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Discussion: Money Taken

Posted Discussion
June 6, 2016
BIG-E
21 posts
Money Taken
Hi All - I'm putting this out there because I feel that My Team and one of my Team's Sponsor’s was taken advantage of. I understand rules & guidelines and I know they get broken and followed when it’s convenient for some parties and when there is money involved. One of my Team's Sponsor's recently paid & entered our Team into an SSUSA Tournament, which was a few days after the deadline - we were kind of short on Players but finally were able to get 11 Players to commit and confirm so SSUSA approved our Roster and we entered the Tourney, again after the deadline. A few days later which was 10 days before our Team was scheduled to play in the Tournament, 2 of our Players had to back out due to emergencies with their work & family. We immediately informed SSUSA verbally & via E-Mail and asked to be taken out of the Tournament and to be able to use the $535 fee that was paid for that Tournament and use it towards future SSUSA Tournaments. They immediately took us out of the Tournament but refused to give us any reimbursement claiming a Sub-Contractor does their Scheduling and that this is the fee they are charged! Well – That’s ridiculous as far as I’m concerned! Another E-mail was sent asking the “Higher Ups” for reconsideration which was never answered and Our Team Manager attempted to talk to one of the “Higher Ups” and was told he would have to wait 4 days to speak to that someone. 4 days later after speaking to that “Higher Up” It was then that a decision was made to give us a $100 credit towards our next Tournament thus SSUSA still keeping $435!!!! WOW!!!! IS THAT FAIR??????!!!!!!! Again – In my eyes that is Quite Ridiculous!
So from this experience - It’s obvious what Teams need to do if you get into this type of situation – Stay in the Tournament – don’t inform SSUSA on anything about backing out - do what you can, up to the last minute to recruit players and getting them approved – if you have no luck then don’t show up at the Tournament & Kiss Your Money Goodbye! Or simply don’t get into SSUSA Tournaments. My Team made a decision to play in one more SSUSA Tourney to get $100 of our $535 back then we will most likely play in the other Sanctions when possible. What a Terrible way to treat Players, Teams & Sponsors that have been faithful Customers to the Sanction for years! Reminder SSUSA – this is a game of Softball – for Fun & Recreation – I believe SSUSA takes all the Fun out of it when things like this are done to Players, Teams & Sponsors! I now see other Posts complaining about SSUSA and their Rules, Team Classification, Practices, etc… I see the other Sanctions making it better for us over here in the Eastern part of the USA – That’s the direction I will suggest any Team to go in until SSUSA decides to get off their high horse and be helpful and understanding to the Players, Teams & Sponsors.
Just saying……

BIG-E
June 6, 2016
Joncon
328 posts
What does your contract say about refunds?

That's really the only thing that matters.
June 6, 2016
BIG-E
21 posts
Agreed - if all contractual rules were followed - however they are not - I know plenty of Teams that have gotten refunds or breaks on the rules in the past. In this particular situation the Schedules were not even posted yet. Still no way to treat Customers!

BIG-E
June 6, 2016
Joncon
328 posts
A business has to make the decision on how to handle things like this. I have been in the same basic situation in my business and you need to address each case on an individual basis.

Sometimes you decide on a full or partial refund/credit and sometimes you take a hard stance.

No one can really form an opinion without all the facts from both sides. I'd suggest that you just consider it tuition.

You can express your opinion on how you think they should run their business but, it is their business to run. They might think you should have read the contract before you paid :)

Hey, it's only money and you can't take it with you. :)
June 6, 2016
BIG-E
21 posts
With all due respect Joncon - not sure who you are or why you're even chiming in this sounding like your defending SSUSA but I guess that's your prerogative. I definitely don't need schooled on Business practices 101. FYI - I'm a successful Business owner Sir and have been for many years and there's a reason for that. In my world if I treated my Customers like that - well eventually I wouldn't have any Customers thus no Business. Most Good Business People cater to thier Customers - without the Customers and their good referrals most Business's are doomed. In this situation it's more about the Principle of the matter not the Money - however that amount of money does hurt a Team - or at least it did ours! Read the facts carefully Sir and ask yourself - So it was OK for SSUSA to take our money past the Deadline but not to refund it after the Deadline? Sounds like a Double standard maybe? Again.... just saying. Thank you for your input Sir. Be well.

BIG-E
June 6, 2016
titanhd
Men's 50
545 posts
Sub -Contractor does the scheduling? Which Tourney are you speaking?
I thought Dave Dowell does all of the scheduling?
June 6, 2016
titanhd
Men's 50
545 posts
BIG-E You stated that you entered "after the deadline".

Refund policy: Entry Fees are non-refundable after the deadline. Full refunds are given to teams withdrawing BEFORE the deadline. NO refunds are given after the deadline.

Take the 100.00
June 6, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2549 posts
titanhd ... I am that independent contractor ... I am not a W-2 type employee of SSUSA and my firm charges them for all services I provide of any nature, including tournament schedule re-writes when a team withdraws after they have been generated ...
June 6, 2016
BIG-E
21 posts
I don't believe it matters what Tournament it was but it was a recent larger Tournament (if that matters in some eyes). SSUSA had 12 Teams in our age/class and they had to take it to 11 Teams after I notified them.....Let's see if I can make my point a bit clearer - "Deadline" means = "the time by which something must be finished or submitted or the latest time for finishing something:" So a rule was broke or bent to take our Team Money and let us enter "After the Deadline". A few days later we had 2 Players having to drop out due to circumstances beyond their control. I notified SSUSA immediately - The Schedules were not posted on the site at this time when I notified SSUSA - so the Scheduler (no matter who it was -"A W2 Employee or an Independent Contractor") had to re-do/re-write a 12 Team Schedule to an 11 Team Schedule. Now - That's not that difficult of a task to do manually and even easier with today's programs/apps. So I was told a $535 charge for this Service???? Ridiculous!!! I can understand maybe $100 or even a $150 Admin Fee but $535 for this - again Ridiculous!!! Highway Robbery!!!! So the rule could not be broke or bent in this instance??!!I only asked SSUSA to let us get in our next Tournament (which had a lower entry fee) with no charge - still NO for answer. Again - After our Manager spoke to a "Higher Up" they finally agreed to give us a $100 credit on our next Tourney which we took this past weekend and decided we are no longer Playing SSUSA for this type of treatment. Again - Nice way to treat long term Players?! - Teams?! - Sponsors?! which have ALL BEEN LOYAL,GOOD PAYING, LONG TERM CUSTOMERS. "BAD BUSINESS"!!! Just saying......

BIG-E
June 7, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2549 posts
Big-Elliot ... It was the Atlantic Coast Championships ... Here's how the "deadline" system works: On the published deadline date (two weeks before tourney Day 1, except for larger events of 100 or more teams, which is three weeks), entries close ... The SSUSA office then calls all teams that have not yet paid their entry fee, not yet submitted their tournament roster, or both, and we publish the teams entered list ... We refer to this internally as the "soft deadline" ... The subsequent calls to managers sometimes result in teams dropping out for any number of reason ... And sometimes, which we believe is the case here for ESB Renovations, teams decide after seeing the list that there are enough teams in their bracket that they want in, too! ... The roster/eligibility people at SSUSA then review and establish the divisional breakouts, starting with Session #1, the 65+ and more senior age groups, and release that to me for schedule preparation ... This becomes the "hard deadline" for that session, and the same process is repeated for Session #2 ...

It was during the Session #1 processing that your team asked to enter the event ... With the luxury of 20-20 hindsight, we made a mistake by granting your request to enter late, since I hadn't begun the Session #2 scheduling process and could fit you in ... I completed the Session #2 schedule on Saturday and the final review was to occur first thing Monday morning, but the email withdrawal was sent to an address that is not monitored on weekends ... So I re-drafted, and charged SSUSA for, the Session #2 schedule ... Not that it matters, but you do not appear to be fully familiar with the bracket logic and structure of three-game-guarantee brackets ... In the case of a standard double elimination bracket, the fix would have been simple from 12 to 11 teams, just dropping a game here and there, fixing the seeding games you would miss and creating forfeits in the bracket ... Such is not the case for 3GG brackets, causing an extensive re-write that affected multiple divisions of play ... The cost of this re-write, which I charge to SSUSA, is why a team that withdraws after the schedule is prepared forfeits their entry fee ... Hope this helps you in understanding what actually happened and why ...

June 7, 2016
BIG-E
21 posts
Dave your facts are wrong Sir - I fully understand and know all Bracket Logic - Not my first Rodeo Sir - And I did not send an E-Mail to an address not monitored - in fact I didn't send it over the weekend at all! I verbally called & spoke to George then sent the E-Mail as requested. Please get your facts straight Sir - I really don't care what excuses you or SSUSA come up with - It's down right wrong taking our Money like that! I will continue to inform and caution other Teams in my area of this action so that they may be aware of it and so that they may find other Sanctions to Play Sr. Softball with. End of story......

BIG-E
June 9, 2016
BIG-E
21 posts
I must chuckle a bit..... I've had Phone Calls, Texts, E-Mails, Facebook Communications and People/Players coming up to me in person at my Area Softball Fields commending, talking, asking questions, agreeing with this Post and sharing their similar experiences with SSUSA with me. Well - I say Thank You! I really appreciate that - I really wasn't looking for Kudos - I just sharing something that I believed was wrong. I strongly believe it would be really nice to see that type of communication, support, sharing similar experiences by replying on this Post so others can see it. Then maybe - just maybe.... SSUSA can realize/admit a glitch in their ways of running a Softball Sanction and doing business then hopefully it can make a difference and better this Sanction for Teams/Players/Sponsors,(SSUSA Customers) in the future.

Thanks again,

BIG-E
June 12, 2016
Joncon
328 posts
"""not sure who you are or why you're even chiming in this sounding like your defending SSUSA"""

I'm just another old softball guy and I'm "chiming in" because this is a discussion board.

Discussion goes both ways. I'm not defending SSUSA, I'm simply saying that it was likely spelled out in the contract.

It seems as you are trying to present a case that the contract is void but I didn't see anything to convince me.

Then you are trying to convince me that you should be in charge of how SSUSA runs it's business.

I've determined that you are just deflecting the blame.

Also, your dismissive attitude and sarcasm speak volumes about you and pretty much negates any true or positive things you might have to say.
June 12, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2549 posts
Joncon ... It was a bit educational for us, too ... We were again reminded that letting a team in late as a favor (against our normal policy) AFTER the deadline isn't always the best idea ... Especially when the team waits until the schedules have been drawn to subsequently withdraw ... We'll toss this in the folder marked: "..No good deed goes unpunished.." ...

June 12, 2016
BIG-E
21 posts
Be Well - Joncon & DaveDowell - I mean no harm to anyone - never have - never will - it's obvious by the amount of posts that you all have you like to either "Stir the Pot" or just "Be Heard". I posted these facts not to Win anything - just to inform & warn other Softball Players / Teams & Sponsors on how SSUSA can make a decision to bend & break the rules when it benefits them and NOT their Customers - its that simple gentlemen.

I'll toss this in my folder marked "If They Only Had A Clue".

😉 BIG-E

June 12, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2549 posts
Pssstt ... The rules were bent in favor of YOUR TEAM ... Had we not let you in late (our mistake), you couldn't have bailed out (your mistake) after the schedules were drawn .. Doesn't get any more simple than that ... Good luck, have fun and play safely wherever you play ...
June 12, 2016
BIG-E
21 posts
Ha! Ha! Really Dave? Just had to come back again and comment? CYA Maybe?! LoL! A bit of Guilt maybe?! OK I'll chime in one more time for you Sir - So You Say the "Schedules were Drawn". There's No Proof that "Schedules were Drawn" - The Schedules were NOT Posted - So they're Not Drawn in our eyes or anyone else on the outside looking in. - Our Mistake was simply being Honest and promptly informing SSUSA we had 2 Players who couldn't make it. As previously stated - we should of NEVER informed SSUSA at all - we should have just tried to pick up players, get them approved & limp in the Tournament or just not show up at the Tournament at all. It doesn't matter cause.... SSUSA WILL KEEP YOUR MONEY FOLKS! Now that's as simple as it gets Sir. Good Luck & have Fun with your Scheduling and people who Post on here and all your future endeavors.

😉 BIG-E
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