2015 OZ40 549 posts | For me to make that call it's got to be so obvious that Stevie Wonder could make that call. It's hard to see the exact moment of contact and whether or not the batters foot was in the box (or in the air) or outside of the box at that same moment of contact with the ball....unless it's obvious. That said, even if it's a beer league, wouldn't you want to practice your tournament hitting style because in the tournaments you stand a better chance of being called out for being out of the box. Why not practice hitting from inside the box? |
| Sept. 30, 2015 Joncon 328 posts | """"Are you really saying it's OK for the ump to call the batter out because he thinks he may have stepped out of the box even though the lines are no longer there?""" Of course it is. If the chalk baselines are gone he still has to make a fair/foul call. But is was probably a chickenshit call :) |
| Sept. 30, 2015 DCPete 409 posts | Can't remember the last time we played on a field with the baselines completely erased; wonder how that could happen? Of course the bases would also have to be missing since they're the primary determinant of whether a ground ball is fair or foul. And you must have some incredibly talented Umps who can determine without any Batters box lines when the hitters foot is 4'6" inches in front of home plate instead of the allowable 4'. Wish we had umps that good . . . |
| Sept. 30, 2015 Joncon 328 posts | """"Can't remember the last time we played on a field with the baselines completely erased"""" That's cause yer old :) Umps must often make judgement calls and we must accept them, sometimes begrudgingly. |
| Sept. 30, 2015 Dbax Men's 65 2100 posts | If you play at Sunset, on the two north fields, there are no fair or foul lines on the outfield grass! Makes for some crazy calls. |
| Oct. 1, 2015 STL0 Men's 60 230 posts | What I have a problem with is teams that purposely remove the front line before they hit and then step way out of the box towards the pitcher. The umps shouldn't let someone step into the box and then swipe their feet over the line with the sole purpose of erasing the line. Most of the time I see this, it's hitters who are really tall. If the line is there, the ump should at least try to keep people from making a mockery of it by erasing it and then stepping a few feet forward out of it. There isn't an option to do that on the turf infields because the box is painted. I saw a lot more out of the box calls at BLD than other fields because of that. |
| Oct. 1, 2015 joel 1975 131 posts | hey most of the ump's we saw in vegas were great,that one guy in the championship of winner's bracket was real bad.but we were warned by the other team (top gun) before the game started not to say a word he was a little general,didn't take long to prove them right. He (MARK SHEFFER)should be banned from championship caliber play,maybe he could work T-Ball see if he could handle tho's mom's there is no line's or batter's box in T-BALL. |
| Oct. 1, 2015 joel 1975 131 posts | katzy63 if your so worried about pitcher use the screen,then it wouldn't matter how close batter was when he hit ball heck even if bat sliped out of his hand screen would catch it,everyone yell's safty but they really don't mean it or pitcher would have to wear shin guard's chest protector & full helment face mask because if you turn your heah with the mask we use now still can get hit in temple area with screen when you stand behind it nothing gets to you. |
| Oct. 1, 2015 joel 1975 131 posts | face protector was word I was looking for it doesn't say head protector there's a reason for that sure your lawyer can explain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Oct. 1, 2015 neck10 714 posts | Joel the screen should be optional pitcher can use if he or she want's it.some people say that if you need screen you shouldn't pitch.well same can be said about artifical knee's & shoulder replacement's but it's the player's choice,as it should be.As for that umpire calling people out of the box when he didn't kno the rule(distance from plate to batter box front line)I went to director's table after game and ask all the umpire's sitting there one question(when was the last time both team's were unhappy with your umping)they all laughed and said never. |
| Oct. 1, 2015 DCPete 409 posts | STL0; It actually says in the SSUSA rules that a batter should be called Out if he deliberately erases the line & ejected for a 2nd offense. But even without any deliberate action, the lines are usually gone by the 2nd inning anyway especially if the boxes have a lot of loose dirt or sand in them like most parks do on the Eastern shore. |
| Oct. 1, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | STL0, we had two called out at Desert Breeze and none at BLD. Imo the umpires were more lenient to that rule at BLD. The umpire that Joel 1975 referred took most of the fun out of the game. I agree that staff should take a close look at him. Our mgr went up to him to get the balls after the game and that umpire just dropped them at our mgr's feet. |
| Oct. 2, 2015 B.J. 1105 posts | calling a batter out for being out of the box...at many tournaments when you see this call being made it is because of pre-game meetings with the tournament director/UIC giving us instruction to monitor this closely...as an umpire if im given a specific item to watch for then during my pre game meeting with the managers I make sure to tell them make sure to tell your players to beware of their positioning in the batters box...that being said...GUYS the box is 3'X 7' don't start off 6" from the front of the box and then stride forward and get pissed for being called out for being called out of the box...and most batters that do this are guys that hit up the middle |
| Oct. 2, 2015 neck10 714 posts | B.J. don't you think it's kind of odd to play softball for 44 years 7 never see a batter called out for stepping out of the front of the box(on the plate yes)then the team your playing come up to you (finals of winners bracket)& tell you not to say anything to umpire or he will eject you.they had a batter the game before called out for stepping out of box(no line in front)then being ejected for confronting umpire.when you cannot talk to an ump and express your opion the umpire should be replaced.both team's Kinnco & Top Gun complained about this guy,we were told don't worry it was his last game what we should have done was walk off field (both team's) and demand another ump.just switch ump's from field next to you ,if problem's go away and other field start's having problem's I guess you would have your answer.if you continue to have problem's on your field maybe you should look into mirrow.each team should have a score card to rate umpire after every game 1 thru 10 grading system then you would have some sort of way of knowing who the better ump's are.If both team's give an ump a bad rating maybe he or she should take a look in that mirrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!also you would never have a mark sheffer(terrible umpire) doing a championship game ever again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Oct. 2, 2015 Turbo 34 Men's 50 47 posts | The problem I have with an umpire calling a batter Out for stepping out of the box when they're no lines visible is the fact the rule states you must be completely out of the box! This means if any part of your cleat touches any part of the chalk line you are not completely out of the box! This rule leaves a lot of interpretation up to the ump and we all know some umpires just love to show up the batter! This call should only be made when the evidence is so obvious that no one would consider arguing the call. If the pitcher has to duck to get out of the way of the batters swing, then the dude was probably out of the box!!! Stepping on the plate is an easy call no matter what the boxes looks like. |
| Oct. 2, 2015 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | If Senior Ball (all Associations) would ever take my suggestion and use today's technology by using something call "YouTube", they could get ALL UMPIRES on the same page for: 1. Correct Arc Heights, Limits and Calls 2. Correct Field Positioning 3. Correct Field Mechanics 4. Rule Interpretation 5. Dress Code 6. Correct Vocal Mechanics 7. Update availability on New Rules 8. Field conduct and presentation Have suggested this to each Association's Regional UICs and National UICs including SSUSA for going on 3-years and still no response. |
| Oct. 2, 2015 B.J. 1105 posts | Neck, I don't disagree with you about it being odd...I do know that there has been an emphasis on keeping the hitters in the box... when there are no lines ...the batter can always ask the umpire to draw them a line....as far as the umpire...as you know there are good umpires and bad ones... |
| Oct. 2, 2015 Mac33 20 posts | There were more than a few guys called out at Fenway at BLD in the 55 Major Division. When we showed up I was warned from a player on the opposing team to be aware of it. He said that he had two called out on his team and there were a few more on other teams (SAME UMPIRE). For the record, I am 6'4" with a very long stride. I usually do not take an extra step but on occasion I will when I notice that the pitcher is hitting the front of the plate pretty consistently. I like to hit higher pitches so... I move up on the plate. Well.. first at bat 3 run HR in the first inning and I was called out. I was not happy, especially after I had played five games on other fields with no problems. I had a few words with him but it didn't matter. I quickly noted that the game was about him and what a great umpire he was. One umpire, two guys on base and I hit one and he's watching my feet instead of the flight of the ball coming in and out? How about the runners? No my feet were more important to him. Needless to say he said well move back in the box. I explained that since the plate is a strike they should have moved the front of the batters box up accordingly. Make the plate a ball and I have no problem with it. Am I wrong to assume that the batters box should be adjusted if the plate is a strike? next three times up I moved back and the pitcher was great at hitting the front of the plate. I asked him for a golf club and he didn't appreciate my humor. We moved to Yankee Stadium and Crosley and I had no problem with the box. Someone on my team took pictures of my lead foot and sure enough I was out of the box by a few inches each time when I moved up on the plate. I guess its me? |
