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Online now: 3 members: JohnO28, Outlaw23, TABLE SETTER 11; 136 anonymousDiscussion: Out of the Batters Box.
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| April 23, 2017 Gonedeep43 71 posts | Out of the Batters Box. This rule needs to be reviewed. Saturday night at BLD Las Vegas, the umpire, who was desperate to be part of the action, called out of the batters box twice, the second time it affected the outcome of the game. My objection is, only at BLD Las Vegas have I ever seen this enforced due to the permanent lines due to the artificial grass. And, only one umpire was actually enforcing this rule. I understand if someone is going middle on the pitcher, this could be a safety precaution. But at any other dirt infield, this has never been enforced, how could it? The batters box has been kicked out by the 3rd inning. And, talking to other umpires that were observing the game, they remarked that they wouldn't have made that call. Umpires need to be consistent. |
| April 23, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | All that needs to be done is more strict enforcement of SSUSA Rulebook §7.3(1) on page 41 regarding Intentionally Obliterating the Batters Box ... That's not possible at BLD and Golden Eagle in Sparks with the permanent boxes, so the "out of the box calls" are proper, correct and easily determined ... On a related topic, I measured four randomly selected batters boxes at BLD early Friday morning ... Four of the six were the perfect dimensions ... The other two were 1/8th inch and 1/4 inch too long, respectively ... That's a tolerance for error we are comfortable with ... Best advice: Stay in the batters box at permanent artificial turf facilities ... |
| April 23, 2017 Spock Men's 60 14 posts | This is the Senior softabll rulebook copied and pasted. PLAYING RULES Page 41 for those of you who want to look it up. 7.3 • BATTING POSITION A. The batter must have at least some portion of both feet on or inside the lines of the batter's box at the start of the pitch. A batter who steps out of the batter’s box at any time during the pitch and then hits the ball, fair or foul, shall be called out. Steps out means touching the ground completely outside of the lines of the batter’s box. (See §1.5) |
| April 23, 2017 Spock Men's 60 14 posts | Now does stepping out mean, during the act of swinging, or before contact or after contact, (After contact would not work, as we all step out after contact)... Many interpretations here. Many players stand in front of the plate with at least one or both feet, and I guarantee by the time they make contact with the ball, that front foot is way out of the box. HHHmmm. |
| April 24, 2017 B.J. 1105 posts | spock... the rule explains it all A. The batter must have at least some portion of both feet on or inside the lines of the batter's box at the start of the pitch. A batter who steps out of the batter’s box at any time during the pitch and then hits the ball, fair or foul, shall be called out. Steps out means touching the ground completely outside of the lines of the batter’s box. (See §1.5) Dave is right there needs to be more enforcement of the rule....if the players need more room then petition SSUSA for a rule change and ask for different size batters boxes |
| April 24, 2017 B94 Men's 50 138 posts | If you're going to enforce this rule to the letter then you need to go back to a cut out mat where a ball that lands on the plate is a ball not a strike as it is with the current mat as that 6' pitch on the front edge of the mat is virtually un-hittable without the batter positioning themselves at the front of the plate. In this situation any type of a stride will take you out of the box. By using the cut out the batter can now move back another 12-18" where they won't stride out of the box. |
| April 24, 2017 Gonedeep43 71 posts | Exactly, no way can you avoid stepping out of the box if you decide to go after that short pitch that hits the front of the plate. And, like myself, and any player over 6'2" is forced to shorten their stride to adhere to this rule. For any of us who play or played USSSA, there isn't a box due to quick pitches. When the Utrip plays the Sin City Classic at BLD, every player would be called out if they applied SSUSA rules in regards to being out of the box. I agree that if a guy runs up on a ball and goes middle on a pitcher and while doing so steps out of the box, I say that constitutes as being an out for safety reasons. This rule truly needs to be reviewed. And really, I've only seen it enforced at BLD Vegas, no where else. |
| April 24, 2017 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | I have seen it enforced at Golden Eagle in Reno. I agree it is a bit unfair to big guys (although as a pitcher I love it), but there is no reason, with the rule being as it is, that someone develops the habit of consistently stepping out because they like to be forward in the box. It's a rule. Live by it until it is changed somehow. |
| April 24, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Omar ... That's the "flip side of the same coin" argument in favor of properly enforcing the existing rule ... Pitchers argue, fairly, that they should have someplace they can deliver a pitch that makes the odds of it being hit 350' diminish ... Artificial turf permanent batters boxes are always going to be there for batters to see where they must stay within ... |
| April 25, 2017 Boom Boom 1 Men's 60 12 posts | In the good old days, before the matt, the plate was considered a ball. A strike was determined by the ball crossing the batters shoulders to knees after it crossed the plate. If the ball hit the plate it was a ball. When incorporating the matt, the plate became a strike. No adjustment was made to the relationship of the batter's box to the new plate (matt). This makes the batter's box 8 1/2 inches too short in front. This creates a nightmare as many batter's stepping out of the box. If the batter's box is adjusted 8 1/2 inches forward it would eliminate most of unjustified the out of batter's box problems. |
| April 25, 2017 DCPete 409 posts | True that plus you're still depending on the Ground Crew to put the box lines in the right place on non-turf fields. Even if the Batters Box is lined up with enough room, all the umps we've ever had have only had 1 set of eyes. If they're looking down at the Box lines & the Batters feet when he hits the ball how are they also going to see if a Runner leaves early, or worse if a hard ground ball down the line is Fair or Foul?? |
| April 25, 2017 HAT MAN Men's 50 229 posts | the way i see it is you learn to adjust. I'm 6'4" 280 and knew from playing in vegas often the box would be an issue so adjusted earlier in the week a home bp. I spoke with a director and it was measured and good. The only issue i do see is the rule picture shows 4 feet from point of plate, in reality you only have 2.5 feet from in front of the plate. So i can see where that is a problem for many. I too learned to have my back foot even with the front of the plate for usssa. Well this isn't usssa and although I learned that way I am responsible to learn to adjust to the SSUSA box. So I did and i ended batting over .800. Here is my only gripe with the out of the box call. Multiple umps had no problem calling it right away but in the 6th and open it wasn't called. when asked an ump said he didn't want that to effect the outcome of the game. Thats the part i have a problem with. You would call strike three for the last out of the game but not a rule you even said you were told to strictly enforce? so here are my suggestions dont call out of the box (the players dont care about it and we are the customers) if you do call it call it all 7 innings every time not occasionally If you are going to strictly enforce this more often in the future take away the plate as a strike and only use cut out mats. |
| April 25, 2017 Jon44 Men's 55 149 posts | I have had this same issue at BLD. I am 6'6" and the short pitch is a challenge to hit and stay in the box. I did have one umpire warn me after my at bat that I was possibly out of the box and that I would need to adjust, which I did going forward. It was nice to get that warning first. With that said, I hate seeing hitters wipe the front chalk lines out with their feet, only to walk up on a pitch and be way out on the front of the box when they smash a ball right back up the middle. The umpire has a responsibility to enforce the rules, and these guys wipe the lines out right in front of the umpire who just sits there and watches them, saying absolutely nothing. It's no wonder why pitchers arm themselves head-to-toe. The equipment (composite bats, etc) are too hot to allow people to do this. In these cases, "sorry pitch" is doesn't cut it. Am I the only one bothered when hitters do this? |
| April 25, 2017 k man Men's 65 326 posts | Jon, ssusa Rule 7.3(1) batter deliberately erasing any portion of batters box will be called out. Second offense player ejected. BUT- umpires judgment call. Would think an umpire would specifically have to be looking for this to make it an issue unless it was very obvious. And yes, umpire has to remain consistent on the calls. ps- I haven't seen this called in quite some time. |
| April 26, 2017 neck10 714 posts | gonedeep you must have had the same ump we had a couple years ago in vegas.he wanted to let everybody kno he was there.he called our team out of the box 6 or 7 time's. but it was my fault the opposing team told me before the game that he had just ejected one of his guy's the game before for disagreeing on a out of the box call.Top Gun Coach ask me after game how I liked him after they beat us 11-10 .I guess I should have listen .we ask the guy to put some lines in so we would not step out he said he knew where the box was.I came to bat put my bat down on ground in front of plate marked a line ,ump said I had to erase it.if a batter wipes the line out he's out inning over that would stop that,just like hitting home run's in lower class in usssa,sends a message wont happen again.teams will police there players. |
| April 26, 2017 neck10 714 posts | also we as manager's can ask the ump anything we wont before game I suggest ask ump how he calls out of box,or anything else you want to kno.better to kno before you start.if you get an ump you dont like you only got him for one game then you can voice your conserns to the director,if both teams go to him works better.but for the most part vegas has great umps,but when you have that many games you bound to run across one you don't agree with.and the game we lost because of stepping out of batter's box was championship of winner's bracket. |
| April 26, 2017 the car 83 posts | we were called out and we had a picture of the at bat showing he was in the box but all in all i have been called for it over 20 times in my 56 years |
| April 26, 2017 Boom Boom 1 Men's 60 12 posts | Once again, you are missing the point, the front of the batter's box is short: In the good old days, before the matt, the plate was considered a ball. A strike was determined by the ball crossing the batters shoulders to knees after it crossed the plate. If the ball hit the plate it was a ball. When incorporating the matt, the plate became a strike. No adjustment was made to the relationship of the batter's box to the new plate (matt). This makes the batter's box 8 1/2 inches too short in front. This creates a nightmare as many batter's stepping out of the box. If the batter's box is adjusted 8 1/2 inches forward it would eliminate most of unjustified the out of batter's box problems. |
| April 27, 2017 B94 Men's 50 138 posts | Boom Boom is bang on! |
| April 27, 2017 the car 83 posts | i stepped out before the mat but i understand you |
| April 28, 2017 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | The permanent batters box is set using reqular softball rules, where the plate is not a strike. Therefore by making the plate a strike the batter now looses that distance between the end of the plate and the front of the plate. So, the batter is at a disadvantage. simple math gentleman. |
| April 28, 2017 B94 Men's 50 138 posts | This is such a simple fix too. Adjust the batters box forward the length of home plate. Very few guys hit from the back of the box so it has minimal effect that way. The other option is to re-write the rule that you must have one foot within the length of the plate at all times. This would never have the batter's back foot further forward than the front edge of the mat regardless of stride length which varies drastically depending on the height of the batter. For the guys who "shuffle" they could start with the front foot at the back of the mat and shuffle to finish with the back foot no further forward than the front of the mat. I think this would also simplify things for the umpire as he can see the positioning of most batters who "plant" in the box at the start of the pitch so the only one that makes it more challenging is the batter who "shuffles" in the box. I think overall this would be much easier to enforce and would keep everyone happier. |
| April 28, 2017 TimMcElroy 942 posts | Rather than "fix" the rule, maybe players could adjust to the ones that have been in place for over a decade? |
| April 29, 2017 bbullet 38 posts | Some great points being made - especially if you take the time to read what was said. Although based on history of this board there always has to be someone trying to be antagonistic. As the posts have suggested - the problem has been exacerbated at complexes like BLD and the newer complex in Reno (with the permanent lines.) Being consistent is the problem - there are a few umpires who want to make this a bigger issue - than most players are concerned about. And some umpires are very easily influenced by some teams making an issue of this before the game starts and during the game - so sometimes you have both sides. Having played all across this country I know geography plays a role, too. I agree it's a simple fix that several of the posts have suggested. |
| April 29, 2017 southerinman Men's 50 52 posts | As many do I walk the box to try to get a pitch "in my zone" so to speak and yes I have had to adjust with the newer height rules. However if your going to allow USSSA height rules (3-6 I believe) and allow the plate to be a strike SSUSA rule. I don't see anyway to hit a ball while its above my knees without my front foot being out of the box. I could agree with either fix though. Either no longer allow the plate as a strike or move the box forward about a foot. While we are mixing pitch rules can I get a SSUSA comment on the pitch motion? Is it a present the ball and constant movement (ASA) or are all the juke and gyrations of USSSA allowed? |
| April 29, 2017 k man Men's 65 326 posts | southerinman- page 34-35 SSUSA rule book -present and constant, no juke/gyrations. But I'm not the SSUSA personnel you want to hear from |
