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Online now: 2 members: Donniesoftball, Smitty 2; 109 anonymousDiscussion: Why have the mat?
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| Nov. 1, 2015 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | Why have the mat? The other thread got locked and for good reason. Too much bickering about a rule actually being "enforced". Go figure Why and when did it become necessary that senior softball uses a mat? Remembered the first time I pitched in senior ball. Nobody told me hitting the mat was a strike. I kept dropping it in the catcher's glove who had placed it on the ground right behind the mat. I couldn't understand why that wasn't getting called a strike.........they were perfect pitches before. Any positive input will be much appreciated. |
| Nov. 2, 2015 DieselDan Men's 75 600 posts | Just my thoughts 37. 1. Simplified calling strikes. Took how different umpires called a similar pitch out of the equation for the most part. 2. In rec leagues, where you might not pay for an umpire, it made it easier for the players who took turns at the plate. 3. I'm thinking the measurement of the plate that someone came up with, if a pitch is thrown between 6 and 12 feet high would land on the plate and go through the strike zone like it would have been called years ago. (I wish MLB called the strike zone as written and not use the catchers glove which is about six feet behind the plate.) |
| Nov. 2, 2015 DieselDan Men's 75 600 posts | Forgot to mention that it helps speed up the game (make up for the players walking back and forth to their positions or dugout!) and cut down on argument time. |
| Nov. 2, 2015 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | Also it gives some of the game back to the pitcher. A pitcher who has good control and can hit the edges of the mat has a little advantage and doesn't have to rely on an ump calling the edges of the strike zone which very few of the do. Also helps the hitters with a consistent strike zone and not where the ump thinks that day. |
| Nov. 2, 2015 Bubble Gum 122 posts | I like the Mat... Now if we can get the Umpires to be more consistent with Pitch Height! |
| Nov. 2, 2015 DieselDan Men's 75 600 posts | Pitch height is tough. After consistently throwing 7-9 feet, the first time the pitcher reaches 11 1/2 feet it might be illegal. Speaking of illegal. It would be nice if illegal pitches would be called at the moment they are illegal (at least for the pitches too high) instead of when the ball is 10' from the batter. Some umps do, but many wait too long I feel. And at least walk out in front of the plate and a few feet towards first before making the call. So easy to be blocked by the runner and defensive player at first to not see and hear the whole play. |
| Nov. 2, 2015 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | I would like on an illegal pitch, if you swing at it due to it not being called promptly enough, the batter should have the option of a ball added to their total count or the results of the batted ball............something similar to catcher's obstruction in baseball. In reality, the umpire has put the batter in jeopardy. How did we ever survive without the mat.[sigh/eye roll] |
| Nov. 3, 2015 19 43 posts | It also results in a one size fits all strike zone, where batters 5'6" and 6'8" have the same size zone. Definitely NOT what the "founding fathers" had in mind. Wayne, ask the kids. They play without one and "survive" quite well. |
| Nov. 4, 2015 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | 19. Agreed. When I could pitch to certain spots back when, it was really beneficial. Now, the batters have most of the advantages with the "senior bats". You only have one zone you can pitch to for the most part. You can even hit a crappy pitch for gapper. Played a lot of U-Trip with my sons team, it was really enjoyable, especially with the 1-1 count to speed up the game. |
| Nov. 4, 2015 joel 1975 131 posts | matt & screen best two addition's to softball ever |
| Nov. 4, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Flip Flop rule, limited runs per inning, time limits and homerun limits are the worst additions to senior softball. |
| Nov. 4, 2015 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Bruce ... On the "flip" side (pun intended), all of those items probably help prevent 3½-hour games, games being played at midnight that were originally scheduled for 4:00 PM and ungodly softball costs (which would be passed on to the teams) ... It's really about reasonable compromise in the spirit of competition for the good of the game as measured by the "we want it ALL" approach to the offense component ... Respectfully ... |
| Nov. 4, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Hi Dave, I expected you, other tournament directors and umpires to disagree with me. I'm sure a compromise would be in order, such as longer game time, more time scheduled between games etc. I don't see a compromise to the flip flop rule. :) I hope you and Fran are doing well! |
| Nov. 4, 2015 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | It's just a mild and respectful disagreement! ... In my (solely personal) view, it's only a handful of teams that give the "flip-flop" rule a bad name ... It's galling to hear a team say "...NO, we're NOT going to F-F ... We need the batting practice!! ..." ... This is from a team that is leading by at least double-digit runs anyway and apparently DOESN'T need it in this game! ... It's a sportsmanship issue in addition to tourney time management ... And, thanks, all is well here with us ... Grandchild #6 is now on the way, so life is good ... |
| Nov. 4, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Here's an early congrats concerning the new grandchild! I have 4. I agree on the respectful disagreement! |
| Nov. 4, 2015 Wayne 37 Men's 65 773 posts | Years ago when playing with the Silverbacks, we were the visitors and scored 27 runs in the top of the all you could get inning. The team we were playing wasn't going to score 27 runs in the whole tournament. If I had the power, I could've hit for the cycle in that inning. |
| Nov. 6, 2015 19 43 posts | joel, no disrespect intended but that might be the worst take I have ever read on here. Or anywhere. Bruce, you are 100% correct. |
| Nov. 6, 2015 neck10 714 posts | dave you need to tell thos guy's like you tell me only your opinion matter's .just tell them there flip flopping. we had a ne team join our league ,we put an egg on them then got our five,went back on defence got another egg started flip flopping they ask me when we were going to bat again ,I told them when they scored we would bat again,thay scored 2 in open inning ,game over but they had fun. |
| Nov. 24, 2015 OZ40 549 posts | I like the mat, we use one made of thin plywood and there is no doubt when the ball hits it, you hear it! |
| Nov. 24, 2015 17Black Men's 60 414 posts | OZ40, One of my weeknight leagues also uses plywood, which eliminates a lot of doubt on if the ball hit the "mat" or not--------we love it (plywood) as an alternative option. Its not perfect, short pitches that bounce just in front of the wood mat, still make the sound of a ball on wood, when the ball bounces back up towards the catcher and clips it. Some balls get called for strikes due to that. (not many but it happens) But its a lot better than no sound at all, and works most of the time. The league I speak of covers home plate with the wood too (I have seen other versions where there is a "cut out" around home plate--------but covering the plate with wood, makes the sound universal in the entire strike zone. |
| Nov. 24, 2015 17Black Men's 60 414 posts | (in response to other posts above) I've also grown fond of the five run per inning rule over the years------definitely keeps games on schedule. I didn't even remember any other way to play until the past couple months and I've only been playing senior ball five years. I played in a young kids league this fall. "U-Trip(USSSUA) rules, Unlimited scoring per inning, live balls, lots of longgggg innings and delays. The 8:30 pm game rarely started before 10PM and usually much, much later. I cant imagine trying to keep to a tournament schedule under those rules anymore (I know we did for years, but we were dumb) |
| Nov. 24, 2015 OZ40 549 posts | 17 black, keep the board clean and if you hear the thud on a front end pitch and there's dirt on the board the ball hit the dirt before the mat. |
| Nov. 24, 2015 17Black Men's 60 414 posts | OZ40 (LOL) We CAN see & hear this---------its the umps that seem to go blank :) |
| Nov. 25, 2015 19 43 posts | So no one minds that guys 5'6" have the same strike zone as someone 6'8"? Just not the way the game was meant to be. A lot of criticism of umps, but almost always they make far less "errors" than the players who criticize them. |
| Nov. 26, 2015 OlyPenSenior 21 posts | The mat simply takes some of the human error out of the game. I'm okay with that. No one likes a missed or bad call going against their team in the heat of battle. I also don't like seeing the catcher positioned close to the "plate" for safety reasons. The wooden "mat" is a good idea. I've played with thick rubber mats (that includes the plate) where a pitch hitting the edge jets-off at a sharp angle clearly indicating hitting it for a strike. And, I agree the unpire's height discretion is always a challenge for the pitcher. It would seem worth it for all to agree on the range visually with warm-up pitches for each team in the first inning. That would cut-down on the complaints during the game. |
| Nov. 27, 2015 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | 19-the game will never be perfect. We are all amateurs,(except for the few paid players), and umpires are hard to find that will take the crap and still try to call. This just takes some of the guesswork out. I think each field should have a 12 tall pole available and before each game they should stand it up between the mound and the plate and let each pitcher throw a couple pitches next to it. I think a lot of players and umpires would be surprised at what they see for height. |
| Nov. 27, 2015 k man Men's 65 326 posts | Webbie, a few years ago, the senior umpire of our league did just that. He brought a paint roller with an extension handle to the field and extended it to 12 feet. And before the game he raised it on the infield to show everyone just how high 12 feet is. I think most players would be surprised and they probably underestimate it to say about 10 feet. The one league I play in is 6' (from the ground) to 12'. While the other league is 4' (from the point of release) to 10'. You should hear the complaining about that when a pitcher almost scrapes his knuckles on the ground and the ball comes in almost modified speed but that's a discussion for different time. |
| Nov. 27, 2015 19 43 posts | Webbie, just wondering what you thought was imperfect about the game in the 70s and 80s. And players have ALWAYS made more mistakes during the course of a game than the umpires they so often want to blame. |
| Nov. 28, 2015 DCPete 409 posts | In our open-age leagues all the umps call balls & strikes entirely on where the pitch lands so the batters height has nothing to do with the strike zone. The mat makes the game more fair for everyone, even the umps. |
| Nov. 30, 2015 OZ40 549 posts | DC Pete, I agree completely. I'm not a pitcher but I respect anyone who can drop an 11 footer over a power hitters back shoulder when he's way up in the box. The board can be used as the great equalizer with a true tournament pitcher. |
| Nov. 30, 2015 southernson 280 posts | I think the mat makes the game easier for the umpires and the players, it hits the mat, it's a strike (as long as it's not 10 ft or more)...Yeah, I know it's 12 ft in SS, but it doesn't get called much except by the real veteran umpires. But there is one pitch that doesn't get noticed much where the mat helps, and that's the inside deep corner of the mat, it actually doesn't even have to cross the plate at all. I've got a lot of guys that let that pitch go, and when they hear the umpire yell strike, you know the next one's going to be 4 inches inside and close to the same area... If you just fouled out, you probably got that pitch. But the mat has actually helped the offensive side of the ball more, as batters now protect that front part of the plate....aggressively. Course there's always Dave, and I have never found out where to pitch him, guys marvel about his swing, and it's truly a killer, but his real secret I think is his position in the box....and with the mat, that's where it all starts, IMO. |
