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Discussion: would like an explanation

Posted Discussion
June 2, 2016
tugboat
37 posts
would like an explanation
Can anyone explain how SSUSA 55Major teams are able to play 55AAA in ISSA tournaments?? I thought there was supposed to be some consistency among organizations???
June 2, 2016
coop3636
393 posts
We can't
We were told that since we are classified in Major in SSUSA, that we would have to play major in ISSA
I would much rather play in a 10 team tourney than in a
2 team tournament.

Brett Cooper
TN Connection 55
June 2, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
SSUSA has to many rules...for example we are a legitimate 55AAA not a 55M, but because one and I repeat one of our friends played 50M+ 2 years ago and SSUSA still have him ranked as a M+ he can only play on a M rated team. So we as a team decided to play 55M on SSUSA so he could play. The other two organizations doesn't have that rule...in reality one player that has not played in over two years should not be expected to make that much of a difference, but SSUSA believe that he does. We can't compete at a 55M we might get lucky and win a game here and there but not consistently. Most likely next year we will not play any SSUSA tourneys unless SSUSA re-rates him and we can play 55AAA. ISSA Salem already has I believe 15 55AAA teams...that is a tourney worth playing. My 2 centavos.

PR Ninja out

JSEUS TE AMA!!!
June 2, 2016
tugboat
37 posts
ISF World Cup in Roanoke... Half the field is SSUSA Major or Major+

55+ AAA Beltway Bandits Centreville, VA Brad Skipper
55+ AAA Buckeye Classics 55s Uniontown, OH 44685 Mike Cairns
55+ AAA Detroit Connection Detroit, MI 48221 Will Washington
55+ AAA Goodman/Tri County Title Aylett, VA 23009 Kenny Crouch
55+ AAA Lewisville Masters 55s Lewisville, NC 27023 Tony Mathews
55+ AAA Olympian Athletics Chambersburg, PA 17202 Mike Keenan
55+ AAA PACS/Preferred Maintenance Fredericksburg, VA Robbie Williams
55+ AAA Phoenix Tube 55s Whitehouse Station, NJ 08876 Dennis M Lake
55+ AAA Pittsburgh North Pittsburgh, PA Stu Johnson
55+ AAA Precision Ford Wake Forest, NC 27596 Willie Medlin
55+ AAA Rochester Genesee 55s Churchville, NY 14428 Rich Schockow
55+ AAA Team Disconnect Berlin, MD 21811 Joey Royster
55+ AAA The Bank Dover, DE John Zimmerman
55+ AAA Woodlawn Funeral Home
June 2, 2016
wagon487
Men's 55
578 posts
seems like this is some thing you should take up with ISSA not SSUSA. Let me guess, you are playing 55 AAA?
June 2, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
Who is the M+ team? Looks to me like they are all Major teams with the exception of us. LOL.

PR Ninja out

JESUS LOVES YOU!!!
June 2, 2016
mck71
188 posts
While I agree that ISSA/ISF are not consistent with SSUSA Ratings, it doesn't mean that all Major teams as rated by SSUSA should beat all AAA rated teams. I would, however, disagree with Paco on his assessment on his team. I believe you won the Tidewater this year in Va Beach beating 3 other SSUSA teams that are rated as Major. So does that mean they are not Major teams as well? You guys also won a few games at Loudoun a few weeks ago, so the teams you beat there, are they not Major teams either? It's slow pitch softball, sometimes you have a good weekend and win and sometimes you don't play so well and lose. Our team got bumped up to Major this year and we went 0 - 3 in Loudon in elim, to me that just means we are not a very good Major team. Bottom line, while winning is def better than losing, I guess I am just grateful to still be playing at my age! Good luck to all on the rest of the 2016 season.
June 2, 2016
titanhd
Men's 50
557 posts
It is common knowledge that the other associations allow teams to play below a teams SSUSA rating.I think the point is that ratings should follow the team no matter which association a team plays.
June 3, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
MCK71, You are correct we won the Tidewater championship against two ISSA 55AAA teams and Omega (the only true M team). I believe Omega did not have all of their players and they had a bad day. Now in Loudon again we won few games we got lucky and beat High Street Bucs by a run again they had a bad day...against the FL team it was not even closed, they abused us and High Street send us home. However with that said we fear no team...My personal assessment is that we are few players short of becoming a competitive 55M, can we play 55M sure any 55AAA can play 55M and win a game or two, but why pay $500 to play the same 3-4 teams...Omega, HSB, Sweet Construction..., when you can pay the same money and play a bracket of 10-15 teams...You decide. This is what is wrong with SSUSA and its ranking we are forced to play major (because of one player) but one of the teams that I mentioned above has one 50M+ and one or two 55M+ players but they are allowed to play 55M...shouldn't they be playing 55M+. We are very inconsistent for example without throwing anybody under the bus, our lead off hitter, he can come up and lead off the game with a solo and then don't get the ball out of the infield...Who ever wins the 55AAA at the Salem tourney, should definitely be moved up. My 2 centavos.

PR Ninja out

JESUS TE AMA!!!
June 3, 2016
BIG-E
24 posts
I've said it before (as many have) and I'll say it again.... None of the Sanctions can properly classify Teams until they start classifying PLAYERS. This may be a time consuming task but not that difficult to do especially with the amount of Money Players/Teams/Sponsors are paying to get in these Tournaments. If all the Sanctions share Player info then Players can be Classified properly. As Paco would say... That's My 2 centavos! ;-) BIG-E
June 4, 2016
curty
Men's 60
174 posts
two points I see here: self evaluation= we are not dominating at our current level so we need to be re-evaluated down. And, he's our buddy, no matter how good he is, so we should be able to have him on our roster & stay at lower level. Both cases are self serving. SSUSA tries very hard to protect lower division teams which is why there are so many lower division teams! My team- Hannington's, from Mass. was moved to M after a good season. Many of our guys felt we couldn't compete-UNTIL WE PLAYED! Winning easily @ local level was not a challenge, now we must play harder. Step up people, and we will have more teams at upper levels. USSSA & ASA did & still do not protect those lower divisions and look where they are.
June 4, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1298 posts
curty, agree with both your points. Theoretically, if teams are accurately ranked, and there are typically 10 teams in your ranking at a tournament, you should win one out of ten times. But a team who loses the statistically predictable 9 out of 10 tournaments feels like they are mis-rated because they are not dominating! There may be a team in that ranking who is winning 5 of the 10 tournaments—that's the team that should be moved up.

I admire teams that are accurately rated, participate in tournament after tournament (there's a team from our area that goes to about 16-18 tournaments a year—possible in sunny northern California with 100 teams), and seldom win. They enjoy the camaraderie, the travel, the exercise, and the game. Of course they play to win, but they usually don't...at least win no more than the normal expectation. I never hear them complain about being rated too high, or wanting a bigger handicap.

June 6, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
Curty, I wonder when you getting that next big contract by stepping up. At this age to me at least is more important playing with good friends and having fun, than stepping up and play with bunch of super stars passed their prime with nasty attitudes. Being there done that...Enjoy playing up, perhaps you are one of those that I just spoke about. I am 55AA player stepping up to AAA so I can play with my friends and one is stepping down. If one player make us into a 55M on the SSUSA eyes and no other association sees it that way so be it, we will play 55M on SSUSA at least at the VA Beach tourney that is local for 90% of the team. Again as mention on my previous post check the roster of one the 55M that wins a lot of tourneys...they are allowed to play 55M...Why? Asked your mighty SSUSA. By the way stop kissing SSUSAs butt. LOL.

PR NINJA OUT

JESUS TE AMA!!!
June 7, 2016
curty
Men's 60
174 posts
paco- I wear braces on both knees, turned 67 this year, and limited in playing time, but still attend every tourney my team goes to (60M). Why do you think this is so? Because I love my " guys" like family. We have been playing together since the boys were 50 yr olds ( me @60), longer for some. We rarely have attitude problems & if we do I'm the cause because I know we are capable of playing & winning @ the upper level. As a former tourney director/league director the most common complaint- which you also expound- is that "we" are not able to compete at upper level(we want to be assured that we can win) Also, recently witnessed another association tourney @ which 2 teams dominated against the rest of the division, only to hear a multitude of complaints that those teams" don't belong in this division." Would you have the rest of the field drop down? I believe the classification system should/could be improved, but allowing better teams to dominate IS NOT the answer. That's my reasoning to support SSUSA. I don't worry what other teams are doing, only what my team does. Winning at the lower level was much easier, almost assured. But we are not willing to break up because of a move up. See ya on the field-- hope to meet soon, & continue this discussion?
June 7, 2016
SSUSA Staff
2758 posts
tugboat ... There's been a lot of commentary on your question, but it's really pretty simple ... While ISA, SPA and SSUSA regularly consult with each other regarding consistency in team ratings, ISSA does not participate in those discussions ... They are certainly not obligated to do so and are free to make their own classification decisions ... Your inquiry may be more likely of receiving an accurate explanation if raised with ISSA directly ... Good luck this Season!
June 7, 2016
ChileHead
29 posts
To my friend Paco13... since being designated a 55 major team, you've won what? Two or three SSUSA tourneys right? Now you're only AAA? C'mon bro... after the abuse your manager gave me for being forced to play AA in one ISSA tourney last year, you can bet I'm going to pile it on him in Salem. It's absurd to self rate down just to win.
June 8, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
Chilehead, Sir. We play at the level that each Association put us in. We fear no team. Our leadoff batter is a stud...LOL. C U in Salem are you finally moving up to AAA or are you going to continue to collect AA trophies...LOL. Nothing but Love.

PR Ninja out

JESUS TE AMA.
June 8, 2016
joel 1975
131 posts
you guy's are too funny when are you going to realize it's all about the money.I kno guy's who ranked major plus last year in ssusa that got put down to AAA(SPA) that banker & man team was 55 major SSUSA last year but played most of there tourney's in 55 AAA SPA because they played five tournement's. Paco 13 you only have to play down 3 yr's then you are lowered & it was your choice,I kno a good 60 major team that got put up to 60major plus this year and didn't win anything to get put up there only difference Ive seen them twice & haven't heard them whine about it.
June 8, 2016
Sparky.1
Men's 65
270 posts
I agree with you Joel 1975 and it was "Banker & Mann" not "Banker & Man" and is a major reason why neither of us are involved with sponsorship this season.

"the Rattlesnake" (just for Dave) [grins]
June 10, 2016
miken44
89 posts
why can't spa and issa and ssusa get together if a team is rated aa or what ever in one association why not be rated the same in all then when you would play a tournament there should be no higher ranked team playing in that tournament but it is still money that allows teams to play down because all associations want the money
June 13, 2016
ChileHead
29 posts
Paco, my friend. I requested SSUSA to move us UP to AAA in 2014 and they obliged. In 2015, SSUSA had us at AAA all year, and we won the Tidewater, then won the Eastern nationals. RB designated us 55 AA for the ISSA Worlds last year, in spite of what was on our entry form, over my protest and two phone calls after winning the AAA Easterns. He actually told me he thought we were still one of the weaker teams in the bracket, because of the teams that were allowed to play AAA.... So, we sucked it up and won there too. Then came in tied for 5th in Las Vegas last Fall in AAA. Your team is a major team, you win at that level and request to play DOWN? Seriously??? Peace out...
June 13, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
Mi querido amigo, We don't ask where to play, we play at what ever division we are told to play. In SSUSA we play 55M as well as 10 other teams going to Salem/Roanoke playing 55AAA under ISSA. We have not play any SPA tourneys this year, but we are also rated 55AAA. Please don't forget that we must play 55M under the SSUSA rules because of our friend that was rated 50M+ two years ago and has not played for the last two years. In Tennessee this weekend we were sent home on Saturday, playing 55AAA. Please read my entire posts...so you can understand...Look at the team that came to the beach 3 of them are rated 55AAA under ISSA the only true 55M was Omega and they were missing some of their guys...Relax Papi, your whipping is coming in Salem...LOL.

PR Ninja out

JESUS LOVES YOU
June 13, 2016
tugboat
37 posts
Still confused!! This is the only site that has a forum. Looking back at the Atlantic coast tourney. High Street, Omega and Sweet played Major along with 10 other teams. Those 3 are Major in Salem, how did 7 of the other teams move down to AAA. I would think you would keep ALL of them in Major or move ALL of them to AAA. What am I missing????
June 13, 2016
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3186 posts
Tugboat, I haven't read all posts on this thread but to answer your latest post, the tournament in Salem (I assume you mean the one in a couple of weeks) is an ISSA tournament. The roster for that tournament is not necessarily the same at their SSUSA roster. So, teams could load up with different players in Salem.
June 14, 2016
SSUSA Staff
2758 posts
tugboat ... You are likely "missing" the circumstance that ISSA does NOT consult with SSUSA, SPA or ISA regarding team rankings and, as Bruce mentioned, one by-product of doing their own thing is that ISSA roster composition can (and probably does) differ ... Again, the best place for you to get a definitive explanation is by contacting ISSA directly ... Good luck!
June 14, 2016
mck71
188 posts
tugboat, you have been given excellent advice by few on this thread. My only additional comment would be to your statement "other teams move down to AAA". What you may feel to realize is that some of us just never got moved up by ISSA like we did for SSUSA. The teams you listed above that are listed as Major in ISSA must have been moved up from AAA at some point for a reason by ISSA management. They have their set of guidelines/rules as to when they move up teams to Major and in their eyes, some of us (I only count 5) haven't met that criteria so they felt we didn't need to be moved up, pretty simple actually. That said, with such a big turnout for this tourney, the team that wins could very well be moved up to Major, might even be you guys! Good luck to all, again I am just grateful to be playing.
June 14, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
I am not sure what the big issue is about a label of AAA or major. Very simple two different associations two different ratings. However, at the end the competition still the same, 55AAA in ISSA is equal to 50M on SSUSA at least on the East coast with few exceptions. Heck let HSB, Omega, Sweet...play 55AAA on ISSA and I guarantee you that they will not dominate, just as they don't dominate on 50M on SSUSA. Why play on a 3-4 teams tourney when for the same money you can play on a 14 teams bracket. The money for ISSA still the same regardless where division you play as long as you play. Done with this...Good luck to all in Salem/Roanoke. There is a team that might get another hat...LOL.

PR NINJA OUT

JESUS TE AMA
June 15, 2016
tugboat
37 posts
I agree... RB let high street, omega and sweet join in and make it a grand party!!!!
June 16, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
Tugboat, That is a great idea, however I don't believe that it will happen, It has my unconditional endorsement the more the merrier but I have no say so. Knowing some of the players on those teams they will not belittle themselves to play AAA. It will be interesting, but it won't happen. Good luck and be safe.

PR NINJA OUT

JESUS LOVES YOU
June 17, 2016
ChileHead
29 posts
Paco, you are dead wrong about one thing. In ISSA, teams are allowed to rate themselves on each tourney application form. That's why teams like yours can drop down a level. Our bracket in Salem is us, and three SSUSA major teams, including yours. This is why we don't play many of their tournaments AND why SSUSA is a distinctly better run group, in terms of competitive play.
June 17, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
ChleHead, I strongly suggest you read before you make any more stupid comments...First of all we are a brand new team. Please explain to me how we dropped a level when we are legitimate 55AAA in the contrary we move a level because of the one 50M+ player SSUSA rated player. Our first tournament as a team was the VA beach tourney last year and we did not do good at all. We played in MB on a 4 team bracket and we won, again we play in MB in March on a 4 team bracket and we won. The last tourney that we won was the SSUSA 50M tourney at the beach in which two of the 4 teams were the same that we have played before at MB. Omega was the only true major team. The last two tourneys that we played did not make into Sunday. Thanks for thinking so high of us, I truly appreciated. Yes I played 50M 7 years ago and since then I have only played 50AAA or 55AAA and the other rated player that we have on the team is the one that SSUSA rate him as M+. How in the heck that make us in a 50M. Again thanks for the accolade hopefully will not disappoint you...Forrest Gump said it best...STUPID IS WHAT STUPID DOES!!!LOL. if you are scared say that you are scared...

PR NINJA OUT

JESUS LOVES YOU!!!
June 17, 2016
ChileHead
29 posts
I think you know better than that Paco. And I'm not sure why you resort to name-calling. See if I give you a beer next time you ask! The rules are there for a reason so teams can't sandbag which is exactly what you guys are doing. Ask Larry
June 17, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
WOW, I still want a cold beer but this time I want to open it myself. LOL. Relax Papi, I love you.

PR NINJA OUT

JESUS TE AMA!!!
June 18, 2016
Paco13
424 posts
I was done with this, but I just can tolerate being accused of sandbagging. ChileHead I asked you to read and educate yourself but you decided to make stupid comments without merit just out ignorance or perhaps jealousy,,,Let me explain something to you. Read the SSUSA rules about new teams; which we are...All teams unless based on their roster are to start as AAA team...Any rated M+ player can only play on a major team...Comprende amigo? SSUSA as per their rules had us rated 55AAA until our coach decided to add our friend (a SSUSA 50M+ rated player). We had two choices play 55AAA and not have him on the team or add him and take our chances playing 55M at the Beach tourney which is local tourney for most of us. We made the right decision and play 50M so he could play...I believe must teams will make the same decision. We got lucky and won a 4 team bracket 50M tourney which two of the teams are also rated 55AAA under the other two assoc...Since you are son into our business, please explain how in the heck we are sandbagging...I expect and apology for your stupid comments and false accusation...Are we clear crystal clear...Is nothing wrong with being ignorant is when people act on their ignorance that it becomes an issue...My friend you acted on your ignorance and you have a problem. Done with it.

PR NINJA OUT

JESUS LOVES YOU!!!
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