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Discussion: New age eligibilty rules for 75s and 80s - Reactions?

Posted Discussion
Jan. 2, 2017
Sisavic
165 posts
New age eligibilty rules for 75s and 80s - Reactions?
73s and 74s can now play 75s, and 78s and 79s can now play 80s. What is your reaction? Has it effected your team's or your own situation?
Jan. 2, 2017
cuda65
56 posts
Hi Mike.. Chuck here...Yes this has had a very positive effect for me in that I can now play on an 80 team as well as my old 75 team. I`ll be playing with a team out of Michigan and I feel I can help that 80 team. If SSUSA had not changed their ruling on this, I would not be able to go to Vegas or TOC in Florida. At our age, this give us more opportunities to play the game we love. tomorrow is not guaranteed. I enjoyed playing with you guys and hope you continue to play at a very high level.
Jan. 3, 2017
Omar Khayyam
1289 posts
I have many friends who are on 75 and 80 teams. For the many on this site who are youngsters (I'm talking to you, 50s and 60s), they likely have no idea of the toll that age takes on these teams. Most of these older teams carry the maximum roster of 22 people and it is not uncommon that they find themselves with a tournament looming and they do not have 12 healthy players to compete!

Also, it is a rare tournament that one or more players is able to go with faculties intact as the tournament progresses. Muscle pulls, dizziness, injury bleeding, and stamina often cause a player to be unable to go full strength, or even to continue to play. Thus, again, the need for a large roster.

With the ability to have more younger players on the roster, as well as picking up subs at times, these teams will have a more successful season. I personally do not see the need to add so many younger players to a 75 team, but I do think it is necessary for an 80s team. I would have argued for 2 73-year-olds and 3 74-year-olds. Having a roster of too many younger players makes the competition less even and may reduce the number of teams, as well as robbing 70s teams of some of their older players who may be still able to compete on a 70s team, but are even more valuable on an older team. I know my older team is losing three valuable players to the next age bracket.

Jan. 3, 2017
Fred S
Men's 85
297 posts
The down side is a lot of older players will not have a team to play on, which if I remember right was the reason for changing a few years ago.
Jan. 3, 2017
Omar Khayyam
1289 posts
Fred S, you are absolutely right. As younger guys can join a team (you can be multi-rostered in northern California), then some of the older, slower, declining guys no longer have a team to play on. Understandably, the younger, faster, stronger guys will take the starting positions. This leaves older guys, some of whom have been on the same team for decades as it aged, shut out as they realize they will not get much playing time. There are a couple of teams I know of that refuse to upgrade with younger guys and continue to play with the friends they have enjoyed for years. They don't win many tournament games, but I admire their commitment to each other.
Jan. 3, 2017
taits
Men's 65
4548 posts
Fred and Omar, your both correct but do see the other side as Sisavic mentions. That said I also believe the teams will drop some in order to get the younger guys given it better players for sure. Not a good overall situation, and a catch 22 for managers.
IMO it might be getting hard tto recruit or keep the older teams together for many reasons, sad state of affairs given that rules actually punish the older teams in certain ways.
Next will be add two 63 yr olds player on 65's teams
Two 58 yr olds players for 60's teams
One player for each for 50 and 55's who are 49. But in reality they could play at 48. Same applies to the above for 1 yr earlier I'd think...
But what the hell they bring in the teams, money and all that goes with it. High fees, why, not much has cost more unless your paying minimum wage, Low turnout brackets, questionable awards at many, great events management wise, only a few Umps questioned, list could continue but why are not all umps on the same page other than the "judgement calls"?
ok I'm rambeling....
Happy New Year all.
Can't wait for the reply on this one....
Jan. 3, 2017
cuda65
56 posts
Taits,,,You were rambling. All the stuff you mentioned about 60 teams and 65 teams really doesn`t make a lot of sense in that there are many many teams in those above mentioned categories. In the 80 division East of the Mississippi there are only 4 80 teams that are within 7 or 8 hour drives from where I live. The older teams that you mention as being weaker have the option to get younger players and the older players can in this case move up to the 85 age group. I see it as a win win situation. Also, by adding the younger players, you improve the overall play for that division.
Jan. 3, 2017
SSUSA Staff
2719 posts
Don't over-think this one! ... We added back the underage exemptions solely in response to a LOT of noise we got last year that 75+ and 80+ teams had to have two separate rosters: one for SSUSA and one for SPA, who allowed the underage players ... No magic, no sinister hidden agenda here, just a desire to grant the request to have equivalent rosters for the two major associations ... And, YES, we are concerned about the upper-end guys (78/79's and 83/84's) getting cut so the teams can sign the underage "youngsters" ... No perfect solution, so this is just the current version of "Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!" ... Good luck everyone!

Jan. 4, 2017
cuda65
56 posts
SSUSA Staff... You got that completely right. Not to rehash my major concern but to have the two major organizations not in sync was a real headache for the players and teams alike. Now I can play SPA east and go to Vegas and T.O.C. Great move. Thank you
Jan. 4, 2017
Player
77 posts
Just a couple of points. In the Florida Half Century (FHC), the age has been dropped to 74 for all players in the division. A little different, but not much. Works well, in fact. And yes, we use the safety pitching screens.

Now, for we 75+ players, if we can just convince the SSUSA and SPA to drop the "Snowbird" requirements when we play down to a lower age, that would be great! JMHO
Jan. 4, 2017
Fred S
Men's 85
297 posts
Cuda65: There is one flaw in your thinking. There are not many 85 teams in the whole country and they are mostly based in Florida and California. Once you are dropped from an 80 team there is a very slim chance you can get on a 85 team unless you from those areas.
Jan. 4, 2017
cuda65
56 posts
Fred S. I understand your concerns and have sympathy for your situation, but there is hope on the horizon if you can just hang on a little longer. I`m not being sarcastic, there will be more 75`s moving up and those older 80`s should have more options in the future. I still want to play the game as long as I feel I can be competitive. Best of luck Fred.
Jan. 4, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2549 posts
The two extremes have been well stated ... [1] SSUSA/SPA Roster consistency vs. [2] Disenfranchising the elder players of the two age groups ... The SMART thing to do would be for both associations to phase out the underage exemptions over the next two years ... The 73's and 78's could "play up" in 2017, then eliminate those exceptions for 2018 ... Those same players could then "play up" one more year (in 2018), and then eliminate the exceptions altogether for 2019 ...

SSUSA believes, with data to support it, that there are enough teams and players to populate them in pure age groups up through the 80+ Division ... The 85+ Division would retain their exemptions until that player population increases ...

Jan. 5, 2017
phantomf4j
40 posts
I will turn 74 next month, which makes me eligible (now one of 7 players??) who can play 75 ball. I learned just this week that now 7 younger players can play 75 ball. That means, of course, that when a 75 team goes to a tournament there will almost certainly be competing against a team that is fielding seven age 73/74 players. It therefore forces all 75 team managers to find younger players for their team. I worry that the guys who are 76 and beyond will not get to play regularly. And I will be there in just 2-years, so it is important to me.
Jan. 5, 2017
Sisavic
165 posts
Dave Dowell. Please clarify your last post. It appears that SSUSA will/may change back to 80s as a "pure age group" for 2018.

What would you advise a manger who wants to put together an 80s team for 2018 with 78s and 79s for Phoenix in November 2017 when the 2018 roster rules might/will be changed back to a pure age group at the convention in December 2017?


Jan. 5, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2549 posts
Mike ... My most recent post in this thread was only a personal preference ... The factual data is correct as stated, but that's not what this is about right now ... I'm only one vote on the National Rules Committee and have no opinion if such a motion would even get a second for consideration ... From there, it would still have to get to "7" to pass ... Just me speculating for the sake of discussion ...
Jan. 5, 2017
cyborg45
Men's 70
178 posts
As a means of clarification, it looks as if teams in these age groups are limited to 7 younger players, ie. 7, 73 and 74 players for a 75 team. Can it be a mix of these ages? For instance, 6 73's and 1 74? What about player ratings? Could a Major plus 70 player, join a 75 AAA team?
Jan. 5, 2017
k man
Men's 65
255 posts
cyborg- not more than 3 73's
Jan. 5, 2017
k man
Men's 65
255 posts
And I would think not on the other.
If I read the chart correctly, a 70 Major+ is rated a 5 while a 75 AAA is rated a 2 so the answer would be no. SSUSA should verify that and correct if necessary.
Jan. 6, 2017
Sisavic
165 posts
Dave .... For the sake of discussion it seems to me that the following scenario has a non-zero probability.

Assume that a manager recruits a brandy new 2018 80s team populated with three players turning 78 and four turning 79 in 2018. He enters the team in the Phoenix tournament in November 2017. And further assume that the National Rules Committee votes in favor of returning to the pure age group for the 80s for 2018 (at the SSUSA Convention in December 2017). It sounds like the said manager will need to cut the seven then-underaged players and start recruiting again.

I know this scenario sounds theoretical and depends on assumptions, but it appears to be truly possible. I know of a prominent manager who is currently recruiting for a new 80s team for 2018. I would not want to be that manager who would have to tell the younger recruits to join the team for the November tournament with the possibility of being cut in December.

Clarity, personal or organizational, would be appreciated.



Jan. 6, 2017
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2549 posts
Mike ... For the sake of theoretical discussion, again as simply one of 13 Committee members There have been recent discussions that will most likely result in a "Special Session" of the National Rules Committee, by telephone conference call, to consider this issue, both as to substance and timing of any potential fine-tuning ... This would be well in advance of the end of the 2017 Season, when roster composition for the 2018 Season (ethically) commences ... It could be somewhat unfortunate to have done a lot of "free agent recruitment" in vain should the current guidelines change ... The probability of SSUSA addressing this, "yay or nay," in the short to mid-term future is very high ...
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