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Online now: 3 members: Boom66, TABLE SETTER 11, kotonk; 104 anonymousDiscussion: rule clarification II
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| Oct. 26, 2016 stick8 1991 posts | rule clarification II Kind of an easy one but here it goes: A4 is on third, A3 is on second and A2 is on first. Based loaded, no outs. A1 hits a ground ball to third. Third baseman steps on third for force, throws to second for force, throw to first, batter runner (A1) beats it out--safe. Runner A4 scores. Now there are two outs and 1 run scored.Before the next batter comes up the defensive team manager goes to the umpire and claims that A1 batted out of order. They check the scorebook and its determined A1 did bat out of order. What is the correct penalty? |
| Oct. 26, 2016 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | Not as easy as you might think Rule If a batter bats out of order, this is an appeal play, which must be brought to the umpire's attention. If it is detected while the incorrect batter is at bat, the correct batter assumes the count and all plays made will stand. If it is detected after the incorrect batter has completed their turn at bat and before the next pitch (legal or illegal), the improper batter’s time at bat is negated, the batter who should have batted is out, any advance or score made because of the improper batter's advance is negated, runners not called out must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch, however runners put out on the play remain out. The next batter is the player whose name follows that of the player called out for failing to bat. If the error is discovered after the first pitch to the next batter, the turn at bat of the incorrect batter is legal, all runs scored and bases run are legal and the next batter shall be the one whose name follows that of the incorrect batter. No one is called out for failure to bat. No base runner shall be removed from a base to bat in his/her proper place. They merely miss their turn at bat with no penalty. So in you play the runner at that scored would be put back at third and not count, The two outs that were made on the play are still credited and the batter that was suppose to bat is out. 3 outs no body scored the batter that did not bat misses his at bat that round and whoevers name that is listed after the batter that did not bat leads off the next inning |
| Oct. 26, 2016 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Had a similar situation in a tournament recently, but I suspect it is more common. Guy scheduled to bat is talking, next batter innocently goes to the plate and bats out of turn. No one on other team realizes it and only the talking guys says "Hey, you skipped my turn!" Wrong batter makes third out. Next inning at bat, guy who was skipped goes up to get his at bat. Gets on base safely, then who bats? Guy who made mistake in previous inning is sure he will be noticed if he bats again, but that's what the lineup says. Other team is clueless and neither challenges the leadoff batter, nor the fact that the guy who ended the previous inning with an out is now skipped and the next batter after him hits. |
| Oct. 26, 2016 B.J. 1106 posts | Garocket....you are correct about the runner who scored going back to 3rd...but all runners would return to their bases and any play nullified... there would be 1 out bases loaded....The next batter is the player whose name follows that of the player called out for failing to bat |
| Oct. 26, 2016 k man Men's 65 326 posts | BJ, if that's the case then the defensive team might be better off overlooking the situation because they went from getting 2 outs man on 1st with 1 run scored to 1 out and still bases loaded unless of course that 1 run was of significance. btw, I don't know what the correct call is so others need to chime in. |
| Oct. 26, 2016 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | B.J. Do you really think I am that smart LOL I copied and pasted the rule from rule book. Google batting out of turn after an out |
| Oct. 26, 2016 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | Retraction I also found another rule that says all runners return to the base before the pitch and you would only get the batting out of order out |
| Oct. 26, 2016 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | BUT This is what I found on an ASA site COMMONLY OCCURRING ASA SOFTBALL RULES AND POINTS OF EMPHASIS BATTING OUT OF ORDER If a batter bats out of order, this is an appeal play, which must be brought to the umpire's attention. If it is detected while the incorrect batter is at bat, the correct batter assumes the count and all plays made will stand. If it is detected after the incorrect batter has completed their turn at bat and before the next pitch (legal or illegal), the improper batter’s time at bat is negated, the batter who should have batted is out, any advance or score made because of the improper batter's advance is negated, runners not called out must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch, however runners put out on the play remain out. The next batter is the player whose name follows that of the player called out for failing to bat. If the error is discovered after the first pitch to the next batter, the turn at bat of the incorrect batter is legal, all runs scored and bases run are legal and the next batter shall be the one whose name follows that of the incorrect batter. No one is called out for failure to bat. No base runner shall be removed from a base to bat in his/her proper place. They merely miss their turn at bat with no penalty. So who do we believe ? LOL |
| Oct. 26, 2016 B.J. 1106 posts | Garocket....I see what you are saying...earlier after I posted my answer here I posted this scenario on a ASA web site to see what the responses their would be...but with the points of emphasis you posted looks correct...I went by SSUSA rule which says....(b) Any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter's advance to first base as a result of obstruction, an error, walk, or a base hit shall be nullified. and he actually didn't get a hit it was a fielders choice |
| Oct. 26, 2016 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | But still in limbo, because SSUSA does not say what to do about any outs recorded during the batting out of order only about advancement of runners. I think SSUSA says if not covered in their rule book revert back to ASA? Isn't that true ? |
| Oct. 26, 2016 B.J. 1106 posts | yes, and that's what I always do but even their rule doesn't explain....you had to go to POE to get an answer |
| Oct. 29, 2016 stick8 1991 posts | After checking with the on-line SSUSA rule book three things are for certain in the scenario I put up. The batter who was supposed to be at bat is out. The runner on third goes back to third. The batter-runner is safe at first. What is not specified is if the force at third and the force at second are outs or not. This is something SSUSA needs to add to the rule book. |
| Oct. 29, 2016 B.J. 1106 posts | stick.....first of all great scenario...I asked about 10 tournament umpires and no one gave the full correct answer...even though it is not totally spelled out in "any" rule book if you read this part of the rule it leads you to the correct call...(b) Any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter's advance to first base as a result of obstruction, an error, walk, or a base hit shall be nullified.... Since the batter did none of the above... he hit into a fielders choice double play... therefore the play IS NOT NULLIFIED.... the result is 2outs on fielders choice double play then then the 3rd out on managers appeal of batting out of order...no runs score because runners not called out on the play must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch... |
| Oct. 31, 2016 stick8 1991 posts | BJ that would be the conventional wisdom. However, it does need to be specified in the Ssusa rule book. I can visualize a scenario like this happening and a huge argument resulting, you know how some of them senior players love to do that 😀 It is specified in high school baseball--at least where I'm at. N |
