https://www.vspdirect.com/softball/welcome?utm_source=softball&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=partner

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 2 members: Eaglesnest63, THE SITUATION; 70 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: A Question For You BAT GEEKS?

Posted Discussion
Sept. 21, 2016
Bubble Gum
122 posts
A Question For You BAT GEEKS?

I am interested in getting some info about End Load Bats. I know end load bats have extra weight in the upper barrel area of the bat. This extra weight can be anywhere from a 1/2 ounce or more (like the 1 ounce end load in the Miken Big Cat model bat or Rocket Launchers ? ounces). A bat gets it's over all weight in the handle. Example: a 26 ounce bat will have less weight in the handle than a 30 ounce bat. So as I understand it the only difference between a 26 ounce end load and a 30 ounce end load is in the weight in the handle of the bat, YES?

If that is true then how much of that extra 4 ounce weight (the difference between 26 and 30 ounce) in the handle of the bat is actually transferred to the barrel when bat meets ball? Especially when the barrel lags behind the handle?
Sept. 21, 2016
B94
Men's 50
138 posts
You really need to look at the balance point of the bat to get an idea of how truly end loaded the bat is. The length of the barrel, thickness of the handle, etc all play into this...
Sept. 21, 2016
Bubble Gum
122 posts

I would guess the heavier bat would have the balance point closer to the handle than the barrel. And the lighter bat would make the end load more noticeable because of the end load weight at the barrel end of the bat.

Sept. 22, 2016
Tri18
333 posts
Bubble Gum,
You are correct to a point but depending on the engineering of the bat and the company producing it there are differences in how weight distribution is created in the bat. Putting too much weight in the handle can negatively affect what the bats potential is. There are also different flex points from bat to bat depending on layup and thickness in those regions. Engineers these days have to really fine tune ALOT of variables to get a bat that feels good, swings good, and performs well. Obviously we have some talented people in that area with the premium selection of bats we seniors have to pick from these days.

AT18
Team 1 Sports
Sept. 22, 2016
Bubble Gum
122 posts

Thanks for your info...
So when 2 bats are exactly the same except for different weights the balance point is the only difference. Is it better to have the balance point closer to the barrel?

Why I am asking is because I've been looking at the 25 ounce Adidas Melee end load and trying to find out what is gained or lost when compared to a 28 ounce Adidas Melee end load. Does the weight difference really make much difference when bat meets ball?





Sept. 22, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
From the geek perspective.
The amount of endload will significantly affect the moment of inertia (MOI)of a bat.
The more inertia and resulting momentum you can bring to impact of ball/bat collision the greater the exit speed/ distance of the ball.
The MOI is the resistance you feel when you try to swing the bat as fast as possible. So, with increasing MOI, bat speed tends to decrease. We would all like to maximize both, so it's a bit of a balancing act depending on the individual.
As B94 suggested the location of balance point is a good indicator of the amount of endload. Multiplying bat weight x balance point distance is a good method to find bats with similar swing behavior and similar MOI (something that only a few vendors like tri18 and Tatooball are willing to offer )
Lots of differences in bats and what goes into a good one.
I will leave you to the opinions of good hitters with better experience as to which is the best bat.
But once you start shopping for a particular "size" that suits your style, MOI is the best way to keep "apples to apples" comparisons.
IMO, but mostly obtained from grownups cited in open literature, paid to do the analysis you are referring to.
Regards,
Bill


Sept. 22, 2016
Bubble Gum
122 posts

Thanks for your reply

I think comparing the 25 ounce Adidas Melee end load and the 28 ounce Adidas Melee end load is comparing apples to apples. Both bats are 34 inches long and have the same end load weight located in the same part of the bat barrel. If the over all weight difference is in the bat handle which is about 1.5 to 2 feet from the barrel, how much does that change the MOI between the two bats?

Not being a "bat expert", I would guess the heavier bat has no big advantage since the end load weights are the same, and that is where the barrel contacts the ball.



Sept. 22, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
Your last questions ,in order :
.."
So when 2 bats are exactly the same except for different weights the balance point is the only difference. Is it better to have the balance point closer to the barrel? "

I believe that it's the product of weight and balance point that contribute most to the MOI of a bat. Manufacturers have the flexibility to mix-and-match both for any particular shell design


..."
Why I am asking is because I've been looking at the 25 ounce Adidas Melee end load and trying to find out what is gained or lost when compared to a 28 ounce Adidas Melee end load. Does the weight difference really make much difference when bat meets ball?"

Most likely, you will be able to swing the 25EL faster than the 28EL.
The difference is significant and you will easily notice the effect.
The resulting gain or loss in pop will depend on how much bat speed is sacrificed when increasing weight (MOI)

When you become old and feeble like me, A lot of variables prevent you from swinging as fast as physically possible . No fast twitch muscles and the onset of senility keeps swinging at the same speed regardless of bat weight. So bigger MOI always gives me more pop. However, lower MOI gives more control for more consistent contact. Devil is always in the details .
-bill
Sept. 22, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
to add some specifics related to me.
I have a 27 oz balanced bat that I can swing at 75mph ( sometimes 80) .
Off the T, the ball will travel approx 275.
A 27 oz endload ( same brand ) will limit my bat speed approx 3-7 mph
But off the T , I will get another 15-20 ft and sometimes hit 300 ft

If you are looking for an additional 15 ft. ... There will be a huge difference when comparing 25 to 28 oz anything. If you want more ( or less) it may not really matter.

When the big kids swing at 100 mph, everything they swing goes over a 300 ft fence.

No worries
It's still fun
Bill
Sept. 22, 2016
Bubble Gum
122 posts

Sir
I think your knowledge of bats is good enough for you to be considered a legitimate "Bat Geek"!

Thanks....
Sept. 22, 2016
Bubble Gum
122 posts

Based on your experience with 27 ounce bats, what results would you expect or predict to get if you were to test the 25 ounce Melee end load?



Sept. 22, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
By now, lots of seniors that I play with have tried the new Melee in balanced and end load. Most are either 27 or 28 oz.
The consensus is similar to what others have posted here. This is/ will be a very popular bat for seniors.
My personal feeling is that I don't have enough bat speed due to lack of talent or technique to take full advantage of such a light bat.
I believe that the 26 oz end loaded Melee would have a MOI slightly higher than the 27 oz balanced with similar behavior.
If you currently have good experience with any 25 oz bat flavor, the Melee would be a good choice..
If you have doubts about which "size" bat suits you, I would do my best to make a guest appearance at one of the senior league batting practice sessions and try a few flavors.

IMO, 25 oz is very light unless excessively endloaded like the rocket launcher..
My guess is that the 25 oz Melee is good for small players that routinely hit the infield gaps for singles. Or big guys with very fast hands.

I suppose You could still buy 3 or 4 rocket launchers in different weights.
Take advantage of the money back guarantee once you decide which suits you best.

Otherwise it's probably time for Alan (AT1) to step in and help talk you off the ledge.

-Bill
Sept. 22, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
http://forums.softballfans.com/threads/checking-endloads.1423283/#post-18679568

The above link has a chart with numbers comparing swing weight and moi for a small assortment of bats. It will not tell you which MOI is best for you .
But it will help you sort one from the other once you decide.
Very geeky, but I can help you with the numbers if interested.
Sept. 22, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats/bbs-asa.html

Only because you asked.:
This is what ASA ( and SSUSA ) thinks will happen to your swing speed as you choose bats with different MOI

The manufacturers sell bats by different weights.
But the testing to have them approved for play in ASA evaluates them according to their MOI
Sept. 23, 2016
?
121 posts
Besides having better bat control, the light bat makes it easier to consistently get the same bat speed time after time with very little variation. I have used a light bat on a bat speed meter and noticed that I can get 10 swings in a row with the speed readings of 76 or 77 mph. I'm not near that consistent with heavier bats.
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Email: info@SeniorSoftball.com
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
9823 Old Winery Place, Suite 12
Sacramento, CA 95827
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts international softball tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners