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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 44 anonymousDiscussion: Players with the same number on a team
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| Aug. 22, 2017 boombah721 5 posts | Players with the same number on a team This past weekend in the Northern Championship we played a team from Canada they had two different players wearing number 11, 17, 23. Is this allowed? We complained about it. The second time we played them they had two different players wearing the number 23. Is this allowed? |
| Aug. 22, 2017 SSUSA Staff 3490 posts | No it's not allowed ... Here are the relevant sections from the Official SSUSA Rulebook ... §3.2 • NUMBERS ON UNIFORMS Team members participating in the game must wear visible numbers, a minimum of 5" (15.24 cm) tall on their uniforms with no two identical numbers on a team. (See §3.8 B) §3.8 • UNIFORM B. Numbers – An Arabic number of contrasting colors at least 5" (15.24 cm) high must be worn on uniforms. No players on the same team may wear identical numbers. (Numbers 3 and 03 are examples of identical numbers.) Players without numbers will not be permitted to play. If duplicate numbers exist, only one of the players may play at a time. There is no penalty for a player wearing a wrong number. Correct the number in the score book and continue play. NOTE: There is no penalty for duplicate numbers. Request one player to change jerseys, or require a substitute to enter for one of the players. |
| Aug. 22, 2017 STL0 Men's 60 231 posts | Boombah: Do you believe that it impacted the game? I totally get that it's a rule but if that's the only jerseys they have at the time, wouldn't you rather play? |
| Aug. 22, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4315 posts | STL0 is spot on ... Notwithstanding what the letter of the rule is, the fundamental guiding concept is whether or not game officials can tell the players apart ... If not, adding a strip of tape to make "23" into "123" works every time ... Play on ... |
| Aug. 22, 2017 B.J. 1106 posts | Dave, great answer.... I've had this happen many times when umpiring and the strip of tape fixes it easily |
| Aug. 22, 2017 boombah721 5 posts | My concern is the team was informed about the rule the first time we played them. Yet they continued to disregard the rule again the second time we played them. Perhaps the rule needst [ be stronger verbally so there is no misunderstanding. You would think adults could find better things to do than to trick other teams by taking advantage of the obscure wording of the rule. |
| Aug. 22, 2017 boombah721 5 posts | By having no real consequences for breaking the rule, the rule will continue to be broken by teams. How hard is it really for a team manager to make sure everyone has a different number? |
| Aug. 22, 2017 chico senior Men's 60 134 posts | Boombah - I'm curious as to why you think this team was "trying to trick you and take advantage of the obscure wording of the rule". Who cares whether or not two guys are wearing the same number. Were they trying to gain an advantage? If not, let it go. Umpires and tournament directors should have the power to make a judgement concerning this. Just my two cents worth. |
| Aug. 22, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4315 posts | boombah721 ... This rule set is about administrative compliance for ease of scoring, etc., and less confusion for apparently easily confused individuals ... It's not a rule with punitive remedies ... That being said, I have seen, as a Director, all sorts of planning to spring it on a batter as he comes to the plate in hopes of getting a cheap out and/or ejection ... And my response is always the same: "..If you knew who you were going after, you obviously weren't deceived in the slightest by the duplicate numbers ... Let's get a piece of tape on this guy's shirt and Play Ball.." ... That's what the umpire should have done ... It's difficult in this one to ignore the possibility of a certain level of gamesmanship being present ... Otherwise, there's way too much "picking at nits" here ... |
| Aug. 22, 2017 bond_171513 Men's 55 79 posts | We played in San Clemente this past weekend and there were a few players who were wearing generic shirts in lieu of a uniform with a number. I don't recall anyone saying a word, we certainly did not. However, we keep book for both teams and also keep up with who the CR is, so numbers do help with both of those circumstances. In the larger TOC events, we would simply ask for the tape thing or similar so we can keep up. We would not make it something for a cheap out or ejection. |
| Aug. 22, 2017 boombah721 5 posts | We didn't want anyone ejected just to abide by the rule no two identical numbers on a team. This team ignored this rule twice against us in a span of 2 and half hours. Tape should have been added for sure and numbers changed. Rest assured when we play this team in the future things will be different. Also asking team to follow and respect the rules is not picking at nits! |
| Aug. 22, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4315 posts | OK, I guess it's maybe a good thing to have "The Great Uniform Crisis" every decade or so ... At the 2006 SSUSA World Championships in Seattle, a local area team, comprised principally of attorneys, and known as There Goes The Neighborhood showed up and brought scorekeeper-chaos with them ... They had nice new uniforms, with the following numbers: I, II, III, IV, VII, IX, XII XIV, XVII, XX and XXIV, etc. ... Yep, you got it: Roman Numerals! ... Never saw anything so hilarious on uniforms, and they argued, successfully as ball players AND attorneys, that they were "rules compliant" (and they were right!) ... So we changed the rules that year to prevent a repeat ... This one isn't quite as funny, and likely won't make it on this year's National Rules Committee Sessions agenda ... For future reference: All of our Director Box Kits we send to events have duct tape in them ... Ask to borrow some strips if it remains that serious to you ... This should be a pretty simple fix if it comes up again! ... Priceless, to quote MasterCard! ... |
| Aug. 22, 2017 chico senior Men's 60 134 posts | Boombah - Again, what's the big deal. Did the other team attempt to gain an advantage? If not, quit whining and just play the game. Who cares? In fact, I just finished playing our last league game and I decided not to put any numbers on our jerseys. After a few games everybody thought it was a great idea. |
| Aug. 23, 2017 stever Men's 70 99 posts | I agree that numbering helps in the CR situation. But I also doubt if they were trying to gain an advantage and think making a big deal about it is contrary to sportsmanship. What about in cold weather when people wear jackets over their jerseys? Can't see the numbers then. Yes, it is not according to the rules but, as Dave said, this rule is an administrative rule not a competition rule. Why can't you just try to beat them on the field instead of playing "gotcha"? |
| Aug. 23, 2017 neck10 714 posts | we played the same team must have helped them they beat us my score keeper ask what to do I said #23 grey hair & #23 peppered hair lol |
| Aug. 23, 2017 neck10 714 posts | I was talking to Charlie Mitchel in lansing he told me a story about number's.I guess many years ago Charlie & Butch Drake were both wearing #17 & the other team started complaining Charlie (who is 6'3' &black)said you really cant tell Butch(who is maybe 5'9" & 160 & red haired white boy)& me apart.We laughed a while on that one. just play the game we aren't getting any younger |
| Aug. 23, 2017 B94 Men's 50 138 posts | As long as players weren't trying to switch spots in the batting order with the other player wearing the same number it really shouldn't be a "critical" part of the game. Again as others have said a simple piece of tape fixes the situation if it bother's you that much. Personally I'm happy I woke up on the "right" side of the grass and get to play the game I love... |
| Aug. 23, 2017 paul0784 Men's 60 218 posts | i don't see a problem with 05 and 5 as being different? |
| Aug. 23, 2017 HAT MAN Men's 50 229 posts | Im with the majority that it wouldnt bother me either. But for boombah's sake the question of who cares has been answered by the op. He cares. Why, maybe he will let us know or maybe he would of if he wasnt bashed about it. Maybe he's a cut and dry type of guy and feels why have a rule if the rule doesnt get enforced? Maybe his team in the past was called out for it and it was enforced. Maybe he follows all rules and reads all rules and had to buy more jerseys to stay compliant. or maybe just maybe he is a mathematical genius and has developed an algorithm that takes a players bat speed coupled with his jersey number and is able to pin point exactly where to position the defense for the highest probability of making an out. What say you BOOMBAH we need to know!!!! |
| Aug. 23, 2017 Benji4 Men's 55 289 posts | Vinny I wouldn't hold your breath on waiting for Boombah to respond as to why he cares. I'm sure most like me have figured it out. He just wanted to Bitch and Complain.............. Oh anonymously of course.... |
| Aug. 23, 2017 DCPete 409 posts | One year our Sunday morning touch football team all wore the same jersey number (2) & our team was called The Clones. The referees actually got a kick out of it cause they could just throw a flag & say "Penalty on #2". No one got upset or complained . . . |
| Aug. 24, 2017 boombah721 5 posts | Yeah Beji4 you're such a mind reader, yes we do chart where players hit Hit Man. Just strange when in the 5th Inning of The Northern Championship game, number 23 is standing of 3rd base and of course number 23 steps to the plate. Our 3rd baseman simply wondered what was going on being we played this team two hours earlier with the same problem. Don't care about numbers in rec leagues or if the weather's cold I understand all that. Good to know a lot of people on here are sarcastic argumentative guys who think they can pick and choose which rule they could care less about. Have your fun bashing it acting like "Your Interpretation" that is "who cares?" is correct. It's NOT! |
| Aug. 24, 2017 Benji4 Men's 55 289 posts | Not a mind reader at all. More like a realist. Unless the players were twins, I still don't think what number a guy wears is that important. Guess I have lived too many years realizing: Don't try to make chicken soup out of chicken shit... Good luck to you sir.... |
| Aug. 25, 2017 stick8 1991 posts | Boombah721, if you had the authority to imposea penalty for two players wearing the same number during a sanctioned SSUSA tournament what would that penalty be? |
| Aug. 25, 2017 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE!!!!!! Lmao. |
| Aug. 25, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4315 posts | stick8 ... I had that same question right on my fingertips as you posted! ... I'm all about playing the game and having fun doing so, with no thought of scrambling around for the reason(s) to prevent someone else doing the same ... This is "senior" ball ... Every team has "that guy" who brings the wrong color uniform to the park, or maybe forgets it all together! ... By boom's account, there were a couple of hours where someone could have been a creative thinker and scrounged up a 6" strip of tape! ... So boom, what did you do to solve your "problem", one that seems to have very, very little significance as a rulebook provision with no penalty attached? ... As a member of the SSUSA National Rules Committee, I have a professional curiosity in trying to understand your thinking ... |
| Aug. 26, 2017 biggflyy1953 Men's 60 43 posts | There were 3 players who had the same set of numbers, i.e. (7,7) (21,21) and (28,28)during the same game on Friday. The teams manager was made aware of this by the opposing team manger and umpire. Game continued with no changes. 2 days later, on Sunday, the same team again had same numbering problem. Again the umpire was notified with no changes were made and game continued. If this particular rule is so inconsequential, then get of the rule. |
| Aug. 27, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4315 posts | OK, let's get away from this anonymous theory-thread and take a peek behind Oz's curtain ... Which two specific teams were involved in this "issue"? ... We'll pull the game cards and see how the teams and/or umpire(s) handled it ... Thanks ... |
| Aug. 29, 2017 biggflyy1953 Men's 60 43 posts | The 2 teams involved: TMS (55AAA) and Windsor Chiefs (55AAA) Lake Alliance Park |
| Aug. 29, 2017 SSUSA Staff 3490 posts | We have pulled and reviewed the game cards for the two games played between the teams, and here's what we found on those cards: SATURDAY @ 11:00 AM on #4 (Seeding game #3) • TMS (20) - Windsor (19) TMS - TWO duplicate jersey numbers (75) on Game Card - Starters were listed as: 22, 41, 5, 75, 8, 75, 18, 55, 4, 19 and 64 - Subs listed as: 7, 11, 99, 24 and 25. WINDSOR - ONE (insignificant?) duplicate number on Game Card - Two Subs listed as 09 and 9 ... Also, there were (unknown as to "when" and by "whom") scratch-outs on the Windsor game card lineup for Saturday. Mark wore #17 on Sunday's game card, but some (other?) number was listed for Saturday before being scratched out and #19 written over it. That resulted in TWO duplicate jersey numbers (19) on the Game Card ... Rick P wore #14 on Sunday's game card, but some (other?) number was listed for Saturday before being scratched out and A SECOND #19 written over it. SUNDAY @ 12:30 PM on #4 (Championship) • TMS (10) - Windsor (9) TMS - NO duplicate jersey numbers on Game Card - Starters were listed as: 22, 8, 5, 33, 75, 41, 4, 25, 24 and 3 - Subs listed as: 55, 99, 64, 11 and 77 WINDSOR - TWO duplicate jersey numbers (14) on Game Card - Starters were listed as: 33, 14 (Dave), 97, 17, 20, 18, 6, 35, 23, 26 and 11 - Subs listed as: 14 (Rick P), 66, 18, 1, 9 and 09 (Same 9's issue as on Saturday) ... SUMMARY • We have no way of knowing if the numbers written on the game cards are an exact match for jersey numbers actually worn by the players in either game ... However, we are clear that BOTH teams could and should have exercised more care and precision when filling out those game cards ... There were game card duplicate number mistakes made by both teams on Saturday and by Windsor on Sunday ... Were they the type of mistakes that could have yielded a result other than the two one-run losses by Windsor? ... Who knows? ... |
| Aug. 30, 2017 STL0 Men's 60 231 posts | Do I hear crickets? |
| Aug. 30, 2017 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | here's what can happen using dup #'s.......person can run twice in an inning (not for himself)....batting order can be changed(same number..diff person)to help the team.....there all kinds of things that can happen with dup #'s.......just saying..... |
| Aug. 30, 2017 DaveDowell Men's 70 4315 posts | mad dog ... We concur, which is why the duplicate number rules are in the book ... In this instance, we asked for the team names and pulled the game cards for review to see if the "allegations" matched the "facts" ... Judge for yourselves on that question ... |
| Aug. 30, 2017 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | personally i don't care about the prol that was had....i'm saying what could go wrong and that should be the reason for not allowing dup #'s........they actually had a little league team do something like that here in texas some yrs back....had 5 or 6 kids only hit by changing jersey's....really not sure how they got away with .....but they did for almost the whole game.......prevention is always better than having to do it later........ |
| Sept. 3, 2017 stick8 1991 posts | In all the years Ive umpired and played I never paid much attention to who wore what number other than to notice various fonts used for numbers. While still prevalent the old varsity block style isn't the norm anymore. Lots of different and interesting styles teams choose for their numbers as well as their logos. The only time a number ever stuck out was from a few years ago when a big fella wore 911. He said "when I'm up the other team better call 911" 😁 |
