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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 38 anonymousDiscussion: Why so many shaved senior bats
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| Nov. 26, 2016 marcster13 102 posts | Why so many shaved senior bats Whenever I am on ebay looking for a deal on bats I run into a bunch of shaved senior bats. Why the heck would someone shave a senior bat? I play 40's and I was shocked we get to use a regular senior bat. Not complaining about that though because it is funny seeing a normal can of corn go 320ft. Plus guys know the bat it hot so they are prepared on defense for it. But to swing a shaved bat in seniors? Show some respect to the guys you compete with. They shake hands with these guys. They drink a beer with these guys. They meet their wives or family. Yet they knowingly swing a dirty bat against them trying to hurt and alter someone's life or even kill them. It makes me sick. |
| Nov. 27, 2016 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | marcster13, More players than you would think are using shaved bats. I could tell you stories of all that I know about which players are using shaved bats. I also know what players will get them shaved for you. When I run into one of those players in a game that I know, I just smile and walk him. The one that I always remember well, is the guy that I saw walking into the complex carrying 6 bats. I asked him why are you carrying so many bats. His reply was that each of his bats only last 45-50 swings, because they are shaved thin, so that most of his hits are home runs. I could not believe that he admitted to this. If this is new to you, then be aware that in leagues, several players are using not only shaved bats, but tournament bats painted to look like league bats. You can buy them already painted and/or shaved bats, and the manufacturer has a disclaimer on it, that says to be used in exhibition only. Your last comment about hurting someone or taking their life, this could happen even with a legitimate tournament bat. The real danger is when a 55 player in a league game is using an illegal bat, with 70/75 players on the field. This is why you are starting to see more infielders, other than the pitcher, wearing masks and/or shin guards. Maybe not in the 40 divisions, but 50's and above. JMHO, Andy Smith, 65 Major |
| Nov. 27, 2016 DCPete 409 posts | One theory is more guys started using shaved bats once the Trump Stote ball was put in play. The Stote doesn't go as far, especially in the heat, so maybe the shaved bats can compensate for the loss of distance? Same thing happened in open age league play when the 52/300 ball was put in play and players (allegedly) started using shaved USSSA or ASA bats. |
| Nov. 27, 2016 marcster13 102 posts | I've seen shaved bats for years in league and turnies. Just shocked to see it at the senior level since the bats are ridiculously hot already. It's really a shame. As for a shaved bat on a mushy ball or on the 52/300 ball you'd want to use a bat with the stiffest barrel. So those guys are hurting their performance. |
| Nov. 28, 2016 HAT MAN Men's 50 229 posts | Marc While I get where your concern is, I think your wording is a bit over the top. Your word manipulation is a but stretched. They knowingly try to hurt and alter someone's life after meeting their family. Come on, I highly doubt anyone is trying to hurt or kill anyone. While the shaved thing is what it is, at least in the 40s it hasn't resulted in any major injuries that I have seen. |
| Nov. 28, 2016 J R 251 posts | I play 70 + aa Most of the time aa,aaa, Major combined. , runs given. I wear Lacrosse shinguards,and mask,if the fields are bad a flack jacket. To play 1st base. I wear the mask in league ball. |
| Nov. 28, 2016 mck71 Men's 60 344 posts | HAT MAN, 2 years ago it ended our pitchers season (we play 50's), ball shattered his shin, major surgery was needed, was out of work for over a month and he hasn't played since. Not saying bat was shaved but if it was, would this change your opinion? And yes, I pitch and know the risks so that's on me (and yes, I have been hit on purpose, sadly part of the game). So maybe the "wordsmithing" was a little much but message was clear to me, not necessary and pretty sad! |
| Nov. 28, 2016 HAT MAN Men's 50 229 posts | MCK Not saying im ok with shaved bats in seniors. Just saying you can be against it w/o having to make it out that those who do are knowingly trying to kill someone is absurd. Just like when people say its aggravated assault with a deadly weapon when a pitcher is hit. You cant charge someone with an assault that way. Pitched for 20 years wont do it anymore, just cant react so i get it. All I was trying to say was there wasn't the need for the story line. Just my opinion. |
| Nov. 28, 2016 J R 251 posts | I have more trouble with batters standing so far off the plate. Strike over the plate comes back up the middle.No way to pitch inside. |
| Nov. 28, 2016 k man Men's 65 326 posts | I know the topic is about shaved bats which in my opinion has no place in our games especially with how hot the senior bats are. But if pitchers safety is of concern, do you think the addition of the extra infielder in the lower age leagues might deter the percentage of batters shooting the middle. I find that in our 60+ league and 65+ ISSA tournaments, the likelihood of shooting the middle is less likely than when for instance we played 65+ in SSUSA where there is no middle fielder. Others might feel this is tinkering with the game too much. btw, I for one would not want to pitch that close or even be in the infield as those balls are rocketed off these bats. I am more than happy grazing in the outfield! |
| Nov. 28, 2016 HAT MAN Men's 50 229 posts | good one JR For those that dont know I am the king of off the plate. Often measure the box width to assure its regulation. With that said I rarely go middle at the pitcher. The only time is with 2 strikes and its a flat/fast pitch away. Sometimes they go back because the flat fast ones are hard to push opo. Being hit for 20 years I know the pain of being hit. I recall at worlds telling a pitch sorry but if its flat and fast it may come back. Later in tourney he threw it again it went between his legs, team got mad saying come on thats twice and the pitcher said.... no guys he told me arched and away i was fine but I thought i could get him out... its my fault. |
| Nov. 28, 2016 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Venturing a guess here I'd say more were rolled than shaved. Read the ads on web sites or CL. Nothing is done anywhere I know of cause its ok to sell them but illegal to use them... hypocrisy. |
| Nov. 28, 2016 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | Why so many shaved senior bats? answer, Vienna sausages and two raisins! |
| Nov. 28, 2016 Cuervo13 33 posts | I played only one full season of 40's roughly 5-6 years ago. We built a team of players that had played anywhere from C's to A's in the 90's and into the mid to late 2000's. All of us were 45 to 50 years old at the time. What i saw was the majority of teams that we played against were guys more or less in our age bracket that never sniffed a C team or higher during their 20's and 30's and were in phenomenal softball shape still. The senior rules of 5 an inning and the plutonium wonder sticks not only evened the playing field but the teams who had players who could still run had the advantage. I played a 50's a year ago and a 40 event this year and now i see more separation between divisions a bit. The hitting is out of this world with homeruns and mishit's. Guys who were .600 at best with no power are now .700 plus and can hit bombs at will. The 40's/50's programs and the bats have allowed many players to extend their careers and allowed many players to compete with everyone in my opinion. |
| Nov. 29, 2016 stick8 1991 posts | AFAIC, anyone who gets caught using a shaved senior bat during play that person ought to be banned from senior ball FOR LIFE. |
| Nov. 29, 2016 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Some were baanned but not for long. One is a director. Lifetime should have been, it but might still be 5 or 10 years depending on if freely giving up bat to be checked or not. Last time I was in St G they got two guys with them. 2007. Not really checked into that anywhere, I'm aware of. |
| Nov. 29, 2016 TAT22 74 posts | When someone hits their home run they go over and stick their bat in their bat bag and don't leave it out with the rest of the other bats. They might be swinging a shaved bat. |
| Nov. 30, 2016 DOLFAN 90 posts | I will repost what I wrote earlier in the year.... BS..I know for sure, Dudes are shaving bats......I just wrote a 1000 word rant, but after reading it I decided not to post it because it doesn't matter..Bitches are gonna "CHEAT". I say challenge every bat every game, every tourney.......damn, I'm pissed because punks are "CHEATING", efffffing p**y's cant hit bombs without help...you cats who read this post and know you shave your bats should feel "sick"...Man Up or be punks......Yeah, You know who you are!!! I'm sorry, but I pride myself on my ability and I don't need no shaved bat to help me..... On another note... Happy Holidays ;-) |
| Nov. 30, 2016 Allan55 102 posts | Over the last three years, I have heard more and more people are using shaved bats. If I have heard it, then so have others. Yet nothing has come out of the SSUSA office regarding this. It appears it is the MLB scenario. You remember...Sosa and his corked bats, Mac and his Andro, and Bonds and his Clear...just to name a few. MLB knew what was happening and did nothing for the longest time, because baseball fans were following the game in record numbers. Now look at SSUSA. Senior softball is gaining more popularity every year. SSUSA knows what is going on...yet they appear to be looking the other way because of the success of the association. They seem to be afraid of stepping in and doing the right thing by banning the shaved bats. I like SSUSA, but they fell asleep at the switch on shaved bats. |
| Dec. 1, 2016 Benji4 Men's 55 289 posts | Alan 55 How are you going to come out and blame SSUSA for shaved bats? Explain to me how they are to enforce shaved bats and do it legally and keep everyone happy? Compression testing is not 100% accurate, and just because your bat tests low doesn't mean it shaved. You want them to start cutting bats open based on suspicion? Or do they get a crystal ball and guess who has a shaved bat? Who is going to pay to replace cut open bats that aren't shaved? Maybe if managers and teammates would police themselves and call out their own players then just maybe the problem could be reduced. Cheating in sports is never going to be zero percent because people have always tried to gain an advantage. Calling out SSUSA isn't the answer. The same problem exists in all levels of softball and no one has come up with a solution except using provided bats at all tournaments. That's a costly thing that is not excepted by everyone playing softball. And bat manufacturers aren't going to change the way bats are manufactured just because a few people complain about shaved bats. Shaved bats break easier therefore, more bat sales. So instead of bashing SSUSA come up with a PERFECT solution and I'm sure they would be willing to listen. |
| Dec. 1, 2016 swing for the fences Men's 50 1224 posts | It is not up to SSUSA, it's up to the players in the dugouts... I believe if you get caught the Manager of the team is suspended for 1 year... If I knew someone in my own dugout was swinging dirty, I would have to break his bat.. I know of players that swing/swung dirty and it is up to their own team to put a stop to it! That is the only way you would truly help put a stop to it...The one thing I remember when I was in the forties, is that we didn't have senior bats then and the shaved bats were out of control at that time... now with the senior bats, I felt that it did balance the game a bit against the shaved bats, as I thought everyone now has a hot bat... some now are a little hotter than others but if you truly hit the ball anywhere in the vicinity of the sweet spot, it will go with a regular senior bat.. |
| Dec. 2, 2016 Allan55 102 posts | Benji4 Do you think shaved bats will be a bigger problem in the future, or will shaved bats go away? I think you know the answer. What is that saying about when good people do nothing...what happens? SSUSA is in charge of things, and they have had to make decisions regarding violations in the past. This is a violation of the rules and should be dealt with. As far as a perfect solution...is anything perfect? I do know there are a few thousand members who could put their thoughts together to come up with a solution. I also know the process of eliminating shaved bats has to start now...rather than later...you do too. |
| Dec. 2, 2016 DCPete 409 posts | Not knowing much about Compression Testing would this be able to single out a shaved senior bat from an unshaved senior bat? If not, then using a better ball than the Stote would at least reduce the number of (alleged) shavers . . . |
| Dec. 2, 2016 B94 Men's 50 138 posts | My understanding is a shaved bat could pass compression and a well worked in bat could fail so you would be punishing guys that put work in and hit a lot as opposed to punishing the cheaters... |
| Dec. 2, 2016 djs_1964 8 posts | Compression testing is not foolproof. In my opinion it's actually better at catching bats that are too well broken-in vs. those that are shaved. That's still a good thing, though. There is no doubt in my mind that the manufacturers could make a tamper-proof (or FAR more tamper-resistant) bat. Any joker with a lathe can do it now. But they'd cost themselves a a boatload of money. As mentioned earlier, shaved bats are much more fragile. So they break faster and lead to more sales. Maybe the sanctions could get together to not certify bats unless they're tamper-proof. But if they don't all do it collectively, the one that does will probably lose players. "If I can only use this bat in XXXXX, then that's the only sanction I'll play in." But no way is the onus on them. Egos are the root cause of this issue. These guys feel better about themselves if they can hit a fall further. The part I really don't understand is that most of the guys that swing 'em are already outstanding hitters and have a lot of power. Had one guy who is a well-known bat doctor in my area attempt to justify it to me by saying that he doesn't need to swing a shaved bat; that he's in the city's hall of fame. WHAT!!!???? Dave V mentioned it. Not sure if it was one of his videos or if he posted on here. It's going to get much worse. The younger guys heading our direction never knew the defensive, small ball type of game "back in the day". They're bringing their selfish, "watch me hit it 400 feet" attitude with them. |
| Dec. 2, 2016 Benji4 Men's 55 289 posts | Alan I wholeheartedly agree, But if you follow other softball organizations nobody has come up with a solution. Compression testing isn't the answer. Provided bat tournaments are great if you have bat company connections willing to provide bats. However, then people won't purchase bats. My point was slamming SSUSA isn't the answer either. It's going to take someone getting caught and permanently suspended for others to take note. How someone is going to get caught is the $100,000 dollar question. |
| Dec. 2, 2016 the car 83 posts | put a price tag in it where if shaved it would take it off get a price tag gun and hit the bat and it should tell you about the bat or the price or what company or something along those lines |
| Dec. 2, 2016 J R 251 posts | I have been umpiring senior ball for awhile. The 50 year old players coming in now are incredible athletes .They never stopped playing.Blazing speed, and power to burn. |
| Dec. 3, 2016 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Whatever the penalty for a batter using an illegal bat, I am in agreement. As a manager, the only rule that I disagree with is penalizing the manager. Probably some managers may know that a player or players are using an illegal bat, but what about the manager that does not know, because he had no knowledge of this? I guess the solution may be to list someone else that is not really on your roster as a manager.....like Dave Dowell? LOL! Andy Smith, 65 Major |
| Dec. 3, 2016 TAT22 74 posts | I would like to see the bat manufactures use some kind of material implanted into the inside of the barrel so that if you shave the bat the material would be gone and then the tournament director just scans the bat with the some sort of detector and he would know the bat was shaved because the material would be gone. It's the 21st century we should be able to come up with something of the sort. |
| Dec. 4, 2016 tattooball 774 posts | TAT22 I came up with what you are saying in 2006. I brought it to all of the associations, they said they couldn't make the bat companies put it in the bats. The cost was less than a dollar. When the associations brought it to the attention of the manufactures they said they would never put it in a bat. I still have the scanner and bats with this in them that have over 3000 swings on them and still reading fine. |
| Dec. 5, 2016 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | Interesting conversation-again. I have a Dudley that Davey Reed and Bobby Davis gave me 2 years ago at World's that has, through use, hit 1100 compression. I also has to have 2000 swings on it. Would it be called shaved now if tested? Wow! It stayed at about 1400 compression for at least 750 swings. I haven't had a bat last like this since the advent of the 'Senior Bats'. In Winter Worlds this year I had a pain in my back that pretty much kept me from turning on the ball like I usually do. I ended up driving the middle much more than usual and had a couple balls that came way too close to the pitcher. Had I been using a shaved bat, I might have gotten one or both of them. How could anyone take the chance of having to live with themselves if they did hit a pitcher with a doctored bat and injured them badly.....or worse? |
| Dec. 5, 2016 HAT MAN Men's 50 229 posts | too many variables with too many separate interests to see shaved bats go away. Bat testing (compression) doesnt prove anything. As many have said the bat could be just well broken in. You have to assure the tester is trained. How hard can it be? In may of tested/bucket events in USSSA I have bats tested higher weeks after another test scored it lower(hotter). Had a bat test at 220 following day hit a pitcher and tested at 250. compression testing is not true. note asa and utrip have different compression numbers for those that dont know. They basically mean the same but one is in the thousands and one in the hundreds. Bat companies are in it for profit. In sr ball its a little different because of no warranty. in ASA/USSSA when a player shaves a bat and it breaks thats profit on 1 bat sale(its not being sent back). If you dont shave it and you break it the mfgr replaces it thus 2 bats at the same price. Easton attempted a clear design that if the barrel was shaved the outside color would change and the umps would know. Major fail umps calling guys out only to find out the bat after being well broken in was changing color and when sent in proven to be legal. Did I mention the sales were dismal from the start to begin with. Lets cut open a bat we think is shaved....hmmmmm I use a 2014 demarini the pne end load. I now have 1 left and are becoming harder and harder to find. I dont care if you give me 500 for a bat I wont have one broken in like that and all because of (I think its shaved) Bottom line is mfgrs wont spend more money to get less profit. Players will always look for an edge. All we can do as many have said is align yourselves with like players and have the comfort of knowing your doing it right. |
| Dec. 5, 2016 NYGNYY 215 posts | Just wondering after reading all of this --what is the percentage of time that the SSUSA has actually found a shaved bat over the course of a season? Take this year as an example was there anyone kicked out of a tournament over a shaved bat? I agree this needs to be policed by the team and manager. These bats have no place on the field especially with already using 1.21 bats and lively balls. |
| Dec. 5, 2016 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | comp testing will let you know when a bat has been beyond legal limits......220 for usssa....1500 for asa.....anything testing a lower comp is tossed.....senior bats have tested below the 1500 after minimal break in..closer to 1250....senior ball needs to do the same thing.... |
| Dec. 5, 2016 HAT MAN Men's 50 229 posts | Mad Dog what number are you thinking though say usssa numbers? I like the idea but the bat development would have to change. It would cause too many ripple effects. EX a few years back I played E worlds with the kids and the next week sr worlds. When I went to utrip they tested all bats, for fun I wanted to test my 50 cut max big cat miken.......150 it tested. Guy says holy sh!@ they let you use that? I say yea and that bat is new on has 50 cuts on it. So lets say they make it 160 cant use a new bat, make it 120 sr bats wont last a full season. Do they (mfgr) make them 1.20 if so a lot must change. Then factor in those that do not use the tester correctly. Sad to say but I dont see money being spent to play the safety card. I think we need to focus on the 1976 hats given out as second place at winter worlds. 210 teams, new record and a 1.79 cap with buckle strap for 2nd. At least make them a snapback or flex fit lol |
