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Online now: 0 members ; 99 anonymousDiscussion: slow pitch slider
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| Nov. 23, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | slow pitch slider i've had a pretty good curveball bot the pst 20 years but never understood why it curves sine i don't crank it at all... i recently discoverd what it is that makes it curve for any pitchers interested in that's happening... here'e a video... watch it all but pay close atention the tpart on the baseball slider... this is what is at play in a slow pitch curve... or as you will soon see... a slow pitch slaider... https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_859181&feature=iv&src_vid=23f1jvGUWJs&v=t-3jnOIJg4k |
| Nov. 23, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | sorry for not checking my spelling first... "over the past" the rest you should be able to figure out... |
| Nov. 26, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | don't you guys have any comments? i've never seen so much inactivity... |
| Nov. 26, 2016 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | WILD, 30 years ago I threw a consistent softball curve with a palm ball. Very difficult to control as I had to kind of push the pitch rather than throw or spin it. But for some reason, the ball would curve most of the time. Then my team changed and I had a weak second baseman and a poor right fielder and I stopped throwing a curve that would break away from right handed batters. Two years passed, my team's fielding improved, and I never could throw the palm ball again! The video showed me how to curve a cricket ball and a foam ball, even a hard ball (perhaps) but it didn't give me much help on how to throw a slow pitch softball. Can you explain your technique? |
| Nov. 27, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | sure... i have some pics i took that may help... what i did was draw a bulllseye on the ball as you will see in the pics... then i have my catcher tell me if it loks right coming in... the pics will explain what should look right to the catcher... this approach makes it possible to get the most out of it too since the orientation of the ball is what matters... you should also realize this means you can do a backdoor slider as well... there are some pics to explain that as well... i will have a video soon of my delivery but i don't think that is as important as the grip and release is... http://imgur.com/a/oE4UF |
| Dec. 1, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | ok... i'm confused... if you can't throw a curve already this should be important to you since you can now learn... if you already can throw a curve this should be inportant because you now know why it curves... and perhaps now can improve on that... but still no comments... no questions... nothing... |
| Dec. 20, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | i held a clinic on sunday and had 6 pitchers show up to learn this slider... one of them picked it up almost immediately... 2 others about 5 minutes later... and the other 3 threw a few sliders but had trouble with getting any consistency... the 3 that got it fast have similar deliveries to mine so they were able to use my technique right out of the box... the other 3 had completely dissimilar deliveries from me so they will need to figure out what they need to do to make it work with their approach... or change to mine... in any case... i have some pictures of the bullseye as it evolved with the 5th one being the one i've finally decided is best... my suggestion, if you want to learn this, or perhaps improve on what yo have now... is to get a ball and draw a bullseye on it like the 5th picture here... and the catcher should see the 6th picture if it's thrown correctly... if the catcher says your bullseye is wobbling, then try a hand adjustment on the ball... if the orientation is off... then try turning your hand to line it up better... i suggest holding the bullseye up in front of you and lining the part between the dot and the seam with the catcher... that means the seam will be on the left side and the smooth spot on the right... with the catchers view being the opposite... this approach makes it much easier for the catcher to give feedback on what's happening... good luck if you are trying to learn this... http://imgur.com/a/il2uc |
| Dec. 28, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | is anyone trying this? or am i wasting my time posting here? it's difficult to tell with no comments... from here on... i will only be responding to comments or questions... since i don't like wasting my time... |
| Dec. 28, 2016 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | I don't think you are wasting your time but, I really don't want my opposing pitchers to learn this pitch. I've thrown this for the past 10 years, mostly in league but I have pitched in a handful of tournament games. It has really worked for me. The way I threw it was to throw it as a two seam pitch. In the past year or so I've lost the ability to consistently throw it. I've modified a ball like you pics show and it doesn't work for me. I've adjusted my fingers somewhat and think that I have hit on the best hand position for me. I'm thinking that if the catcher should be able to see the bulls eye then I should be able to see a bulls eye on the opposite side of the ball. Right? |
| Dec. 28, 2016 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | I watched it a couple of times and I didn't see how that demo related to slow pitch. I throw a slider type pitch which is my out pitch. |
| Dec. 29, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | thanks for your response bruce... actually... before this i had no reason to care about this and i assumed the same as you... but it turns out that the center spot on the opposite side is not exactly in line with the bullseye... if you hold your ball up so the dot is on one side and just eye it you will see that going through the dot and the center of the ball... it comes out offset about an inch... i was sorry to see that since it means you can't see it from behind clearly... it will appear wobbly... although you may be able to do it... using a catcher and the method i showed will be easier to deremine what's happeneing...i found that if 2 pitchers work together, the process speeds up since you both can give feedback and also learn what that feedback means... i'm about to make a video tha i will post showing my motion and hopefully the ball coming into the catcher with the bullseye properly aligned... and now you know why you are having consistency problems since the alignent is crucial... when you say 2 seam i assume you mean along the seams but still with the bullseye in between your thumb and index finger... as you have already done... find what works for you... i suggest it will make it more consistent if...when you practice... you hold the ball out in front of you with the seam slightly to the left of center... then lock your wrist and elbow and use only a long backswing and shoulder muscles to deliver the ball... everything you add to that motion adds to the inconsistency... since this is a finesse pitch rather than a brute force curve... consistency is everything... as far as your opponents learning this... i won't teach them if you don't... unless, of course, they ask me here... also i'm putting together a facebook page dedicated to this... anyone interested in seeing a more in depth discussion just needs to ask and i will post the page when it's done... |
| Dec. 29, 2016 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | You are correct, the bulls eye is between my thumb and index finger. Keep me updated and we will keep this a secret! ;) |
| Dec. 29, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | hey fred... nice to meet you... when you throw your "out pitch"... are you holding it with the "bullseye" or the smooth spot in between your thumb and index finger? if so.. .then you're throwing this slider... i actually saw this video a few years ago and didn't realize what it meant then... to softball... but doing some reaserch for this clinic i came across it again and it suddenly dawned on me that this could be what has been making my curveball curve... so i grabbed a ball and sure enough my grip lent itself to this outcome... i imagine your grip does the same thing... although you may not grip it in the same place i do... as long as you have that smooth spot aligned between you thumb and index finger... you're throwing these sliders... with the main variables being the direction of ths spin and the alignement of the ball coming into the catcher... again... in my clinic i found as i suspected that differnt deliveries will require different solutions... my delivery is a straighforward one... i start with both feet side by side... and step forward with my left foot... in fact... this is my bowling delivery which is how i discovered this pitch... if you have a delivery differnt from that... then you would seem have figured out how to do it that way... all i can say is adding wrist or elbow to the delivery diminshes consistency... remove those and get the ball aligned properly and let it roll off your hand... i should also add that this is not the only way to throw this slider... there is a backhand technic that also uses this effect to get both a backdoor and a frontdoor slider... so if you are using a backspin... then that discussion is totally different from this one... but still very interesting... we have a guy where i play that does this both ways but his delivery is very weird and i haven't been able to duplicate it yet... maybe i can get him on video as well... and thanks for your response... |
| Dec. 29, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | let me ask you this bruce... are you trying to crank it at all? since most americans only know baseball and the brute force curve so if you are trying to regain your slider with addeds rist you are going about it the wrong way... thry locking your wrist rather than using it... |
| Dec. 29, 2016 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | I hold it loose in my hand with the seams, index finger on the left seam and my 4th finger on the right seam. I release it by letting it slide out of my hand with a slight left twist of the wrist as I let it go. The idea is to come in about 5'-7' height and break left and down about 10' from the batter resulting in a ground ball. Down side of this pitch is if it don't break it is off the fence or over. Being a candlepin bowler for many years most of my pitches come natural as it is the same delivery except in bowling you slide and pitching you don't but the follow through is the same in both. One pitch I have problem with, and trying to work on it this winter, is a high pitch hitting the back edge of the mat. I am basically a low ball pitcher (6-10') working the front and side edges of the mat. Never been able to throw high pitches effectively. |
| Dec. 29, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | bruce... thinking this through... if you offset the bullseye on the back side so it's opposite the one on the front it shold work... the bullseye won't be in the center of the smooth spot but it will give a representation to the pitcher that's accurate... i'll have to give this a try myself... |
| Dec. 29, 2016 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | yes, that's what I did. |
| Dec. 29, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | hey fred... it sounds like you're holding the ball the same way bruce does which means you're throwing this slider... what are the rules in your league? 16 feet? or unlimited? or? keep in mind that as the pitch progresses the direction it travels changes... meaning the orientation of the spin up and down will determine when it breaks... if the angle is up then it will break early and if it's angled down it will break late... and the higher the arc the more downward it has to be to get the late break... although getting the early break should be relatively easy... it might not be as effective... but who knows until you try... in my clinic i had 3 guys who pitch unlimited arc and we tried to figure out how to work this out with that in mind... they told me my normal delivery was breaking but i can't say personally either when it broke or how much... so try just using your regular delivery and adjust from there to see what you get... and you really need a catcher for this since you can't possibly tell yourself... as far as hitting the back of the plate... i have a theory about turning this into a dropball that i will propose soon... think about it and you will see that a simple adjustment will make this curve down... but it's not proven yet by any means... have you made a bullseye ball yet? that's the first thing you should do... read what bruce and i were saying about making a target on the backside so you can see it... |
| Dec. 29, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | one last thing both of you might try is the pinky tuck... i get the best results with that although i'm not sure why it works yet... i assume it orients the ball down more so i get the late break... but again... i'm not sure yet... time will hopefully tell... |
| Dec. 30, 2016 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | We are 6-12'. I pitch mainly on the low end. It would be a challenge with unlimited arc. I haven't tried the bullseye yet but will as I concentrate more on pitching for effect towards the end of Jan. My next pitching session I will try the pinky tuck and let you know. |
| Dec. 30, 2016 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Our league is also 6-12 but after my 8' pitches are constantly called flat I start throwing them waaaay up there, 16-18'! lol |
| Dec. 31, 2016 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | ok... thanks to both of you... any feedback on what works and doesn't work will be helpful... |
| Jan. 3, 2017 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | Wild: Tried the pinky tuck today. It took a while to get used to but it did, as you said, give me a tighter break especially on my curve ball. It also seemed to give me better control on keeping the ball inside. It seems that by holding the pinky finger in it cuts down on the turnover of my wrist as I release the ball keeping the ball more on a straight line. Will be able to tell better when it warms up a little giving me a better grip on the ball. We get the use of the facilities but we don't get any heat. |
| Jan. 3, 2017 tg69 393 posts | Seems to me that the guys who throw the junk pitches, sliders, curves and knuckleballs get hit at more often than ones who don't. Middle openers! |
| Jan. 3, 2017 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Tom, hence the saying "chuck and duck" :) |
| Jan. 3, 2017 tg69 393 posts | hey Bruce. Hows things with you? Theres a reason I don't pitch.Cant duck fast enough. |
| Jan. 4, 2017 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | to be honest tom... i meant to mention that... you do need to be on your toes no matter what you throw but slider does seem more likely to come back at you... ive always trued to hone my reflexes off the field so they are better on it... but i've still been hit a fair share of times... seems they don't take pitchers into account when they juice the balls and bats... personally, the place i play now has a box rule plus i can stand anywhere inside the box to pitch so i've gone ahead and added that extra 8 feet onto my pitching so my reflexes have a little longer to react... however, the reason this happens is that hitters can't control where they hit it as well... which means it's an advantage to the pitcher... as long as you can defend yourself... i've had a couple of friends request that i stop throwing them sliders... not because they can't still hit the hell out of it... but they can't control where they hit it as well... i also find that pitching this inside keeps that from happening as much... but pitching is a dangerous profession... there's no way around that... |
| Jan. 4, 2017 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | that's good to hear fred... there seems to be a few possible things we can try to improve the orientation... now i'm thinking that even the thumb position might affect it... since the orientation is critical... anything we do with the grip might improve it or make it worse... so i suggest try anything you can think of and see what happens... but like i said... that pinky tuck seems to work pretty well for me and if it works for you then we are making progress... have you made a bullseye ball yet? make one with the bullseye on the back side like bruce and i were discussing earlier so you can see the target... that way you have some idea of what's happening and might better be able to logically figure out a fix... good luck and thanks for your input... as i said... i'm only about 3 months ahead of you on this whole thing... in no way do i have it all figured out so everything is helpful... even what doesn't seem to work... bruce... have you had a chance to try this yet? is there anyone else who's trying this? |
| March 20, 2017 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | is anyone working on this? and success? any questions... well... here's a short video that shows my delivery... and my release... and the last two clips show the curve... at least i think they do... i'll let you decide... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYMNYZS7EoM&feature=youtu.be |
| March 24, 2017 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | Haven't forgotten you. Just that I ran into a pitching hand problem and having a hard time flexing my fingers making my grip unstable to grip the ball and spin it. I was just getting use to the tucking of the little finger under the ball to get a tighter break at the end. Going for EMG Tue to see if doctor can find problem and if they can fix it with little down time. |
| March 24, 2017 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Me either. I threw this pitch years ago but seemed to lose it recently. I now realize that I must fine tune it. Thanks, |
| April 10, 2017 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | alright... here's another short video that shows the different grips and the release you want... just in case the pictures weren't enough... how's the hand coming along fred? and remeber... you don't want to spin it... just let it roll off your finger tips... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hJbiRil7o&feature=youtu.be[/url] |
| April 10, 2017 WiLD Men's 60 19 posts | yeah bruce... this turns out to be very much a technical pitch... everything has to be right in order for it to work... using the bullseye ball is a great way to fine tune it... make sure you make one to warm up with... if you can sneak it into the game... even better... lol... |
